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Old    P K (DocPhilMD)      Join Date: Aug 2013       08-17-2013, 10:19 PM Reply   
Okay so here is a follow up to my demo day. I looked at the 2014 MC X-10, 2013 MB sports 23 WB, 2013 Tige RZ2, 2014 SAN 210. I surfed and drove all of them hard (except the Tige-I will get to that). Now keep in mind that the surf wake was not set up on a couple boats as what many would consider ideal. So all I can review is what I looked at

The styling of this boat is very good. The exterior is simple and clean but interesting. The tower is very nice. The interior is very functional and you get a lot of space for this size boat. Very nice but not over the top like the MC

Fit and Finish: B+

The surf wake was interesting on this one. With the NSS and the new hull, the wake was very tall but short. The interesting thing here was it seemed very touchy. Any little movement in the water totally eradicated the cleanliness of the wake. I am not sure if this was because of the NSS or not. I felt like it was a good wave under optimal conditions but could easily be disrupted. There was a G25 that was running nearby and the wake didn't "look" that good either. hmmmmm

Surf Wake: B

The performance and handling of this boat was very good. It was second only to the MB. The driver did a nice power slide that flung another passenger off his seat. Fun and funny! It had good acceleration and handed well. Although it did seem "rattly" going over rollers. It was also tippy at times. One other thing was the amount of exhaust this boat spit out. It was ridiculous. It actually was so much that it interfered with surfing. I saw the new pipe that FAE put on the G series. it is just a bent piece of welded stainless. It probably cost 50 bucks. Why not put it on these. I WOULD NOT BUY this boat unless I ordered a FAE or had my buddy Chad weld one for me. The exhaust was terrible

Performance/handling: B -

I thought this boat was pretty fairly priced considering all the options. It was about 85K as it sat which was the same price as the Tige. the 230 runs about 95K according the to dealer. I would like to see the surf wake on that boat given its slightly longer.

Price: B

The dealer was great. Silvery spray sports in Fenton only deals in Nautique and has been there for 33 years. The owners are terrific. Strongly recommended and I have no hesitations about using them.

Dealer: A

Overall, this is a very nice boat. It is styled well with a nice interior. The motor was good and responded well but there were some concerns about it being rattly and tippy at times. The exhaust was terrible and omitting the FAE from this boat was a mistake. The surf wake seemed nice but I have concerns about its resilience and consistency. The dealer was awesome

Overall: B
Old    Mason Obray (MCObray)      Join Date: Mar 2013       08-17-2013, 11:18 PM Reply   
How was the 210 weighted? Was there any additional sacs, outside of the factory 1750# of ballast that the 210 produces? I know it's a completely different hull, as well as boat, but I rode behind a G23 with NSS and only the factory ballast (2850#) and it was one of the better waves I have ridden. The wave was not finicky at all; furthermore it was very consistent with good amount of push. We are talking about a completely different boat though, but I was thoroughly impressed with the NSS system. Aside from an awesome wave, you wait 4 seconds and the wave will equally transfer over to the opposite side you were riding. I do agree, FAE is absolutely necessary for an NSS equipped boat.
Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       08-18-2013, 5:16 AM Reply   
Hey guys just to clarify some things on the ballast. The stock ballast on the 210 is not the 1750 unless the boat was optioned with the pro ballast system. As far as exhaust on this, I'm not trying to start a war or stick up for Nautique becuase I am a Nautique guy, but I have already sold a 14 210 with pro ballast and have spent about 6 hours pulling surfers behind it. Never ONCE did it produce vapor (if there was smoke, it's water vapor) that affected any surfers behind the boat. I literally have 15 pictures and not one shows water vapor. Here are a couple and as you can see in the pictures there is not a spec of exhaust, water vapor, or anything else affecting the surfer. There is also no FAE on this boat. Whatever you experienced, was not normal for this boat.
Attached Images
  
Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       08-18-2013, 5:17 AM Reply   
For any of you safety people out there, the girls were quickly asked to stop sitting on the hatch like that
Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       08-18-2013, 5:26 AM Reply   
Sorry for the repeated responses, but I think these pictures prove that FAE is not absolutely necessary for an NSS equipped boat unless you are in a G series. This isn't to "combat" anyone. It's truly just a matter of making statements like that to social media masses when it is in fact inaccurate. I'm just providing the proof in the pictures. In no way does this mean this is the best surf boat. It just means the exhaust issue you are referring to, is truly not an issue at all because there is none.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       08-18-2013, 6:58 AM Reply   
I understand what your saying completely. However you may get some negative responses from the KNOW-IT -ALLS. I too noticed the exhaust on the G23 when I surfed behind one,but it wasn't unbearable. It was just noticable. I haven't ridden behind a 2013 or 2014 210 so I can't comment on them.
Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       08-18-2013, 7:58 AM Reply   
Hey Robert, you're actually right on point. The G's are much bigger boats with bigger engines and about a 1,000lbs of extra ballast. They do put out some water vapor (especially the 550hp) and can at times get in the riders face so I completely agree when referring to the G series. The turn down tip for 2014 eliminates that problem with the G's though. The 210 is not the same case at all as I have yet to see what the OP is talking about and I've spent quite a few hours in one already. Literally have not seen steam, smoke, or anything like that at the back of a 2014 210 with NSS. .
Old     (iamcdn)      Join Date: Sep 2010       08-18-2013, 7:59 AM Reply   
Nice review Phil, that must have been quite a day of demos. I have the 2013 210 and wouldn't surf without the FAE. I put one on after our first outing as the port side had a ton of exhaust. It was much better on the starboard side. We have not had any issues with weight sensitivity and the wave, we can have people moving all over without any issues. If the wave was short and steep you probably needed more weight in the bow or a little more speed.

Good luck with the search.
Old    P K (DocPhilMD)      Join Date: Aug 2013       08-18-2013, 8:14 AM Reply   
Thanks for the replies. This was a brand new 2014 and the exhaust (water vapor) was absolutely horrible. So two people on here have experienced a 14. One without vapor and one with.

This boat was heavily weighted with max stock ballast and 7 adult passengers. Perhaps that increased the vapor. I can only tell you my experience. I have no idea about any other Nautiques just he one I rode. I wouldn't surf it again without FAE
Old    Dennis Costa (dejoeco)      Join Date: Apr 2003       08-21-2013, 12:12 PM Reply   
If you want a surf boat then you should concentrate on trying surf boats. There is a big difference riding behind a boat the you can surf behind and one that is a surf machine. The 210 and the x-10 are clearly not in the surf machine category. The MB and Tige are for sure provided they are weighted properly. I owned a Tige for 10 years and really liked that boat. It was not in the category with the RZ2, but it was surf-able. Most manufacturers have stepped up their game in fit and finish and provide a decent level. I am most concerned with the wave the boat puts out first and foremost.

There are reasons for purchasing a boat such as dealers and relationships and I perfectly understand that. For my money, Centurion is still leading the pack with its surf wake. My 233 puts out a pro level surf wake with NO ballast showing period. This applies even if there are just two of us in the boat. It is best with 5 people. I will say that I have added 500 of lead weight hidden in the boat.
A new boat is always a great thing, no matter who makes it.
Old    Gary Anderson (F725)      Join Date: May 2010       08-21-2013, 1:40 PM Reply   
"The 210 and the x-10 are clearly not in the surf machine category."

Really? I can't speak for the x-10 but the 210 will throw an awesome wave... also with all ballast hidden. NSS is the key.

For the first few months I'd notice some vapor from the exhaust..., I'm very sensative to the exhaust fumes and this had no effect on me. Just the other day I was out and it started getting to me. This was the first and last time it's happened but... If I don't upgrade to a newer 210 I will be adding the FAE.
Old    J. Bob (joebob)      Join Date: Jan 2011       08-21-2013, 2:48 PM Reply   
I have to agree with F725, I have a 2012 with NSS and about 55 hours on the ticker. I have extra bags plumbed in to the back and lead in the center which can be moved around. This boat puts out a great surf wave, it is long and tall, very stable and not inconsistent. The 2012 hull is pretty much the same with very few changes made from what all the press has said. I do get some smell from the cat's on occasion but nothing that would convince me from riding behind it. I can tell you everybody has had different boats in their arsenal to compare to so reviews will always be different. I think all in all my boat is very solid no rattles and put together like a rock. I think my 12 is many years of progression of a great boat.
Old    Davis (kimper)      Join Date: May 2008       08-21-2013, 4:04 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by F725 View Post
"The 210 and the x-10 are clearly not in the surf machine category."
This was true in the past.. Not true now...
Old    rzap (zap)      Join Date: Jan 2009       08-21-2013, 6:11 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimper View Post
This was true in the past.. Not true now...

I am sure they are much better than their old designs but they still have 98" beams so they are still true to their wakeboard heritage. I am sure Nautique would not mess with the WB wake on the 210 to appease the surf market.
Old    Dennis Costa (dejoeco)      Join Date: Apr 2003       08-22-2013, 7:46 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by zap View Post
I am sure they are much better than their old designs but they still have 98" beams so they are still true to their wakeboard heritage. I am sure Nautique would not mess with the WB wake on the 210 to appease the surf market.
There is a reason that most if not all the manufacturers are making surf specific boats 23-24feet long long with 102 beam. People who think they have a decent surf wake and then ride behind my boat are amazed at how much better it is. This includes a recent ride by someone with a 2013 SAN 210 and all he does is surf.

If you said that wakeboarding was 40-50 of what you do then many other boats come into play. The 210 is a great boat, but it will not surf like mine.
Old    Rob Foster (surfdoggy)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-22-2013, 8:20 AM Reply   
I have got a surf boat that surfs way better than the Centurion 233 Dennis has. Numerous people who have owned a 233 and then come and surfed behind my boat immediately went home and sold their 233's. In fact, some of them just gave their 233's away or scuttled them because their wake was so clearly inferior.

Seriously, people! If you think you have a great surf wake, post up some riding pictures and videos - I think most of us who surf love to see great surf wakes from all kinds of boats. But if you feel that you need to brag about how your wake is the best, or how other boats are just inferior, either you are way too insecure about your own wake, or you don't understand that if you are a decent wake surfer, most inboards with the right weight set up can put out a wake that you could have a blast riding.
Old     (cheesesteak)      Join Date: Aug 2013       08-22-2013, 10:09 AM Reply   
^^^^^^^^What he said^^^^^^^^^


Here's my son having a blast on a wave behind a boat (Sanger V230). Sanger? What's that? Maybe I'm crazy, or just happy with my boat - but I really don't see a whole heck of a lot of difference between wakes on some of these boats.
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Last edited by cheesesteak; 08-22-2013 at 10:15 AM.
Old    Rob Fullerton (Gotmods)      Join Date: Nov 2012       08-22-2013, 10:28 AM Reply   
I surfed a v215 a couple weeks ago and was totally impressed. The owner was stoked on my opinion since I compared it to my heavily weighted X25.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       08-22-2013, 1:41 PM Reply   
Surf wave dong measuring never ceases to amaze me.
Old    Rob Foster (surfdoggy)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-22-2013, 1:43 PM Reply   
I love the clean blue water and the nice looking wake in that Sanger shot. We don't get that on our lake.
Old    P K (DocPhilMD)      Join Date: Aug 2013       08-26-2013, 7:30 AM Reply   
Actually the X-10 was very comparable to the RZ2 surf wake wise. So you are not correct

Have you actually ridden behind an X-10? Because I have
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-26-2013, 8:08 AM Reply   
Here is a video of the Z3, this is RJ doing his MyWake run. This is a great video to show the wake because it shows from many angles. You can see a shot from the tower, transom, and then from the side/chase, and since he rides both sides you can see the wake is the same on goofy and regular. The only difference in goofy and regular is that you can't put as much weight on the opposite side, where regular you can. About the same list.

95% of this was filmed on 8/22, so just a few days ago. Z3 with Convex VX and our custom wake9 sacks all hidden, all water. No lead. Inside the boat is myself and a friend RJs size, and 3 kids (Thomas, Jessie and Maddie). I don't even need to sit in the ballast boy seat, for much of this video I was driving and Maddie was filming.

The RZ2 makes a great surf wake, I think the Z3 is a bit better. More adjustable.

Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       08-26-2013, 1:40 PM Reply   
is this not a 210 thread?
Old    Gary Anderson (F725)      Join Date: May 2010       08-26-2013, 2:55 PM Reply   
It was... so here is a shot of the wave behind our 210. Blurry, it was shot just before dark last Friday night.
Attached Images
 
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       08-27-2013, 6:36 AM Reply   
here are a couple pics from my vacation last week, the water is awesome, our wake is OK, oh it's a MB 23
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Old    Brad Noneedtoknow (bspot5)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-27-2013, 9:47 AM Reply   
Is this still a 210 thread?
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       08-27-2013, 9:51 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bspot5 View Post
Is this still a 210 thread?
no its a post whatever boat you like thread.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-27-2013, 1:12 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by F725 View Post
It was... so here is a shot of the wave behind our 210. Blurry, it was shot just before dark last Friday night.
that looks like osama bin surfin
Old    Gary Anderson (F725)      Join Date: May 2010       08-27-2013, 1:34 PM Reply   
Oh great. Now I'll be profiled.
Old    Markj (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       08-30-2013, 9:23 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
that looks like osama bin surfin
lol!

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