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Old    Morgan (dilpickle)      Join Date: Aug 2013       08-22-2013, 1:10 PM Reply   
All,
I am looking for some outside input on a new boat. We are looking at moving into a V-drive that will allow us to continue to move up in skill level & enjoyment time on the boat. We currently wakeboard, tube & very occasionally ski. We will be starting to wakesurf in the next year.

We currently have a 2009 Yamaha 212X that we bought brand new & are looking for a boat that will not compromise in any of the areas that are important to us.

Must haves:
-Bow large enough for 4 full sized adults
-Bow boarding ladder
-Usable lounge at the rear of the boat
-Built in ballast(no need for bags on deck/seats
-20-24ft range(ideally would like to stay @ 22' so it fits in my garage.
-Comfortable driver's seat
-Tower w/ swivel racks
-Speed Control (Perfect Pass, etc.)

Would like to have:
-ability to surf with boat level
-large amount of hidden storage

We don't have any dealers local anymore that carry dedicated wake boats, so on the last trip to Denver we looked at a couple & found the boat we will probably be buying.

Looked at MC X25 & X35- While the boat has lots of bling & CNC aluminum goodness, we found the "storage" under the bow seats laughable at best, rear seating looks like a good idea but is very uncomfortable & last but not least, the driver's seat of this $110K boat appears to be of MUCH lower quality than our current $40K ride. The function of the tower is neat & one hand lowering is neat, but the word that comes to mind to describe it is "gaudy"

Axis A20/22 boats-Good value with less bling (not really important to us, looking for a boat to use, not admire on the trailer) tower folds but is more compliucated (2 people at least) The driver's seat is so much nicer than ours or the MC's. The sun pad/engine cover is too big, has no rear seats for putting gear on, fishing, relaxing, etc. We also don't care for the non-walkthrough to the bow. Close, but not quite there.

Malibu MXZ20-22:This boats looks to have all the features we are looking for-very nice, comfy driver's seat (momma's very happy) large bow with boarding ladder, very comfortable seats on the rear with under seat storage, good seating all around (moreso in the 22') & I really like the forward swept tower (gets rid of blind spot when coming to pick up rider) Surf Gate also looks interesting. Price is higher than I would like, but getting rid of superfluous options ($4000 stereo) should bring that down.

So, my question to you all, is there another boat I should be considering or making a drive to look at given my requirements? I had looked online at Moomba Mojo, Tige RZ series, the Tomcats. The nautiques look interesting, but the price is much higher than the Malibu & the engineer in me thinks that the NSS setup is an accident waiting to happen due to how the forces are applied to it.

Thanks
Old    Mark (FunkyBunch)      Join Date: Jun 2011       08-22-2013, 1:26 PM Reply   
As far as boats go and some of the things your looking for you should check out the Nautiques.

However before I did that I would suggest spending a weekend or multiple weekends on a wakeboard boat with some friends and make sure its what your looking for. To me some of your must haves suggest you might not like having a wakeboard boat. It's not that you can not find the features in a boat but in a wakeboard boat they are going to be expensive if your just a recreational user.
Old    Don Christman (ktm525)      Join Date: Mar 2009       08-22-2013, 1:32 PM Reply   
Ok look at the MB 23wb. It has everything you listed except the bow ladder. We have a 2103 and love it. We came from a Sea Ray 220 select to this and will never look back. We love our boat. There is storage under all seats and even rear lockers. The ballast is below the floor. Here is a link to ours for lots of pictures.

http://dcphotomania.smugmug.com/Watersports/MB-Boat

Last edited by ktm525; 08-22-2013 at 1:34 PM.
Old    Morgan (dilpickle)      Join Date: Aug 2013       08-22-2013, 1:41 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkyBunch View Post
As far as boats go and some of the things your looking for you should check out the Nautiques.

However before I did that I would suggest spending a weekend or multiple weekends on a wakeboard boat with some friends and make sure its what your looking for. To me some of your must haves suggest you might not like having a wakeboard boat. It's not that you can not find the features in a boat but in a wakeboard boat they are going to be expensive if your just a recreational user.
Mark, I'm fully aware of the change to a wake boat & what that entails-I am just trying to make sure that I don't end up with any buyer's remorse since i plan on keeping the boat for at least 10 years, probably longer. I don't mind paying the price, but I am an efficiency/value guy-I want the most bang for the buck, even if it is a lot of bucks.

We will be doing a thorough demo & momma has final say before we commit to anything-she is the designated driver & pulls everyone-it's really her boat, we just get to ride behind it ;-)
Old    Morgan (dilpickle)      Join Date: Aug 2013       08-22-2013, 1:42 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktm525 View Post
Ok look at the MB 23wb. It has everything you listed except the bow ladder. We have a 2103 and love it. We came from a Sea Ray 220 select to this and will never look back. We love our boat. There is storage under all seats and even rear lockers. The ballast is below the floor. Here is a link to ours for lots of pictures.

http://dcphotomania.smugmug.com/Watersports/MB-Boat
Don,
That is a very nice boat, however the bow ladder is one of only a few deal breakers- we still have my mom & my in-laws out on the boat regularly-we typically pick them up from the beach, not a dock & their average age is 72. We've found that it keeps the boat much cleaner too if the kids don't have to come through the water or climb over the bow to get on if we happen to stop & play at a sandy beach.

Thanks for sharing.

Last edited by dilpickle; 08-22-2013 at 1:46 PM.
Old    Boarder 42 (jhartt3)      Join Date: Jan 2012       08-22-2013, 1:45 PM Reply   
look at MB boats the F21 or the b52 23wb IMO best bang for you buck hands down ...

disclaimer i dont own an MB i own an old DD and dream of owning an MB one day
Old    Mark (FunkyBunch)      Join Date: Jun 2011       08-22-2013, 2:01 PM Reply   
I understand having the wife buy off on the boat mine nixed a new Axis earlier this year.

The things that give me pause in your requests are
1. -Bow large enough for 4 full sized adults
There are boats that fit this need they are normally the really big boats. The X45 and G23 come to mind here. I would not include the malibu boats or the mb's here since they employ the cab forward design that give more room to the lounge area. Just to note I am picturing 4 adults that are normal people that I might have on my boat so most guys are 6' 200lbs, girls at least 5'5" 145. IMO that is a not a lot of room and a good amount of nose weight in these boats.
2.-Bow boarding ladder This is a cool feature but really only a MC and Malibu have it. I think more are starting to have integrated swim step ladders at the rear.
3.-Built in ballast(no need for bags on deck/seats. This all depends on how you intend to use the boat. Most boats for good surf wake require some sort of additional ballast most of the time taking up at least the rear compartments.

You might have to compromise on some of these to really get the best boat for you.
I would check out the Nautiques and Z3 Tige. The idea that Nautique is using for NSS is not a new to boats just a new implementation of it so it should be pretty solid.
Old    Danny D (axxxiswake)      Join Date: Jun 2013       08-22-2013, 2:07 PM Reply   
You're going to struggle to achieve ALL of your requirements. Honestly I think the Malibu mxz22 is going to be your best option. What dealers are close to you?
Old    Morgan (dilpickle)      Join Date: Aug 2013       08-22-2013, 2:17 PM Reply   
Right now I am pretty sold on the 22MXZ- this fills the list of requirements above & the interior space is almost the same as my current boat-there is slightly more floor space, but a little less freeboard. Right now the kids are 11 & 13 & keep getting bigger every year, usually them & friends up front, occasionally me or momma with one of them.

One of the things i really like about this boat in particular is how the boat is laid out instead of the traditional itty bitty bow, huge area behind the windshield & then the large sunpad/engine cover.

We will see on the demo, but from what I have seen between the hard tanks, wedge & surf gate I believe this will fit most of my needs & if not, there is always P&P, then as a last resort, more sacs on the seats/floor if we get to the point that it is holding us back.
Old    Morgan (dilpickle)      Join Date: Aug 2013       08-22-2013, 2:22 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by axxxiswake View Post
You're going to struggle to achieve ALL of your requirements. Honestly I think the Malibu mxz22 is going to be your best option. What dealers are close to you?
Tommy's in Denver, Taylor's in SLC or Sundance in Grand Junction. We spent a few hours crawling all over the Axis & Malibus @ Tommy's.

Like I said, we're pretty sold on the MXZ pending a demo. We won't be buying until next year, just doing my due diligence now while I have time.

Last edited by dilpickle; 08-22-2013 at 2:28 PM.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       08-22-2013, 2:31 PM Reply   
Who knows what will be out next year? But the Malibu MXZ is a solid boat.You won't go wrong there.You may want to check out the Tiges They don't fit all your requirements but they are very solid well handling boats. Actually they are the best selling wake boats in the Denver area.
Old    Brian (Ewok01)      Join Date: Apr 2013       08-22-2013, 5:06 PM Reply   
The MXZ would meet most of your requirements but with a ski boat you need to be careful about beaching the boat, most people don't do it. The majority of bent tracking fins come from beaching and then a wave moves the boat and bends the fins that are dug into the sand. Most people that get in close to beaches to pick people up use a shore anchor spike and some sort of anchor buddy to keep the boat off the sand and the stern pointed at the beach and people board the boat from knee to waist deep water.

I agree as well that you need to spend some time on an inboard on the water to understand the plus and minus with one of these boats. The cockpit seating options might change your requirement for a huge bow and boarding ladder for an example.
Old    Ron (Nordicron)      Join Date: Aug 2011       08-22-2013, 5:41 PM Reply   
Dill of all the boats you looked at I would think the X-25 would be the boat for you. It will fit in your garage it is huge inside cockpit area and the bow is pretty decent as well. It has your ladder also. Although I dont recommend beaching either. With your jet you prob didnt worry much about shallow water but believe me it will be a worry with a real wake boat! Also the X has the walkthrough transom and transom seats. And contrary to what you say it does have some storage up front and an amazing amount of storage in the rear, it will probably hold twice the amount of gear that your current boat will. That MXz has ZERO bow storage so I don't understand why you like it and not the x25? Also the MC tower is so much nicer than the MXz. Forward towers suck if you have good tower speakers and want to project sound to the rider. Everyone in a boat goes deaf with forward towers. Also coming from a 212x any of the boats you listed will be amazing wakes to what your used to!!!! Lets be honest your coming from a giant toy boat. These boats are purpose built sport boats. Even the Axis is built better than your 212x and will blow its doors off with its wake, whether that be a surf wake of wakeboard wake. Don't mean to hurt your feelings just telling you like it is.
Old    Morgan (dilpickle)      Join Date: Aug 2013       08-22-2013, 7:49 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordicron View Post
Dill of all the boats you looked at I would think the X-25 would be the boat for you. It will fit in your garage it is huge inside cockpit area and the bow is pretty decent as well. It has your ladder also. Although I dont recommend beaching either. With your jet you prob didnt worry much about shallow water but believe me it will be a worry with a real wake boat! Also the X has the walkthrough transom and transom seats. And contrary to what you say it does have some storage up front and an amazing amount of storage in the rear, it will probably hold twice the amount of gear that your current boat will. That MXz has ZERO bow storage so I don't understand why you like it and not the x25? Also the MC tower is so much nicer than the MXz. Forward towers suck if you have good tower speakers and want to project sound to the rider. Everyone in a boat goes deaf with forward towers. Also coming from a 212x any of the boats you listed will be amazing wakes to what your used to!!!! Lets be honest your coming from a giant toy boat. These boats are purpose built sport boats. Even the Axis is built better than your 212x and will blow its doors off with its wake, whether that be a surf wake of wakeboard wake. Don't mean to hurt your feelings just telling you like it is.
And this is one of the reasons we walked away from the Mastercraft dealer shaking our heads-this attitude that because I have a Yamaha jet boat, I don't know anything about "REAL" boats. The bow seats on the MC were very nice looking and had this really cool hinge that opened up to reveal a space large enough for 1 life jacket, seriously we laughed very heartily about that one.

The MXZ loses front storage when equipped with the optional hard tank-this is optional, we may or may not end up with it.

I have absolutely no use for a stereo on a boat, so I don't have to worry about the speakers that won't be there hitting guests in the head or causing anyone to go deaf so I can jam at the end of the line.

On my current "toy boat" i have stored out of sight (under seats or in port side locker)
-3 wakeboards with bindings 1-141 & 2-134's
-2 sets of water skis
-3-wakebord lines, 2-ski ropes & 2-4 person tube ropes
-danforth anchor & 400' of line
-sand screw type anchor & 50' of line
-3ea. 8" bumpers
-2 4 person tubes
-14 life jackets
-3 fishing tackle boxes
-5 fishing poles
-Large first aid kit
-gear bag with 6 towels, 2 sets of flippers, snorkels & goggles
-40 qt. cooler
-40 qt snack rubbermaid
-2 boogie boards
-2 600 lb Skylon sacs

I know I'm forgetting something else, but haven't completely emptied the boat in a while.

As far as wake, I'll give you that one-it's why we're looking at these boats in the first place. There is a guy with my same boat that currently uses around 3000-3500 lbs of ballast & makes some pretty sick surf wakes-I'm not looking to put that much weight in this boat & fuel use goes up significantly pushing that much weight at sub-planing speeds. Wakeboarding is good as well-it's just a little spongy in the middle.

I'm not trying to start a pissing contest here, I've been behind Moomba & Tiges & looking to see if there is any other options I'm not aware of. So far I'm pretty sold on the Malibu, Axis has some potential & the MC I would give a very solid "Meh"-it just didn't impress me regardless of the price.
Old     (iamcdn)      Join Date: Sep 2010       08-22-2013, 8:08 PM Reply   
Morgan, it sounds like the MXZ will fit your needs the best. I also upgraded from a 2009 212x to a Nautique 210 with NSS and love the move. The Yammi was a great boat, roomy and reliable, but we love the upgrade. I am sure you will be happy with whatever you decide. Good luck.
Old    Ron (Nordicron)      Join Date: Aug 2011       08-22-2013, 8:14 PM Reply   
Dill like I said didn't mean to hurt your feelings but your boat is a big jet ski, buzzy motors and all. I know the 212x, I actually demoed one and spent a afternoon on one with a guy from the Yamaha jet boaters forum. Also know that I am not a mastercraft guy, I own a San 210 myself. Just from what you say you are looking for I think the x-25 is your boat. Again any boat you are looking at will certainly do almost everything better water sports wise than you current boat will. Also it won't depreciate nearly like your Yamaha probably has. Now if all your family did was like to buzz around the lake at 50mph, anchor or beach then no these boats won't fit your bill. These boats are designed to carry lots of weight at 23mph! Or 10mph I guess for those surfer types.
Old    Morgan (dilpickle)      Join Date: Aug 2013       08-22-2013, 8:36 PM Reply   
We typically wakeboard, ski, etc. near our boat ramp. Any cruising is around 30-35, mama doesn't like going much faster than that. If you've been on a 212, then you are probably aware of how well the space is used-to me the engine cover/sunpad on most V-drives is a colossal waste of usable space, but I can see the appeal to others. The back deck is so nice for getting kids & newbies in the water with their boards on, I just hate where that damn radio remote is-I cant strap in without turning the radio on!!

I would compare the 212 more to a Larson, Glastron or Sea-Ray runabout than a jet ski. The older 2-strokes with the flatter hulls are more along that line.

On the depreciation side, I realize I m the exception rather than the rule, but I bought my boat as a leftover for $33,000 and it currently books with my options for $32345
Old    Morgan (dilpickle)      Join Date: Aug 2013       08-22-2013, 8:47 PM Reply   
As I asked in the original post, I have looked at those boats so far and am leaning towards the MXZ. I am still looking for recommendations of other boats I may not have considered or be aware of.

Thanks to all for any & all input.

Ron, sorry for the long response, but you happened to hit a sore spot from more than one experience. "Oh, you have a jet boat, I don't think we can do anything for you" followed by non stop bashing of the boat that we love. Like I said before, I am an efficiency/value guy. I can pay $150K for a boat if I decide to, but won't if I don't have to & treating me like a second class shopper just because I don't already own a MC or Nautique, you have just lost any chance to earn my business.
Old    Frank Berg (Iceberg)      Join Date: Dec 2011       08-22-2013, 9:12 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordicron View Post
Dill like I said didn't mean to hurt your feelings but your boat is a big jet ski, buzzy motors and all. I know the 212x, I actually demoed one and spent a afternoon on one with a guy from the Yamaha jet boaters forum. Also know that I am not a mastercraft guy, I own a San 210 myself. Just from what you say you are looking for I think the x-25 is your boat. Again any boat you are looking at will certainly do almost everything better water sports wise than you current boat will. Also it won't depreciate nearly like your Yamaha probably has. Now if all your family did was like to buzz around the lake at 50mph, anchor or beach then no these boats won't fit your bill. These boats are designed to carry lots of weight at 23mph! Or 10mph I guess for those surfer types.
Actually your first comment is way off-base, even with your demo. The older jet-boats maybe, but not the 212 or larger Yamaha.

I currently own an EPIC 23V and have owned and operated a number of larger jet boats and inboard (older Nautique). Had I not opted for an inboard, I would have bought a Yamaha.

You will always be comparing the features of your 212 to any of the wakeboats you have listed. Your deeper V hull and the fit and finish on the Yamaha puts most of the wakeboats to shame, especially considering the cost. My friend has a new AR240 and the storage space is absolutely crazy, with the finish being great, even in the engine compartment! However, it is a production to get it surfable and it doesn't throw an advance wakeboard wake. The front ladder is a bit of a red herring as it really limits your boat choices; however, you could get one made if you really think you need it. As well, the front seating for 4 adults is a bit unrealistic, unless they like being cozy with each other and potentially a rougher ride; 3 perhaps, but 2 is more likely or 3 or 4 kids.

As mentioned, once you buy a wakeboat you won't be going anywhere fast. You gain tracking and speed control, but you loose some maneuverability.

I like the Epic (21V or 23V), the MB Tomcat or widebody, the Centurion Avy, the Axis 22, the Bu MXZ, the Tige RZ, and the Nautique G-23 in that order for value for money! I looked at each of these (except the G-23) before I purchased my Epic used. I had made offers on a few of these boats and could have ended up with any of them and been happy with my purchase. With the nose on the Epic it would be easy to install a nose ladder system!

The best advice I can give you is to get on the water on each boat or ask owners that may operate each boat like you would. Advice from a wannabe, troll, non-family owner or hard-core rider will each have different ideas of what is ideal.

Last edited by Iceberg; 08-22-2013 at 9:17 PM.
Old    Rob Fullerton (Gotmods)      Join Date: Nov 2012       08-22-2013, 10:17 PM Reply   
I would demo the mojo. Might like the boat and price.
Old    210 SANTE (Paxdad)      Join Date: Jun 2013       08-23-2013, 4:26 AM Reply   
The Air Nautique G-23 has incredible storage everywhere!! But with the 550 motor fuel efficiency is a challenge. I really like the Malibu 22MXZ, having been on one numerous times. But I am a Nautique guy through and through so giving kudos to the MXZ really means this boat shines in my eyes.
Old    Ron (Nordicron)      Join Date: Aug 2011       08-23-2013, 4:55 AM Reply   
Dill I wouldn't compare your 212 to a Larson or Fourwinns or any of those other stern drives either. The 212 is much better than those! I know exactly what your saying the rear lounge area is awesome on your boat. But you know what the huge dang swim platform ain't so bad on most these boats either! Granted with these wakeboats we can't put up a table on the back and have lunch but in all honesty in the last 4yrs of owning my boat I've never had buyers remorse for having not bought a 212x. Having the rear designed like it is gives huge storage space in the back lockers. And having the swim platform right at water level is a close second to your setup.

Again the only reason for you to really upgrade is for the wakes correct? Which any wake boat you choose will do. For lounging and cruising your boat can't really be beat. Now back to your choice of the MXZ, if wake boarding is important you will for sure want the front tank! Also for resale you will want the front tank! Which will take all your storage. The MXZ is a nice looking boat but be warned it does ride low to the water and your wife will probably dunk the nose a few times and will need to watch out for that all the time. Something you don't have to worry at all with your 212.
Old    Ron (Nordicron)      Join Date: Aug 2011       08-23-2013, 4:58 AM Reply   
One other thing to consider is all the boats your looking at probably weigh an extra 1500-2000lbs more with the trailer than your 212 does so towing will be more of a chore. Is your vehicle up to the task.
Old    210 SANTE (Paxdad)      Join Date: Jun 2013       08-23-2013, 5:24 AM Reply   
It has not been mentioned but the docking/ handling characteristics are significantly different with a v-drive. There is not a lot of control maneuvering the boat in a docking reverse situation. Don't get me wrong these boats handle great going forward but when reversing it is entirely different, but nothing that practice and understanding the side it favors when docking etc. This will be frustrating for you wife at first. A v-drive boat will also load on a trailer different and in all likelihood require a deep water loading technique if you have a dark hull and don't want it scratched up.
As Ron points out the nose on most wakeboard boats is much lower than a bowrider style boat. The best tip I can provide is at the end of each pull session the driver must not turn. Simply back off throttle wait 2 seconds for wake to pass/ spread out and then make your turn to pick up the rider. If you are in an area with a lot of other boat traffic you have to watch their wakes if you are under power (idle speed) and entering their wake as the nose will disappear if timing and swell are just right.
Old    Morgan (dilpickle)      Join Date: Aug 2013       08-23-2013, 8:07 AM Reply   
I really like the two level that my Yamaha has on the back, it allows people with shorter legs than mine to sit down while putting their board on. The MXZ & X25 both have different versions of this. My wife actually has pretty good boat control & likes to play a game where she nearly dips the bow coming through the rollers & gives every one up front a good scare.

Also on tow vehicle, we should be fine- her Tahoe is rated to tow up to 8,500 & my Silverado is good to 10,500.

The bow ladder that we are stuck on, ironically we didn't even care about when we bought the boat, but after using for years is a must-have.

Again, thanks for all the input. We may have to look at the Nautiques-unfortunately the nearest dealer is 500 miles away.

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