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Old    P K (DocPhilMD)      Join Date: Aug 2013       08-17-2013, 8:25 PM Reply   
Okay so here is a follow up to my demo day. I looked at the 2014 MC X-10, 2013 MB sports 23 WB, 2013 Tige RZ2, 2014 SAN 210. I surfed and drove all of them hard (except the Tige-I will get to that). Now keep in mind that the surf wake was not set up on a couple boats as what many would consider ideal. So all I can review is what I looked at. I will start with the MC X-10 in this thread. I may not get them all done so I will post separately

2)2013 MB WB 23

Overall, this is kind of a strange looking but cool boat. It certainly is a "wide body" but it has a unique and interesting look. The interior is massive. I love the layout. While some might say its not fair to compare a 23 foot boat to a 21, the weight is nearly the same for all the boats I tested. So MB is getting a lot of room for the same weight. The interior was actually really good. The vinyl was very cool and expensive feeling. The interior was well designed. The dash had a great layout. Tower was average at best. I didn't really care for it. The bow was very roomy.

Fit and Finish: B

The guys who showed this boat (who were awesome by the way) didn't really set it up correctly. We used factory ballast only. However, with my two buddies, a driver and the owner's friend in the boat, the factory ballast did a NICE job. We had no sacs and it surfed great. I can only imagine where it would go with additional ballast. I was thoroughly impressed here.

Wakesurf: A

The handling and the motor is where this boat really shined. It had an LS3 upgrade. And while some may cry foul here, in all fairness, the MB guys are fitting all this into a package that was the cheapest of the day so all is fair here. Mastercraft doesn't get penalized for spending more on interior. The guys at Aqua Sports Marine did a power slide in this baby that nearly threw me off the boat! It was awesome. I could NOT believe how great this boat handled and how it conquered rollers with ease. Truly awesome here.

Handling/Motor: A+

As everyone knows, the MB boats are priced phenomenally. The boat we looked at fully loaded with the LS3 was 78K. That is without any haggling at all. What can I say...the price is right!

Price: A

The dealer was terrific. The guys were great and we had a blast. They knew everything about the boat to a minor detail and when it blew a fuse, they fixed it on the water. That showed me they know the boat. Overall, awesome and we had fun.

Dealer: A

Overall, this is a terrific boat. The wakesurf wake was solid with no ballast and only 4 passengers including the driver. The boat was roomy with good interior and unique looks and it was priced terrific.

Overall: A
Old     (WakeDirt)      Join Date: Jun 2011       08-17-2013, 9:16 PM Reply   
Winner Winner chicken breakfast!
Thanks for doing a review, I am in the market and un-biased opinions are always appreciated. Now just jump in a Enzo and you'll really help me out! And save some demo time ha ha
Old    P K (DocPhilMD)      Join Date: Aug 2013       08-17-2013, 9:22 PM Reply   
That is next weekend hopefully!

I will post a review afterwards
Old     (WakeDirt)      Join Date: Jun 2011       08-17-2013, 9:41 PM Reply   
230? Or 233?

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2
Old    Mason Obray (MCObray)      Join Date: Mar 2013       08-17-2013, 10:06 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocPhilMD View Post
The boat we looked at fully loaded with the LS3 was 78K. That is without any haggling at all. What can I say...the price is right!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MICAH_HARPER View Post
you can get a loaded MB for around 60K or less
Micah, you lie . DocPhilMD, nice review and sounds like the MB is a solid option.
Old    Bob Van Huis (dobber)      Join Date: Jul 2012       08-18-2013, 5:33 AM Reply   
Nice review PK. I own an F21 with the LS3 and I love it! Sounds like your from MI. The guys from the Edge are great to work with and know these boats like the back of their hand. MB boats remind me of Power Play boats back in the day. Solid as a rock and get the job done while leaving some money in your pocket.
Old    P K (DocPhilMD)      Join Date: Aug 2013       08-18-2013, 7:17 AM Reply   
which dealer are you referring to? I demoed at Aqua Sports Marine in Fenton
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-18-2013, 8:00 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCObray View Post
Micah, you lie . DocPhilMD, nice review and sounds like the MB is a solid option.
Well... the ls3 is (I think) like a $10K upgrade. Plus the shipping differential to Michigan. I'd guess that that boat would be $15K cheaper in CA with a 5.7.

But as an owner of a 23' with the 5.7 who runs at altitude, I would love the power of the LS3.
Old     (JetRanger)      Join Date: Feb 2013       08-18-2013, 8:00 AM Reply   
Uh oh. The MB guys are back with their "reviews." Always the same, random guy goes demoes a bunch of boats the MB outshines them all. Talking points then were rapid ballast fill time and lack of electronics; now it's expensive feeling vinyl and the ability to power slide (boat obviously doesn't have tracking fins). Who gauges handling by ability to power slide anyways (someone who wants to pull tubes all day maybe)?

Note to Op: ever consider why MB's "weight to space" ratio is so low? Ask yourself why would a bigger boat weigh less than smaller more expensive boats...
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-18-2013, 8:11 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetRanger View Post
Note to Op: ever consider why MB's "weight to space" ratio is so low? Ask yourself why would a bigger boat weigh less than smaller more expensive boats...
Loathe as I am to engage JR, I found this comment surprising myself. Having moved from a 21' malibu to a 23' MB, the towing difference is substantial.
Old     (JetRanger)      Join Date: Feb 2013       08-18-2013, 8:19 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Loathe as I am to engage JR, I found this comment surprising myself. Having moved from a 21' malibu to a 23' MB, the towing difference is substantial.
The Op stated that the MB was getting more room for the same amount of weight in that the 23' MB weighed the same as the 21' models he tested.

I'm just curious to know what type of weight saving space age technology MB has that the other manufacturers don't? The material is obviously cheaper than what the other manufacturers are using as well.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-18-2013, 8:37 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetRanger View Post
The Op stated that the MB was getting more room for the same amount of weight in that the 23' MB weighed the same as the 21' models he tested.

I'm just curious to know what type of weight saving space age technology MB has that the other manufacturers don't? The material is obviously cheaper than what the other manufacturers are using as well.
I know. I am agreeing with you, to a point.

Granted, if he did four demos in one day, seems very unlikely that he pulled each of the boats to the scales to weigh it. If the statement is made based on what the salesmen are telling him, well....

But I would sure be curious to see pics of boats on the scales with real numbers.
Old    Bill Smeltzer (runin90lx)      Join Date: Sep 2009       08-18-2013, 8:47 AM Reply   
there can be many MB haters..but surf pics dont lie. all these pics are taken by a girl laying on the sun pad.

my son=4'3" tall. wave is almost as tall as him


our friend that is about 5'2" tall


and the goofy side


Old     (JetRanger)      Join Date: Feb 2013       08-18-2013, 9:04 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by runin90lx View Post
there can be many MB haters..but surf pics dont lie. all these pics are taken by a girl laying on the sun pad.

my son=4'3" tall. wave is almost as tall as him


our friend that is about 5'2" tall


and the goofy side


MB's make great wakes but these clowns that make false user ID's and do the whole "demo" thing just make people lose respect for MBs. I suspect the whole "lighter is better" sales pitch will work on Joe Blow new boat buyer but that should raise caution flags for any knowledgeable boater.

To the Op if you are real: a lighter larger boat means shortcuts in the build process, cheaper materials and less structural material, thinner fibreglass, less R&D etc...that's how they keep costs down. It's not like they are building these boats in China.

Don't fool yourself into think some idealistic boat builder is out there building boats to rival CC, Bu, and MC in build quality but making much smaller margins, much smaller.
Old    Mason Obray (MCObray)      Join Date: Mar 2013       08-18-2013, 9:14 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Well... the ls3 is (I think) like a $10K upgrade. Plus the shipping differential to Michigan. I'd guess that that boat would be $15K cheaper in CA with a 5.7.

But as an owner of a 23' with the 5.7 who runs at altitude, I would love the power of the LS3.
Micah's in Texas, and loaded, at least my opinion refers to all the bells and whistles with upgrade motor, trailer, etc. But every one does has their own opinion of what "loaded" mean so it is certainly subject to change. Either way 78K doesn't sound too bad since a lot of boat manufactures like to increase the prices on their new model(s) by 4%-8% each year. I've been in a MB several times this year and is a nice boat, but if I had the wide range of financial flexibility that the OP has, it would be tough for me to settle on MB.

Last edited by MCObray; 08-18-2013 at 9:16 AM.
Old     (JetRanger)      Join Date: Feb 2013       08-18-2013, 9:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCObray View Post
Micah's in Texas, and loaded, at least my opinion refers to all the bells and whistles with upgrade motor, trailer, etc. But every one does has their own opinion of what "loaded" mean so it is certainly subject to change. Either way 78K sounds like a good deal since the a lot of boat manufactures like to increase the prices on their new model(s) by 4%-8% each year. I've been in a MB several times this year and is a nice boat, but if I had the wide range of financial flexibility that the OP has, it would be tough for me to settle for an MB.
I wouldn't say anyone buying an MB is "settling." It's a great boat I'm just cautioning the Op whether he's just a MB plant or an actual person that the whole "lighter is better" argument won't work here. The MB is cheaper and there is a reason why.
Old    Mason Obray (MCObray)      Join Date: Mar 2013       08-18-2013, 9:26 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetRanger View Post
I wouldn't say anyone buying an MB is "settling." It's a great boat I'm just cautioning the Op whether he's just a MB plant or an actual person that the whole "lighter is better" argument won't work here. The MB is cheaper and there is a reason why.
Agreed. A boat is a boat, and if it satisfies your wave/wake needs while putting a smile on your crew's face then thats all that matters. I was just making the point that if my budget ran from 80K-100K, an MB would be an afterthought. I know, I know, just because you can afford something, doesn't mean you should. It's simply just different folks, different strokes.
Old    Zach Thommen (edgeski1)      Join Date: Jan 2013       08-18-2013, 9:27 AM Reply   
I'm not going to go too nuts on this one, but address the weight issue.
Malibu VLX-3700, Tige RZ2-picklefork-4100, SAN 210 3900, X-10, 4600 MB 23 WB- 4100

I'd say it's pretty comparable weight wise with all but the MC.

Secondly, it is incredibly short sighted to think that weight = quality or lake thereof

Judging by the other OP's posts, he'd really have to be covering his tracks well. Take it for what it is, a review on a boat he liked

Lastly, have you actually seen, and driven an MB for yourself?
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-18-2013, 9:35 AM Reply   
those are manufacturer claimed weights too, which we know are really variable. Would love to see what they all are on the scale, out of curiosity.
Old    P K (DocPhilMD)      Join Date: Aug 2013       08-18-2013, 9:57 AM Reply   
So funny how paranoid people are on this site. MB plant?????

I simply gave my honest opinion on 4 boats


I actually own a Malibu MXZ but I'm an MB plant. U guys need another hobby
Old    P K (DocPhilMD)      Join Date: Aug 2013       08-18-2013, 10:11 AM Reply   
And Bill, I don't know why you are being so rude about it.

I didn't say lighter was better. It was simply an observation that the boats were similarly weighted
Old     (WakeDirt)      Join Date: Jun 2011       08-18-2013, 10:37 AM Reply   
-Be wary of jetranger doc, just look at his recent cling to X30s, and bashing G23s, but earlier in the year he was praising the G23. He just likes to start pissing matches, he has never seen, or been behind any of said boats. But will make regurgitated claims of their surf waves, and WB wakes.
-I dont think he owns a board. More or less understand the lifestyle of owning a boat. He is just a coffeshop college kid with a macbook talking trash. (this is the part where is tells us he is med school)
-I would love to see photgraphic eveidence proving otherwise.
Old    P K (DocPhilMD)      Join Date: Aug 2013       08-18-2013, 11:19 AM Reply   
I see. Guess I didn't realize that. I apologize to bill. I reread the post and saw that jetranger made that rude comment.


Warning heeded. All great boats but love the MB though!
Old    P K (DocPhilMD)      Join Date: Aug 2013       08-18-2013, 11:21 AM Reply   
Bill how is your MB. Weighted?
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-18-2013, 11:52 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocPhilMD View Post
So funny how paranoid people are on this site. MB plant?????

I simply gave my honest opinion on 4 boats


I actually own a Malibu MXZ but I'm an MB plant. U guys need another hobby
Lol, see I told you it wasn't a consensus boat!
Old     (JetRanger)      Join Date: Feb 2013       08-18-2013, 12:04 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by WakeDirt View Post
-Be wary of jetranger doc, just look at his recent cling to X30s, and bashing G23s, but earlier in the year he was praising the G23. He just likes to start pissing matches, he has never seen, or been behind any of said boats. But will make regurgitated claims of their surf waves, and WB wakes.
-I dont think he owns a board. More or less understand the lifestyle of owning a boat. He is just a coffeshop college kid with a macbook talking trash. (this is the part where is tells us he is med school)
-I would love to see photgraphic eveidence proving otherwise.
We don't see the world as it is but as we are....

The Op went on a cosine (tangent) about weight to size ratios and implied this was a good thing (less weight and more size). No one has contested me on that...

Stay in school kids...
Old    J (Jmorlan)      Join Date: May 2013       08-18-2013, 12:04 PM Reply   
Nuh uh bro. My peen's bigger.





Sent from my futuristic Apple device while in my office doing nothing.
Old    rzap (zap)      Join Date: Jan 2009       08-18-2013, 12:16 PM Reply   
233 Enzo 4600lbs

4700lbs with the surf graphic
Old     (JetRanger)      Join Date: Feb 2013       08-18-2013, 12:19 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by zap View Post
233 Enzo 4600lbs

4700lbs with the surf graphic
I love that graphic. Maybe the Op can get a big "Tube" graphic on his MB.

My prediction, though the Op gave the MB the highest ratings, he'll buy the CC or the MC.



A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-18-2013, 12:25 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetRanger View Post
We don't see the world as it is but as we are....

The Op went on a cosine (tangent) about weight to size ratios and implied this was a good thing (less weight and more size). No one has contested me on that...

Stay in school kids...
Hey JR, so if heft is a measure of goodness, then the LS3 sucks in comparison to the 150 lb heavier 5.7L in the MC, right?
Old     (JetRanger)      Join Date: Feb 2013       08-18-2013, 12:44 PM Reply   
You know what I mean SD...we're not taking about mountain bikes here.

I'm saying there is a reason a 21' X10 is 4700 lbs and a 23' MB weighs 600 lbs less.

The Op explicitly gave reviews on several different boats and used weight to size as a criteria. Either he's a noob spouting MB sales drivel or he's trying to sell us magic beans.


Don't drink and drive.
Old    rzap (zap)      Join Date: Jan 2009       08-18-2013, 12:57 PM Reply   
OP – Dr Phil

Great write ups,

One needs to remember that hull length is an important factor, the additional 1-2 feet of hull on the 23TWB is going to bias your wave analysis. As a fair comparison you should have tried the 21TWB.
If you have the opportunity, get out on a SV211 (if you are looking for a small boat) or a SV233 (23 foot boat). I think you will find that they both meet the criteria your looking for and are priced better.

Cats and the ramfill are just starting to hit the market. Currently the information out there is weak. I am personally very excited about the cats system as it should do everything NSS/Surfgate/Surf Tabs does without having all that extra hardware on the back of the boat to kick or catch fingers on.

Ramfill is an interesting idea, but I am sure it will reduce storage space and flexibility to customize the wave.

Also find a different Tige dealer, and try the Z3, not the RZ2, the Z3 is their surf machine and with the Convex VX I am sure it will be the new “King” once people get a chance to work with the ballast configurations.
Old     (JetRanger)      Join Date: Feb 2013       08-18-2013, 2:40 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by zap View Post
OP – Dr Phil

Great write ups,

One needs to remember that hull length is an important factor, the additional 1-2 feet of hull on the 23TWB is going to bias your wave analysis. As a fair comparison you should have tried the 21TWB.
If you have the opportunity, get out on a SV211 (if you are looking for a small boat) or a SV233 (23 foot boat). I think you will find that they both meet the criteria your looking for and are priced better.

Cats and the ramfill are just starting to hit the market. Currently the information out there is weak. I am personally very excited about the cats system as it should do everything NSS/Surfgate/Surf Tabs does without having all that extra hardware on the back of the boat to kick or catch fingers on.

Ramfill is an interesting idea, but I am sure it will reduce storage space and flexibility to customize the wave.

Also find a different Tige dealer, and try the Z3, not the RZ2, the Z3 is their surf machine and with the Convex VX I am sure it will be the new “King” once people get a chance to work with the ballast configurations.
If the Op is serious about surfing and that's it his boat will not lie within the big 3. Look at Tige or Centurion. As someone said before, try another Tige dealer.


Ignorance is not an excuse.
Old    Bill Smeltzer (runin90lx)      Join Date: Sep 2009       08-18-2013, 3:48 PM Reply   
Jetranger...im sure the MC has a little added weight with all the "extra" bling they put in them, plus all the wiring etc for all of their digital stuff on the dash, and also for the prewired pumps ballast etc. i sold my MC x1 and was looking into buying a X25. i could easily afford any of the big 3 boats, but i went with the MB after lots of research on best surf boats. there will always be something bigger and better, but for my money the MB does EVERYTHING i will use the boat for very well.

Doc--on the regular surf wave i run stock ballast full on surf side, stock ballast 1/2 full on non surf side. then i have a 750 bag in locker, 350 lb sac under side seats, and a 650lb sac in the bow(filled about 3/4 full).
on the goofy side i do the same setup only difference is i have 400 lb bag in locker instead of the 750.

all these pics posted above were with 5 adults and 1 child in the boat. and 3 small/med size ice chest.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-18-2013, 4:03 PM Reply   
Well you made me look. Just weighed my wb 23 on cat scales and got 6500 on the trailer. About a half tank of gas, 4 rev10s, a couple of jabsco pumps, anchor and related accoutrements. Would still have food and drinks and boards and vests and of course tubes for a real day at the lake.

So my wild guess would be that the boat itself sans trailer is 5100-5300.
Old     (JetRanger)      Join Date: Feb 2013       08-18-2013, 4:08 PM Reply   
Agreed Runin. MB still most boat you'll get for your dollar.
Old    Bill Smeltzer (runin90lx)      Join Date: Sep 2009       08-18-2013, 4:11 PM Reply   
but as much as i love MB...i will say if they dont do away with the ugly 1/2 windshield they are putting on the 2014's i wont buy one as my next boat LOL that is just asking to get soaked everytime you surf the boat weighed down LOL
Old     (WakeDirt)      Join Date: Jun 2011       08-18-2013, 6:08 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by runin90lx View Post
but as much as i love MB...i will say if they dont do away with the ugly 1/2 windshield they are putting on the 2014's i wont buy one as my next boat LOL that is just asking to get soaked everytime you surf the boat weighed down LOL
Not if you rock Midnight's Gate!
Old    P K (DocPhilMD)      Join Date: Aug 2013       08-18-2013, 8:35 PM Reply   
Man this whole weight thing got blown out of proportion.....

My goal with these demos was to test the best surf boat in my price range that the dealers had in stock. The weight similarity was just an observation


I have driven lots of cars that were cheaper and blew the doors off their more expensive competitors. Why isn't this possible with a boat?

The MB wasn't as cool looking but absolutely smoked the MC in performance. Bottom line. Maybe that's why the MC drove like a turd? It weighed too much. Haha
Old    Bill Smeltzer (runin90lx)      Join Date: Sep 2009       08-18-2013, 9:01 PM Reply   
Wake dirt....midnight gate???


Doc..u can't go wrong with the MB surf wake!
Old     (WakeDirt)      Join Date: Jun 2011       08-18-2013, 9:16 PM Reply   
[QUOTE=runin90lx;1839783]Wake dirt....midnight gate???QUOTE]

Midnight's surfgates he added on MB owners, you don't have to list as much, so a listing wont create as much spray
Old    Bill Smeltzer (runin90lx)      Join Date: Sep 2009       08-18-2013, 9:19 PM Reply   
I haven't seen that thread I guess
Old     (JetRanger)      Join Date: Feb 2013       08-18-2013, 9:58 PM Reply   
MB owners have their own forum?

Your average MB buyer is a sensible, middle-aged fellow with a sensible home in a sensible neighbourhood. His beard is neatly trimmed, his slacks freshly pressed, and he buttons the top button of his sensible polo top. Sure he'll splurge sometimes, take the kids to Red Lobster if he's feeling fancy, maybe the wife will wear the faux pearls....but he's a Denny's guy, cause dammit, he may just want bacon and eggs for supper. He pays his bills on time every month, but not online, no he never did trust those computers, he goes down to the bank and writes cheques..."receipt please" he tells the teller.
Old     (WakeDirt)      Join Date: Jun 2011       08-18-2013, 10:38 PM Reply   
Our favorite lil hipster talking about boats he shall never enjoy....I assure you would enjoy the lake JR, its much more fun than your groovy little coffee shop you slink up to on your roommate's longboard before your second class of the day. You should be charged for all the trolling you do on the free wifi Bro Namath Are the winters cold where you are from, you sure don't seem like someone who gets to the lake often....you should check it out.
Old     (WakeDirt)      Join Date: Jun 2011       08-18-2013, 10:45 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by runin90lx View Post
I haven't seen that thread I guess
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7vMZ...layer_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIaVQ4UaTs4

Less than stock ballast being used. Pretty legit
Old    Russ Constable (Midnightv10)      Join Date: Feb 2012       08-19-2013, 12:26 AM Reply   
750-ish in each locker and 500 in the bow... 11mph...
Boat is level..

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LiF1wA57icg
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-19-2013, 12:36 AM Reply   
There are some interesting arguments on here, some pretty strange. Everyone has different needs and preferences and criteria that are more important than others. But the MB 23 is def a legitimate choice and surf boat. Derek Miller bought one out to our lake and RJ rode it, I can't answer about anything regarding handling and all of that stuff, but the wake was good, very good. It was a bit dirty, and required a mud flap, but mostly cosmetic and I bet it will just get better as he plays more since he is one those guys (I have to be in that group also) that loves to tinker and get every bit out of his wave.

There are boats that people ask me about that I would say to steer clear of, but this is not one. The Z3 and the Z1 with VX are definitely mine and RJ's favorite surf boats, but the B52 23 WB is legit IMHO, as are several others in our experience.

I think one of the things that gave me a bad taste a while back about MB was that Pete Faggylin guy or whatever that kept posting that one and only pic that was at a tweaked angle and he was a serious tool.

I know Derek and Megan love theirs. I have a video out later this week of RJ's birthday where I have some great shots, but until then, this is from his b-day, and its only 15 seconds, 3 boats in this clip, the 24Ve, Z1 with VX, and Derek's B52 23 WB is the last. My pics and video are pretty level. ;-) I have chase shots also from the side.

Old    J (Jmorlan)      Join Date: May 2013       08-19-2013, 12:43 AM Reply   
After reading this thread, I had to check out this b52.

I really don't get the flame vinyl inlays and flame 80's trailer park speedboat graphics on the hull as well.

Wouldn't want the interior of my boat looking like some 35 year old dudes unfinished tattooed arms that still lives with his mom and preferred word of choice is "bitchin"

Sent from my futuristic Apple device while in my office doing nothing.
Old     (JetRanger)      Join Date: Feb 2013       08-19-2013, 3:33 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmorlan View Post
After reading this thread, I had to check out this b52.

I really don't get the flame vinyl inlays and flame 80's trailer park speedboat graphics on the hull as well.

Wouldn't want the interior of my boat looking like some 35 year old dudes unfinished tattooed arms that still lives with his mom and preferred word of choice is "bitchin"

Sent from my futuristic Apple device while in my office doing nothing.
All true. Might I add, when it comes to MB it's called "graffix" not graphics.

Legit surf boat yes, no one is arguing that. But this pretend doctor will not buy the MB. I can't wait for his pictures.
Old    MICAH HARPER (MICAH_HARPER)      Join Date: Apr 2010       08-19-2013, 5:05 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCObray View Post
Micah's in Texas, and loaded, at least my opinion refers to all the bells and whistles with upgrade motor, trailer, etc. But every one does has their own opinion of what "loaded" mean so it is certainly subject to change. Either way 78K doesn't sound too bad since a lot of boat manufactures like to increase the prices on their new model(s) by 4%-8% each year. I've been in a MB several times this year and is a nice boat, but if I had the wide range of financial flexibility that the OP has, it would be tough for me to settle on MB.
i may of been refuring to the F21 price....(not sure)

But for sure if you get the upgraded motor you will be closer to 70

Heck i dont know....i bought mine used
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-19-2013, 5:50 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragboy View Post
There are some interesting arguments on here, some pretty strange. Everyone has different needs and preferences and criteria that are more important than others. But the MB 23 is def a legitimate choice and surf boat. Derek Miller bought one out to our lake and RJ rode it, I can't answer about anything regarding handling and all of that stuff, but the wake was good, very good. It was a bit dirty, and required a mud flap, but mostly cosmetic and I bet it will just get better as he plays more since he is one those guys (I have to be in that group also) that loves to tinker and get every bit out of his wave.

There are boats that people ask me about that I would say to steer clear of, but this is not one. The Z3 and the Z1 with VX are definitely mine and RJ's favorite surf boats, but the B52 23 WB is legit IMHO, as are several others in our experience.

I think one of the things that gave me a bad taste a while back about MB was that Pete Faggylin guy or whatever that kept posting that one and only pic that was at a tweaked angle and he was a serious tool.

I know Derek and Megan love theirs. I have a video out later this week of RJ's birthday where I have some great shots, but until then, this is from his b-day, and its only 15 seconds, 3 boats in this clip, the 24Ve, Z1 with VX, and Derek's B52 23 WB is the last. My pics and video are pretty level. ;-) I have chase shots also from the side.

Ragboy the one quibble I have with your comments is that a mudflap is required. Not so. However the factory (or self installed aftermarket) trim tab is required. Both approaches accomplish the same thing, knocking down the rooster tail before it impacts the wave face (resulting in the "dirty" wave you describe). Unfortunately for Derek he mounted his supplemental ballast pump through hulls on the transom right where a tab would go so its not an option for him. His wave is definitely legit with the flap tho!
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       08-19-2013, 7:02 AM Reply   
What the F happened in here?!?!?! Holy cow!
When I was looking at new boats in '07, the MB's had very nice vinyl but their fit and finish was terrible. The B52 I was looking at, you could stick your fingers between the ski locker door and the boat and the latch had no chance of actually working because the door was 3/4" too small all of the way around. Luckily for newer MB buyers, they have stepped up their fit and finish. Since then, I would never buy one only because the seating area is too shallow compared to other brands and as such, I feel like my knees are in my chest when I am driving it. Great looking boats and I have to say, hands down, my favorite wakeboard wake out of all of the boats out there. My friend's F23 Tomcat's wake was amazing, the water could be horrible and that thing just put out the cleanest wakeboard wake I have ever seen and it didn't matter where people were sitting either.
Old     (WakeDirt)      Join Date: Jun 2011       08-19-2013, 8:33 AM Reply   
Ragboy, i agree that pete can rub folks the wrong way, but he does have the cleanest port wave Ive seen on an mb. Doggy has prolly the best SB wave
-i agree with the flames and the rv style gel schemes... I had a mb with the flames and i also have a few bad tattoos my self ha ha,
The new mb gel imo is straight up legit, and ive always like the classic scheme for the 12s and 13s.
-timmy i hear ya on the 06 07 s having a shallow seating arrangement, having the 65 ga fuel and the 2500 stock sub floor ballast can do that, but they added free board on the twbs and when i sat it one it made me realize the older ones like mine were a bit cramped comparatively
Old    Zach Thommen (edgeski1)      Join Date: Jan 2013       08-19-2013, 9:47 AM Reply   
also the new 22 and 24 tomcats are exceptionally deep on the inside. As the WB's get re-designed, they will for sure follow suit
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-20-2013, 6:54 PM Reply   
@shawndoggy I should have made it more clear that HIS boat seemed to require it, but did not know of the issue/upgrade you mention. I was just stating that as a disclosure type comment. When I post pictures of a wake I like to make note of any user mods just so people know and can compare. I would love to see the goofy wave on a future occasion, the regular wake was great.

Last edited by ragboy; 08-20-2013 at 6:56 PM.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-21-2013, 5:29 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragboy View Post
@shawndoggy I should have made it more clear that HIS boat seemed to require it, but did not know of the issue/upgrade you mention. I was just stating that as a disclosure type comment. When I post pictures of a wake I like to make note of any user mods just so people know and can compare. I would love to see the goofy wave on a future occasion, the regular wake was great.
Gotcha. We are on the same page.
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       08-21-2013, 7:30 AM Reply   
Is the new freeboard only on the TWB?
Old    Ian Brown (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       08-27-2013, 10:16 AM Reply   
Every message board has their JetRangers.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       08-27-2013, 11:55 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by edgeski1 View Post
I'm not going to go too nuts on this one, but address the weight issue.
Malibu VLX-3700, Tige RZ2-picklefork-4100, SAN 210 3900, X-10, 4600 MB 23 WB- 4100

I'd say it's pretty comparable weight wise with all but the MC.

Secondly, it is incredibly short sighted to think that weight = quality or lake thereof

Judging by the other OP's posts, he'd really have to be covering his tracks well. Take it for what it is, a review on a boat he liked

Lastly, have you actually seen, and driven an MB for yourself?
Oh really? You mean MB's 23 footer is the same weight as a bunch of smaller boats? Fascinating.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-27-2013, 12:15 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
Oh really? You mean MB's 23 footer is the same weight as a bunch of smaller boats? Fascinating.
which ones have you weighed, simplej?
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       08-27-2013, 3:50 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
which ones have you weighed, simplej?
Look dude, just pointing our the unnatural comparison
Old     (JetRanger)      Join Date: Feb 2013       08-27-2013, 4:10 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
Look dude, just pointing our the unnatural comparison
Very unnatural indeed...
Old     (WakeDirt)      Join Date: Jun 2011       08-27-2013, 4:43 PM Reply   
So with a Ford Fusion weighing in at 230lbs more than a BMW 3 series...please explain where BMW "cut corners" on their $44,000 msrp mid size car?
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-27-2013, 4:43 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
Look dude, just pointing our the unnatural comparison
I'm just trying to understand what is being compared? I was hoping for maybe some weights on scales for all the boats? If it's manufacturers' claimed weights, that's not a fair comparison sometimes within even the same builder, let along as between boat manufacturers.
Old     (JetRanger)      Join Date: Feb 2013       08-27-2013, 4:48 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by WakeDirt View Post
So with a Ford Fusion weighing in at 230lbs more than a BMW 3 series...please explain where BMW "cut corners" on their $44,000 msrp mid size car?
Excellent point. A Ferrari California is 5000 lbs lighter than a Ford Taurus. It stands to reason that a lighter boat is better. A Yamaha 230 jet boat is only 3500 lbs....watch out big three!
Old     (WakeDirt)      Join Date: Jun 2011       08-27-2013, 4:54 PM Reply   
5k lighter? That must be a very agile car that you are talking about...a Taurus only weighing 3900....That Ferrari must have utilized helium in the build process. Mastercraft soon to follow.
Old     (WakeDirt)      Join Date: Jun 2011       08-27-2013, 4:55 PM Reply   
I want my next 23 footer to be lighter than the other brands...less trailering weight, plane quicker, and handle better.
Old     (JetRanger)      Join Date: Feb 2013       08-27-2013, 5:01 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by WakeDirt View Post
5k lighter? That must be a very agile car that you are talking about...a Taurus only weighing 3900....That Ferrari must have utilized helium in the build process. Mastercraft soon to follow.
I'm not sure what a Taurus weighs. Maybe Holidayking's CC dealer can tell me.
Old     (WakeDirt)      Join Date: Jun 2011       08-27-2013, 5:03 PM Reply   
And a Ferrari CA is 3825....So your point is sinking faster than your switch from fanchild of the G23 to the nowMC X30 brozo......
Old     (JetRangerThePoser)      Join Date: Aug 2013       08-27-2013, 5:07 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetRanger View Post
I'm not sure what a Taurus weighs. Maybe Holidayking's CC dealer can tell me.
You can just check with your parents. Or - just get off their couch and go into the garage and see. Either way is fine.

Do you tow your X30 with your "Ferrari California?"
Old     (JetRanger)      Join Date: Feb 2013       08-27-2013, 5:22 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by WakeDirt View Post
And a Ferrari CA is 3825....So your point is sinking faster than your switch from fanchild of the G23 to the nowMC X30 brozo......
Sinking faster than CC's odds of defending its NSS patent against Volvo...
Old     (JetRanger)      Join Date: Feb 2013       08-27-2013, 5:23 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetRangerThePoser View Post
You can just check with your parents. Or - just get off their couch and go into the garage and see. Either way is fine.

Do you tow your X30 with your "Ferrari California?"
Wait, are you for me or against me?
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-27-2013, 5:24 PM Reply   
A tip of the hat to JetRanger... everyone knows he's a troll, I mean EVERYONE. Yet he still gets people to engage him. You are a master, JR. Good work!
Old     (JetRanger)      Join Date: Feb 2013       08-27-2013, 5:28 PM Reply   
And wakedirt, I need you to know I respect your jealousy. I respect it because its not me that thinks I'm better than you, it's you that thinks I'm better than you.

Facts are these, the MB weighs less because it is less boat, with lower quality build standards, thinner fiberglass, and cheaper components. That's why it's cheaper, just like Axis, and Bayliner.

Crime doesn't pay.
Old     (JetRanger)      Join Date: Feb 2013       08-27-2013, 5:29 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
A tip of the hat to JetRanger... everyone knows he's a troll, I mean EVERYONE. Yet he still gets people to engage him. You are a master, JR. Good work!
There are many a slip twixt a cup and a lip
Old     (WakeDirt)      Join Date: Jun 2011       08-27-2013, 5:35 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetRanger View Post
Wait, are you for me or against me?
Did I just troll the troll....I understand that you cant be jelly JR, its too mainstream. My trendy lil virtuoso of pissing matches. One day your insatiable love for coffee and all things MC (this month) will one day translate into an actual pull behind someone's boat...but again...boating is pretty mainstream.
Attached Images
 
Old     (JetRanger)      Join Date: Feb 2013       08-27-2013, 5:47 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by WakeDirt View Post
Did I just troll the troll....I understand that you cant be jelly JR, its too mainstream. My trendy lil virtuoso of pissing matches. One day your insatiable love for coffee and all things MC (this month) will one day translate into an actual pull behind someone's boat...but again...boating is pretty mainstream.
Mad bro? Discourse got you down? You regurgitating the hipster jabs thrown your way? Arguing with a master instigator and calling him a hipster? How like something a hipster would do.

Ode to Wakedirt:

He was smart as a whip
Ironic and hip
Until along came someone smarter than he
Now bumbling and aloof
The whole forum thinks he's a goof
Wakedirt has lost all credibility
Old     (JetRanger)      Join Date: Feb 2013       08-27-2013, 5:50 PM Reply   
God even simpleJ agrees with me.

Consider this Wakedirt, if I'm hardly ever wrong, and simpleJ is hardly ever wrong, what are the odds of both of us being wrong at the same time?

Please fill us in, why is the MB lighter? Space age material, carbon fiber hull?

Last edited by JetRanger; 08-27-2013 at 5:54 PM.
Old     (WakeDirt)      Join Date: Jun 2011       08-27-2013, 6:38 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetRanger View Post
God even simpleJ agrees with me.

Consider this Wakedirt, if I'm hardly ever wrong, and simpleJ is hardly ever wrong, what are the odds of both of us being wrong at the same time?

Please fill us in, why is the MB lighter? Space age material, carbon fiber hull?
I don't actually care braj mahal...I was just pissin' in the bees nest for a bit...The weights are not as accurate as you think they are..but reading stuff on the internet is gospel right? Throwing down some slam poetry doesn't help the fact that you aren't a hipster.


Phlebotomy school?

Last edited by WakeDirt; 08-27-2013 at 6:40 PM.
Old     (JetRanger)      Join Date: Feb 2013       08-27-2013, 7:08 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by WakeDirt View Post
I don't actually care braj mahal...I was just pissin' in the bees nest for a bit...The weights are not as accurate as you think they are..but reading stuff on the internet is gospel right? Throwing down some slam poetry doesn't help the fact that you aren't a hipster.


Phlebotomy school?
Nah all the peer reviews are taking us back to leeches...

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