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Old    TJ (Houstonshark)      Join Date: Jan 2011       06-16-2013, 9:07 AM Reply   
For the most part I've been happy with the system in my boat. The biggest 'issue' to me is the subwoofer.

I have a Wet Sounds XXX V2 powered by a SD2 amp (~1250w). The sub is in the Wet Sounds recommended, dual slot loaded enclosure that I built. It sounds good but it just doesn't do what I want it to do. The biggest issue is that it is installed below the captain's helm and therefore is right in front of me since I drive most of the time.

I don't care much at all for upper sub bass and have always crossed my subs over around (or depending on the sub and environment, below) 55-60hz. That works for this system and blends in nicely, especially for everyday use and while we are riding. I lose a ton of output though when we park the boat and I want to really get on it.

I recently bumped the crossover up to around 70hz and it definitely got a lot louder but it doesn't sound all that great to me, especially from the captain's helm.

I had a good friend and well respected fabricator and enclosure designer model the subwoofer and enclosure and he said that for the first time in a long time, he actually agrees with the recommended enclosure. I've seen him do some really crazy things with enclosures and subs that you wouldn't expect to perform and have literally blown people away. He designed a ported enclosure for me for a Wet Sounds free air 10" that I built for a buddy's boat a couple weeks ago by looking at the TS and it sounded incredible.

He recommended that I look at some sort of EQ and spend some time with a RTA on my boat to dial the sub in. So I started looking a little.

I'd like something that I can quickly change presets, mostly for the sub depending on whether we are driving the boat or just chilling out (more SQ with a lower crossover setting and smoother bass) or it is parked and I want to really crank on it (more SPL).

Most of the processors seem like complete overkill for the boat since I am pretty happy using the 420SQ for the in boats and tower and I really only need to tune the sub. If I want something that I can easily switch presets on the fly, I'm probably stuck with something really nice though.

I mostly want a good EQ and flexible crossover. Here's what I'm considering at the moment:

Rockford 360.3
Audison bit Ten D
Arc Audio PS8
JBL MS8

I'd love to find a Rockford Symmetry EPX2 in great condition. I loved the one I had in my car I used to compete with in the mid to late 90's. All the new processors do more that the Symmetry but the nostalgia would be cool and it really is a great piece IMO.

Any suggestions?
Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       06-16-2013, 11:53 AM Reply   
By having twin ports you have twice the port wall surface area (drag) as a ratio of the port surface area. That cannot produce optimium efficiency. It also consumes more displacement with more port wall construction. A slightly larger enclosure with a slightly larger single port would also be more efficient. And that can be accomplished with a single port design.
The problem with lower subwoofer crossover points is that the sub is not linear for even one full octace. It's already at half power at the crossover frequency. And you are probably at half power at the other end at about 35 Hz. In an open air environment it is hard for the midbass drivers to produce 70 hz at higher amplitudes. And bass pitch accuracy will come mostly from a) the output of the midbass drivers, and b) the phase alignment between the sub and the midbass satellites in the over-lapping crossover region. The lower you go the harder that integration will be, especially in an open field environment. For better integration with my midbass satellites I would also prefer to have my crossover point in more of the woofer's direct radiation region rather than in the sub enclosure port region.
Sometimes home theater will use a super low 50/60 Hz crossover point when they have multiple subs, like a sub on all four walls, crazy power for leverage, and they have a massive front midbass driver array. But few of those same acoustic principles apply to an open towboat.
A processor can solve alot of problems for a single listening location. A processor cannot repair profound response dips because that will be a bottomless pit which sucks the life out of your system power. So you have to have an acoustically sound system before you put the processor to task.

David
Earmark Marine
Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       06-16-2013, 8:01 PM Reply   
I've got a DD X-1 for sale - New, cheap.
Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       06-17-2013, 9:23 AM Reply   
One other thing I was thinking about is that I really like the idea of having multiple EQ and time alignment settings in a processor memory that can be called up instantly from the controller. There are several listening scenarios that could benefit from separate set-ups.

David
Earmark Marine
Old    TJ (Houstonshark)      Join Date: Jan 2011       06-17-2013, 11:02 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by david_e_m View Post
One other thing I was thinking about is that I really like the idea of having multiple EQ and time alignment settings in a processor memory that can be called up instantly from the controller. There are several listening scenarios that could benefit from separate set-ups.

David
Earmark Marine
I agree David. This is a must. I believe the Arc Audio piece has the ability to allow you to actually wire up a toggle to trigger a different preset. I may have read that wrong though. If I did, that would be a really cool feature to add! It would be nice to toggle between presets without having to use an actual controller.

I think I may play around with a single port enclosure soon.
Old    Tommy (Tommy1005)      Join Date: May 2013       06-17-2013, 12:19 PM Reply   
I put the Bit Ten in my truck and have been really impressed with it so far. If you want to hear it or mess with it, I can hook my laptop up and you can jack with the settings and see if you like the user end of it. I'm still working on getting everything in my truck the way I want it, but with so many different levels and time alignment features, it just took some time. I believe the BitTenD with the remote has the ability to switch between settings from the remote. In my truck I skipped the D because I will never use the digital part of it and didn't see the need for the remote, I'm kind of a set it and forget about it guy. Only thing I adjust regularly is the sub volume control.
Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       06-17-2013, 3:35 PM Reply   
Yes the BitTen is an intense set-up initially. But after that the D version makes changing through the five different memories a snap.
You really need to have a good RTA program and a very good mic.
Depending on the boat, I would likely use the Bit Ten and all available channels for the in-boat zone only and skip the tower.
I'd probably go with the Bit One if including the tower.

David
Earmark Marine
Old    Tommy (Tommy1005)      Join Date: May 2013       06-17-2013, 4:36 PM Reply   
I would agree with going BitOne if you're wanting to control the tower through it. I'd think tuning the tower on the 420 and using the BitTen for in boat and subs would make a noticeable difference in sound quality.
Old    TJ (Houstonshark)      Join Date: Jan 2011       06-17-2013, 5:16 PM Reply   
Yeah, I really have no interest in tuning the tower with anything but the 420.

I'm going with the Bit Ten. I'll post my results once I get it installed and tuned.
Old    Tommy (Tommy1005)      Join Date: May 2013       06-17-2013, 5:44 PM Reply   
Can't wait to see the results
Old    TJ (Houstonshark)      Join Date: Jan 2011       06-18-2013, 5:57 AM Reply   
I'll post the results but since I'm keeping the 420 in the system and will probably not want to sum the in boats and sub, I'll likely just be using the Bit Ten for the sub. I know it sounds like a waste but I really like having independent volume control over the sub, in boats and tower with the 420SQ.
Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       06-18-2013, 6:53 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Houstonshark View Post
I'll post the results but since I'm keeping the 420 in the system and will probably not want to sum the in boats and sub, I'll likely just be using the Bit Ten for the sub. I know it sounds like a waste but I really like having independent volume control over the sub, in boats and tower with the 420SQ.
That scheme is not making sense to me when used on sub only.
If I change the crossover and level of the sub then I want to make corresponding highpass changes so that I have the best phase interaction between the two.

David
Earmark Marine
Old    TJ (Houstonshark)      Join Date: Jan 2011       06-18-2013, 7:51 AM Reply   
Well, if I use it for just the sub, I would obviously still adjust the hp crossover on the amplifiers for the in boat speakers and use the 420 for basic EQ adjustments when RTA'ing.

Thinking about it a little more, I'll probably just go ahead and use the inboat output to go into the Bit Ten and then out of the Bit Ten to the inboat amps and sub amps. I'll install the remote level control for the sub amp so that I can have some ability to adjust the output of the sub on the fly.
Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       06-18-2013, 9:04 AM Reply   
That would work well.
Old    Tommy (Tommy1005)      Join Date: May 2013       06-18-2013, 10:40 AM Reply   
In that instance I would also set it up like I did in my truck. Get the regular Bit Ten, not the digital version and just add a universal bass knob. Should save you $75-$100 and have all the functionality you really need.
Old    TJ (Houstonshark)      Join Date: Jan 2011       06-18-2013, 11:21 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy1005 View Post
In that instance I would also set it up like I did in my truck. Get the regular Bit Ten, not the digital version and just add a universal bass knob. Should save you $75-$100 and have all the functionality you really need.
Yep. The SD2 has a remote level control output so I'll just use that.

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