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Old    Steven (sadams905)      Join Date: Jun 2013       06-04-2013, 12:15 PM Reply   




Chapter 1: What’s that smell?

We bought a 2008 MB Sports F23 Tomcat from Inland in July ’12. It had 25 hours on it. We were told the boat had received a complete mechanical inspection. That wasn’t the case. The very first time we took it to Havasu we had trouble. We jumped in the boat and headed up river. By the time we hit the sand bar, we could smell and see smoke coming from under the dash. A quick inspection revealed that the stereo was hooked up wrong and was backfeeding on itself. I don’t know anything about stereos and very little about boat wiring and I found this problem quickly. How did Inland miss this during their full inspection?

More to come… Chapter 2: Holy crap, it won’t stop!
Old    Steven (sadams905)      Join Date: Jun 2013       06-04-2013, 12:16 PM Reply   


Chapter 2: Holy crap, it won’t stop!

After figuring out the smoke problem from the stereo, we continued to use the boat, cautiously, the rest of the first weekend. Two weeks later we were back at Havasu for some more fun. Our problems started immediately. The boat’s forward motion seemed to have a mind of its own. It would go sometimes, or it wouldn’t. Never having a boat with Perfect Pass before, I thought maybe I was doing something wrong – after all, the boat had a full mechanical inspection, right.

After a couple hours wakeboarding and surfing, we went to find a cove to relax. It was hardly relaxing. When we got to the cove and approached shore, I throttled back to idle and dropped it into neutral to gently glide in. It barreled in without stopping. No amount of neutral or reverse was going to stop it. A few minutes later we headed to the dock to trailer the wounded beast. As we approached the dock I again went for neutral. No luck. No reverse either. In fact, when I hit reverse with some gusto to try to get her to stop, she lunged forward, narrowly missing the dock and narrowly missing injuring my passengers who were trying to catch it.

Turns out an oil line on the transmission had cracked and leaked out most of the tranny fluid and the clutches burnt out. But how could that happen? Surely Inland’s mechanic would catch a leaking oil line during its full mechanical inspection, right?

To their credit, Inland replaced the transmission at no cost. But it took over three weeks. And it should have never happened in the first place. Full mechanical inspection.

More to come… Chapter 3: Seriously??? Now what?
Old    Steven (sadams905)      Join Date: Jun 2013       06-04-2013, 12:16 PM Reply   


Chapter 3: Seriously??? Now what?

We finally got the boat back, this time with a brand new transmission. Everything should be good, right? Wrong. We got one good weekend out of it. The second time we had it out something else in the drive train failed. It started making a horrible clacking noise at low speed; it sounded like the whole engine/transmission was coming apart. So here we go again, back to the shop.

Turns out the coupler between the engine and the transmission failed. It probably should have been replaced when the transmission was replaced, but wasn’t. So now we’re without our boat again. And it’s September in Southern California – PRIME Lake Havasu season.

Our boat wasn’t ready to be picked up until December. Yes, you read that correctly, three MONTHS. So much for the fall boating season. But it’s nice to know they had performed a full mechanical inspection before I bought the boat, right?

More to come… Chapter 4: I’m no astronaut, but I know where Uranus is.
Old    Steven (sadams905)      Join Date: Jun 2013       06-04-2013, 12:17 PM Reply   


Chapter 4: I’m no astronaut, but I know where Uranus is

[I need to backtrack a bit] It’s now sometime in November and I haven’t heard a word from Inland Boat Center regarding the status of my boat (they were terrible about keeping me informed). So I called to inquire. The new coupler had been installed already. Now they were fixing a new problem. Their “mechanic” heard a noise in the motor while testing it. One of the cylinders was bad. They had to tear the motor apart and send the head out to be machined. I think a new valve or valves were installed.

This is ridiculous now. We’ve put less than 30 hours on the boat at this point. And now it’s got a bad cylinder/head/valve? Why didn’t they catch that during their full mechanical inspection? Why was it just discovered NOW, after thee months and two visits to their shop?

Again, to their credit, they fixed it at no cost to me. But by this time that’s not the point.

Come on, Inland Boat Center (Riverside, CA), that thing up in the sky is Uranus. The other thing is just a hole in the ground. Full mechanical inspection Uranus.

More to come… Chapter 5: Please… STOP THE INSANITY!
Old    Steven (sadams905)      Join Date: Jun 2013       06-04-2013, 12:18 PM Reply   


Chapter 5: Please… STOP THE INSANITY!

So we finally get the call, in December, that the boat repairs are complete and we can pick it up. That’s great, but we’re over it. WAY over it. We bought the boat to enjoy, to have fun on. It’s been nothing but trouble since the day we got it. Four months in the shop during the five months we’ve owned it. One trouble-free trip.

Sorry, not what we signed up for. Not what I’m paying a huge payment for. Not what I deem acceptable.

So we asked Inland Boat Center to buy the boat back under California’s Song-Beverly Consumer Protection Act. They refused. Even with the potential threat of a lawsuit they refused. And we’re not lawsuit people, my wife and I.

We begged and pleaded, please just take this floating Albatross back. We don’t want it anymore. We’re not enjoying it anymore. And, legally, you’re possibly bound to. Nope. Wouldn’t hear of it. So we investigated legal avenues. Problem was, we were going to have to throw more good money after bad to pursue a lawsuit that, because of the way the law is written, we may or may not win. It wasn’t a good investment (maybe not as bad as this boat, but still not good). So we tried a different approach.

We asked Inland Boat Center (Perris, CA) to provide three simple, reasonable accommodations:

1. A three-year, tip-to-tail full-coverage aftermarket warranty
2. Three years of on-water towing coverage ($183)
3. Repayment of 4 loan payments we made while they had the boat in service

Their counteroffer: A two-year drive train aftermarket warranty and nothing else.

Nice, but not enough. We hadn’t used the boat enough to shake out any bugs. Maybe something else was wrong that they hadn’t caught on their full mechanical inspection. I’ve already invested enough in this. I don’t want to get stuck with more.

So, no deal.

More to come… Chapter 6: We surrender
Old    Steven (sadams905)      Join Date: Jun 2013       06-04-2013, 12:18 PM Reply   


OUR HORRIBLE INLAND BOAT CENTER EXPERIENCE, Chapter 6: We surrender

Inland Boat Center (Perris, CA) has rejected our request to buy back this chronically defective boat. They have rejected our offer to settle the situation a different way. They have counter offered with an unacceptable solution.

So my wife and I spend the next four months tirelessly, painfully, constantly, difficultly, frustratingly negotiating with Inland to develop a solution that would provide us with some peace of mind and level of trust in this floating hunk of fiberglass. I can’t even begin to tell you how many phone calls and emails were exchanged during that time, but it was way too many in my book. What ever happened to customer service?

All we wanted, at this point, was some assurance that this pile of crap would make it through a couple of seasons without costing us a fortune out of pocket.

In the end we finally gave up; we submitted. We just couldn’t win. So we surrendered. We were finally able to get one small victory. After four months of negotiating and hassle, Inland finally agreed to provide two warranties: one for the drive train and one called a wakeboard package that is supposed to cover almost everything else. But that was it. No loan payments, no on-water towing (again, only $183).

That’s all well and good, but it took SO MUCH to get there. Months of agonizing negotiations. And in the end, when we saw the invoice for the second warranty, the cost was $630. Seriously? You screwed us around for four months over $630? You completely pissed me off over $630? You provided deplorable customer service over $630? You forever alienated a customer over $630? You gave me Facebook fodder over $630?

Apparently Inland keeps their customer service manuals in the same place as their manuals on how to perform a full mechanical inspection.

More to come… Chapter 7: When you’re really good they call you Cracker Jack
Old    Steven (sadams905)      Join Date: Jun 2013       06-04-2013, 12:20 PM Reply   


OUR HORRIBLE INLAND BOAT CENTER EXPERIENCE, Chapter 7: When you’re really good they call you Cracker Jack

When you’re really good they call you Cracker Jack. When you’re not, apparently you go to work at Inland Boat Center (perris, ca).

It’s now April 2013 and we have the boat back…finally. We took it in for repair in September 2012. They promise us it’s mechanically sound. They tell us it’s been lake tested and is ready to go. Sounds good, but, as Ronald Reagan said, “Trust but verify.” So we took the boat to an outside mechanic for a full mechanical inspection. And, WOW, he actually performed one. Imagine that.

Equally amazing, he found problems.

He had a whole list of issues, the primary of which was low compression in one cylinder and a strange noise in the motor. And, try to stick with me here, the cylinder with the low compression was the same cylinder that Inland’s Cracker Jack mechanic repaired. Yes, you read that correctly.

I called Inland to inquire. The “mechanic” got on the phone and told me that it just needs to be run in for a while so the new valve can seat. “How long?” I asked. He said about ten minutes or maybe one lap around the lake. “But you said you lake tested the boat,” I replied.

So which was it? Did they fail to lake test it and lie to me? Or did they do bad mechanical work and it was still broken? It can’t be both lake tested and just in need of a quick trip around the lake. Hmmm…something doesn’t add up.

Three problems now:

1. There is a 30-day waiting period for the warranty so it hasn’t kicked in yet
2. There is no clear course of action to fix it (after all, it’s already been repaired and we’ve been assured everything is fine)
3. It’s the start of the boating season and we want to use this financial burden we call a boat

So run it and hope for the best? Or park it and wait?

I love Inland Boat Center!!!! (perris, ca)

More to come… Chapter VIII: A new hope
Old    Steven (sadams905)      Join Date: Jun 2013       06-04-2013, 12:21 PM Reply   


OUR HORRIBLE INLAND BOAT CENTER EXPERIENCE, Chapter VIII: A new hope

This is where the story finally gets better. A ray of sunshine has broken through the black cloud.

We took the boat to Parker, Arizona over Mother’s Day weekend. Had a great time. We wakeboarded, wake surfed, cruised the Colorado River and, finally, enjoyed our boat and ourselves.

For only the second time since we had the boat we enjoyed a trouble-free weekend on the boat. Our friends who joined us didn’t have to jump in the water to stop it before the boat slammed in to the dock. My wife and I didn’t have to stress whether it was going to leave us stranded in the middle of nowhere. No smoke billowing from under the dashboard. Finally, just a fun, relaxing weekend on our boat.

Maybe the worst is behind us. Maybe this tragic comedy is going to have a happy ending. Maybe we did make the right purchase after all.

Thanks Inland!

More to come… Chapter 9: The engine strikes back
Old    Steven (sadams905)      Join Date: Jun 2013       06-04-2013, 12:22 PM Reply   


OUR HORRIBLE INLAND BOAT CENTER EXPERIENCE, Chapter IX: The engine strikes back

We used the boat for a trouble-free weekend. Everything worked perfectly. The worst was behind us, and we were feeling pretty good about it.

Then we took it out again. Trip number 2. Apparently this boat doesn’t like even numbers, because it always seems to fail on the second trip. We can get one good weekend out of it, then it craps the bed.

We got to use it for part of the weekend, doing some wake surfing on Saturday morning and then some quick trips to and from a cove in the afternoon. On Sunday we decided to go up river to a popular spot called the Pirate Channel. It worked fine on the way there. On the way back, however, it crapped out again.

At one point we stopped to cool off in the water. When I dropped it to idle to slow down, I could feel the motor vibrate violently all the way through the boat. It ran so rough I could see the vibration in the wakeboard tower. The tower was shaking back and forth while sitting in flat water.

I limped it back to the dock and called it a weekend. An early weekend. Again. There goes our three-day holiday weekend.

I’m pretty sure the cylinder Inland repaired blew out somehow. It felt like an engine running on only 7 of its 8 cylinders. And the sound was distinct, like air escaping past a bad valve.

So it’s in the shop. Again. Not Inland’s shop. No way. No way I’m letting Cracker Jack touch this thing again. Not sure what they’ll find, but I’ll bet my wife that it’s got something to do with that bad cylinder.

There goes this boating season.

More to come… Chapter 10: It only takes 9 months to make a baby
Old    Steven (sadams905)      Join Date: Jun 2013       06-04-2013, 12:22 PM Reply   


OUR HORRIBLE INLAND BOAT CENTER EXPERIENCE, Chapter 10: It only takes 9 months to make a baby

I’m not a parent. But I know enough about the process to be relatively sure it takes about 9 months to make a baby. I used to think that making a baby was one of the most amazing and difficult tasks ever. No longer.

Apparently ordering a replacement swim step pad for our boat is a more substantial feat since it’s taken over 10 months to accomplish.

One stipulation of the original sale was that Inland repair the rubber swim step pad (a rubber pad glued to the swim platform on the back of the boat). We bought the boat in July 2012. It’s still not fixed today.

After months of Inland’s ineffectiveness, I finally called the factory to inquire. MB said they no longer make one, and directed me to an aftermarket supplier that has the exact mold, dimensions, material, color, etc. to replace it perfectly. A 5-minute phone call was all it took to discover the solution.

I gave this information, including the exact web site address and specifics, to Inland on May 6, 2013. It’s now June 3rd and they still haven’t ordered it, let alone replaced it. The online ordering process is less than a half-dozen clicks.

On top of that, there’s this… In the same May 6th email I asked Inland to let me know what maintenance items had been replaced on the boat when they had it in for multiple repairs. No answer. It wasn’t until I emailed (three weeks later)to tell them about the latest failure that they replied. The fuel filter wasn’t replaced, nor was the impeller.

I’m not upset that they didn’t replace them; although, given the history of this boat logic should dictate that you do everything you could to ensure it wouldn’t have any more problems. I’m upset that it took three weeks for them to answer, and it took a prompt from me to get the answer. Especially because, and I realize this is out of their control, I had shoulder surgery during those three weeks. If I had known I needed to replace those items prior to the surgery I could have done so myself. Not now. Not for six weeks or so. So now I have to pay someone to do it or wait and hope for the best. That’s just irritatingly poor customer service.

Stellar pre-sale mechanical inspection. Stellar service work. Stellar customer service.

More to come… Chapter 11: Wrap it up
Old    Steven (sadams905)      Join Date: Jun 2013       06-04-2013, 12:23 PM Reply   


OUR HORRIBLE INLAND BOAT CENTER EXPERIENCE, Chapter 11: Wrap it up

A hearty thank-you to those who have followed this saga, and especially to those who have offered support. We appreciate it. I’m perplexed by those who have defended Inland, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. Two comments regarding that: 1. I’ve left out a LOT of the minutia or this could have, literally, been a book. 2. I doubt few people would have been so patient and understanding if this had happened TO THEM rather than reading about it online.

Regardless, I’m going to wrap this up with some highlights and details that may have been left out. To me and my wife, this first one is a big one.

1. I am a repeat customer. Yes, repeat customer. I bought my first boat from Inland Boat Center (perris, ca) and we have still been treated this way.
2. Our interactions (until this last problem) have been extremely positive and cordial – on both sides of the fence. Both sides have kept their cool and tried to work through this productively. I do credit Inland for that, but we feel their efforts have fallen woefully short – especially recently.
3. Communication has been poor. It’s taken too long for Inland to respond. They left me hanging on emails, they didn’t return calls. There were few or no updates during the repair process. I didn’t even know there was a problem in the motor until I called to inquire what was taking so long. Great communication is the cornerstone of any positive relationship.
4. I know boats can be difficult. I know boats can (and usually do) have problems. We have friends who have had a boat for over 10 years and it’s never had a single mechanical issue even close to what we’ve had. And we bought from a dealer rather than an individual specifically to get a boat that had been inspected and good post-sale support. But this much trouble in this amount of time would exceed the congeniality capacity of the Dalai Lama.
5. In case you missed it, we’ve owned the boat for ten months now. We’ve used it 7 times (once was an extended lake test). It has given us serious, weekend-ending, take-it-to-the-shop problems 4 of those 7 times. That’s a 57% failure rate.
6. I don’t want to discuss exact figures, but suffice it to say this boat cost over twice what my truck cost. And my truck is now 10 years old and has 185,000 miles on it with only two significant mechanical issues. The boat has less than 100 hours on it and hasn’t made it through two weekends in a row. To me that says defect. To me, that says we were sold a product that failed to live up to the implied warranty of merchantability. They should take it back.
7. At the beginning we were happy with Inland performing the required repairs at no cost. Of course, it was in their warranty, so they had to. But after the third major mechanical issue we were over it. We didn’t want this boat. This was in December. We proposed that Inland refund us for the boat and we go our separate ways. That would have ended things. We would have been happy. It would have been the right thing to do. Instead, Inland refused. They assured us the boat was mechanically sound. They said they had no legal requirement to buy it back and therefore would not. When I asked if they would buy it back if forced to by a judgment, they said yes. Then why not now, to make a repeat customer happy? Why not before it failed for the fourth time? Why put us through this?
8. On the wall in the sales area at Inland is a giant sign that reads, “Sell Them All.” I find this interesting and indicative of the support we’ve received. Not, “Provide Excellent Customer Service,” or “Make Them Happy.” No, their focus is on sales, not customer service. Anyone can sell something. Good companies can exceed customer expectations after that sale.
9. At this time we are probably stuck with this giant hunk of unearthed s&*t. And while I really appreciate all the support we’ve gotten, what I really want is for the world to be aware of this story. I want the world to know how Inland Boat Center (perris, ca) treats repeat customers. I want the world to think twice before buying a boat there. So please share this story with your network as you see fit. Thanks!
10. Full mechanical inspection
Old    William Burell (williamburell)      Join Date: Sep 2011       06-04-2013, 12:59 PM Reply   
So what you are saying is........you don't like Inland Boat Center? Not to be litigious but I would have just sued them after the first 6 months if all you say is true.
Old    Steven (sadams905)      Join Date: Jun 2013       06-04-2013, 1:03 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by williamburell View Post
So what you are saying is........you don't like Inland Boat Center? Not to be litigious but I would have just sued them after the first 6 months if all you say is true.
Something like that.

We didn't sue because it goes against my nature in just about every way possible. Plus, it wasn't a slam dunk and was going to cost money out of pocket. But, as I said, I just really didn't like the idea of a law suit.
Old    Kevin Skonnord (kskonn)      Join Date: Mar 2011       06-04-2013, 1:18 PM Reply   
wow, really sad to hear that happened to you. Great write up, enjoyed the structure. I have been very fortunate to have a great dealership 15 minutes from my house. I hope your boat gets better.
Old    Brian L (brianl)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-04-2013, 1:20 PM Reply   
Honestly, you were very patient but hopefully you learned one important thing..........and that is you should of bought a Malibu
Old    TN22            06-04-2013, 1:43 PM Reply   
Sounds like you should be at least a little angry with MB too. When my car had repeat faults and the dealer was having trouble fixing it I was getting mad at them and Ford for letting it leave the assembly line so messed up. Just my .02
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       06-04-2013, 2:11 PM Reply   
Wow. What a nightmare. Sorry man.
Old    Mike (slowwwflowww)      Join Date: Mar 2011       06-04-2013, 2:18 PM Reply   
That sucks nothing worse than having day after day ruined trying to have fun on the water!!!!!!!
Old    Eric Scott (phillywakeboarder)      Join Date: Sep 2008       06-04-2013, 3:17 PM Reply   
Now that's a story! I really hope everything works out for you. I've heard that ultra low hour boats (I think you said it had 25 hours and was 5 years old) can be a boatload of trouble (literally), but I guess I never really believed it. Good luck!
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       06-04-2013, 3:34 PM Reply   
Sorry that happened. I wrote the same story in 1999 when I bought a brand new Bayliner Ski Challenger. Ruined every weekend that summer. Dealer was terrible. Started to call me a liar as the issues piled up. My story has a happier ending though. Bayliner ended up stepping up by the fall and took the boat back to one of their factories for the winter and completely reconditioned it while making my payments. We used it the following summer and it worked as it should, but in my mind I always hated it and never trusted the boat. I sold it the following year for a small loss and was happy it was gone. It was the first brand new boat I ever bought and easily was the worst I have ever owned.

I can tell you, its never going to be right even when it works. Your never going to trust it and you will always deep down hate the boat. My advice is sell it when you can.
Old    Scott Macedo (scott)      Join Date: Feb 2010       06-04-2013, 5:42 PM Reply   
I had a similar service with a Sanger dealer. I ended up calling Sanger and they were great at fixing everything that the dealer said they would fix. I just had to get the boat to them, it's about a two hour drive, I took it down and because it was December I left it there and picked it up three weeks later all finished. I'm very pleased with Sanger. I would recommend you call the dealer for help!
Old    Louis Teague (loux2)      Join Date: May 2004       06-04-2013, 6:09 PM Reply   
I feel for you and your wife. That is the worst story I have ever heard. I will make sure nobody I know ever does business with them. The problem with filing a lawsuit is if you need representation it is extremely expensive. You looking at $300.00/hour and a $20,000.00 retainer for a lawyer. Every time you so much as e-mail that representation it's going to cost at least $300.00 bucks. Have you tried "7" on your side?
I appreciate you taking the time to inform us all of your loss. Good luck with your boat.
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       06-04-2013, 6:21 PM Reply   
Tn22,

Why should the manufacturer take the heat on a 4 year old boat that was bought used? Sounds like these issues are rooted in misuse and or poor service, none of which the manufacturer would be able to control. This story sux and I hate to hear it, but was the boat ever sea trialed before leaving the lot with it....on any occasion?
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       06-04-2013, 6:45 PM Reply   
All i can say is WOW! I know i would have blown up much earlier than you did.
Old     (CarZin)      Join Date: Feb 2011       06-04-2013, 7:00 PM Reply   
Chpthrill, the boat has 25 HOURS when he bought it. Not exactly much time for misuse.
Old    Charlie Zulu (Pad1Tai)      Join Date: Jan 2013       06-04-2013, 7:25 PM Reply   
Sounds like you need to buy a new boat with your mechanical ability.. Bit too much theatrics in this thread....
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       06-04-2013, 7:26 PM Reply   
48 months is plenty time to abuse a boat: lack of frequent oil changes leaves uses caustic oil in the crankcase, probably with moisture in it. Fuel begins to spoil with a month and is in a very poor state in 6 months and will crystallize in the fuel system . Ethanol blended fuel in the tank will absorb moisture and end up phase separating. improper winterizing leads to frozen and cracked blocks. Impellers dry rot. This doesnt even get into the quality of service, if it did get any.

I would rather own a 4 year old boat with 1000 hrs, then a 4 year old boat with 25.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       06-04-2013, 7:37 PM Reply   
I have to agree with Mike. No boat manufacturer offers a 4 year warranty. How could the builder be responsible for the 4 years later when they have zero control over how it was treated/ maintained.
Old    Detox (bass10after)      Join Date: Feb 2010       06-04-2013, 8:07 PM Reply   
Everyone can point fingers all they want, but a good dealer would've and should have handled that a lot differently. They had the ability to take that boat back bring it back to good working order and resell it down the road and get their customer into something else that actually works. He didn't want to sell the boat back because buyers remorse, he wanted to sell it back because they sold him a line of bs to go with his lemon. If it was abused then the dealer should have spotted that, and not taken it in to begin with. That's just a raw deal. I feel bad for the guy too. What should have been fun times on a boat turned out to be wasted money on a nightmare.
Old    Charlie Zulu (Pad1Tai)      Join Date: Jan 2013       06-04-2013, 8:38 PM Reply   
The boat could have been a repo or salvage... We need more pics of the boat...
Old    Mike (doubleup720)      Join Date: Jul 2007       06-04-2013, 8:51 PM Reply   
The boat was a repo and most likely not taken care of.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       06-04-2013, 8:57 PM Reply   
Mike, where did you see that. i didn't see anywhere that the OP said the boat was a repo??
Old    Mike (doubleup720)      Join Date: Jul 2007       06-04-2013, 9:16 PM Reply   
Most of the boats Inland sells are from the auction. So my guess is that this MB is from the auction as a repo. I do not know for sure but I would would say their is a high percent chance that's where this came from.
Old    Markj (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       06-04-2013, 9:58 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardman74 View Post
I have to agree with Mike. No boat manufacturer offers a 4 year warranty. How could the builder be responsible for the 4 years later when they have zero control over how it was treated/ maintained.
My 2005 SAN had a 5 year bow to stern warranty. Only used it once on a minor upholstry thing.
This whole story was well written and I can't help but feel sorry for the owner. Best of luck in the future...
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-04-2013, 10:18 PM Reply   
Am I missing something or was the boat not sold as a used boat as is with no warranty?
Old    Markj (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       06-04-2013, 10:48 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by polarbill View Post
Am I missing something or was the boat not sold as a used boat as is with no warranty?
Good point however, he said the dealership stated that they did a complete mechanical inspection and everything was okay. In other words they implied that the boat ran perfectly. Now if he had the boat for even a few months or a year before this happened, that would be one thing. But his problems were immediately following his purchase.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-05-2013, 8:05 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
Good point however, he said the dealership stated that they did a complete mechanical inspection and everything was okay. In other words they implied that the boat ran perfectly. Now if he had the boat for even a few months or a year before this happened, that would be one thing. But his problems were immediately following his purchase.
I am just going to try and play devil's advocate here since we only have one side of the story.

I get that but reading through the problems I am not sure that any would of necessarily show up in an inspection except the stereo thing.

1) Since the boat was probably(going off what others know of this dealer) a repo with almost zero hours of use how do we know the problem with the transmission would of even showed up in an inspection?

2) As for the coupler, why would a coupler with 25 hours need to be replaced? I think that was just bad luck and as for taking 3 months do we know if the coupler was a back ordered item or was it just that they couldn't get to the boat because other boats were ahead of it? Sometime's parts are out of stock from the manufacturer and parts people can't just pull them out of their arse. Did it even take 3 months to get the boat back because of the coupler or because they found another problem?

3) As for the bad cylinder originally how do we know that showed up when they did an initial compression test. If the boat was bought at a repo auction there was a compression test done then and they should have some paperwork for it. Maybe the compression was fine but because the boat sat so much something failed after the first weekend? It sounds like it ran fine the first weekend. Maybe the problem didn't show any symptoms till after you bought the boat?

4) If they said they worked on the cylinder and head and it failed right after that seems crappy. I would have problems with that but then again, they didn't charge you for the original work did they? They could of just told you to pay for it when they fixed it.

5) the mat thing sucks and someone should of caught it and called MB directly to find out what options there are. Maybe they had a parts person just call MB to ask if they had one in stock and were told no and left it at that? Doesn't make it right but overall this is a small issue although I know it is just something else to add to the pile.

6) They provided you with a drive train warranty and another warranty even though they were not obligated to. The idea of asking them to buy the boat back is ridiculous.

So again, did the PO not say right on it "Bought AS IS with NO warranty" or not? I would venture a guess that it was. So even though it was bought with no warranty they fixed a transmission free of charge, a coupler free of charge and a cyclinder/head(maybe) free of charge. Sounds to me like they didn't have to do any of that but did it anyway to try and make you happy. Sure the lack of communication sucks and with email and smart phones today there is really no reason not to get back to someone in a timely matter unless you don't want to. I don't get the part about buying the boat back or providing extra warranty. They sold you an as is used boat, did they not? It appears they don't sell any wakeboarding boats new. Maybe they aren't use to dealing with the tow boat makers and so parts are harder to come by. They may have had to go through another dealer that actually sells MB and maybe they are the one's that dropped the ball on the matt?

Just the way you presented this with the over top dramatics, pictures and crap makes me think there is another side to this story and that you would probably be an incredibly hard person to deal with. I could be wrong of course but then again we haven't heard their side of the story. Maybe they are better off without you as a customer. One thing I have learned is not all customers are "good" customers and not all customers are worth having. Does Inland have a long history of bad service or is this an isolated incident?

Some of this is just me playing devil's advocate but I think a lot of the questions I have are valid.

By the way. Sorry you bought a problem boat. I can imagine how frustrating it would be. I hope you learned a lesson though. If you are buying a used boat have a trusted mechanic look at any boat you are buying and test drive it so you can play with everything to make sure it works. Either that or buy brand new so you have a factory warranty.
Old    Steven (sadams905)      Join Date: Jun 2013       06-05-2013, 9:36 AM Reply   
Thanks for the reply, polarbill.

The boat was sold with a 30-day warranty. The failures started within the warranty period.

I don't know exactly how long it took to get the coupler because communication was so poor. I do know that part of what took so long was that they discovered the cylinder problem while they had it in to fix the coupler.

The minute I got the boat back from the cylinder repair (under warranty) I had an outside mechanic (at my cost) go over it. That same cylinder was low on compression. That's poor workmanship.

I called the manufacturer in August about the swim step matt. I told Inland they needed to look elsewhere. All they had to do was call MB and ask. It took me 5 minutes, eventually (in May finally when I got frustrated with the lack of action), to find the name and web site address for a supplier. I gave it to Inland and they still did nothing with it. 10 months to order a simple part is unacceptable and indicative of this whole situation.

They provided the aftermarket warranties to placate us and to avoid a law suit. No, they didn't have to. But if you knew what it took to get there, you may not think it's such a stretch for them. Keep in mind I left out a lot of the small details for the sake of brevity. And the story was still ridiculously long.

The dramatics and pictures were an attempt to engage the audience so that the story would spread. Online postings with pictures grab a lot more viewers than those without. Also, if you couldn't tell, I like to write.

And, you're right, not all customers are good customers. I was, however, a repeat customer. Seems like a pretty good customer to me. We did everything we could to settle this as amicably as possible. Always polite and cordial. But when the motor failed again, and it ruined our weekend again, and they told me they hadn't ordered the matt still, that was it. No more Mr. Nice Guy. So here we are.

Someone asked earlier about the condition of the boat. Cosmetically the boat is perfect. It's beautiful. It looks like it just rolled off the showroom floor. Aside from one rogue scratch in the gel coat, it didn't show 1 hour of use, let alone 25. That's why we bought it. It was a beautiful dream that turned in to a dreadful nightmare.

Thanks polarbill for the feedback and the well wishes. Thanks to everyone else who offered support, too.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-05-2013, 9:49 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by sadams905 View Post
Thanks for the reply, polarbill.

The boat was sold with a 30-day warranty. The failures started within the warranty period.

I don't know exactly how long it took to get the coupler because communication was so poor. I do know that part of what took so long was that they discovered the cylinder problem while they had it in to fix the coupler.

The minute I got the boat back from the cylinder repair (under warranty) I had an outside mechanic (at my cost) go over it. That same cylinder was low on compression. That's poor workmanship.

I called the manufacturer in August about the swim step matt. I told Inland they needed to look elsewhere. All they had to do was call MB and ask. It took me 5 minutes, eventually (in May finally when I got frustrated with the lack of action), to find the name and web site address for a supplier. I gave it to Inland and they still did nothing with it. 10 months to order a simple part is unacceptable and indicative of this whole situation.

They provided the aftermarket warranties to placate us and to avoid a law suit. No, they didn't have to. But if you knew what it took to get there, you may not think it's such a stretch for them. Keep in mind I left out a lot of the small details for the sake of brevity. And the story was still ridiculously long.

The dramatics and pictures were an attempt to engage the audience so that the story would spread. Online postings with pictures grab a lot more viewers than those without. Also, if you couldn't tell, I like to write.

And, you're right, not all customers are good customers. I was, however, a repeat customer. Seems like a pretty good customer to me. We did everything we could to settle this as amicably as possible. Always polite and cordial. But when the motor failed again, and it ruined our weekend again, and they told me they hadn't ordered the matt still, that was it. No more Mr. Nice Guy. So here we are.

Someone asked earlier about the condition of the boat. Cosmetically the boat is perfect. It's beautiful. It looks like it just rolled off the showroom floor. Aside from one rogue scratch in the gel coat, it didn't show 1 hour of use, let alone 25. That's why we bought it. It was a beautiful dream that turned in to a dreadful nightmare.

Thanks polarbill for the feedback and the well wishes. Thanks to everyone else who offered support, too.
The lack of communication would of been the thing that pissed me off most about the dealer. I know you are out the time but like someone else suggested I would strongly consider just getting rid of the boat. Like they said you will never trust it and there will always be some resentment towards the boat. It just sounds like a crappy situation all around for both parties involved.
Old    MLO (cbarguy1)      Join Date: Dec 2012       06-05-2013, 10:10 AM Reply   
Boats are like women, "givers of pain and delight". This story is a reminder of how much boat problems can affect your precious free time. If you do the hard math on how much your boat costs per hour of use, its sobering. And when those hours are spent in misery, its really a shame.

Though it may not have been an issue in this case, as a general rule spend the extra $$ to get a good boat instead of a good deal.
Old    Scott (scottb7)      Join Date: Oct 2012       06-05-2013, 10:16 AM Reply   
So true on how much we actually pay (gas, insurance, prop taxes if on lake, commute to lake, equipment) for so little actual time on the water.
Old    Steven (sadams905)      Join Date: Jun 2013       06-05-2013, 10:18 AM Reply   
That's the essence of this situation: It felt like both a good boat and a good deal. (insert sad-and-disillusioned-faced emoticon here)
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       06-05-2013, 10:41 AM Reply   
with any boat you get 2 warranties, one for the boat and one for the engine, this one would lean toward PCM not MB, but it was 4 years old and out of warranty, so I agree with the OP, the dealer should have gone through it and known what they are selling and should be standing behind.... to some degree
Old    Steven (sadams905)      Join Date: Jun 2013       06-05-2013, 11:46 AM Reply   
UNBELIEVABLE!

I just spoke with the mechanic in Havasu that's working on the boat right now, following its latest failure on Memorial Day weekend. The number 5 cylinder completely detonated. Not the number 7 cylinder as I expected, the one that Inland supposedly repaired and was low on compression. No, this is a new issue.

The motor is completely trashed. It's going to require either a total replacement motor or a total rebuild. And the mechanic doesn't sound real interested in performing a rebuild.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME????!!!!!! A total engine failure within the first 100 hours. This is total BS.

I am so over this boat. I am so over boating in general. I'm not sure I ever want to go to the river again.

Right now I feel as trashed as that motor.
Old    Daniel (cowwboy)      Join Date: Jul 2008       06-05-2013, 12:00 PM Reply   
Thats crazy. Makes me wonder what the previous owner did to destroy a motor so quickly.
Old     (CarZin)      Join Date: Feb 2011       06-05-2013, 12:09 PM Reply   
Steven, really really sorry for your incredibly unfortunate luck. At this point, I'd be tempted to pull it into a crime ridden neighborhood, and hope someone steals it for an insurance loss.

I hope you know your experience is very contrary to the vast majority of boat owners. I think you need to put a new engine in it, then get rid of it. Take your loss, and move on. And next time, hopefully buy new and avoid all this worry right from the get go.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       06-05-2013, 1:16 PM Reply   
^^^^^Get it running and get it sold. If its as clean as you say should be able to get prime money and send it down the road.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       06-05-2013, 1:42 PM Reply   
yeah this is a bummer. We had some mechanical issues when we first got our old boat and were already having thoughts like yours. And the fix ended up being easy. Losing a tranny and now a motor, holy smokes. I'd be ready to write off boating too.
Old     (will5150)      Join Date: Oct 2002       06-05-2013, 1:53 PM Reply   
Dude- Wake up , Suck it up and SUE! if 1/2 of this post is remotely true, you are well within your rights to sue and win. Enough with your mamby-pamby "i don't sue people" routine. The law is there to protect you and all consumers from this kind of abuse. Keep in mind, if you decide not to sue, you're just enabling bad behavior- which in my book is worse.

Your court cost will get covered and you'll be riding around in a new boat soon. Lawyer UP!!
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       06-05-2013, 4:47 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianl View Post
Honestly, you were very patient but hopefully you learned one important thing..........and that is you should of bought a Malibu
I have a similar story about an 11 vlx...

Better idea is to check your dealer out first! Always!
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       06-05-2013, 4:50 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardman74 View Post
^^^^^Get it running and get it sold. If its as clean as you say should be able to get prime money and send it down the road.
Really? You're suggesting he screw someone else? Who are you...

Force it by law back into the dealers hands don't pass your lemon along

Last edited by simplej; 06-05-2013 at 4:54 PM.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       06-05-2013, 5:17 PM Reply   
I'm not suggesting he screw anybody. I'm telling him from experience that he is always going to hate the boat after what he has been thru. What I am saying is fix the boat to the best of you ability and all problems you know to be present. I didn't say throw a set of pistons/rings in it and sell it. I can also tell him and anyone else who wants to listen legal recourse is slim. Lemon law in most states only applies to new and at that only cars. My boat had just an many issues and was brand new and still there was no recourse under lemon law. I talked to probably 50 lawyers at the time. Most told me your not going to get anywhere. The ones who said maybe wanted huge retainers. Which I can tell you from having an ex from the legal field means we doubt you are going to win and want to be paid up front. To the best of my knowledge to this day lemon law does not apply to boats. Now there may be a law in your particular state that helps, but as to federal lemon law..nope.

So I'm not suggesting he screw anyone. What would you have him do, park the boat in his garage and leave it there? Might as well fix it and either use it or sell it. If anything ever goes wrong with my boat am I screwing someone when I sell it? Who am I.....I'm just a guy on an internet forum. Just like you are SimpleJ.
Old    Brad Walker (humboldt9)      Join Date: Jun 2004       06-05-2013, 7:18 PM Reply   
Lemon Laws absolutely apply to boats in most States, including CA. That being said it sounds like most lemon law case wins will fall into when the boat is still under Manufacturer Warranty which in this case it isn't; and when it applies it's usually the Manufacturer replacing the boat not the dealer. Unfortunately this is a classic case of "buyer beware" including the fact he bought a boat from this dealership prior to this purchase. I know first hand this dealer is a major buyer at repo auctions which is why you think your getting a good deal. Regardless, thanks for sharing your story (which was on of the best thought out posts I've read on this forum and I would imagine most would agree based on your read count) hopefully you'll save some other first or second time boat buyer the anguish you're going through. Lastly, good luck and I hope you rethink your thought of getting out of boating in entirety.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       06-05-2013, 7:34 PM Reply   
Doing a little more reading lemon law CAN, but does not always apply to boats. It varies greatly state to state, but there are almost always 3 constants. Boat must have been purchased new and be the original owner(OP is Not), must be within the first 2 years(boat is not) and boat must still be under the original manufacturers warranty(boat is not). Also the case is against the product manufacturer, not the selling dealer. As I see it and based on what I read, there is no way the lemon law applies here State or federal. He may still be able to bring a lawsuit against the dealer, but not under his states lemon law.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       06-05-2013, 8:48 PM Reply   
Caveat Emptor... You bought a used boat and didn't do a leak down or compression test. Did you look at the oil? What about the transmission fluid?

I've kicked some tires on two boats this past week... I checked the fluids to see what they looked like. Sounds like this boat never had an oil change for a few years. Probably was never broken in properly. Used, abused, old gas, probably improper fuel grade... Your cylinder problems could be ethanol issues?

I'm personally over the theatrics. I've seen too many posts similar to these that just don't seem to make sense. I'm sorry your good deal purchase that was a repo didn't work out and that the dealer sucks. But ready to quit the sport, ready to never go to the river again? Grow up.
Old    Mikeski (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       06-06-2013, 12:16 AM Reply   
Used auction boats... Lots of dealers making more money off these than they would make selling new boats. Most of what I read in your thread should have been discovered by any decent mechanic. Shame on the dealer, sounds like they may not have even put it on a fake-a-lake and ran the motor much less the preferred water check out. They may not even have checked out the fluid levels? In reality these boats are quite simple machines with a few vulnerable parts.

Just out of curiosity is it a PCM, Indmar or Mercruiser powerplant? I might guess Indmar. Your best recourse might be a nicely written "please help me" letter to the powerplant manufacturer instead of the boat builder. None of what I read has much to do with anything other than the powerplant that is only dropped into place by the boat builder. So the Malibu is better than MB part of this discussion is pretty far off base.

I would have long ago erased that dealer from my memory and hired a good mechanic if I didn't have the skills myself.

Last edited by mikeski; 06-06-2013 at 12:19 AM.
Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       06-06-2013, 2:47 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeski View Post
1Just out of curiosity is it a PCM, Indmar or Mercruiser powerplant? I might guess Indmar.
MB didn't start using Indmar until recently. I believe that era is rocking a PCM motor.
Old     (CarZin)      Join Date: Feb 2011       06-06-2013, 6:21 AM Reply   
Quote:
MB didn't start using Indmar until recently. I believe that era is rocking a PCM motor.
Not according to my searches. I just looked at a few Malibu 2008 on inboardsonly and they were 'sporting' Indmars.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       06-06-2013, 6:54 AM Reply   
The Op's boat is an MB not a Malibu. Right?
Old    Jason Buffalow (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       06-06-2013, 7:04 AM Reply   
I had almost the identical story. I bought the first real wakeboard boat Tige made back in '95 or '96. A stack of small issue day one. Dealer #1 goes out of business, get another dealer who is going to handle. Round and round never gets fixed, he goes out of business. Than the local big shop in town takes over. We go round and round with same scenario. In the mean time I think we lost 3 years of productive boat usage. I finally get ahold of Charlie Pigeon from tige directly. They pay to shop boat to Texas and replace upholstery/wiring/gauges and just about everything else on the boat. It cam back beautiful. I was diligent and persistence and never screamed, thought about the law suits and such and just could bring my self to do it. In the end TiGe did a great job for me.

Overall these boat companies are boat companies, they are not mercedes or porsh dealerships that go through rigorous training and certification programs. In many cases these dealerships are mom and pop shops that have one or two average technicians and no real specialist.
Old    Ian Brown (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       06-06-2013, 7:09 AM Reply   
it's an MB, not a Malibu. Engine is most likely the ZR6 PCM 390hp
Old    Mike (zimme)      Join Date: Feb 2013       06-06-2013, 7:19 AM Reply   
This sounds more like a lack of due diligence upon purchase and getting a crappy MB product than it does a problem with the dealer. The mat shouldn't ever take that long, but it's pretty standard to be without your boat for extended periods of time during boating season if you take it to a shop. They gave you a warranty you didn't ask for or decide to purchase at the time of the boat purchase (which I'm sure they offer, because what company DOESNT try to sell everything during the financing process?)

To me this seems you bought a shoddy MB product. It happens with every manufacturer. Can't put all the blame here on the dealer. I'd sell it with the bad motor, hope you're not upside down on the loan, cut my losses and buy a new boat that doesn't come from MB sports. Get out and enjoy the water, there are plenty of used boats out there that will give you hours of issue free boating.

Who knows, maybe the previous owner let this one go to repo because they had all sorts of issues with it too for the first 4 years of its life (which would explain the low hours). Instead of dealing with selling it to another person, they just let the bank have it. By the condition of the boat, it doesn't sound like it was abused, it just sounds like the powerplant was put together on a friday afternoon at 4:00. Sorry for your troubles Stephen, but don't give up on the fun that boating SHOULD allow you to enjoy.
Old    Tim C (lifetimewarranty)      Join Date: Oct 2008       06-06-2013, 7:59 AM Reply   
^^^^^^^^^^what he said^^^^^^^^^^^


not to hijack...but a friend of my dads bought the very first Vrod to arrive in Santa barbara. Turns out the yahoo's that work there decided to flog the thing since nobody had ever even seen or ridden one. They never broke the engine in properly. Just did numerous "hot laps" up and down the street and I heard years later about it as one of them was bragging about it.

Well, after abusing it for a few weeks they allowed him to take it home and he BABIED the thing, did what he thought was the normal break in stuff and the engine blew (or died...not sure exactly) with very little use on his part. I believe the SB harley shop rebuilt the motor under warranty. It has been solid ever since but you tell me if those knuckle heads built it as good as they did at the factory...

Those 25 hours could be some seriously abusive hours. When I was test driving boats the local malibu salesguy was the most radical and awesome guy to test a boat with...but if the boat was brand new (not broken in) and he drove them like this they would be jacked. He'd do full throttle powerturns, donuts, etc, etc...fun, and educational when seriously looking at what a boat can do...but pretty hard on the things if they aren't broken in.



I think MB is at fault here.
Old     (CarZin)      Join Date: Feb 2011       06-06-2013, 8:06 AM Reply   
Quote:
it's an MB, not a Malibu. Engine is most likely the ZR6 PCM 390hp
Yup. My bad.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       06-06-2013, 8:12 AM Reply   
Another thought is what if the original owner fragged the boat when he knew it was getting repossessed? Some people are pretty vengeful and I was very surprised to what scornful owners did to houses that were foreclosed. We looked at a bunch of them. Some people blame the bank and will do what ever they can to trash the item, because in their mind they are hurting the banks. In this case maybe they just hurt the next owner.
Old    Chris Dirty (Dmac420sj)      Join Date: Mar 2012       06-06-2013, 8:20 AM Reply   
Dude you need to quit posting this stiff and go sink that birch and get your money!
Old    Tim C (lifetimewarranty)      Join Date: Oct 2008       06-06-2013, 9:18 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmac420sj View Post
Dude you need to quit posting this stiff and go sink that birch and get your money!
LOL...WOW.

Boardman...good call.
Old    Jason Buffalow (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       06-06-2013, 9:29 AM Reply   
Does MB make the motor or transmission? I think not.

Also there is no way to know what happened the first 4 years. Maybe no maintenance was done or maybe it was bad, but either way it is unknown.

Could look to sell it and be honest about it. Maybe you find a guy that is a mechanic and does not mind working on it for a great boat.
Old    Steven (sadams905)      Join Date: Jun 2013       06-06-2013, 11:35 AM Reply   
Thanks everyone for the various comments and feedback.

PCM 5.7 liter motor. ZF transmission.

The story has taken some strange turns in just the past couple of hours. I'm not going to get in to details because I still don't understand everything myself. But it appears that the motor experienced a complete failure when it was brand new (first time in the water, first time started) and had to be completely rebuilt. How the boat was bought/sold, condition at the time, whether or not it was new or slightly used, etc. is still a mystery to me, but I'm digging.

As for using it or selling it, I'll use this analogy:

Let's say you have a roommate. One day your roommate steals your watch. You catch them and they apologize and return it. Two weeks later they snake $100 off your dresser. You catch them. Apology & return. A month later they steal your iPod. Same resolution. At what point do you no longer trust them and boot them out of your house. You need a roommate. You want a roommate. You even like your roommate. But there's no way you will ever trust them again. And you're so angry you can't stand to look at them. So it's time for them to go, but you can't afford the mortgage without their rent. What do you do?

Now, let's say that same roommie owes you $10,000 and they plan to pay you back in 6 months. If you kick them out, they'll disappear and you'll never see your money. Are you willing to walk away from $10,000? I'm not. I can't afford it.

And while I may be able to find a sucker willing to but this piece of crap boat, there is no way I can get anywhere near the amount I owe on it. I won't sell it without full disclosure. Would you pay a premium for a boat that's experienced all this trouble? I wouldn't.

I figure I'll lose at least $10-15k. No way I can afford that. Easy to say buyer beware until you're the one that has to eat a $15,000 s%&t sandwich.
Old    SS (illini88)      Join Date: Oct 2007       06-06-2013, 12:03 PM Reply   
The issue that the dealership could have on this particular scenario is that the boat was represented as having undergone a complete mechanical inspection. That being said, the trans issues probably wouldn't have shown up, even with a thorough valuation. It sounds to me, like this thing just sat, which could be for a variety of reasons. I don't see how this is an MB issue. It sounds like it is a previous owner maintenance issue. I'd have said faulty motor, but given that the trans went too, it looks like neglect.
Old    Bruizza (bruizza)      Join Date: May 2009       06-06-2013, 12:48 PM Reply   
If the engine failed the very first time the boat was ever put on the water the engine should have been 100% replaced not rebuilt. We had a boat with an engine that failed with 2.5 hours on the clock. Engine was replaced immediately not rebuilt. We had a boat with 250 hours on it that then engine failed on. Engine was replaced immediately not rebuilt. Both under warranty. 2 different engine manufacturers including PCM.

Didn't they give you an engine/drive train warranty? Will this not cover a new engine being put in? I can tell you from my experience with the boat with 250 hours that the engine needed replacing on one small problem (harmonic balancer being slightly off) caused a TON of other small issues that created many a headaches. Once the entire engine was replaced the boat ran like a champ.
Old    Onthe Creek (onthecreek)      Join Date: Apr 2013       06-06-2013, 1:17 PM Reply   
you can't take the loss on re-sale (not that anybody would)...you're married to it.

get the engine fixed and work the bugs out. don't run off for a big holiday weekend. start small and local- build confidence that it's reliable. then move on and enjoy it as originally planned.

the boat isn't like your thieving roommate analogy. it's more like a neglected dog that just needs the right care to be your best friend.
Old    Steven (sadams905)      Join Date: Jun 2013       06-06-2013, 1:40 PM Reply   
That dog has bitten me one too many times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by onthecreek View Post
you can't take the loss on re-sale (not that anybody would)...you're married to it.

get the engine fixed and work the bugs out. don't run off for a big holiday weekend. start small and local- build confidence that it's reliable. then move on and enjoy it as originally planned.

the boat isn't like your thieving roommate analogy. it's more like a neglected dog that just needs the right care to be your best friend.
Old     (CarZin)      Join Date: Feb 2011       06-06-2013, 1:44 PM Reply   
Yeah, getting a rebuilt engine after a failure on a new boat is NOT acceptable. I had a leaky transmission on my new Enzo that resulted in the transmission making a grinding noise. The dealer called PCM on Monday, and I had a brand new transmission installed by Thursday. Not rebuilt. I would have been pissed with a rebuilt.
Old    Eric Scott (phillywakeboarder)      Join Date: Sep 2008       06-06-2013, 3:30 PM Reply   
I'm with those who say keep it. It may seem impossible at this point, but a boat that's been seriously neglected can be brought back to life and enjoyed for years. I purchased a 99 x star in 2005 that had 400 hours on it. I bought it on ebay without ever seeing it or having it checked by a mechanic, and spent the next 3 years being towed back to the dock. Virtually everything either broke or malfunctioned on this boat - the fuel pump, the water pump, the alternator, the engine wiring harness (two,if I remember correctly), the serpentine belt, the ECM, various ECM sensors (FYI, if your boat doesn't want to start when it's hot, it's probably either the ECT sensor or the little plug that plugs into the ECT sensor), the tachometer, the heater, and probably a few things I'm forgetting. The trailer was a mess as well - the tires blew, the bearings burned, the lights flickered, and the brakes locked up and cooked themselves to death. But, once I got everything sorted, aside from knowing way more about 99 x stars than I ever wanted (and how to drive from Orlando to Philly with no trailer brakes), I was left with a boat that, in its own lost dog finds a home kinda way, is kinda endearing, and that has given me 700 essentially trouble-free hours the past 4 seasons. So . . . I say keep the boat. PCM makes good motors and MB makes good boats and in the right hands that sucker will pull riders for the next decade.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       06-07-2013, 10:07 AM Reply   
Man it probably doesn't help that you have a big drive to use the boat and can't water test easily.

You are going to get hosed one way or the other, but dollar for dollar, the boat is worth more running, even considering the cost of engine replacement, than it is as a project boat. So you need to replace the motor. Doesn't the warranty cover that?
Old    Steven (sadams905)      Join Date: Jun 2013       06-07-2013, 10:45 AM Reply   
Whether or not the warranty covers it remains to be seen. It depends entirely upon what caused the failure. And that hasn't been determined yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Man it probably doesn't help that you have a big drive to use the boat and can't water test easily.

You are going to get hosed one way or the other, but dollar for dollar, the boat is worth more running, even considering the cost of engine replacement, than it is as a project boat. So you need to replace the motor. Doesn't the warranty cover that?
Old    Steven (sadams905)      Join Date: Jun 2013       06-13-2013, 8:48 AM Reply   
I'm convinced. I've heard enough from enough people to decide that you're right. We are pursuing legal action.

I grew up in a small business environment. My parents owned a small, independent motorcycle shop for most of my life. So protecting the small business owner has always been at the core of my being. But even my dad said it's time to get a lawyer. So...

Thanks for the feedback.

Quote:
Originally Posted by will5150 View Post
Dude- Wake up , Suck it up and SUE! if 1/2 of this post is remotely true, you are well within your rights to sue and win. Enough with your mamby-pamby "i don't sue people" routine. The law is there to protect you and all consumers from this kind of abuse. Keep in mind, if you decide not to sue, you're just enabling bad behavior- which in my book is worse.

Your court cost will get covered and you'll be riding around in a new boat soon. Lawyer UP!!
Old    Greg C (v220ls)      Join Date: Aug 2004       06-13-2013, 9:29 AM Reply   
Lemon Laws due apply to boats. My good friend had his X-10 bought back for the hull half's leaking. They do not apply to used anything. If it had a 30 day warranty and they did internal work on the engine, at worst case if they saw other components worn I.E. valves or cylinder wear they should have advised you and provided you a discounted estimate while it was apart! Warranties will only pay breakage not what they would term "betterment" meaning if it isn't broken they wont pay! Granted still a bad deal, they should have stepped up and fixed the other valves or just redone the heads completely (esp) considering the problems you have had. Everyone is right you need to get legal action going on this, or fix the boat and sell it? I think you have a strong suit for misrepresenting the condition of the boat and for not honoring the terms of the powertrain warranty.
P.S. all consumer good over $500.00 in CA have a warranty like it or not, it is the dealers/ sellers responsibility to have the purchaser sign off on a (no implied or written warranty) but that still may or may not protect them, based on the problems.
Old    Anthonyv911 (tonyv420)      Join Date: Jul 2007       06-13-2013, 9:50 AM Reply   
SUE THOSE SUCKAS!!!! A few years back, a friend had a Centurion T-5 he bought from Cope & McPheters which constantly had vapor lock issues. They told him put a vent in the engine cover. That wasn't good enough for him, he asked them to buy the boat back, they said no, he got a lawyer and threatened them, and needless to say, they bought the boat back at the price he paid and he got a new one. He's been happy since!!

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