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Old    Jim Aikins (HSE)      Join Date: Mar 2010       02-13-2013, 6:53 PM Reply   
I purchased some used gear from a fellow WW'er and exchanged texts back and forth discussing the condition etc of the three items I was interested in. Two were described as fully functional and the remaining needed minor repair. I sent payment of $450 via PayPal and the items were shipped once the transaction cleared. Items were $400 so the $50 was for fees and shipping. When the package arrived the three items of interest along with some miscellaneous gear which was thrown in at his discretion, none of which I needed. When I inspected the items of interest I was disappointed in the fact that two needed repair. I sent a text regarding this and the response was "Crap! Sorry man... I thought the other was fine." The third one was used at a later date weather permitting and it also had issues making it not practical to use without repair. I sent a text regarding my frustration and disappointment and his response was "Sorry, but I swear the last time I used it, it was perfect... it's been sitting in storage that last few months." I expressed my concerns, asked about returning the items, refunding half to cover repairs etc. and last response received was "Sorry no. It was in excellent condition when I used it last... and it was only used a handful of times."

I am not one to slander someones integrity and reputation so at this point I've kept it anonymous but I am also wondering what others would do in this situation? I bought these as extras to have on the boat for other riders and a back up to an old one I have. At this point it has been a waste of money. I know having owned my own business and selling products in this industry I always did my best to have a happy customer.
Old    L W (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       02-13-2013, 7:10 PM Reply   
If you are talking about Dry Suits, then thats a tough one. I would never buy a dry suit used and expect it to be perfect. Either buy new or plan to have to replace the seals on a used one.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       02-14-2013, 4:08 AM Reply   
I would guess Audio Equipment.Which is always risky when buying used.Blow the whistle,if it still works!
Old    William Burell (williamburell)      Join Date: Sep 2011       02-14-2013, 6:21 AM Reply   
pics or it didn't happen. But seriously point of this thread? No one even knows what the product is
Old    Mattgettel (mattgettel)      Join Date: Jan 2009       02-14-2013, 6:27 AM Reply   
I'm going with the dry suit guess too. While I wouldn't buy one used and expect perfection, I do expect people to be honest. If he said it was good to go I would expect it to be truly good to go. I would leave this on here for a few days then post the detail. If there is someone on here selling lies I damn sure don't want to buy any.
Old    William Burell (williamburell)      Join Date: Sep 2011       02-14-2013, 6:30 AM Reply   
^ditto. I've been lucky and everyone I've dealt with has been straight up. I say air it out and help protect others.
Old    Jim Aikins (HSE)      Join Date: Mar 2010       02-14-2013, 8:07 AM Reply   
It was three O'Neill dry suits, two had visibly torn seals, one on the wrist and one on the ankle 2-3" long tears. The third has leaks in the seam in the crotch, when I finished my ride I was drenched from the waist down.
Old    Justin Harrelson (skiboarder)      Join Date: Oct 2006       02-14-2013, 8:36 AM Reply   
I took my drysuit out of the closet after being stored indoors all year a few weeks ago. It had been used 3 times total and a wrist seal was nasty and gooy. If I had sold you mine, I would have said the same thing.

Years ago I bought a used drysuit online...not a great used item in general. I would never do it again, but I wouldn't blame the seller.
Old    DRA-Doug (load)      Join Date: Jul 2003       02-14-2013, 8:37 AM Reply   
Dispute it with Paypal, take photos to back it up and use the email, and texts too.
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       02-14-2013, 9:05 AM Reply   
Bottom line. If your selling somting and you say it works, It better work when it arrives at that persons door or IMO you should get your money back.
IF the person is selling a Item and he is selling it in a Un knowen condition or At your own risk condition then he is sort of off the hook or at his disecretion weather to retun it or not.

Kind of like e-bay, NEW= Like new. Used= Works but not new. Unknown=May or may not work bets to be used for parts.

Jim do you have a copy of the add you can post? It would be good to know how the items were advertised.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       02-14-2013, 9:17 AM Reply   
im almost positive i found the ad. but thats for the OP to post
Old    L W (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       02-14-2013, 9:31 AM Reply   
I was going to buy those dry suits! Glad I didn't......
Old    Adam Balon (adam_balon)      Join Date: Jul 2003       02-14-2013, 9:39 AM Reply   
agreed you deserve your $$$$ back. has he responded since you posted in the forum?paypal will 100% side with you on this as long as you have documentation regarding all conversation and the transaction.

if they needed repair, they should have been sold as "drysuits needing repair"
Old    F1F-Joel (deltarida)      Join Date: Dec 2009       02-26-2013, 8:09 AM Reply   
Use Paypal to your advantage. If this person selling these items has any class they should return all your $$$, no questions asked.
Old    Bill S (93rx7)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-04-2013, 10:37 AM Reply   
open up a paypal dispute. if the seller misrepresented the items you should get your money back.
Old    Jim Aikins (HSE)      Join Date: Mar 2010       03-04-2013, 7:30 PM Reply   
I tried to do a dispute with PayPal, but it has been over 45 days since the transaction so no luck there... I bought it before Christmas and didn't ride them until last month. I will contact him one more time letting him know I will disclose all messages info etc on WW and see if he responds. Thanks for the support in that I am not over reacting..
Old    Jim Aikins (HSE)      Join Date: Mar 2010       03-07-2013, 2:43 PM Reply   
Here's some pics of the three suits with issues, torn wrist seal on one, torn ankle seal on the next, and stains where leaking on crotch on the newest with intact seals.
http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/attac...1&d=1362695938

Joe has not responded so beware of buying from him!
Attached Images
              
Old    Spencer Coon (spencercoon)      Join Date: Mar 2011       03-07-2013, 9:21 PM Reply   
Dang Joe, is it really worth the $450.00???
Old    Andy Graham (ottog1979)      Join Date: Apr 2007       03-08-2013, 8:51 AM Reply   
Excellent condition when "I used last" vs. excellent condition when shipped are two different things.
Old    Dave (bcrider)      Join Date: Apr 2006       03-08-2013, 8:53 AM Reply   
Last year I put my drysuit away for the year with a ripped neck seal that I blew out. If I was to sell it this year without having looked at it I would have gone to a person with 2 bad wrists that dried out over the winter as well.....not that it would have happened. Not sure how you would not give them a once over before sending them out. I can see if a seal dried but a seam doesn't just let go from sitting around. I have now decided for the couple times a year I use mine in the beginning of the season that they are the biggest PITA! It doesn't help that mine gets shared a lot as well. I would agree that you should be getting your money back and return all the gear or at least some of it back to cover your repairs.
Old    Stuey (stuey)      Join Date: Dec 2004       03-08-2013, 8:55 AM Reply   
Wow, brutal. Did you happen to use your credit card to pay through Paypal? If so you can call your credit card company directly, usually they have a longer dispute period.

The bright side is seals can be replaced and fixed.. downside is that costs money. I would think a full refund is in order, but at the very least, pay the repair bill
Old    Brad Walker (humboldt9)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-08-2013, 9:28 AM Reply   
Classic case of caveat emptor. Man that sucks! Just curious I don't have experience with dry suits are those issues fixable and how much? If he wasn't willing to even respond to half a refund I doubt there'll be a check in the mail anytime soon to help with the cost of fixing. Sorry for the loss...
Old    Dave (bcrider)      Join Date: Apr 2006       03-08-2013, 9:53 AM Reply   
Getting mine done at this moment:

Neck seal Latex: $67
or
Neck seak Neoprene: $ 90
Wrist seal latex: $40 ( pair)
plus shipping
Old    Andy Graham (ottog1979)      Join Date: Apr 2007       03-08-2013, 11:07 AM Reply   
Want some help with this Joe? I mean this earnestly. It's really not hard:

"I screwed up (and for a while it was hard to admit that). The suits really were working great last time I used them. But, I was going fast and didn't really check them well before shipping them out. I've been really busy of late, so sorry for my lack of response. How about you either get the two suits fixed and I'll send you the amount or send the whole bunch back and I'll return the $450. Let me know what you want to do."

That's it. Doesn't even have to be done publicly on WW. Just make it right or do your best to make it right and almost everyone/anyone is willing to forgive. Be a Tyler Hamilton, not a Lance Armstrong. Again, I'm being completely sincere.
Old    alan plotz (alanp)      Join Date: Apr 2001       03-08-2013, 8:51 PM Reply   
good response andy. further jim is about the nicest dude youre gonna meet.
Old    Jeremy Byrom (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       03-09-2013, 10:16 AM Reply   
I haven't seen Joe Umali on these forums for a while and was thinking about that fact about a few months ago. He used to be spotted every day pretty much, but it seems like that changed about 1-2 years ago.... I think it kinda correlated with the time of his beloved favorite wakeboard, the LF Shane going to a flex core....

Haha, could't help the tease, Joe

"prominent WW'er.. ha, almost like WW legend
wonder if Joe Umali still has the most posts on WW?

anyway, Joe had this sort of pride (for a lack of a better word) about him that i think you either hated or loved, and maybe depending on the moment. The guy sure knew his stuff and had a way with words and always called it as he saw it (including calling me out on on a thing or two i deserved), but that same sort of pride made admitting being wrong a rare occurrence.

Last edited by wakerider111; 03-09-2013 at 10:19 AM.
Old    Jeremy Byrom (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       03-09-2013, 10:23 AM Reply   
I was just remembering this old thread. Joe is about the only WW'er to get a thread
http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=543390
Old    Andy Graham (ottog1979)      Join Date: Apr 2007       03-09-2013, 10:36 AM Reply   
The profile Personal Quotes are sort of ironic.
Old    Sinko (sinkoumn)      Join Date: Jan 2007       03-09-2013, 2:07 PM Reply   
Quit picking on Umali u guys....

Seriously though, that is a complete bulls%$t dick move and you should absolutely be refunded your money. If not, I REALLY hope Joe needed that money; f'ing ponderous
Old    Hey, You scratched my anchor! (bftskir)      Join Date: Jan 2004       03-10-2013, 11:39 AM Reply   
Sounds like Joe sold some rotten drysuits and made them sound a little better than they were.

Let's just be clear about drysuits.
If you buy one that has been used and is more than 12 months old EXPECT it to LEAK. Expect to replace ALL seals.
Seals age quickly, you can have an unused drysuit that has been stored and the seals will be shot, rotted, cracking, ready to tear.
You can use seal saver to condition them to make them last. I have a Barefoot International drysuit that I used more than 200+ times over a 10 year period...one of the seals finally tore because I let someone else use it who did not know how to carefully remove the seals. I just got a new one.

These suits do not last forever. BI has the thickest, toughest, seals. The seams will leak, the material will get pin holes, water gets in.

Dry suits are really misnamed, they should be called Mostly-Dry Suits because that's the reality.

I hope Joe does the right thing and refunds your money.


Oh and just because you were wet at the crotch does not mean that's necessarily where the water came in...
Old    Spencer Coon (spencercoon)      Join Date: Mar 2011       03-10-2013, 5:15 PM Reply   
[QUOTE=Oh and just because you were wet at the crotch does not mean that's necessarily where the water came in...[/QUOTE]

True statement.
Old     (will5150)      Join Date: Oct 2002       03-11-2013, 8:34 AM Reply   
Where's Joe on this? Can't believe he's letting this happen on WW. He's been on this site for a LONG TIME. Your word is worth more than $450 dude- i hope you do the right thing.
Old    Jason Buffalow (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       03-11-2013, 9:16 AM Reply   
Joe spends a ton of time of FB, so we may all have to turn there to respond. I am really surprised at the lack of responsibility on his part. i have always held Joe in a high regard.
Old    Tim (srock)      Join Date: Mar 2002       03-11-2013, 10:42 AM Reply   
Lets form a posse boys we ride out in the morning! I think a refund is due and at a min he should refund the cost of repairs.
Old    Train (ttrigo)      Join Date: Dec 2004       03-11-2013, 7:19 PM Reply   
I feel like if this was a less prominent member, we would have had a hundred posts by now.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       03-11-2013, 7:25 PM Reply   
Silence is deafening train. If Joe wasn't wrong his boys would be defending him... Instead... Silence... Extreme silence
Old    Adam Van Dyke (lfadam)      Join Date: Nov 2008       03-11-2013, 7:31 PM Reply   
I'm surprised how often you guys are having seal ripping problems. I had an O'Neill drysuit before my current one and it had neoprene seals. I don't see how those would rip easily at all, but I hated them. Not tight enough/always leaked (especially on crashes). My new drysuit (well 4 years old now) is a Bare Ultra. It has latex seals and I definitely prefer them. Harder to get on and off but they seal perfectly without being tight/uncomfortable. I can definitely see how they would rip but I put on seal saver like once a year the first two years and haven't had a problem at all with it. 4 years old now. I just store it hanging in my closet. Maybe that's the trick, storing in an outdoor location may lead to temp/humidity change that kills them. Bare Ultra is a great drysuit btw. Never leaked a drop.
Old    PAUL (pnichols)      Join Date: Jan 2007       03-13-2013, 1:12 PM Reply   
I wonder if his dad still posts on WW. I remember a few years ago Umali Sr posted in a few threads. Maybe he could let Joe Jr know about this thread.
Old    Shredtastic (seth)      Join Date: Sep 2002       03-14-2013, 3:32 PM Reply   
Maybe Cire will pull his namesake boardshorts!! Does not surprise me, guy always seemed like a punk from his posts on here.
Old    RileyBangerter (steezyshots)      Join Date: Feb 2008       03-14-2013, 4:22 PM Reply   
Can't say that I am surprised...
Old    Hey, You scratched my anchor! (bftskir)      Join Date: Jan 2004       03-14-2013, 4:42 PM Reply   
funny thing is a $200 check would have eliminated this.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       03-15-2013, 6:14 AM Reply   
Maybe this thread title should be updated, or a new thread started.
Old    CIREboardshorts.com (nuckledragger)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-15-2013, 10:16 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by seth View Post
Maybe Cire will pull his namesake boardshorts!! Does not surprise me, guy always seemed like a punk from his posts on here.
We don't know the whole story so we won't comment on that.

Maybe there is some bad JuJu around the namesake and that is why we have some left over. There is not a pair in the line for 2013.
Old    Jonathan Bay (john211)      Join Date: Aug 2008       03-15-2013, 12:42 PM Reply   
prominent ^^^

he became prominent, be that as it may, with 12 thousand gems like these.

http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=787054
Old    Jim Aikins (HSE)      Join Date: Mar 2010       03-17-2013, 4:46 PM Reply   
Thanks for all the comments, Joe did ask for my email a while back 3/8 but no communication since then and no action as of yet. Not sure if he has seen this post, but I would imagine somebody has made him aware of it. Overall just a disappointment..
Old    RileyBangerter (steezyshots)      Join Date: Feb 2008       03-21-2013, 1:02 PM Reply   
Any word from the con artist?
Old    Jim Aikins (HSE)      Join Date: Mar 2010       03-22-2013, 11:25 AM Reply   
Haven't heard a thing from Joe since he asked for email address a couple weeks ago. I guess he doesn't value his reputation in the wake community.
Old    Adam Balon (adam_balon)      Join Date: Jul 2003       03-23-2013, 12:17 AM Reply   
brutal. why blacklist yourself...... silly joe.
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-23-2013, 8:27 AM Reply   
Lame: I hope you can get your money back. For all these people defending Joe why don't you contact him and see if you can help out. it would be nice if we could all watch out for each other here. Jim is no stranger here and has helped out many people in the wake community. I would hate to think some one like Joe could can burn Jim and not get called on the carpet and made to come correct.

Jim I say you use your connections in the Special Forces community to track him down. It shouldn't be to hard to track him down. Just look for the Asian guy with a camera in one hand and a cigratette in the other with some little dogs running around and you have found your man
Old    Train (ttrigo)      Join Date: Dec 2004       04-08-2013, 8:42 AM Reply   
Still not resolved?
Old    RileyBangerter (steezyshots)      Join Date: Feb 2008       04-08-2013, 8:47 AM Reply   
Joe has always been a pretty big douche. Bummer you still haven't heard from him
Old    Jo Shmoe (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       04-08-2013, 12:41 PM Reply   
Hey Joe, Karma is a BITCH!, watch out! Don't stand next to Joe for a while.
Old     (Bam6961)      Join Date: Apr 2011       04-09-2013, 9:46 AM Reply   
Dude you got a good deal, i dont know why you are complaining, a new suit costs 400+ you got three of them for that much. He told you that two of them are unusable and the one that should be good ended up having a leak. since that leak is on a seam i sure you can just duck tape it. So basically your complaining about 1 drysuit, that was misrepresented. I dont even know joe, but it seems like your making a bigger deal than it is. I guess maybe he should have given you $50 back for the seam, but thats what happens when you buy used.

Last edited by Bam6961; 04-09-2013 at 9:56 AM.
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       04-09-2013, 10:31 AM Reply   
"Two were described as fully functional and the remaining needed minor repair."

The items were misrepresented, none of them are fully functional. What story were you reading Bam? Joe never told him that two of them were unuseable, he said they were perfect, and then they weren't. You're on another planet right now.
Old     (Bam6961)      Join Date: Apr 2011       04-09-2013, 12:09 PM Reply   
My bad totally read the text wrong, thought it said unusable, Haha must have been on another planet! Still not that bad of a deal though
Old     (Bam6961)      Join Date: Apr 2011       04-09-2013, 12:43 PM Reply   
Although he should have given you at least $100-150 back, sorry for calling you out.
Old    Steven Hahn (solo)      Join Date: Oct 2001       04-09-2013, 1:26 PM Reply   
Not surprised. I wrote Umali off over a year ago. I don't have time for narcissistic people in my life. After 12 years knowing that dude he's only out for himself. I wouldn't count on ever seeing that money again. Typical Joe.
Old    Train (ttrigo)      Join Date: Dec 2004       04-09-2013, 1:28 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by solo View Post
Not surprised. I wrote Umali off over a year ago. I don't have time for narcissistic people in my life. After 12 years knowing that dude he's only out for himself. I wouldn't count on ever seeing that money again. Typical Joe.
Wow. Last person I'd expect to hear that from.
Old    DC (durty_curt)      Join Date: Apr 2008       04-09-2013, 4:43 PM Reply   
I Can't Even Remember The last time I Saw Hahn post on Ww. I Don't Know if You Know But He's Kind Of A Big deal Here
Old    Spencer Coon (spencercoon)      Join Date: Mar 2011       04-09-2013, 4:57 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by durty_curt View Post
I Can't Even Remember The last time I Saw Hahn post on Ww. I Don't Know if You Know But He's Kind Of A Big deal Here
Whats with all the random caps?
Old    DC (durty_curt)      Join Date: Apr 2008       04-09-2013, 10:42 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by spencercoon View Post
Whats with all the random caps?
Ever Since I Got This New Os Update On My Motorola Droid RAZR, Writing Anything Online Blows. For Some Reason I Know Have To Carefully Right My posts And Also It Randomly capitalizes Words. I Went From posting As Fast As I Could text Message, To TextIng As If Im Using A Rotary Phone
Old    Steven Hahn (solo)      Join Date: Oct 2001       04-10-2013, 9:28 AM Reply   
Kind of a big deal? Are you calling me fat? Lol!
Old    RileyBangerter (steezyshots)      Join Date: Feb 2008       04-11-2013, 9:21 AM Reply   
No Steven he is saying you have many leather bound books, and your house smells of rich mahogany! LOL
Old    Jim Aikins (HSE)      Join Date: Mar 2010       04-29-2013, 1:19 PM Reply   
The latest update, still no response from Joe so I decided to send all the suits to Oneill for repair. I have not gotten them back, but once they are all repaired I was thinking on selling a couple to help offset the cost of the whole situation. It anyone is interested, let me know and I can take pics when I get them back. I was thinking $175 each. Dave if this is breaking the selling rules, then sorry about that, just let me know and delete this part of the post.
Thanks,
Jim
Old    RileyBangerter (steezyshots)      Join Date: Feb 2008       04-29-2013, 1:21 PM Reply   
That sucks, someone needs to give Joe a swift kick in the nuts!
Old    Jim Aikins (HSE)      Join Date: Mar 2010       05-04-2013, 8:25 AM Reply   
http://wwhttp://www.wakeworld.com/fo...1&d=1367680743

Here's the two suits that I just got back from O'Neill repair facility, they have had seals replaced as needed and leak tested.

If anyone is interested in either or both let me know..

Thanks,
Jim
Attached Images
  
Old    Andy Graham (ottog1979)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-04-2013, 9:07 AM Reply   
Hmmm... Size again? I'm 5'10", 160lbs.
Old    Jim Aikins (HSE)      Join Date: Mar 2010       05-04-2013, 9:24 AM Reply   
The gray/black is a M and the all black is a S. I think the M would be a good fit..
Old    Jim Aikins (HSE)      Join Date: Mar 2010       05-13-2013, 2:36 PM Reply   
The medium suit is sold and the all black small is still available for $175, PM me if interested.
Thanks,
Jim
Old    Andy Graham (ottog1979)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-13-2013, 2:41 PM Reply   
Thanks Jim!
Old    Jason Buffalow (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-13-2013, 6:56 PM Reply   
Can I squeeze into a small
Old    Jason Buffalow (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-13-2013, 6:57 PM Reply   
Can you say ... Big guy in a little dry suit...Rip
Old    Myke D (breakz77)      Join Date: Mar 2003       05-14-2013, 7:58 AM Reply   
Buffalow that would almost be worth buying it to see
Old    Sheldon (Fiveflat)      Join Date: Sep 2010       05-14-2013, 8:35 AM Reply   
Wow Jim tough story. I went through something similar. Not unusable like this, but it was a new item than came entirely wrong... almost 12 months AFTER I paid for it via paypal. A new item was sent out to me again, almost 3 months later and still ENTIRELY wrong. I ended up getting blocked by the seller and no communication from them since.
Old    Train (ttrigo)      Join Date: Dec 2004       05-14-2013, 9:46 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiveflat View Post
Wow Jim tough story. I went through something similar. Not unusable like this, but it was a new item than came entirely wrong... almost 12 months AFTER I paid for it via paypal. A new item was sent out to me again, almost 3 months later and still ENTIRELY wrong. I ended up getting blocked by the seller and no communication from them since.
On this site, or something unrelated? PayPal should have your back. Could be too late, but they are pretty good about protecting buyers and sellers.
Old    Sheldon (Fiveflat)      Join Date: Sep 2010       05-14-2013, 10:03 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttrigo View Post
On this site, or something unrelated? PayPal should have your back. Could be too late, but they are pretty good about protecting buyers and sellers.
Not a seller on WW technically... just similar that paypal couldn't help because I worried too much about being a good customer and waited 12 months to start getting upset over it.
Old    Jim Aikins (HSE)      Join Date: Mar 2010       06-01-2013, 11:37 PM Reply   
Wow, just had to bump it up, it's almost at 9000 reads. Too bad Joe is such a douche.. Oh well, summer is here and no dry suit needed now ;-) Small one is still available if anyone is interested..

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