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Old    CB (cassidyb)      Join Date: Feb 2012       03-15-2013, 8:27 PM Reply   
quick info, been boating my whole life, mostly slalom skiing growing up but have since started boarding and surfing. currently own a 97 prostar 205. it does the job for slalom/boarding/surfing but inst necessarily great at any particular aspect except for the wakeboard wake, and is a huge pain to fill/drain/move ballast.
looking to upgrade to a new boat after this summer. so far the main contenders are a 2013 axis a20/a22 or (used) tige RZR/R20 w/convex vx. looking to be in the $60k price range, and main requirements are completely automated/hidden ballast with the biggest surf wave I can get while still maintaining an ability to slalom (wakeboard wake is not a huge consideration as im very much an intermediate boarder and most offerings out there now will suffice.)
ive been to the dealerships and crawled around the axis and tige, am a huge fan of the axis in almost every aspect except for the dash material, the plastic just seemed "cheap". the bow area seating and chillax seating are awesome, i really like the simple dash and toggles, pnp ballast, basically everything about the boat except for maybe its reputation for not making the biggest surf wave.
the tige was not quite what i was expecting in terms of "higher degree fit and finish", it was better than the axis but not what id expect for an $80k boat, lots of chromed and flaked plastic, just screamed cheesy to me. the tige touch was really cool but i just see that as something else to break. also it was quite a bit more cramped with the narrower beam, most noticeably in the bow. i am probably most impressed with the massive surf wave ive heard this thing is capable of putting out.
i will be demoing all three this summer as soon as the water warms up here in denver but i was wondering if you all have any words of wisdom or a boat i may have missed (ive thought about the mb B52 but i think the wake wont get small enough for decent slalom.) thanks in advance
Old    Tal Cloud (Kingsriver)      Join Date: Aug 2011       03-15-2013, 9:05 PM Reply   
My Sanger 237 with trim tabs makes a great ski wave and massive surf wave depending how you have the boat weighted. Good Luck. MB will have a tough time making a small ski wake becuase of the hull design. Great boat but very deep.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       03-15-2013, 9:08 PM Reply   
Do not get an MB if you plan to slalom ski. It's a deep v hull which means you have zero chance of having a flat-ish wake. I've had two MB's. They are not crossover boats.

I can't speak for the Axis or the Tige. But when I hear "crossover" my mind goes to VTX w/ Diamond Hull. They are easily found for < $60K.

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/20...-VTX-101900490

Old    Art (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       03-15-2013, 9:20 PM Reply   
The boat you have is about 2700# but everything you can surf behind is much heavier, which means you have a much bigger wake to cross skiing. You are going to have a double bump on anything. Generally if you are getting a new boat over 22' it will be pretty heavy for skiing. Try to find a light boat that you can add lost of ballast to. Whatever you look at, make very sure you have or can add a hydraulic adjustable trim tab. This will help to get the boat from the extremes of surfing and skiing.
Test drive thoroughly and you'll find what you want.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       03-15-2013, 9:23 PM Reply   
I immediately thought of the same boat as DBC. Malibu VTX or VLX with diamond hull....

But you asked about Axis and Tige.

I own an A22 and love it. I only wakeboard and the wake is one of the best ever, imo. I have 4000 lbs all hidden and on switches, no fat sacks and pumps for me. However, I do not ski it or surf it, so I am basically worthless to you... so with that said:

Surf- Tige wins
Ski- axis wins

There are some Axis guys with a20's and 22's that have some really great waves, but to achieve them, I think you will need more weight than in the 20 foot Tige. Either boat will have a surfable wave with hidden ballast in the bows and lockers, but for really great waves, you will probably have sacks on the seats and floors in both boats. Equally weighted I think Tige has a better surf wave, based on reputation.

Ski, Axis A20 has the most ski-able wake of the 3 boats, then the A22, then the Tige (based on others observations)

Wakeboard wake. You will have plumbed sacks in all 3 boats for surfing, so with the stock ballast, and additional plumbed in ballast, you will have a huge wake in all 3 boats, the shapes are different and will be preference.

Boat great companies, but you will need to drive them and ride them for yourself.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       03-15-2013, 10:30 PM Reply   
don't get an MB for its ski wake. You will be sorely disappointed.
Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-16-2013, 4:16 AM Reply   
I don't think you will be happy with either of those two choices. Malibu VTX will do exactly what you want to do, especially with the diamond hull.
Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-16-2013, 4:27 AM Reply   
Here is a fairly loaded one with some good stereo upgrades that is within your budget:
http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/...io-boat-67500/
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       03-16-2013, 4:33 AM Reply   
The Tigé Z1 is also a good choice if a traditional bow is okay with you.The Tigé 20 foot boats put out a good recreational slalom wake[it is soft,but more than a bump].The surf waves are awesome.The Axis A22 will have the most room and the best wakeboard wake.The A20 will have a good wakeboard wake and a decent ski wake,but i have never surfed behind one.The secret to the surf wave isn't how clean or long it is,but rather how much push is present the whole length of the wave.That's why everyone is suggesting you demo the boats.The Tigé's will easily have the best surf wave on BOTH sides.If you will be having riders on the dark side that's something to consider.Both are great boats with different strengths.You can't go wrong with either.Good Luck.
Old    James Tiblier (jtiblier123)      Join Date: Jan 2011       03-16-2013, 4:47 AM Reply   
My fiancee really learned her balance and control on a slalom behind the X-Star. When we lived in MS, we could only use one of the boats a day, so often times she would find herself on the wakeboat with a slalom ski (she doesn't wakeboard). I truly believe that she is a better slalom skier because of her days behind the x-star. Now that we are on a lake and can use either one in a day, she always uses the prostar and now she is an awesome skier and looks incredible behind the proper boat.
Point being, it can be done, and it can be done right behind a wake boat.

I grew up skiing competitively. These boats can really tone down their wake in the 32-36 mph hour range. Give it a go with no ballast. I think you will be surprised. The wake is a little bit of a bump, but not much more than a prostar filled with overweight judges.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-16-2013, 5:01 AM Reply   
The a22 can produce a nice surf wave without adding anything over the plug n play bags. That being said, you need to plumb in like 750s in the rear instead of the standard 450 sacs. When researching the a22s ability to make a good wave, please make sure the reviews you read pertain to 2012 or newer boats if you are buying new, because axis redesigned the rear platform in 2012, which did help make it easier to create a great wave. When I get to work on Monday ill post up some pictures. Also, if I'm not mistaken, you can get a ski pilon for the a22 as an option. The vtx also has a pilon, but it's a removable one that's more towards the center of the boat.

Oh, hop on YouTube and search "axis ski". There are videos of people slaloming behind a20s and a22's. btw, where are you located? If you didn't know, I owned two a22s in a row and loved them.

Also, there is tons of information on the forums for axis and tige. The axis forum is www.axiswakeboardboats.com. Robert, what's the URL for the tige forum? I'm on my mobile and I'm about to walk out the door for my 4.5 year olds soccer game.
Old    Dax Jolly (volzalum)      Join Date: May 2009       03-16-2013, 5:35 AM Reply   
Also look at the Centurion 211. It puts out a great slalom/barefoot wake, and with the hidden ballast puts out a good wakeboard wake and acceptable surf wake.
Old    Jordan Leininger (jordanleininger21)      Join Date: Aug 2012       03-16-2013, 6:04 AM Reply   
I was in the same situation last winter. I ended up buying a 2008 Mastercraft X14. Pretty good slalom wake and when weighted it has a great wakeboard wake. The surf wake isnt amazing with only stock ballast but I throw 500 more pounds in fat sacs and it is pretty good. I would recommend the X14 to anyone! But if I did it again I'd get the Mastercraft X14 V-Drive addition. More room and better surf wake. You could easily get a 2008 or 2009 under 60k. I paid just over 50k for my great boat.
Old    SS (illini88)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-16-2013, 6:09 AM Reply   
Mastercraft pushed the X14 as a crossover for a while, and I've spent some time behind a Nautique SV211. I've skied, boarded, and surfed behind the 211, and it did all 3 admirably. Where it struggled was if you started going 2 off or more.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       03-16-2013, 6:22 AM Reply   
If the Tige was that expensive you need a new dealer. I was quoted 46K for an R20 and paid mid 50's for my 2013 RZR. You can easily get into a new Z3 or RZ2 for 80's.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       03-16-2013, 10:57 AM Reply   
If the slalom wake is at all a concern and you are use to a prostar 205 you should stay away from anything with a deeper V. That would include the Tige's, centurions, MB's, etc... The axis will probably be better but that is just based off of hull shape. You really need to figure out how much importance you put on the different activities. Rank by importance ski, wakeboard and surf wakes. Also, some things to consider are do you want a mellow and clean wakeboard wake at slow speeds for begineers(right DBC).

If you want to have a ski wake that is even remotely decent the following boats seem to be the one's to look at would be the VTX with diamond hull and my sleeper pick based on what I have heard the Moomba Outback V(similar fit and finish and quality as axis). I really like the idea of the outback V and can't believe more people don't mention it on wakeworld. They seem to maximize the interior room behind the windshield, have solid crossover performance and a good price. The Outback V is probably the lightest of all the boats and has a fairly flat hull towards the rear. that coupled with the trim tab should give you the ability to attain a fairly decent ski wake. I am not a huge fan of the rear ballast all being above the floor but it means you can swap the bags to surf/enzo style bags or bigger one's to help the surf wake very easily.

VTX diamond hull-good crossover ability and the most plush. Have to buy used if you want on in the 60k range.
VTX wake hull-basically a more plush and much nicer traditional bow Axis A20. Again, have to buy used.
A20-based an hull shape can probably ski somewhat ok but will be good at producing a wakeboard and surf wake.
Outback V-Similar plushness/fit and finish to the Axis, probably better on the ski side. Not sure on surf and wakeboard but would guess it would be right there with the VTX diamond hull in all 3 events. I really wish there was a wakeworld member who owned one of these and would comment on the different wakes.
Old    CB (cassidyb)      Join Date: Feb 2012       03-16-2013, 12:17 PM Reply   
wow, thanks for all the info guys. i have spent countless hours on WW and pretty much every other boat specific forum, and have googled/you tubed pretty much every word combination relating to the above mentioned boats and the respective surf/ski wakes.

@chattwake, you are a big reason i started looking at axis. im familiar with your boat history and how outspoken you are about the axis, if it was good enough for you i can only imagine id be stoked with the boat. i am only looking at 2012-2013's because of the redesigned platform and the hi-flo ballast.

from what ive seen on youtube id set the benchmark for what id like out of a vdrive slalom wake with the vtx/A20. the a22 seems to be about the same size just a little firmer and i think i might be able to live with that.

its hard for me to rank the wake importance because i really do like all three sports. if i had to i might say surf is most important because the level of fun surfing is directly correlated to the size of the wave. i would probably say wakeboard/slalom are a dead tie with the edge going to wakeboard because im the only one in my group of friends that slaloms.

that being said interior room and storage are big considerations. typical crew size is around 6 (i plan on kicking everybody off to slalom) but sometimes we have up to 10 on the boat. i love the wide beam on the axis and really like pickle fork bows.

quick question to whoever was quoted on the R20. what price should i be expecting for an R20 with a mid level engine, biggest ballast package available, no tige tough, convex vs, and a decent stereo?
Old    CB (cassidyb)      Join Date: Feb 2012       03-16-2013, 12:26 PM Reply   
i would also like to reiterate how important automated and hidden ballast is. i do not want to mess with sacs on seats and extra pumps. i want to be able to sit in a chair, flip a switch and be able to go from boarding to surfing to slalom. id want the total fill and total drain times to be in the 5-10 min range.
Old    Chad (chadwick02)      Join Date: Apr 2008       03-16-2013, 1:19 PM Reply   







VTX on a diamond hull for sure!
Surf pic:: full MLS, wedge, and half a dozen people
Ski pics: 34mph light only 2 people in the boat
board pic: 22mph, MLS full, no wedge, 9 people in the boat
No fat sacs or extra wedight (although one sack in locker when surfing makes a big difference if you have a small crew).
Has everything you are looking for: great slalom wake, huge board & surf wake, fit and finish of a high end boat.
Some good reading here:
http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/...-vtx-20-wakes/

Where ya located??
I just happen to know of a really sick one for sale, in your price range too!
http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/...io-boat-67500/
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       03-16-2013, 3:07 PM Reply   
Cassidy, as to the R20. If you went to the 343 hp engine and the surf ballast you should still be able to stay just under 50K. I would install my own stereo in any boat. All the brands charge way too much for their options. Tige comes standard with the good Clarion deck and 4 WS XS-650 in boats.
Old    CB (cassidyb)      Join Date: Feb 2012       03-16-2013, 4:15 PM Reply   
dang, that is not too bad a price on the r20. what are the big differences between the r20 and the rzr. they are the same hulls correct? from the videos ive seen the the r20 and rzr throw a pretty sick surf wave, and i can only imagine that will get better with the convex vx. havent seen any slalom vids with the r20 but from what ive read it sounds like its decent. like i said, as soon as the water warms up i will be demoing the tige and axis.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       03-16-2013, 4:35 PM Reply   
I paid around 55K for my RZR with the standard engine(303) and standard 900 lb ballast. Got a few options: Flex gel, stainless rub rail, swivel racks, cover, bimini, set of Rev8's, and maybe a couple other things. It's cheaper to add to the stereo and ballast yourself than pay for the option. That really goes for any brand. R20 and RZR are same hull. With the convex VX they claim it to be as good as a Z-1 or RZ2 without it.

Differences R20 to RZR. Gel coat, interior vinyl, Tower, racks, tige touch, dash, carpet, gauges, etc. The better vinyl, Alpha Z, and the tige touch are worth it alone. IMO! It was about 8K difference at my dealer.

As for ski wake I know there are guys who ski the R20/RZR and say it's not to bad. I think the VTX is going to have the best ski wake hands down, but there is going to be a considerable price difference. Around 20K I'd venture to say. 3 year old used VTX's are listed for more than I paid for my new 2013. That said I think the Tige will be better than the Axis for skiing. I like the Axis, but my wife didn't like the industrial type styling. So that put it out for us. Tige will have the best surf wave.

If price was the same I'd own a VTX, but since it was 20K more we really like our RZR!!
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       03-17-2013, 9:43 AM Reply   
Vtx is a solid choice for sure. The axis will ski better than the RZR R20. Also te RZR propises at high speeds a ton without wake plate engaged.
I will also agree that I was expecting a bit more of a refined product for the prices my Tige dealer was asking. In my area they just are not worth the prices in my eyes. Again pricing can vary hugely vary by area tho.


I will also throw an X2 or X15 in the mix. While new wont be and option 60k will get you an almost new showroom condition boat in those models if you search for the right one. Since you have a 205 the x2 size wise will similar in length will be double inside that your 205. It's huge for a 20ft'r
The X15 though would be the ideal boat. It's a huge sleeper in the line up always overlooked due to the Xstar but it was their best all around boat in the line up for years.

If you are wanting new check out a Moomba LSV also a great multisport boat. Really flat slalom wakes. Decent surf and wakeboard wakes. With the re design for 2013 the interior is huge deep n plush

Last edited by xstarrider; 03-17-2013 at 9:49 AM.
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       03-17-2013, 10:13 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardman74 View Post
I paid around 55K for my RZR with the standard engine(303) and standard 900 lb ballast. Got a few options: Flex gel, stainless rub rail, swivel racks, cover, bimini, set of Rev8's, and maybe a couple other things. It's cheaper to add to the stereo and ballast yourself than pay for the option. That really goes for any brand. R20 and RZR are same hull. With the convex VX they claim it to be as good as a Z-1 or RZ2 without it.

Differences R20 to RZR. Gel coat, interior vinyl, Tower, racks, tige touch, dash, carpet, gauges, etc. The better vinyl, Alpha Z, and the tige touch are worth it alone. IMO! It was about 8K difference at my dealer.

As for ski wake I know there are guys who ski the R20/RZR and say it's not to bad. I think the VTX is going to have the best ski wake hands down, but there is going to be a considerable price difference. Around 20K I'd venture to say. 3 year old used VTX's are listed for more than I paid for my new 2013. That said I think the Tige will be better than the Axis for skiing. I like the Axis, but my wife didn't like the industrial type styling. So that put it out for us. Tige will have the best surf wave.

If price was the same I'd own a VTX, but since it was 20K more we really like our RZR!!
You got a deal on that RZR. I was going direct to the factory two years ago and still couldn't touch a RZR for that price...

As Swat pointed out, location defines price. The dealer in our area will never sell that low, and as a result usually has plenty of inventory. Swat, you ready for the season yet? Still rocking the OG Xstar? If you ever want to run the river, or just hang out let me know. You were most helpful in my X1 purchase.

As an aside, the X1/205V hull is actually not a bad crossover, but it lacks in the higher end equipment and space of the newer boats. Has anyone mentioned the Nautique 200v? Heard great things about that boat, the only negative I've consistently heard is it's very easy to dunk the nose when loaded up.
Old    Dan (hco)      Join Date: Jun 2006       03-17-2013, 12:01 PM Reply   
X14-v, diamond hull VTX, older gen xstar.
Old    CB (cassidyb)      Join Date: Feb 2012       03-17-2013, 2:08 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardman74 View Post
I paid around 55K for my RZR with the standard engine(303) and standard 900 lb ballast. Got a few options: Flex gel, stainless rub rail, swivel racks, cover, bimini, set of Rev8's, and maybe a couple other things. It's cheaper to add to the stereo and ballast yourself than pay for the option. That really goes for any brand. R20 and RZR are same hull. With the convex VX they claim it to be as good as a Z-1 or RZ2 without it.

Differences R20 to RZR. Gel coat, interior vinyl, Tower, racks, tige touch, dash, carpet, gauges, etc. The better vinyl, Alpha Z, and the tige touch are worth it alone. IMO! It was about 8K difference at my dealer.

As for ski wake I know there are guys who ski the R20/RZR and say it's not to bad. I think the VTX is going to have the best ski wake hands down, but there is going to be a considerable price difference. Around 20K I'd venture to say. 3 year old used VTX's are listed for more than I paid for my new 2013. That said I think the Tige will be better than the Axis for skiing. I like the Axis, but my wife didn't like the industrial type styling. So that put it out for us. Tige will have the best surf wave.

If price was the same I'd own a VTX, but since it was 20K more we really like our RZR!!
you stole that RZR. cheapest ive seen one is 60K for a 2011 on onlyinboards. who is your dealer? the RZR that i looked at here in denver was well equipped and was around 78. wasnt interested at that price but if i could get into one new for 60 that changes things.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       03-17-2013, 3:02 PM Reply   
I'd sell mine for way less than 60K. What I paid plus $500 and I eat the tax. Brand new 2013. I have never taken delivery so I believe if someone bought it and picked it up from the dealer you'd get all warranty. We have decided to buy a new house this spring and I'd like to have my old 97 inboard back because it was paid for. Wife will probably kill me if i try to sell it, but just putting it out there.
Old     (madcityskier)      Join Date: Jun 2012       03-17-2013, 9:31 PM Reply   
As a MasterCraft guy I've gotta say X-2. But a buddy's SAN210 is an amazing crossover boat. Everything from surfing to the course. Lots of room and fits in a standard garage.
Old     (wakebrdgod)      Join Date: Jul 2010       03-18-2013, 5:24 AM Reply   
check out this 2013 VTX:
http://onlyinboards.com/Details.aspx?ID=36677

chatt mentioned the vtx pylon earlier but was mitsaken. All VTX's have the rear pylon but in 2013 a center pylon was optional. It helps with tracking but is removable. I'm a former axis owner and the VTX definitely has a better ski wake. We ski this one in the course before it got cold. Mix in surfgate and the boat really does do it all and can go back and forth in a matter of minutes.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-18-2013, 6:02 AM Reply   
^^^^ I said that because I was at the plant last week and one of my friends pointed out the removable pylon in the VTX. I did not know that this was a new feature for 2013. I've always been a wakeboarder first, and don't care about skiing, so I have never really gotten all that familiar with the vtx.

Cassidy,

If it were me, unless you need a 20 foot boat due to garage space or lake restrictions, I'd look hard at an A22. It's not that much more money than an A20, and, bluntly, the resale on any 21-22 ft wakeboat is going to be better than the comparable 20 ft boat, due to the fact that there's not much of a price difference to begin with, and you get so much more boat in that extra 2 feet.

That being said, I love the A20. I actually was the first person to ever wakeboard behind one. A friend of mine was able to snag a prototype years ago right after it rolled off the assembly line and we took it out. Believe it or not, I had one of my best sets of that season behind the A20. It's a great wakeboat. Now, I will say this, the A20 wake is a bit wider than the A22. Also, the A22 has the potential to produce a bit larger wake when slammed. For those reasons, I perfer the A22 wake over the A20 wake. In any event, both the A20 and A22 produce two of the best wake's I've ever ridden. I'd put the A20 wake up against any 20 footer on the market.

In regard to surfing, both the A20 and A22 will produce a surfable wave. It will not be as nice as, say, a vlx, lsv or may a vtx, but it is still pretty good. There are wake snobs and wave snobs, it's all about what's most important to you. I've always tried to be completely fair on this site when reviewing boats that I've owned and/or operated. The surf wave of the Axis is good, but not superb. Demoing the A20 and A22 will help you ascertain whether the wave suits your needs. Just make sure that whoever does the demo knows how to weigh the A20 and A22 for surfing. Those boats have much less hook, so you really need to weigh the nose heavy on the surf side, as well as have a 750 full in the surf side rear hatch. I used to run either a 550 in the nose on the surf side or a bow triangle bunched up in the nose on the surf side.

I have no information on skiing, other than the fact that there are some youtube videos out there showing people slaloming behind an A20 and an A22. I'll try to find those for you.

At the end of the day, I highly recommend the Axis lineup to anyone who is looking for an economic way to upgrade an existing boat or to just get out on the lake. I had very very few issues with the A22's I owned. The only thing I had go wrong is I had a seam start to pull on the rear left seat cushion on my '11 where people always stepped down onto it from the dock. My '12 did not have that problem, as Axis changed the way the piping was stitched. From what I have seen and heard, the '13 Axis vinyl is even better. I really wanted a Recond Edition A22 for '13, but by the time I got my '12 A22 sold (due in part to a forum member who totally wasted a bunch of my time and flaked out on me...) my dealer's Axis build slots were way out into the middle of summer. I ended up with an LSV (which is being built in 2 weeks) instead.

I don't know much about the VTX, but I sat in one last week, and the fit and finish is really nice. It's better in that regard than the A20, but it's a more expensive boat.

Last edited by chattwake; 03-18-2013 at 6:07 AM.
Old    CB (cassidyb)      Join Date: Feb 2012       03-18-2013, 8:15 AM Reply   
Chatt, couple reasons for looking at 20' boats:
1. Slalom wake, obviously a smaller boat is going to have a smaller wake at speed.
2. Size restrictions, while i don't live on a restricted lake several of the lakes here in Denver are restricted to 21'. I boat on some of these lakes and would like to boat on others should i have the opportunity.
3. Engine, simply i can get away with a smaller engine in the a20 whereas i might not in the a22. I'm told that here in Denver (5000 + elevation) a fully loaded a22 with ballast/wedge/crew struggles to plane with the 335/350 engines.
4. Trailering. We boat at 3-4 different lakes around Denver and will likely take a couple out of state trips each summer (including chelan wa which is a long way to haul a 22' boat).

All that being said i really do like the a22 and will definitely be demoing it this summer alongside the a20 and rzr.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-18-2013, 8:29 AM Reply   
Sounds great. Another suggestion for you is to ask the dealer to bring several props with him/her when you demo the boats. At that altitude, with either the a20 or A22, you absolutely must run the 1235 high altitude prop with the 335 or 350. I've heard that the OJ cinco prop has a great hole shot as well. If your dealer will bring both props, that would be best.

The A20 sounds like the right choice for you then. Just make sure you get a good tandem boatmate trailer if you are going to be towing up and down a bunch of steep grades.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       03-18-2013, 8:44 AM Reply   
Damn, you tow from Colorado to Lake Chelan, WA. Isn't that like a 20+ hour haul?
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       03-18-2013, 12:20 PM Reply   
Can you really slalom ski effectively behind an A20? I'd verify that with video and skiier testimonial before put down $50K for one.

There is a common misconception that the A20 and the VTX have the same hull. They do not, regardless of whether you are comparing to a VTX Wake hull or a VTX Diamond hull.

The other misconception I see in this thread is that you can't get a new VTX for under $60K. It is certainly a little more challenging, but I've seen it done. I know a guy who just bought a 2012 VTX (new leftover) for well below $60K. Search Onlyinboards for 2012's... several options for < $60K.
Old    Joel Treiger (spf2275)      Join Date: Mar 2011       03-27-2013, 6:18 AM Reply   
I love my X15. I wakeboard, slalom and surf every time we go out. Not too many boats you can do that with these days. As stated before, it's not the absolute best at any one thing but its really damn good at all three.
Old    Joel Treiger (spf2275)      Join Date: Mar 2011       03-27-2013, 6:24 AM Reply   

Stock Ballast



Goofy side surf wave before we dialed it in. Same shape, just clean lip now. Only pic I had.
Old    Joel Treiger (spf2275)      Join Date: Mar 2011       03-27-2013, 6:36 AM Reply   
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AREcGA1BtOU

Surf wave with driver, spotter and 800lbs extra ballast. I just learned to surf to watch me .
Old    CB (cassidyb)      Join Date: Feb 2012       03-31-2013, 1:38 PM Reply   
hey all, wondering if some of you might be able to help me out with a dealership question. I had an RZR priced here in denver and was very suprised at how high the price was based on what ive seen on the forums and onlyinboards. I called up another dealership to have the boat priced and see some alternative pricing. they said that because im in denver and there already is a dealership here that they cant sell me a boat. he went on to say that its illegal and if tige were to find out they sold a boat in another dealers territory that they could their license pulled? is this a legit story? thats seems pretty crazy to me as it would allow any dealer in any one area to monopolize pricing and basically charge whatever they want because customers dont have any other option. does this also mean that i cant purchase a boat on say onlyinboards at an out of state dealership? very confused right now....
Old    CB (cassidyb)      Join Date: Feb 2012       03-31-2013, 1:39 PM Reply   
also, does anybody have any video/pictures slaloming behind a RZR?
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       03-31-2013, 1:54 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattieK27 View Post
You got a deal on that RZR. I was going direct to the factory two years ago and still couldn't touch a RZR for that price...

As Swat pointed out, location defines price. The dealer in our area will never sell that low, and as a result usually has plenty of inventory. Swat, you ready for the season yet? Still rocking the OG Xstar? If you ever want to run the river, or just hang out let me know. You were most helpful in my X1 purchase.

As an aside, the X1/205V hull is actually not a bad crossover, but it lacks in the higher end equipment and space of the newer boats. Has anyone mentioned the Nautique 200v? Heard great things about that boat, the only negative I've consistently heard is it's very easy to dunk the nose when loaded up.
Matt,

Still got it. 1100 hours and not a hiccup. Unfortunately I am going under the knife again for my shoulder that I busted at work . So looks like another season is going to be cut short and I will be hanging on. Nothing has blown my mind just yet wake wise or performance wise to what I have. I will say though the 2013 Axis lineup is catching my eye more and more. Their boats have come around quick from the bathtub on water Bayliner feel they had for me their first two yrs. I loved what Tige had to offer but as u know skippers will never ever deal and they are priced insanely high.

Gonna have to hookup for sure this summer. Been a while since I have been to the old river stomping grounds.

Last edited by xstarrider; 03-31-2013 at 1:57 PM.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       03-31-2013, 3:32 PM Reply   
CB as I understand it that is the way it is. I had referred a few people to my dealer and I thought I was helping my dealer and the people out. Turns out when they called him, my dealer was having to turn them away because they are out of territory. I think its messed up too and does allow monopoly. In my case price was a huge factor as we got a fair deal on our boat. In your case it could drive you to buy another brand. Doesn't seem to make sense. But most boat manufacturers have protected territories as I understand it.

I think this would also mean you could not buy a "new" boat from an out of territory dealership on onlyinboards or any site for that matter. I was told it does not apply to used boats. I know they have to protect their dealers, but from a consumer standpoint when shopping it can seem like it take price competition out of the mix.
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       03-31-2013, 7:07 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardman74 View Post
CB as I understand it that is the way it is. I had referred a few people to my dealer and I thought I was helping my dealer and the people out. Turns out when they called him, my dealer was having to turn them away because they are out of territory. I think its messed up too and does allow monopoly. In my case price was a huge factor as we got a fair deal on our boat. In your case it could drive you to buy another brand. Doesn't seem to make sense. But most boat manufacturers have protected territories as I understand it.

I think this would also mean you could not buy a "new" boat from an out of territory dealership on onlyinboards or any site for that matter. I was told it does not apply to used boats. I know they have to protect their dealers, but from a consumer standpoint when shopping it can seem like it take price competition out of the mix.
It also doesn't apply to leftovers from previous year on new stock. Current year boats only in most cases. Really brand dependent on the "fine print". Nautique used to have the strictest guidelines not sure if that still holds true, but almost every MFG has a terrritory rule of some sort. Back when I was a MFG Rep I had several customers write letters to the company requesting they be allowed to purchase out of territory due to their displeasure with the local dealership. However that meant they wouldn't take the boat to their local dealership for service issues ether and required any issues to go through the sale dealership and then through me. Most companies would rather make a sale in the end rather than lose one.

Last edited by xstarrider; 03-31-2013 at 7:12 PM.

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