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Old    Robby Elliott (Elliottsx80)      Join Date: Feb 2012       03-04-2013, 7:00 PM Reply   
seems like the low volts coming from the 3.5 and 30pin connector out of your iphone and ipod would do some serious damage to your music quality??? would it be worth buying a amp to boost this, or do they even make such a thing?
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-04-2013, 7:23 PM Reply   
What are your trying to do. Most I pods go into some sort of Pre Amp like a EQ that boost's line voltage. So I guess I'm trying to understand what your trying to do b4 I recommend a line drive or eq
Old    Robby Elliott (Elliottsx80)      Join Date: Feb 2012       03-04-2013, 7:33 PM Reply   
like plugging my iphone into my 420, the 420 puts out a 5v signal to the amps, seems like you would want a good 5v coming from your iphone to your 420. doesnt that help on the clipping that can occur from low V signal?
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-04-2013, 8:54 PM Reply   
I don't think it works like adding up voltage example your head unit has 5 volts and your EQ has 6 volts you then have 11 volt EQ output. I'm pretty sure the highest voltage in the single unit is what you end up with. So if your WS 420 has a line voltage of 5 volts that's what your amps are seeing.
Line voltage is another subject. So do you think your system would sound better with more line voltage? If so you should look for a line driver.
I use a Line drive to push signal to boats that hook up to me. It allows me to adjust or boost a signal to people
Old    Chase Tillett (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       03-04-2013, 10:14 PM Reply   
Grant, could you post a link to your line driver?
Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       03-04-2013, 10:21 PM Reply   
The 3.5mm headphone output is often a limited bandwidth for use with earbuds and to increase efficiency to conserve internal battery power. The preffered approach is to convert the bottom port which is a true preout and cleaner. The voltage from the bottom port is limited. But a source unit automatically rectifies that.
If going directly into an EQ with a fixed input, then a small line driver between the ipod/iphone bottom port and EQ input can improve the noise level as it's doing the same as a solid source unit. But go easy on the line driver gain. This issue is independent of setting the amplifier input gains.

David
Earmark Marine
Old    Mikeski (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       03-04-2013, 10:43 PM Reply   
I use a line out dock connector to a FiiO e11 in my truck, works very well, provides a very clean and strong signal.
Old    Bryce Pool (bryce2320)      Join Date: May 2012       03-05-2013, 7:36 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by david_e_m View Post
The 3.5mm headphone output is often a limited bandwidth for use with earbuds and to increase efficiency to conserve internal battery power. The preffered approach is to convert the bottom port which is a true preout and cleaner. The voltage from the bottom port is limited. But a source unit automatically rectifies that.
If going directly into an EQ with a fixed input, then a small line driver between the ipod/iphone bottom port and EQ input can improve the noise level as it's doing the same as a solid source unit. But go easy on the line driver gain. This issue is independent of setting the amplifier input gains.

David
Earmark Marine
So David, your saying using a radio with a USB port that connects to the bottom of an iPod/iPhone (where u charge from) would be the ideal to get the best signal to the HU? Hopefully so because that's what I bought my CMD6
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-05-2013, 7:37 AM Reply   
Chase; arc audio Ald
http://www.arcaudio.com/product-page...rivers/ald.asp
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Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       03-05-2013, 8:20 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryce2320 View Post
So David, your saying using a radio with a USB port that connects to the bottom of an iPod/iPhone (where u charge from) would be the ideal to get the best signal to the HU? Hopefully so because that's what I bought my CMD6
It doesn't matter what you convert the output to, whether USB, RCA, or 3.5mm (as they are all the same analog audio), as long as you start with the ipod/iphone bottom port.

David
Earmark Marine
Old    Chase Tillett (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       03-05-2013, 8:33 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
Thanks man!
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-05-2013, 8:46 AM Reply   
3.5 Vs the 30 pin or the bottom port I though was a well talked about subject. I guess Inthought everyone knew of the advantages of the bottom port.
The main one I would say is the Set volume level. The output from the bottom port is Maximied at the highest set volume with the lowest distortion. So when you plug into the bottom port your getting the best signal your device can output.

I would set the 3.5 volume at about 75% that seemed to be what the bottom port would do (i was matching the volume of the bottom port and the 3.5) and test the sound quality between the 2. I couldn't tell any diffreance between more or less quality between the 2.
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-05-2013, 8:55 AM Reply   
Chase; were you looking for a line driver for YOUR system or a line drive to boost the signal of a RCA that you pass to another boat? The reason I ask is because I know that their are many other line drivers with more adjustment like many of the ones Audio Control sells like the Matrix. This way you can use it for your system as line driver and it has extra channels with independent volume adjustments for each channel.
http://www.audiocontrol.com/t34/5249...rol-Input.html
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Old    Jason Smith (snowslider76)      Join Date: Mar 2002       03-05-2013, 9:52 AM Reply   
30 pin connector is the way to go it makes a world of difference IMO. I run a Chu Moy amp to my headphones and using a headphone line in vs the 30 pin makes a huge difference. Like a good little Apple sheep I bought an Iphone 5 and the new lighting adapter is causing some problems.

You need to buy a lighting to 30 pin from Apple for $30 to make any of your old 30 pins work. Not a huge deal but they don't stay on the phone well and I swear I can hear a small difference. It's just a temp fix for now I'm sure Apple will come out with some Lighting to RCA and Lighting to headphone jack. The new Lightning connector doesn't have analog capability in any way. To work with accessories that expect analog output, the adapter will need a digital-to-analog converter (DAC) chip and it will also need an Apple authentication chip. Apple will probably sell a chip to manufacturers that includes authentication + DAC functions in a single chip hopefully sometime soon. But right now if you buy a ebay knock off you mine as well throw your money away.

Anyway you might want to keep your Iphone 4 for awhile if you system is using the 30 pin connector because the fix isn't that great right now.
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Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-05-2013, 11:25 AM Reply   
^^^Holly Crap what the hell is that ?^^^

IMO Apple makes the best quality cables for its own stuff. All the after market cables seem to have issues after time.

I run this 30 pin to RCA cable to push Audio and Video as well as Charge threw USB
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC...osite-av-cable

Then I attach this 30 pin to Lightning to my Composite cable. Works good & gives you the ability to play and charge a i phone 5 or a 4
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Old    Jason Smith (snowslider76)      Join Date: Mar 2002       03-05-2013, 12:49 PM Reply   
It's a Chu Moy or Cmoy headphone amp.

Ya I cheeped out and got the one that was $30 guess I should have spent $20 more and got the one with the pigtail. The one I have just does not stay on well.
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Old    TJ (Houstonshark)      Join Date: Jan 2011       03-05-2013, 1:11 PM Reply   
FYI, the USB input on the Clarion headunits works just fine with the iPhone 5 and USB to lightning cable.

Once I finally found the right USB extension cable, I extended it and installed the female Clarion USB plug at the captain's helm. Every once in awhile it gives me an error on the Tige Touch (reading the error from the Clarion HU). I either just unplug an plug the phone back in or just start playing music from Pandora and Spotify and all is good.

I've never really liked using the 1/8" input on the 420. I kinda like the extra volume control of the headunit and transom mounted remote.

It's also a nice security measure when you train people to just use the volume of the 420 to be able to back the volume of the HU down a little without them knowing.

Back on topic concerning line drivers, I use a Tru Technology SSLD6i in my boat. It's way overkill but made a world of difference in sound quality and lowering the noise floor.

http://www.trutechnology.com/product...Amp/ssld6i.htm
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-05-2013, 2:49 PM Reply   
Jason; please excuse my stupidness but why would some one want a head phone jack Amp. Are you boosting volume for Headphones or Pre Out to a Stereo? Can't say I have ever needed my headphones to be boosted that much
Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       03-05-2013, 3:24 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
Jason; please excuse my stupidness but why would some one want a head phone jack Amp. Are you boosting volume for Headphones or Pre Out to a Stereo? Can't say I have ever needed my headphones to be boosted that much
OH YEAH. With lossless files, an external and better quality DAC and a stout OP amp the experience with headphones is incredible....but only if you are running really good phones.
There is no way an ipod or iphone can push the better quality headphones.
I was using a pair of Sennheiser HD-650 phones for home. Not the very best available but pretty darn good. I ran straight out of the CD changer internal headphone amp. Then I added an external Pro-Ject headphone amplifier. The Pro-Ject is good but certainly not an esoteric piece. The difference was HUGE. Not just for some with a good ear. But a big difference heard by everyone that listened.

David
Earmark Marine
Old    Chase Tillett (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       03-05-2013, 3:59 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
Chase; were you looking for a line driver for YOUR system or a line drive to boost the signal of a RCA that you pass to another boat? The reason I ask is because I know that their are many other line drivers with more adjustment like many of the ones Audio Control sells like the Matrix. This way you can use it for your system as line driver and it has extra channels with independent volume adjustments for each channel.
http://www.audiocontrol.com/t34/5249...rol-Input.html
I would like to boost the signal in both. Using the 420 to link we found that on the boat that was On the receiving end of the music would have a set volume, but songs vary in volume. So the next song that came on may blare and distort because it was too loud. Then the next song that came on would be really quiet and you would only hear one boat. All the music on my phone is bought through iTunes (I believe in supporting artist) so its relatively good quality. We didn't want to damage speakers in his boat so we stopped linking and didn't want to have to hassle with having to turn it up or down with every song. Would this fix this problem?
Old    Dax Jolly (volzalum)      Join Date: May 2009       03-05-2013, 4:23 PM Reply   
Would the Wetsounds WS-VC work for controlling the line out on the WS-420? Or would you still need a line amp to help with the signal? http://www.wetsounds.com/pages/produ...cessories.html
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-05-2013, 4:41 PM Reply   
Chase: Bit rate can make music sound better and have more volume example a 192KB song is not going to have the Volume that a full 320 KB or CD quality song is going to have. If your haveing spikes in music quality and volume. That's a issue with the file itself. The spike should effect even the boat that playing the file. Is that the case or are you saying the spike only happens down line?

This is how I link.

I take the Signal comming directly from the head unit. One line go's to my EQ and that signal is for my system, The Second line go's to the Line Driver. That signal or line is for people that want to link its not processed just boosted. I have that signal set up to push a strong signal threw 20 feet of quality RCA. Its adjusted up to match the volume Im running people can adjust their signal or volume up or down and i can do the same at my Line driver.

Chase: I will urge you to find files like full length mix's 40+ min's that are clean and don't have distortion, Save these files for link up party's this way you know that you can push play and you don't have peak's and valley's or distortion. It sucks when your playing and you have to rush back to your system cause someone is pushing a dirty signal.

Not many people get it but the ones who do "love ya". Im so glad rid my I pod of crappy low quality music or DJ mixes that have DJ's wishing people HAPPY BIRTHDAY threw out the mix.
That and a Fire Siren are instant reasons to hit the Delete button
Old    Jason Smith (snowslider76)      Join Date: Mar 2002       03-05-2013, 5:01 PM Reply   
Just like David said you are never going to push a good pair of headphones(cans) with an Ipod. There is a reason you see the guys in a mixing booth with headphones on instead of speakers, the sound is just that much better. I have a pair of AKG's probably really similar to David's 650s quality wise. I've tired some really high end Ultrsone's before and they are incredible. A headphone amp is a waste of time for a pair of in ear Skull Candies or the like, I'm sure it would ruin them in no time. Not that in ears don't serve their purpose I can't go running with my AKG's. I like the Chu Moy because of it's warm fat tube amp sound and cost, but there are a ton to choose from.
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-05-2013, 6:40 PM Reply   
Jason that makes sence. Thanks for the explanation. I would love to hear the sound your amp pushes to a pair of quality headphones. I'm addicted to my Bose headphones no way the SQ of the AKG's but I get what your saying about headphones Vs speakers.
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-05-2013, 6:40 PM Reply   
btw where would one get such a amp?
Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       03-05-2013, 6:51 PM Reply   
Grant,
I have purchased from musicdirect.com.

David
Earmark Marine
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-05-2013, 7:43 PM Reply   
Thanks
Old    Jason Smith (snowslider76)      Join Date: Mar 2002       03-06-2013, 7:33 AM Reply   
Those Bose will sound pretty nice with an amp, I'm sure you'll be amazed by the difference.

Grant you're a project guy I'm sure you can whip these out in no time
http://tangentsoft.net/audio/cmoy-tutorial/

I like the portable designs so I can take them on trips. I used to fly weekly for work and only lost one to TSA in Denver in all that time. You get some questions about wires and a battery in a small tin box but once you show them or explain it's usually not an issue.

There are some really cool diy designs here that I would love to try out but they are way beyond my project or technical understanding. http://headwize.com/
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-06-2013, 9:14 AM Reply   
Jason did you put together that DIY presentation or did you just build the amp via the DIY instructions. That looks like a cool little project. Right now I'm slammed with all the DIY stuff I can handle. If its not about getting my boat finished and back on the water then it's gonna have to sit on the wish list or I will just break out the cc and buy one. But thanks for the info it would be Intresting to test the amp on people's system that don't use a head unit. iPod to EQ systems
Old    Jason Smith (snowslider76)      Join Date: Mar 2002       03-06-2013, 3:52 PM Reply   
No to both, I'm not really that much of a DIY'er outside of ballast systems and rails. Plus I have the dexterity of an elephant I could never solder something that small. I purchased both of mine off of Ebay, the seller to look for is Biosciencephd or Biosciencenerd something like that, he'll customize it right to your specific headphones or whatever the use might be. There are a ton on ebay in general, just search for "Cmoy" they should run $50-$60.
Old    Jason Smith (snowslider76)      Join Date: Mar 2002       03-06-2013, 3:53 PM Reply   
I should have checked ebay first, biosciencegeek

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Biosciencege...item1e77ec432b
Old    Murphy Smith (murphy_smith)      Join Date: Dec 2005       03-06-2013, 4:28 PM Reply   
This whole add a line driver before the Line Driver/EQ was a solution that was used with the WetSounds WS420 EQ. It is had been mentioned many time that they WS EQ had noice so WS took that adjustable voltage pots out of the unit and set them up to run a fixed voltage around 5 volts. IMO - people were takeing a noisy signal from the WS 420 and driving the crap out of the voltage into the amps and causing a noise issue.

A popular was to boost the voltage into the WS 420 so that you would have a much stronger and cleaner signal going in and the WS420 would not have to work as hard. This concept is called "amortizing your gains" across all sources. Can't take credit for this term, hear it from Ryan an Chucktronics.

The most common fix was to add an Arc Audio ALD b/t the Ipod and the WS 420. If you want to know more - read this thread

http://www.tigeowners.com/forum/show...&highlight=ALD
Old    Robby Elliott (Elliottsx80)      Join Date: Feb 2012       03-06-2013, 7:45 PM Reply   
thanks murphy thats exactly what i was looking for. i think im going to try this on mine.

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