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Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       01-02-2013, 1:39 PM Reply   
Saw a post by my dealer and it says " check back tomorrow for a new innovation by nautique boats for surfing! "

Anyone have any info or heard of anything??
Old    Bryce (brycejb328)      Join Date: Aug 2009       01-02-2013, 1:53 PM Reply   
Certainly it will be a game changer
Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       01-02-2013, 1:55 PM Reply   
Full release will go down tomorrow and I can assure that most of the WW community will be stoked!!
Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       01-02-2013, 1:57 PM Reply   
Check the Nautique website in the AM and there should be a full page and details available.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       01-02-2013, 2:19 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by brycejb328 View Post
Certainly it will be a game changer
And the g was a game changer, the x star, the surfgate, the vx... Hype hype hype

I am excited what they come up with, nautiques engineers have been killing it
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       01-02-2013, 2:42 PM Reply   
If its from nautique it must be a game changer. Don't talk bad about it or the loyal following will be on you like white on rice!!

Innovation is great and I'm curious to see what it is. All these new items are great for the industry as a whole. But no one is the answer and none of them are magic.
Old    Justin (jrw160)      Join Date: Oct 2006       01-02-2013, 2:42 PM Reply   
Wakemakers posted about it, but it looks like the post is pw protected now.
http://media.wakemakers.com/2013/01/...medium=twitter
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            01-02-2013, 2:48 PM Reply   
8am
Old    Spencer (spencerwm)      Join Date: Feb 2009       01-02-2013, 3:03 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by LR3w8kbrdr View Post
8am
East coast 8AM?
Old    Nick A (Therapy10)      Join Date: Oct 2011       01-02-2013, 3:06 PM Reply   
google image search shows this thing. Small picture but looks like surf gate.

Old    Russ Constable (Midnightv10)      Join Date: Feb 2012       01-02-2013, 3:21 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrw160 View Post
Wakemakers posted about it, but it looks like the post is pw protected now.
http://media.wakemakers.com/2013/01/...medium=twitter
Wasn't too hard to crack that password

"It looks like Tige and Malibu will not be the only ones with WakeSurf innovations for 2013. Nautique’s new WavePlate technology looks to be an extension of their already popular hydro-gate system. Not only will this system compete with Malibu’s Surf Gate when it comes to switching the wave from side to side, it also can adjust the shape of the wave allowing for total control. More information is set to be releases January 3rd and we are hoping for a couple videos to see the WavePlate in action. Word on the street is that all boats produced in 2013 will have the factory option available but any late model Team Edition Correct Craft with the LINC system can be retrofitted sometime this spring."
Attached Images
 

Last edited by Midnightv10; 01-02-2013 at 3:30 PM.
Old    Tom (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       01-02-2013, 3:36 PM Reply   
Lol yea the password is laughable. Sounds cool! And the wave looks good in the picture.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       01-02-2013, 4:30 PM Reply   
Looking at the picture you think Malibu's patent lawyers would be all over that. If surf gate works than this should too.
Old    Russ Constable (Midnightv10)      Join Date: Feb 2012       01-02-2013, 4:45 PM Reply   
It definitely looks interesting. Looks like a plate that slides stright out from the boat which I could see allowing you to have more control of the shape of the wave.. looking forward to seeing the video.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       01-02-2013, 5:09 PM Reply   
Where's JD? There's going to be some butthurtness in here!! I can feel it coming!!!
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       01-02-2013, 6:37 PM Reply   
I think I give this a win vs. surf gate, it's not as ugly and looks substantial and hidden, no weird flaps on the swimdeck etc.. I'll be interested to see how it works as a shaper as well compared to the VX. Also, will this be offered on the 210 or 230? I would bet these boats are seeing the end of production soon... With g21 rumors and the g23 out.
Old    Scott (scottb7)      Join Date: Oct 2012       01-02-2013, 7:04 PM Reply   
Above says it can be retrofitted to team editions with linc. i have 2008 team but no linc...out of luck, and can't afford to trade it in. guess got to keep going old style.
Old    Travis (fman)      Join Date: Nov 2008       01-02-2013, 8:01 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottb7 View Post
Above says it can be retrofitted to team editions with linc. i have 2008 team but no linc...out of luck, and can't afford to trade it in. guess got to keep going old style.
Its nice that Nautique is offering some type of retrofit for older boats. I have been told Malibu is not allowing ANY boats to be retrofitted for 3-5 years even if they have Maliview/MTC.
Old    Spencer (spencerwm)      Join Date: Feb 2009       01-02-2013, 8:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
will this be offered on the 210 or 230? I would bet these boats are seeing the end of production soon... With g21 rumors and the g23 out.
This will be available on the 210's and 230's from what I have heard. I am stoked to see it on a 210. I am wondering what kind a pricing we will be looking at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fman View Post
Its nice that Nautique is offering some type of retrofit for older boats. I have been told Malibu is not allowing ANY boats to be retrofitted for 3-5 years even if they have Maliview/MTC.
Malibu obviously doesn't think they need to offer any retrofits onto older models. With this said I have talked to more than a few 2011 and 2012 Malibu owners that are trading in for a surf gate equipped boat. Maybe they have projected the profits vs. headaches factor and have decided it didn't pencil out.

In my opinion Nautique was smart by hinting at an upgrade option for boats that have the LINC system. Really it looks like all the dealer will need to do is drill a couple holes in the transom, run some wire, and re-flash the computer. That is only half a days work for an experienced tech and why not throw some upgrade business to the service department. It's a win win.
Old    DC (durty_curt)      Join Date: Apr 2008       01-02-2013, 8:50 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fman View Post
Its nice that Nautique is offering some type of retrofit for older boats. I have been told Malibu is not allowing ANY boats to be retrofitted for 3-5 years even if they have Maliview/MTC.
And that's why there is the poor mans surf gate!

http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/...ns-gate/page-1
Old    Lionel (lionel)      Join Date: Nov 2005       01-02-2013, 9:17 PM Reply   
It's too bad MC hasn't done a better job advertising their surf tabs. They've been around for awhile....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oItkqqKwEes
Old    Joe Montalto (RIDE_LAB)      Join Date: Dec 2011       01-02-2013, 9:35 PM Reply   
$2800 for the NSS
Old    Spencer (spencerwm)      Join Date: Feb 2009       01-03-2013, 12:04 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lionel View Post
It's too bad MC hasn't done a better job advertising their surf tabs. They've been around for awhile....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oItkqqKwEes
Mastercraft did advertise it. Zane has been filmed riding a few horrible surf waves since the tabs were introduced. If only the system worked that well at surf speed with a ridable wave. Why no rider in this video?

I have been impressed with the surf wake behind one MC with SurfTabs... The latest generation X-30. All others have not lived up to dealer reteric. I would take any X-Series MC in the current line up when it comes to meaty perfectly shaped wakeboard wakes.

I would imagine "Gen2 SurfTabs" will deliver happiness to all.
Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       01-03-2013, 3:31 AM Reply   
The NSS will be available for 210's and 230's equipped with "LINC 2.0". For the release the system is focused on 2013 models and everything should be dialed in for 2012 models later in the spring. If anyone is interested in a retro fit contact your local dealer. This system will not work with anything pre LINC 2.0
Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       01-03-2013, 3:36 AM Reply   
http://nautique.com/models/nautique-surf-system?id=92

Last edited by wakeworld; 01-04-2013 at 7:17 PM.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       01-03-2013, 5:10 AM Reply   
Looks interesting. Different concept how it slides in and out like a blade versus the oversized trim tab idea.

One issue I see is guys who ride salt or brackish. Little corrosion and that blade isn't going to want to slide in and out. Same thing for anyone that rides anywhere that they get some build up on the bottom of the boat. Be curious to see how that effects, guess time will tell.
Old    Tom (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       01-03-2013, 6:18 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardman74 View Post
Looks interesting. Different concept how it slides in and out like a blade versus the oversized trim tab idea.

One issue I see is guys who ride salt or brackish. Little corrosion and that blade isn't going to want to slide in and out. Same thing for anyone that rides anywhere that they get some build up on the bottom of the boat. Be curious to see how that effects, guess time will tell.
Standard trim tab plates don't typically suffer from corrosion, so I doubt this would be an issue.

I am certainly very surprised and intrigued by this design!
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       01-03-2013, 6:34 AM Reply   
Standard trim tab doesn't slide in and out of a slot like a pocket knife. Completely different design here. Tabs just actuate up and down they don't go in and out. This is going in and out of a slot like a pocket door. Just like their hydrogate does, except the hydrogate is more open/exposed.

I have seen and repaired extensive trim tab and trim issues(I/O, outboards) while living in Florida, in the salt and brackish environment.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       01-03-2013, 7:19 AM Reply   
Sweet! I really love how it hides away from view unlike the malibu ot tige systems, but I dislike the design in terms of the fact that surf gate could be replaces with a normal trim tab actuator in 5 years and the tige design lacks any moving parts this LOOKs as if it needs specific parts which means possibility for big money.
Old    Tom (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       01-03-2013, 10:06 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardman74 View Post
Standard trim tab doesn't slide in and out of a slot like a pocket knife. Completely different design here. Tabs just actuate up and down they don't go in and out. This is going in and out of a slot like a pocket door. Just like their hydrogate does, except the hydrogate is more open/exposed.

I have seen and repaired extensive trim tab and trim issues(I/O, outboards) while living in Florida, in the salt and brackish environment.
I grew up waterfront on Long Island. I've never seen extensive rust on a trim tab. Barnacle and algae, yes.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       01-03-2013, 10:13 AM Reply   
Most tabs are aluminum=no rust. Where they fail is in the hinge and the actuator, the pad doesn't rust. Also the wiring from salt air.

Where this is a siding/ pocket design, if there are algae or barnacle it will hang up. Thanks for validating my concern!
Old    E (22vdrive)      Join Date: Apr 2010       01-03-2013, 10:20 AM Reply   
Looks like a modified surf gate( trim tab)

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
Old    Russ Constable (Midnightv10)      Join Date: Feb 2012       01-03-2013, 10:46 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardman74 View Post
Most tabs are aluminum=no rust. Where they fail is in the hinge and the actuator, the pad doesn't rust. Also the wiring from salt air.

Where this is a siding/ pocket design, if there are algae or barnacle it will hang up. Thanks for validating my concern!
algae or barnacle build up generally occurs when the boat is sitting idle for longer periods of time. you probably would not have the tabs extended while the boat is parked so I bet the tabs will stay pretty clean inside the pockets.. I think it looks like a great design.. looking forward to hearing some reviews of it
Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       01-03-2013, 11:34 AM Reply   
Companies have been using underwater trim tabs for decades. There isn't much difference between those and the NSS system in terms of how it moves so somebody buying a fishing boat with trim tabs should have no more concern of wear and tear than somebody purchasing a boat with this system. The arm also only travels about half the distance the surf gate arm travels. So the actuacting system itself actually moves less than a traditional trim tab or surf gate sytem. This statement is not to justify the system or this is better or that is better. Anyone using a boat in salt water or brackish water has many more concerns than a single actuator going out after 5 years. I would be more concerned with engine components and salt water dripping all over my boat than an actuator and plate.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       01-03-2013, 1:03 PM Reply   
Everyone seems to be completely missing what I am saying. The system may very well not have a problem.

Look at the pictures again. It slides in and out of a slot between the black plastic and the hull. It does not actuate up and down like a trim tab(surf gate, taps, wake plate, etc). It goes in and out like a pocket door. The hydro gate works similar except it just has tracks and isn't encased like the new NSS.

Salt does have it's own worries this is probably the least of a saltwater owners.

I am simply stating something I see as a potential issue. I know it is from Nautique and available on the G23 so as such is given "god like" status. I probably have no right to question it.
Old    Wake Pro Marine (jagermeister)      Join Date: Sep 2007       01-03-2013, 1:41 PM Reply   
The how it work's link...

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=...type=2&theater
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       01-03-2013, 1:41 PM Reply   
I cannot get enough of people who have never designed anything questioning everything.

Unless of course it is MB or Tige related, then it gets a free pass...
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       01-03-2013, 1:50 PM Reply   
I used to design hydraulic systems for Caterpillar, so if your referring to me you might want to hold off, Mattie. I also have a hydraulics degree and last I checked water is indeed a fluid. I'm not saying the system won't work, just that I see something that could be a problem. Chances are I'm not the first that noticed that. Check the video above. It's tight enough that there are scrapes on the metal as it extends. So there is virtually no clearance if something is stuck to the plate/tab. Maybe there is a scraper there and the hydraulic ram is strong enough to pull it in regardless of the resistance.

Sound Plausible Matt?

It's made by Nautique so I am sure it's awesome. But just for the record I am a Tige owner and think the Convex VX whale tale is super special too!!
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       01-03-2013, 2:00 PM Reply   
It was a more "in general" statement. You just happened to make the statement before my comment.

I too noticed the scrapes on the extension, bizarre to show those issues on a debut video. Could there be issues in the future? Yes, maybe. Are there plenty of hydraulic systems that withstand daily abuse in salt water? Yes, thousands over many years. The better question, how many of these tow boats spend more than a few days in the water at any given time? Is marine grown and other things that could get stuck to the plate even an issue, especially considering the plate is only extended while moving?

Just because it is made by Nautique doesn't give it a free pass, but I think people are being pretty critical of a fairly simple mechanical/hydraulic system.
Old    Wake Pro Marine (jagermeister)      Join Date: Sep 2007       01-03-2013, 2:06 PM Reply   
Nautique has used this type system on their manual wake plate on the 210's and 230's.. Seems to work just fine for the last 7 or 8 years...

Gentlemen.. This is a Nautique,,,, not a Hyundai... That would be like saying Ferrari does not invest any R&D when they build their cars..

If you can't afford it.... You can't have it..
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       01-03-2013, 2:13 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jagermeister View Post
Nautique has used this type system on their manual wake plate on the 210's and 230's.. Seems to work just fine for the last 7 or 8 years...

Gentlemen.. This is a Nautique,,,, not a Hyundai... That would be like saying Ferrari does not invest any R&D when they build their cars..

If you can't afford it.... You can't have it..
Mhunter?
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       01-03-2013, 2:15 PM Reply   
Oh here we go. Now the common man can not comment because we can't afford it. We are not worthy.

We are also comparing CC to Ferrari? Unbelievable.
Old    Scott (scottb7)      Join Date: Oct 2012       01-03-2013, 6:27 PM Reply   
Anyone got pictures of the mastercraft ones?
Old    Daniel (cowwboy)      Join Date: Jul 2008       01-04-2013, 7:52 AM Reply   
So it's the same general theory as malibu's design.
Change the timing of the wave coming from the opposite side.
Just using a flat plate sliding out disturbing the water coming off the hull instead of a trim tab type plate exteneding the running surface of the hull.
Old    Wake Pro Marine (jagermeister)      Join Date: Sep 2007       01-04-2013, 12:10 PM Reply   
Haha.. "the Common Man" ...

Everyone can have an opinion but not everyone can drop the coin for it.. ( including me)

CC and MC have been around for ages.. You don't quite have staying power in this industry with substandard engineering...
Old    Wake Pro Marine (jagermeister)      Join Date: Sep 2007       01-04-2013, 12:12 PM Reply   
Here's the Mastercraft X10 Surf..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oItkqqKwEes
Old    Rob Andrus (robandrus)      Join Date: Feb 2002       01-04-2013, 12:12 PM Reply   
Looks like a win. Great system, compact, easy to add to older boats and won't affect things like backing up. (Who does that in a wake boat anyway?) Cool product, and good timing for the market. Can't wait to see one at the boat show in a month.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       01-04-2013, 12:46 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jagermeister View Post

CC and MC have been around for ages.. You don't quite have staying power in this industry with substandard engineering...
Really? I am sure there are plenty of examples of "substandard engineering" by the "top 3" "stayers" in this industry. Exibit A: Gen 3 Xstar Tower problems.

Engineering has little to do with selling boats, IMO. Looks, appearance, status, hype, performance, marketing and name recognition...etc. collectively have overwhelmingly more to do with a manufacturers success than engineering.
Old    doug rose (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       01-04-2013, 3:24 PM Reply   
is it deployed on the opposite side like the bu? So port wave, deploy on the right?
Old    Spencer (spencerwm)      Join Date: Feb 2009       01-04-2013, 4:25 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougr View Post
is it deployed on the opposite side like the bu? So port wave, deploy on the right?
Yes. That is how it was explained to me.
Old     (WakeDirt)      Join Date: Jun 2011       01-04-2013, 5:43 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by spencerwm View Post
Yes. That is how it was explained to me.
How far out does it stick out?
Old    Wake Pro Marine (jagermeister)      Join Date: Sep 2007       01-04-2013, 6:54 PM Reply   


MC is a basic trim tab system..
Old    Scott (scottb7)      Join Date: Oct 2012       01-04-2013, 7:07 PM Reply   
Wonder if the nautique one is really worth the trouble. I have a 2008 super air 210 which won't retrofit as nautique forum is saying you need 2012 linc system. but honestly I could mount a couple of tabs like above. dont you think?

is it really worth it? you still have to weight the boat, right. you just weight it equally and use the tabs vs. just weighting one side more? if peeps all ride same side then probably not worth the trouble, is it?
Old    Jack (miljack)      Join Date: Feb 2006       01-04-2013, 7:43 PM Reply   
Engineering is the basis on which "high performance" wake boats are sold. The ability of a wake boat's hull to produce an extraordinary wake is the result of exceptional fluid dynamics analysis+development to design and build a hull which will generate a wake riders will enjoy. This IS more complicated than it looks...
So, engineering of the hull is one aspect, the effective design of the tower, board racks, and other ancillary components contribute to the overall design and engineering that helps to sell boats. Some of this will appeal more to one group of buyers over another, hence the multitude of builders in the wakeboard boat market.
And IMHO, the analogy of Ferrari vs. Hyundai is not too far afield; are there any boat manufacturers who have higher performing wake boat than CC and MC?
Assuming the criteria utilized considers the technology employed to build the wake as opposed to just "slamming" the boat for the best wake production?

If the poster had used Bugatti Veyron vs. Hyundai, then we would be into the preposterous analogies...
Old    Scott (scottb7)      Join Date: Oct 2012       01-04-2013, 8:36 PM Reply   
Your entitled to your opinion, but me thinks it is more about "high performance" marketing then engineering.
Old    L W (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       01-04-2013, 9:09 PM Reply   
The video of the X-10 looks like it works just like the Bu and CC tabs. The wave doesn't look huge but it does look clean and the switch is fast.
Old    Scott (scottb7)      Join Date: Oct 2012       01-04-2013, 9:38 PM Reply   
i agree and if the x10 was as heavy and weighted as the g23 probably wake would be just as big...
Old    E (22vdrive)      Join Date: Apr 2010       01-04-2013, 9:47 PM Reply   
Of course that x-10 wave is going to look clean when they are going that fast. That wave didn't even look rideable.

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
Old    Wake Pro Marine (jagermeister)      Join Date: Sep 2007       01-05-2013, 7:35 AM Reply   
Found this clip of the new MC X10.. Looks like a Christmas present they couldn't wait till spring to get it out..

The Wave looks clean but nut huge.. Adding an #1100 to the locker will probably step it up..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcAKv58kOXY
Old    Todd (ifinallygota21v)      Join Date: Oct 2006       01-05-2013, 8:54 PM Reply   
Am I the only one who sees a possible lawsuit looming? I mean it is the same concept that Malibu has. I have read through malibus patent but I'm sure it's somewhere along the lines of a device that changes the rate at which water moves past the boat (in more technical terms, of course)
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       01-05-2013, 9:06 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifinallygota21v View Post
Am I the only one who sees a possible lawsuit looming? I mean it is the same concept that Malibu has. I have read through malibus patent but I'm sure it's somewhere along the lines of a device that changes the rate at which water moves past the boat (in more technical terms, of course)
I would go into details on why, but given reaction to previous posts I will simply say no, it is different enough.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       01-06-2013, 4:44 AM Reply   
I would be surprised if litigation does not ensue. How many companies have had to pay nautique licensing fees relative to wakeboard towers - despite drastically different designs - which all achieve the same basic result; an elevated tow point...
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       01-06-2013, 5:29 AM Reply   
I thought the same with MC/tige with clamping racks but haven't heard anything...perhaps because it's a 3rd party product
It will be Interesting to see what happens. Think About how many patents and things there are in this Industry... I feel like their could be violations left and right. Easiest example would be Tige's convexv/taps2 patent granted I have no idea how patents and laws work on a complex level but in theory wouldn't any boat that eliminated hook in the transom and used a trim tab be in violation? What about wedge vs switchblade? The list goes on and on

Also this is much more similar to the hydrogate than surf gate but you are the lawyer here chatt and much more knowledgable than I on the subject. At least I think you're a lawyer hahaha
Old    Scott (scottb7)      Join Date: Oct 2012       01-06-2013, 7:22 AM Reply   
Does anyone here play a lawyer on TV? Maybe they could help.
Old    Kevin Kimball (Kjkimball)      Join Date: Mar 2011       01-06-2013, 7:30 AM Reply   
The NSS is more like the QL trim tab system. To me, it appears the Nautique guys took the basic idea of this blade style trim system and designed a new concept that has the plate extend out on the hull side and the running surface. Look up the QL tabs. Simple, clean, work well.

Did Malibu patent the surf gate system or simply trademark the name surf gate? So many people confuse the meaning and value of these two terms. Looks like I cannot find a patent for this type of surf gate for Malibu. I do see Malibu has filed for the trademark name but it has not yet been granted in full as it is in the opposition window now. If it is not patented, pretty much anyone can do what they want in a similar design, just can't call it by the same name IF Malibu is granted the trademark in a few months.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       01-06-2013, 7:43 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottb7 View Post
Does anyone here play a lawyer on TV? Maybe they could help.
No ,but i stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       01-06-2013, 9:39 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattwake View Post
I would be surprised if litigation does not ensue. How many companies have had to pay nautique licensing fees relative to wakeboard towers - despite drastically different designs - which all achieve the same basic result; an elevated tow point...
The specific issue on that patent is a tower that mounts with four points to the hull. Malibu (and others now) were able to get around that by adopting a two point mounting system. So the net result, an elevated tow point, is the same; however the patented method behind it is no longer violated.

In the same way, I don't think delaying convergence of the wake via an interceptor is a patent-able idea, but the means to do that is. While Malibu relies on a horizontal setup, CC went with a vertical system.

Many times, a small tweak to an existing system is all that needed to avoid litigation over patents. In this case, even though the net result is the same, the methods of going about it are rather unique.

The specific theories in fluid dynamics that are being demonstrated by these two systems is shown below:
Attached Images
 
Old    Scott (scottb7)      Join Date: Oct 2012       01-18-2013, 7:58 PM Reply   
The x10 surf wake did look super clean...and mc has the good old fashioned trim tabs....
Old     (WakeDirt)      Join Date: Jun 2011       01-18-2013, 8:15 PM Reply   
Any DIY out there yet?
Old    Eric (wakeboardin2k4)      Join Date: Sep 2006       01-24-2013, 2:22 PM Reply   
Nautique Stole Surfgate
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            01-24-2013, 2:37 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakeboardin2k4 View Post
Nautique Stole Surfgate
How do u figure?? Two different mechanical setups. Have you found out what the patent says yet?
Old    Eric (wakeboardin2k4)      Join Date: Sep 2006       01-24-2013, 3:04 PM Reply   
I understand they function differently mechanically. Patent or no patent, who came out with it first? Malibu was working on that project for a year and a half before releasing it, and Nautique came out with NSS 6 months after surfgate came out. How can you disagree that they stole surfgate?

Nautique is using a transom mounted mechanical device to change the way the water travels around the boat on the opposite side of where the surfer is riding. Which is exactly what Malibu created.

Its exactly like the tower and the wedge. Correct Craft has the patent for the wakeboard tower. Thats why Malibu, Mastercraft and other tower manufacturer pays a royalty to Correct Craft for each tower they put on a boat. Everyone else stole the tower, they just did it in a different way mechanically!

Correct Craft did an awesome job with that patent. I'm sure getting paid for every tower that comes out helps Nautique be the company that they are.

How didn't they steal surfgate?
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            01-24-2013, 3:11 PM Reply   
Guess they stole the boat idea too from someone else jk inhear ya...if anything it forces all manufacturers to come up with something. They all take ideas/products & tweak them. Hopefuly itll force malibu to sell retrofit kits.
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       01-24-2013, 4:17 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattieK27 View Post
The specific issue on that patent is a tower that mounts with four points to the hull. Malibu (and others now) were able to get around that by adopting a two point mounting system. So the net result, an elevated tow point, is the same; however the patented method behind it is no longer violated.

In the same way, I don't think delaying convergence of the wake via an interceptor is a patent-able idea, but the means to do that is. While Malibu relies on a horizontal setup, CC went with a vertical system.

Many times, a small tweak to an existing system is all that needed to avoid litigation over patents. In this case, even though the net result is the same, the methods of going about it are rather unique.

The specific theories in fluid dynamics that are being demonstrated by these two systems is shown below:
Good Figure!
Old    Austin (austin)      Join Date: Apr 2010       01-24-2013, 5:24 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakeboardin2k4 View Post
Nautique Stole Surfgate
Lol. Funny and kind of true.

When Malibu first came out with surf gate it seemed pretty clear that they had actually come up with a "game-changer"--something that everyone was going to want on their boats due to the convenience. The hardcores can (and did) bash it all they want, but for most people convenience is king. Anyone who's ever grumbled about having to move a ballast bag from one side of the boat to the other for a goofy rider was going to love the surf gate. My thought was, "uh oh, Malibu's going to take some market share from all the other boat companies, and there won't be anything they can do if Malibu wants to hold their feet to the fire over the patent."

I think Nautique has come out with a big win here. They definitely stole Malibu's breakthrough discovery, but they are using a patent-litigation-safe-different-enough method to achieve the same result. And frankly, the surf wakes in the Nautique videos look a lot better to me than the Malibus' surf wakes. Now if only the G23 didn't have the size, weight, and cost of a house...
Old    Dave (schmo)      Join Date: Oct 2003       01-25-2013, 8:21 AM Reply   
Apparently what Nautique has done is different enough that they are applying for their own patent.

With regards to stealing, who knows what happened. In my experience, these type of features from start to production ready take way longer than 6 months. There is significant research, design, testing, retooling, retesting that needs to be done before releasing. They also had to test this out on several of their boats. I find it hard to believe that they didn't start working on this BEFORE Malibu released their solution. Maybe it was possible for them to come up with a different way to do a similar thing and have it ready for production in 6 months, but I would bet against that.
Old    Detox (bass10after)      Join Date: Feb 2010       01-25-2013, 9:50 AM Reply   
although the end result is the same with both devices, nautique's design is the one i'd prefer to have. its more compact, takes less articulation and aesthetically less invasive to the look of the boat. Its nice to see two different approaches on how to get from point A to B though. I'd like to see somthing that extends down from the bottom running surface of the boat and just flat out makes a massive wave (creating a deeper hull) ... and no tige didn't come up with that already. Their invention does not pass go, does not collect 200 doll hairs.
Old    Eric (wakeboardin2k4)      Join Date: Sep 2006       01-25-2013, 10:06 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by schmo View Post
Apparently what Nautique has done is different enough that they are applying for their own patent.

With regards to stealing, who knows what happened. In my experience, these type of features from start to production ready take way longer than 6 months. There is significant research, design, testing, retooling, retesting that needs to be done before releasing. They also had to test this out on several of their boats. I find it hard to believe that they didn't start working on this BEFORE Malibu released their solution. Maybe it was possible for them to come up with a different way to do a similar thing and have it ready for production in 6 months, but I would bet against that.
Has Nautique been sending any boats out of the factory yet with NSS? Im not postive about this, but from what I have heard they have two prototype boats with the NSS equipped on them but have not been actually shipping boats equipped with NSS. DONT TAKE MY WORD ON THAT THOUGH!

The reason I ask that question is because just like you said it takes more than 6 months to gear up and be capable of implementing something like NSS on all of their boats.

When malibu released surfgate they were ready to ship boats with surfgate for the start of 2013 model year.

Nautique however did a web seminar with all their dealers late one night before the night before start of boat show season dropping NSS saying that they will be OFFERING it on 2013 boats but they had nothing more than a banner at the NYC boat show about NSS. And like I said, to my knowledge they have not been producing boats with NSS yet, but i could be incorrect on that
Old    Mark (biggator)      Join Date: Jul 2010       01-25-2013, 4:39 PM Reply   
I was at the factory on 1/9 and there were no NSS being installed - they said they were waiting for some parts from a supplier, I believe.
Old    Scott (scottb7)      Join Date: Oct 2012       01-25-2013, 6:42 PM Reply   
Seems like from nautique forum website, that there are many items that are always waiting for parts. I would say - and i own one - that nautique is as good a marketing company then a boat manufacturing company.

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