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Old    Tings (tings00)      Join Date: Aug 2005       12-14-2012, 10:06 AM Reply   
What type of scum goes to an elementary school and shoots kids. Latest count I heard was 26 dead, including 18 kids and the shooter
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/14...ool/?hpt=hp_t1
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       12-14-2012, 10:17 AM Reply   
This is why teachers need to be armed. WTF is wrong with people.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       12-14-2012, 10:26 AM Reply   
good lord, I hope I never live in a world where "teachers *need* to be armed."

Can't imagine what the parents are going through.
Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       12-14-2012, 10:38 AM Reply   
^^^were getting mighty close to that world unfortunately.
Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       12-14-2012, 10:53 AM Reply   
I'd like to reprise what I said in the Oregon Mall Shooting thread, but with a slight modification. Don't put armed guards in malls/theaters PUT THEM ALL AT SCHOOLS!!!

This makes me so sad.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       12-14-2012, 10:59 AM Reply   
This is a new low, f**ked up stuff.


Columbine I can understand (does that make me a monster?) .... kids getting bullied so they go in and shoot up the people responsible.... ok, I can understand why it happen, certainly don't agree with it, but I understand their motives... but the **** today, what is going on??!! I am waiting for the report that confirms the shooter was bat**** crazy for years, because that is the only way I can understand this.
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       12-14-2012, 11:20 AM Reply   
This IMO is only going to strengthen CCW permits and people's reason to go buy a gun.
If having a gun and carrying it makes you feel safe why shouldn't you. Their is no ideal law or solution that can make everyone happy. We are a nation of guns and" I think that's a good thing" if you try regulating it more all you do is make it harder for good law abiding citizens to get a gun.
If you want to be a ass and harm innocent people your going to find a way no matter what laws are in place. As far as this particular shooting what would be wrong with locking down schools so just not anyone can walk on campus.
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       12-14-2012, 11:58 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
good lord, I hope I never live in a world where "teachers *need* to be armed."

Can't imagine what the parents are going through.
Seriously? How many more kids have to die for you to change your mind? If ONE teacher in that building had a gun, the death toll could have been greatly reduced.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       12-14-2012, 12:07 PM Reply   
As a parent of an elementary school student, this makes me sad, and scares the **** out of me. What's to stop some coward from walking onto my kids school campus and shooting her? If people are getting to the point where they'll shoot 6-10 year old children, then we're living in a much scarier place than I ever imagined.

Home school is sounding better and better.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       12-14-2012, 12:13 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by psudy View Post
Seriously? How many more kids have to die for you to change your mind? If ONE teacher in that building had a gun, the death toll could have been greatly reduced.
How can you say that with such certainty? None of us have all of the details of what happened and to proclaim that one armed teacher "could have greatly reduced the death toll" is asinine and bull-headed. It may have been reduced, but it also could have been greater. The only sure-fire way that the death toll could have been greatly reduced would be for that creep not to have a gun in the first place.
Old    Train (ttrigo)      Join Date: Dec 2004       12-14-2012, 12:15 PM Reply   
Sounds like his mom was a teacher at the school at some point. Both his parents found dead in their home.

Not gonna lie. I teared up pretty good at the gym this morning. As a father of a kindergartner, it scared the bejeezus out of me, and then just made me sad. I will never, ever understand the mindset of mass murdrerers. Especially those who feel the need to kill innocent children.
I am now sitting on my couch eating lunch with my daughter, and am pretty certain she is not leaving my sight today.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       12-14-2012, 12:18 PM Reply   
Quote:
How can you say that with such certainty? None of us have all of the details of what happened and to proclaim that one armed teacher "could have greatly reduced the death toll" is asinine and bull-headed.
Could very well have been a student teach.

Agreed with quoted, until we know the details not much can be said besides trying to offer support to the families in some way or another.
Old    Ifishok™ (ifishok)      Join Date: Mar 2002       12-14-2012, 12:18 PM Reply   
This goes to show you that you can have all the laws on the books you want, but nothing is going to stop the evil that people do. As a parent I am heartbroken, as a gun owner, I'm mad as hell because this will be used against us as usual. This State is ranked 5th by the Brady Campaign for their gun laws, the school is a no gun zone and this State has a "May Issue" for CCW's


http://www.bradycampaign.org/stategunlaws/

http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_ca...formation.html

Truly a very sad day in America when the Laws to protect you, prevent you from protecting others.
Attached Images
File Type: pdf 2011_Brady_Campaign_State_Scorecard_Rankings.pdf (70.8 KB, 98 views)
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       12-14-2012, 12:39 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by psudy View Post
Seriously? How many more kids have to die for you to change your mind? If ONE teacher in that building had a gun, the death toll could have been greatly reduced.
My mom was a career teacher. So we socialized with many teachers while I was growing up. Lots of my now adult family friends are teachers. I'd guess I know and have known more teachers than most people.

If we are going to restrict teachers to those who would (a) be willing to carry a firearm and (b) be proficient with a firearm, you are going to remove a great many teachers from the classroom. Teachers should be teachers because they can teach, not because of their marksmanship.
Old    Jarod Craig (wake26)      Join Date: Mar 2009       12-14-2012, 1:08 PM Reply   
Very very sad to hear what happend today. I work at a school and I agree with "G" lock down the schools make everybody that needs to be in the school have an Id badge. make it where they have to buzz in to even get into the school. It would surprise you how easy it is to just walk into schools with nobody caring who you are. You are sapposed to check in at are school and get a visitor badge before you can walk the halls but I stop people all the time that just walk in and walk by the big check in sign and and go to classrooms and pick up there kids. Whats crazy is how pissed people get when you make them go back and check in.
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       12-14-2012, 1:23 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake26 View Post
Very very sad to hear what happend today. I work at a school and I agree with "G" lock down the schools make everybody that needs to be in the school have an Id badge. make it where they have to buzz in to even get into the school. It would surprise you how easy it is to just walk into schools with nobody caring who you are. You are sapposed to check in at are school and get a visitor badge before you can walk the halls but I stop people all the time that just walk in and walk by the big check in sign and and go to classrooms and pick up there kids. Whats crazy is how pissed people get when you make them go back and check in.
I can tell you at the school my mother teaches at you must get "buzzed" in to even get in the front door, and they meet you at the front door. They then check with the requested person to be visited. This makes it difficult for me to surprise her when I unexpectedly visit, but I more than understand it. There is also an armed security guard and and assigned Sheriff at the middle and high schools.
Old    Jo Shmoe (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       12-14-2012, 1:25 PM Reply   
" what would be wrong with locking down schools so just not anyone can walk on campus."
That is pretty much the standard now everywhere in America, all doors are locked from the outside and the front entrance door has a person who buzzes people in, then, if they are not a student or teacher, they have to swipe their license and have to have a reason for being there. Also, there is a cop assigned to the school district that can be anywhere in a few minutes.
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       12-14-2012, 1:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
My mom was a career teacher. So we socialized with many teachers while I was growing up. Lots of my now adult family friends are teachers. I'd guess I know and have known more teachers than most people.

If we are going to restrict teachers to those who would (a) be willing to carry a firearm and (b) be proficient with a firearm, you are going to remove a great many teachers from the classroom. Teachers should be teachers because they can teach, not because of their marksmanship.
I should have been more specific. I am not advocating arming ALL teachers, but feel there should be a program where some adm. people have to get training and carry. It would be a hell of a lot cheaper than putting a cop in every school. It would also be a deterent. I know guns are not the answers to everything and will not prevent all tragedies, but feel we must do something to protect our children.
Old    Ken (kenv)      Join Date: May 2002       12-14-2012, 2:04 PM Reply   
After being a participant in the Mall shooting thread also, I was shocked to hear this news today. My 2nd grade daughter is now home after school and it's sad some parents will never have that feeling again....taken away by this POS human being. My 6 grader will be home in about 30 mins when I will tell her to always be on the lookout and be ready to dive for cover. Joeshmoe mentioned some good points about having an officer ready minutes away...but these teachers and kids don't have minutes..they have just seconds. They probably didn't even have a chance to dive or move for cover. Sad and terrible. As I was reading through these posts about teachers carrying.....a thought came to my mind....do I have to have my daughter wear some type of kevlar/bullet proof vest under her clothes?? What kind of message does that send to our little ones. This has to be really hard for the ones left behind to understand why this happend to their friends. My neighbors house was broken into today and crazies are shooting kids in school. WTF is this world coming to??
Old    Mik (norcalrider)      Join Date: Jun 2002       12-14-2012, 2:15 PM Reply   
Just confirms my belief that there is good and evil in this world.
Old    GD (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       12-14-2012, 2:43 PM Reply   
Completely wretched humanity.

Sadly, IMO, this also proves that there is NO all loving all knowing all powerful god.

I also expect a new wave of gun laws.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       12-14-2012, 3:31 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by psudy View Post
I should have been more specific. I am not advocating arming ALL teachers, but feel there should be a program where some adm. people have to get training and carry. It would be a hell of a lot cheaper than putting a cop in every school. It would also be a deterent. I know guns are not the answers to everything and will not prevent all tragedies, but feel we must do something to protect our children.
Again, I don't want to limit the pool of administrators to those who are willing to gun down an armed intruder. That is not the role of a principal or counselor. That's the role of law enforcement. Put a LEO at every school, but please please please don't give a gun to every Middle Aged administrator who takes a weekend inservice.
Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       12-17-2012, 4:22 PM Reply   
Clearly this happened because Conn. OK'd gay marriage.

Good to see Anonymous going after these scumbags: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/12..._baptist_hack/
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       12-17-2012, 4:30 PM Reply   
^The funny thing is, I think we have a few of their members that regularly post on this very forum. Wonder if they'll hack their WW accounts???
Old    Someone Else (deltahoosier)      Join Date: Jun 2002       12-18-2012, 2:46 PM Reply   
Have not really read this thread but it is good to know that God is yet again to blame at the end of it all. Keep following that leftist handbook. God is to blame and so are his followers especially since I am sure this kid was down at the ol bible revival before he struck.
Old    Melissa (psych3060)      Join Date: Sep 2002       12-18-2012, 3:57 PM Reply   
I am so sick and sad that this has been turned into a yet another way for either side to push their political agendas. I have cried a million and one tears on and off since Friday because although I did not know Mary Scherlach, she like me was a school psychologist and she lost her life trying keep children safe. I did not know Dawn Lafferty, the school principal, but I am grateful everyday that I work with someone like her who always puts students first. I did not know Victoria Soto, but I know several teachers who would do just what she died doing, protecting the children she worked with. I did not know any of the precious first graders, but I know my own nearly six year old and I cannot imagine a world that he isn't in. I am so damn sick of this nation and its two sides and its ability to use awful things like this to further their agendas. All I want to do is hug both kids a little tighter everyday before they go to school and hug them just as tight when they get home. I refuse to watch anything the media has to say about this and I am seriously considering deactivating my FB account.
Old    Ron T (Laker1234)      Join Date: Mar 2010       12-18-2012, 4:32 PM Reply   
IMHO, Melissa, you hit on part of problem. Also, the focus should not be on gun control but what causes someone to do something like this.
Old    andy zarlengo (colorider)      Join Date: Jun 2001       12-18-2012, 11:28 PM Reply   
Very well said melissa!!!!!!!!!
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       12-19-2012, 7:49 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laker1234 View Post
IMHO, Melissa, you hit on part of problem. Also, the focus should not be on gun control but what causes someone to do something like this.
Why not? Without the guns, this doesn't happen. You can spin it anyway you want, but you can't hide that fact.
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       12-19-2012, 8:17 AM Reply   
Because criminals and psychopaths don't follow laws Jeremy. Only law abiding citizens do. You could never get all the guns off the streets or force people to give them up. Only stop the sale of new guns. The assault weapon ban will be reimplemented, and I don't think that is a bad thing.
Old    dennis engle (deneng)      Join Date: Feb 2005       12-19-2012, 8:28 AM Reply   
You can't take away the guns from the people who have the right to protect themselves. Come on folks there alot more serious things that we have to solve first. Where are our priorities?
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       12-19-2012, 8:31 AM Reply   
Quote:
Because criminals and psychopaths don't follow laws Jeremy. Only law abiding citizens do.
My problem that is let say you do have a conceal and carry license, any place you've seen a shooting lately bans guns anyways. Mall, schools, businesses, etc.... each property has the right to ban weapons, most all of them do.

So if you are in-fact a law abiding citizen fighting for the greater good, you wouldn't have your gun anyway.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       12-19-2012, 8:33 AM Reply   
The answer -
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       12-19-2012, 9:23 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by psudy View Post
Because criminals and psychopaths don't follow laws Jeremy. Only law abiding citizens do. You could never get all the guns off the streets or force people to give them up. Only stop the sale of new guns. The assault weapon ban will be reimplemented, and I don't think that is a bad thing.
Why is it so easy for criminals and psychopaths to commit violent crimes using firearms? Seems like this kid had no problem getting the necessary guns and ammo (I heard reports he had enough ammo to kill hundreds of kids at the school). Here in Chattanooga (March 2011), we had a convicted felon that was able to get the necessary firepower to hold up a pawn shop. Well, when the cops showed up, a Wild West-style shootout ensued and a cop was murdered. He bought the firearms, not from an underground gun criminal, but a gun-show type dealer. Well, the seller is on trial now, but only because the FBI told him he needed a FFL to continue selling guns and he didn't comply. When asked why he didn't do some sort of background check before selling the shooter the guns, he responded with "Well, I asked him if he was a felon and he said no". WTF? But when they try to crack down on these "gun-show dealers", the NRA comes to flex their muscle and here in TN, the NRA spent thousands to get a pro-2nd amendment, GOP candidate defeated simply because she opposed a proposed state bill allowing employees to legally bring their firearms onto their employer's property.

How many reports do you see on the news about the "responsible gun owner's" kid getting a hold of the gun and accidentally shooting themselves or their buddy?

Last edited by wake77; 12-19-2012 at 9:26 AM.
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       12-19-2012, 9:43 AM Reply   
I won't disagree with you that the process should be harder to get them. Gun shows need to have the same requirments as anyone else. I will not agree with you that all guns should be banned(if thats what youre getting at.)
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       12-19-2012, 9:47 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by sidekicknicholas View Post
My problem that is let say you do have a conceal and carry license, any place you've seen a shooting lately bans guns anyways. Mall, schools, businesses, etc.... each property has the right to ban weapons, most all of them do.

So if you are in-fact a law abiding citizen fighting for the greater good, you wouldn't have your gun anyway.
My point had nothing to do with CC.

I found out here in KS, you can carry a gun unconcealed most anywhere you want(except federal buildings) and the signs do not pretain to unconcealed. You may be asked to leave though.
Old    plhorn (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       12-19-2012, 3:14 PM Reply   
"You can't take away the guns from the people who have the right to protect themselves. Come on folks there alot more serious things that we have to solve first. Where are our priorities? "-Dennis Engal

Explain to me what we have to solve that is "more serious" than keeping kids from getting shot up at school?
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       12-19-2012, 3:14 PM Reply   
Quote:
The only sure-fire way that the death toll could have been greatly reduced would be for that creep not to have a gun in the first place.
OK, how do you keep the lawless from getting guns? Let me guess, pass laws. genius!

Why not just make it illegal to go on shooting sprees? oh wait...


The real answer is to stop ignoring red flags of psychos in the making and institutionalize them permanently. They don't just grow overnight. Give life sentences for any armed robbery\assault.
Old    plhorn (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       12-19-2012, 3:31 PM Reply   
All evidence points to the killers Mom being a law abiding citizen. Most of the guns used in these kind of mass killings are legal. If you make them illegal you won't be taking them away from the drug dealers who are killing other drug dealer but you will take them away from the moms of future mass killers.

Is your right to play cowboy and have fun with your noisy toy more important than keeping our kids alive?

And yes we should have better mental health as well. But people will fall through those cracks just like they will fall through the gun law cracks, doesn't mean we shouldn't try. We can stop some of these situations from happening and all it costs is your weekend hobbie. Why don't you use the money and time that you'll have without your guns to wakeboard?
Old    Train (ttrigo)      Join Date: Dec 2004       12-19-2012, 3:39 PM Reply   
All evidence points this mom to either being in complete denial about her kids mental state, or she was a horrible human being who let her mentally ill child have access to her guns. Ether way, i blame the mom right now, until more evidence comes to light that she was forced to hand over her guns to her mentally ill son.

Well said Melissa. Its hard enough on those effected by it way out here in cali, but it has to be even tougher on educators like yourself.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       12-19-2012, 4:08 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_ssr View Post
OK, how do you keep the lawless from getting guns? Let me guess, pass laws. genius!

Why not just make it illegal to go on shooting sprees? oh wait...


The real answer is to stop ignoring red flags of psychos in the making and institutionalize them permanently. They don't just grow overnight. Give life sentences for any armed robbery\assault.
Explain the evidence you have that suggests that kid should have been institutionalized prior to the shooting rampage.
Old    Melissa (psych3060)      Join Date: Sep 2002       12-19-2012, 4:41 PM Reply   
He would never be intstitutionalized, or even hospitalized. Because he was too bright! I have seen many kids like Adam Lanza over the years and time and time again parents are told, they are too high functioning to benefit from services. They can access the curriculum, they can sit in class and even participate, but they are not able to socialize or even make sense of the world. I am sorry Train that you blame his mother. I have met his mother so many times (in the figurative sense). She wants what all parents want, for her child to be a functioning member of society, but the system is not set up for that to happen. I sat across from a mom last Thursday who said she feared for herself and her two younger children when her older son is around. He has been receiving support off and on since age 2, but every time he starts doing well in school the proverbial blanket is pulled out from under him. I work in a school in military housing and I am pretty sure that 90% or more of our parents have guns in the home, but not once have I ever considered myself in danger while at work and I have seen some parents go off the rails, as well as students. Like I said before, I am sad that this has once again become an issue for our bipolar (because that is how I feel about our two party system) nation to fight about. However you feel about it, our mental health system fails kids like this and we need to do something about it.
Old    Ron T (Laker1234)      Join Date: Mar 2010       12-19-2012, 6:53 PM Reply   
""Why not? Without the guns, this doesn't happen. You can spin it anyway you want, but you can't hide that fact. "" Gun ownership should always be a right in America. Even if America did ban guns, that would be no help to the people who suffer from a mental illness and then only criminal would have guns. Maybe if the police and school administrators were allowed to do their jobs without having to worry about lawsuits, we would all be better protected?
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       12-19-2012, 7:12 PM Reply   
Melissa, I hope you stick around. You bring a refreshing perspective. Thank you.

Ron, why is the only choice when we talk about gun violence leaving everything as it is or "America banning guns"? That's so laughable. America will never ever in a million zillion years "ban guns." But we might ban 30 shot clips.
Old    Ron T (Laker1234)      Join Date: Mar 2010       12-19-2012, 7:33 PM Reply   
Jeremy, as a teacher, you should know firsthand how difficult and frustrating it is to get students the help they need. If this person were a student in your class and you recognized he could possibly be a threat to others and himself, what could you--or anyone--have legally done? As his neighbor, parent, relative, of friend, what would you have done?
Old    zakman (zacky)      Join Date: Apr 2003       12-19-2012, 8:39 PM Reply   
"Why not? Without the guns, this doesn't happen. You can spin it anyway you want, but you can't hide that fact."

Really? If I remember correctly Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols killed 168 people including 19 children under the age of 6 without firing one shot...
Old    Ron T (Laker1234)      Join Date: Mar 2010       12-19-2012, 10:14 PM Reply   
Shawndoggy, I don't know. Shooting is a fun sport and there are more responsible gun owners than not. The problem I have with banning guns and clips is this--say, for example, a 30 round clip is made illegal, so what's to stop a 29 from being manufactured? If a 10 is made illegal, then what's to stop a 9 from being produced? If I want, let’s say 90 rounds, I but 10, 9 round clips. If someone wants to kill badly enough, that person will find a way. My point is the focus should be on the real problem. How does someone like this person slip through the cracks? And I agree with you. I hope Melissa will stick around.
Old    andy zarlengo (colorider)      Join Date: Jun 2001       12-19-2012, 11:52 PM Reply   
If it were not a gun, it would have been a bomb.
The columbine killings were done with 10 round magazines. Those were magazines that were allowed under the 1st gun ban legislation. Had the ban allowed for 5 round magazines, then they just would have had more magazines. (Notice the use of the term magazine.They are NOT clips.) Very common mistake which is being butchered by the media and even the lawmakers right now. . They are trying to ban and regulate them and don't even know the correct terminology.

Melissa is an amazing person and a good friend. Thanks Melissa for posting what you do. !
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       12-20-2012, 5:00 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by zacky View Post
"Why not? Without the guns, this doesn't happen. You can spin it anyway you want, but you can't hide that fact."

Really? If I remember correctly Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols killed 168 people including 19 children under the age of 6 without firing one shot...
Yeah, and after that tragedy, is anyone able in the US to buy the amounts of ammonia nitrate that were necessary to build that type of bomb? We were quick to make laws about that, so why not guns? We haven't heard of a similar type of incident like that in the US (of that scale) since it happened. We had two significant mass shootings within a week of each other.
Old    Rob VLX (skull)      Join Date: May 2002       12-20-2012, 7:23 AM Reply   
I don't think Adam Lanza should have been intstitutionalized, or even hospitalized... I think someone should have taken him into a field a put a bullet in his head. That way 27 innocent people would have still been alive and one cowardly, sub-human freak would have been eaten by ants and birds. This piece of trash makes me sick. Most special needs children are wonderful kids that are non-violent. This was a piece of garbage that would kill an entire class of 1st graders. The worst mass killing in US History at a school took place in 1927 and the guy used TNT. I think one sure way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun. Most of these cowards instantly kill themselves when armed good guys arrive. Let's put more armed good guys in schools so they can kill sub-human trash when they make an appearance.

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