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Old    Paul Gaetano (PauleyG)      Join Date: Dec 2012       12-04-2012, 5:13 PM Reply   
i think this may incite a small riot but would like to hear form anyone who has surfed the G23 and others in comparison. i currently own a 2012 san team edition and want to upgrade to a better surf wake and boat. i love the quality and fit & finish of my boat but think they missed the boat on surf wake, NO PUN INTENDED. seems like they have concentrated on what got them to the dance
and that is wake board boats. the competition has seen the need to meet the demands of the wake surfer and its evident in the new designs and technology shown in their "wake surf boats".
i believe the g23 is a monster wake board boat that has to somehow morph in to a surf boat.
i have 3 additional piggy back tanks plumbed in my super air 210 and fairly satisfied. i believe the wake is a little short and if you surf back it lacks the push.
after reading many posts it seems like there are many who are a lot more educated than i who can offer a "opinion". i am at best a average weekend warrior surfer.
thanks in advance for reply
Old    Matthew Smith (LKASurfing)      Join Date: Nov 2011       12-04-2012, 5:15 PM Reply   
Enzo
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       12-04-2012, 5:53 PM Reply   
Do you surf Goofy or Regular? How many Peeps in your crew?Where are you located?Will you only be surfing and how important is wakeboarding wake?
Old    Simon (SimonSez)      Join Date: Nov 2012       12-04-2012, 6:21 PM Reply   
Anecdotally, the Enzo's are the best pure surf boats. Lots of peeps here loving on Tige too for their surf wake, specifically, new Z3 and RZ2. MC's X30 and X25 look pretty good when dialed. The X30's wake has a nice lip. Rode the G23 stock and the surf wake was legit though we didn't load up beyond factory. If you have guys surfing goofy try the 23LSV with Surfgate. Stay away from MB as they need a ton of weight.
Old    Paul Gaetano (PauleyG)      Join Date: Dec 2012       12-04-2012, 7:32 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
Do you surf Goofy or Regular? How many Peeps in your crew?Where are you located?Will you only be surfing and how important is wakeboarding wake?
I ride regular in sw fla. Ride with just my wife driving and other half with 2 more peeps.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       12-04-2012, 8:07 PM Reply   
ehhhh have had negative experiences with a 25 surfing simon. good wave, good shape, LOW on push... even with 4k in weight
Old    Simon (SimonSez)      Join Date: Nov 2012       12-04-2012, 8:48 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
ehhhh have had negative experiences with a 25 surfing simon. good wave, good shape, LOW on push... even with 4k in weight
Never felt push was an issue, though not on par with an Enzo, I like how far back you can get. Enzo will do it with half the weight too. Though the MC will give you the better wakeboard wake. I'd think the G23 will give you the best combo of wakeboard/wake surf wakes if its in your price range. Haven't surfed the new Star to compare at this price range.

In my learned (pronounced: learn-Ed) opinion, unless you are an advanced surfer any of these boats will do the trick. But surfing gets boring quick. Go for G23, Z3, MC X25, or Bu 23LSV to make sure the wakeboard wake is honey holed!
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       12-04-2012, 9:43 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonSez View Post
in my learned (pronounced: learn-Ed) opinion, unless you are an advanced surfer any of these boats will do the trick. But surfing gets boring quick. Go for G23, Z3, MC X25, or Bu 23LSV to make sure the wakeboard wake is honey holed!
bringo! exactly my thinking

i just felt with 25 even with ll the weight, running PP on rpm mode as well, the push runs out about 7.5 feet back, vs 15+ you get on the tige's (just my word of cautions, have also had problems with that 25's wakeboard wake)
Old    Simon (SimonSez)      Join Date: Nov 2012       12-04-2012, 9:48 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
bringo! exactly my thinking

i just felt with 25 even with ll the weight, running PP on rpm mode as well, the push runs out about 7.5 feet back, vs 15+ you get on the tige's (just my word of cautions, have also had problems with that 25's wakeboard wake)
Hmmm, I've had the opposite experience, though the X30 is supposedly MC's surf boat. Tige will do both well and may be the OP's best bet for prob around 10K less than the MC. The 23LSV would be another contender as far as a "jack of all trades" wake boat though I wonder if Bu will be redoing the hull soon.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       12-05-2012, 3:52 AM Reply   
The new Z1 would be the most comparable to your current boat.You could surf on both sides if you wish to progress.The G23 is a good choice also,just bigger than your crew needs.The Enzo makes a excellent surf wave also.
Old    Paul Gaetano (PauleyG)      Join Date: Dec 2012       12-05-2012, 4:40 AM Reply   
Hummm sounds like the g23 is not getting much love...was out on it yesterday doing demo...awesome boat built like a bentley....however still feel the wake is not up to par with the price tag. Especially in stock mode. If you add some Enzo sacks and do some ballast mods you can dial in. However for the price of the rig you should be able to surf right out out of the factory STOCK. I'm looking for a rig to surf without any compromising mod's. I can buy 2 boats for what the g23 cost.
Old    Ryan Woon (TheWoons)      Join Date: Jul 2012       12-05-2012, 8:53 AM Reply   
If you've had bad experiences with the surf or wake board wake on an X25 whoever owned the 25 had no idea what they were doing. The X25 and 30 have two of the best waves in the business with a ton of push when setup correctly. Most people don't have them dialed. You can't just dump 4k lbs in a boat and expect the surf wake to be gold. Every boat needs weight in different places.
Old    Greg Rosson (gregs_place)      Join Date: Sep 2012       12-05-2012, 10:05 AM Reply   
does anyone know the best way to weight a 2010 wakesetter vtx on the left side for surfing?
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       12-05-2012, 12:09 PM Reply   
Simon, here is a MB 23 with about 2400lbs all hidden and automated, is that too much ? Guess it is one ton and a quarter....
Attached Images
 
Old    Simon (SimonSez)      Join Date: Nov 2012       12-05-2012, 12:17 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by surffresh View Post
Simon, here is a MB 23 with about 2400lbs all hidden and automated, is that too much ? Guess it is one ton and a quarter....
That on top of stock? Beauty wake no question.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       12-05-2012, 12:21 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWoons View Post
If you've had bad experiences with the surf or wake board wake on an X25 whoever owned the 25 had no idea what they were doing. The X25 and 30 have two of the best waves in the business with a ton of push when setup correctly. Most people don't have them dialed. You can't just dump 4k lbs in a boat and expect the surf wake to be gold. Every boat needs weight in different places.
so are you telling me that i didnt play with all kinds of different ballast configurations and trim tab locations to no avail? i never said the wake was bad just lacks the push of the other boats in segment... btw i have logged 300+ hours in x-25s so.... about half of that was surfing...

Last edited by simplej; 12-05-2012 at 12:30 PM.
Old    Simon (SimonSez)      Join Date: Nov 2012       12-05-2012, 12:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
so are you telling me that i didnt play with all kinds of different ballast configurations and trim tab locations to no avail? i never said the wake was bad just lacks the push of the other boats in segment...
I'd argue that. It was at least on par with Tige and better than Bu.
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       12-05-2012, 12:43 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonSez View Post
That on top of stock? Beauty wake no question.
No Simon, that is total, 1100 is full stock on one side, about a third (400) on the opposite, a long 800 sack coming from the locker to under the side seats, trim tab at about a third=money wave , some add more weight to the bow but the trim does the same
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       12-05-2012, 12:47 PM Reply   
x25, 750 under the bench, 450 in the locker, stock center, stock corner tank. 3 people on the bench and back seat, trim tabs deployed


dont have any pics of full weight with opposite corner weighted. gains size but push stays the same

Last edited by simplej; 12-05-2012 at 12:51 PM.
Old    Rob Fullerton (Gotmods)      Join Date: Nov 2012       12-05-2012, 1:43 PM Reply   
Maybe the Woons can post some pics and his setup one more time since I'm copying it this winter. It is the best I've seen on a 25. The pic above looks no better then mine stock.
Old    JS (dreamer)      Join Date: Nov 2008       12-05-2012, 1:50 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by surffresh View Post
Simon, here is a MB 23 with about 2400lbs all hidden and automated, is that too much ? Guess it is one ton and a quarter....
Most guys are putting that much in their Enzo's so it can't be too much.
Old    Ryan Woon (TheWoons)      Join Date: Jul 2012       12-05-2012, 4:46 PM Reply   
I have been been behind a lot of boats and the MC's produce as much or more push over any other boat and without question more push then a Centurion. And yes, if you didn't have push with an X25 wake it wasn't setup correctly. Here's a thread with a bunch of pics of our wake. We ramp it up and knock it down a lot depending on who's riding so it's not always in its biggest form. The pic above, that's not a surf wake either Most of our good pics are toward the bottom of my thread. There's a few misc vids but probably ones from early in the season when I was first dialing it in.

http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=794303

Last edited by TheWoons; 12-05-2012 at 4:50 PM.
Old    Ryan Woon (TheWoons)      Join Date: Jul 2012       12-05-2012, 5:05 PM Reply   
There are probably people thinking I'm only saying this because I own an X25. Well, I get a new boat every spring and I continue to buy MC's. An Enzo, RZ4 and most others are cheaper than our boat so if they made a better surf wake I'd buy one, but they don't. The G23 is about the same money and everyone I know that's been behind the G23 hated it, including many pro riders who rode behind it in competition this past summer.
Old    Paul Gaetano (PauleyG)      Join Date: Dec 2012       12-05-2012, 5:12 PM Reply   
What's your formula for dialed in on a g23.. Tried everything still short high strong wake with no length or push. Open to any ideas on someone who actually "dialed in the wake on a g23"
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       12-05-2012, 6:42 PM Reply   
an rz4 is not an ideal surf machine...
woons please explain to me why my set up is wrong... its exactly the same as yours minus 250lbs per bag..
450 in the locker, 750 under the bench, 450 under the passenger helm... you run 600, 900, 350 plus stock, correct? we have tried to run all stock and just center stock and port and the wake still takes some pumping... and if you wanna surf goofy then forget it. trim tabs all moved around and still get the same no push mush. do me afavor and post a pic of your transom

heres our tige rzr ONLY STOCK FROM THE FACTORY 600 on the corner, 200 lb driver and 2 200lb passengers.... add weight and it will swallow children whole ( and equally good on the goofy)
Attached Images
 
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       12-05-2012, 7:04 PM Reply   
Wow!!!!
Old    Ryan Woon (TheWoons)      Join Date: Jul 2012       12-05-2012, 7:42 PM Reply   
We use 2800-2850lbs. All I'm saying is if you had no push something wasn't right.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       12-05-2012, 7:50 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWoons View Post
We use 2800-2850lbs. All I'm saying is if you had no push something wasn't right.
I know. He said their was no push.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       12-05-2012, 8:15 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWoons View Post
We use 2800-2850lbs. All I'm saying is if you had no push something wasn't right.
That set up, the way we set it up, is the best possible wake we get out of it. i dont "just dump 4k" we experimented, the wave still lacks push. like i said ive spent 300+- hours on them driving them or behind them.
Yours is clearly dialed, good for you, i get an amplified version of the pic with me surfing above but with less wash and more curl. goofy ass rooster tail stays as well, and thats with a near identical set up to yours so i cannot recommend an x25 to a hardcore surfer. if it was summer id go out and make a video
Old    Ryan Woon (TheWoons)      Join Date: Jul 2012       12-05-2012, 8:43 PM Reply   
Well if your best isn't as good as our X25 then something isn't setup right with your boat. Period. The same boat can make the same surf wake. I ride with hardcore surfers every week, two of which podium at every surf competition. It's blatantly obvious your wake isn't dialed as well regardless of how many hours you have on it. I KNOW the X25 is good. I have pics, videos, and a whole lot of surfers who have been on our boat and every other boat out there that can attest to it. And I've been behind enough boats to compare ours as well. Everyone has an opinion and you have yours, that's fine. The problem is your opinion is based on a sub par X25 surf wake that isn't what the boats potential is. The few times we had goofy riders setup the goofy side was also pretty good. Bring your boat out and I'll set it up for you. I CAN definitely recommend the X25 to any hardcore surfer, along with the X30 and the X45 as well.

Last edited by TheWoons; 12-05-2012 at 8:49 PM.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       12-05-2012, 8:53 PM Reply   
woons, post/PM me a picture of your transom if you can. this boat is a 2010 and has WAKEBOARD WAKE issues as well. its flat compared the 2011 and 2012 i ride behind, the L word is coming to mind...

but enough of a hiijack, which has shown if anything that an MC cannot be surfed stock which is what the OP is looking for.
Old    Erik Anderson (SurfNerd)      Join Date: Oct 2012       12-05-2012, 9:37 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
... but enough of a hiijack, which has shown if anything that an MC cannot be surfed stock which is what the OP is looking for.
Most newer boats can be surfed stock ... but who the hell would settle for riding a stock wave when there is waaaaaay more potential to be realized?

Let's face it: boat manufacturers won't fully dial in a boat from the factory; there's too much legal risk. You have to take it upon yourself to dial your own boat - and be ready to respond to different lake conditions, different passenger loads and different rider preferences.

To stay on topic, the Z3 is the best stock wave I have ever slayshed. But it still can be improved. Bigtime.
Old    Erik Anderson (SurfNerd)      Join Date: Oct 2012       12-05-2012, 10:07 PM Reply   
Like Ryan, I also own an X-25 (2012) ... and would TOTALLY recommend that boat for anyone looking to surf on a variety of waves (and for riders of varying competence).

I ride goofy and can dial that side in with either a nice looooong wave (way past where you drop the rope) for carves and thruster runs ... or steep up the lip for pulling airs, 3's, shuvs and other skim-style tricks.

My wife and kids ride reg and that side is actually a little easier to dial due to the prop rotation and ease of adding ballast under the port-side seats.

Don't forget to consider adding some ballast in the bow. I often toss a 400lb sac up front, which really adds length to the wave while the push stays consistent.

Very pleased with our X-25, but also think highly of Tige boats.
Old    Simon (SimonSez)      Join Date: Nov 2012       12-06-2012, 6:34 AM Reply   
That's 3 so far chiming in that the X25 makes a world class wake. Simplej is ether a liar, or, more likely, either doesn't know how to dial a boat, or doesn't know how to surf. But why are we even debating this? The Enzo's and Tige's are essentially surf-specific machines. If the OP cares about a good wakeboard wake then we should talk MC/Bu/Cc.

My 2 cents, please don't tax me on those 2 cents Mr. Obama.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       12-06-2012, 7:43 AM Reply   
So 3 x25 owners say their wake is great? surprise surprise. Yea Simone, definitely don't know how how to build a wake. That's why my tige wake looks so good...
Don't know how to surf either, which is why Im complaining about my buddy's 25 not being sufficient, and I'm definitely lying, that's evident by the pic of the 25 wake I posted above...

Surf tabs also had a negative effect on the wakeboard wake and had to be removed. That boat also has an interesting trim tab placement, which is why I was asking about woons transom... But thanks for reaffirming my point that the OP should be looking at a V hulled boat for ease of surf...
Old    Ryan Woon (TheWoons)      Join Date: Jul 2012       12-06-2012, 3:09 PM Reply   
Every time you post it lead me to believe several things, but mainly your buddies boat is jacked and he messed it up in one way or another. If you're having issues with an X25 wake board wake you have big problems. And if your surf tabs had to be removed because they were affecting the wake board wake then your buddy has some pos boat with an X25 sticker and it's not an X25 or something is very wrong. I have no idea how or why you would be having problems with an X25 wake board wake or surf wake. You're the only one on the planet with that issue. Here's the pic you requested.

Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       12-06-2012, 4:13 PM Reply   
[/QUOTE]

i immediately see an issue. The trim tabs on my buddy's 2010 are mounted SIGNIFICANTLY lower... there is OVER an INCH, perhaps even 2 of gap between the drain plug and U in the center of the trim tab that allows for its removal, i should make a pic comparing the 2 wakeboard wakes. i have not surfed the 12 with a good weight set up. it sits flush to the bottom of the hull. yours does not, i see blue underneath it
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       12-06-2012, 4:42 PM Reply   
and yes i promise you this an authentic x25 woons. not just a sticker...

one of these things is not like the other... 2010 and 2012 x25's full stock ballast and a few people. have not surfed the 2012 with proper weight.
Attached Images
  
Old    Simon (SimonSez)      Join Date: Nov 2012       12-06-2012, 5:08 PM Reply   
Correct me if I'm wrong here but isn't the X25's hull a deep vee ocean hull?

The 4th option I didn't consider, simplej's X25 has been tampered with.

An observation: everyone has a brand preference, but most people will acknowledge the merits of other brands. Tige owners though, are vehement and absolute in their hatred of every other brand. Just a rhetorical statement.
Old    Simon (SimonSez)      Join Date: Nov 2012       12-06-2012, 5:10 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
and yes i promise you this an authentic x25 woons. not just a sticker...

one of these things is not like the other... 2010 and 2012 x25's full stock ballast and a few people. have not surfed the 2012 with proper weight.
Whoa! Don't MC's have an auto launch feature that lower all the tabs to help it get on plane? Maybe the tabs are down when they should be up.
Old    Mike V (vman)      Join Date: Jun 2010       12-06-2012, 5:28 PM Reply   
2013 MC X30 Surf Wake
Attached Images
 
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       12-06-2012, 5:50 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonSez View Post
Whoa! Don't MC's have an auto launch feature that lower all the tabs to help it get on plane? Maybe the tabs are down when they should be up.
yes i believe it was new for 2012
and no i dont hate other brands, epic is actually my favorite brand right now BELIEVE DAT! i hate it when people tell me my experiences are wrong, and the 25 has a more modified V that flattens out into a more dish typed shape in back rather then a a true V.
i've posted my pictures and woons posted his, if you had the wake and surf that i pictured you'd have the same response and scoff at the 25. this 25 clearly has issues from the factory...

and yes they do have tabs, they are ALWAYS in the indicated up position, we make sure to retract them when running just in case they come down while the boat is sitting in accessory (yes the tabs move on their own in accessory mode)

and that x30 wake is massive...
Old    TJ (Houstonshark)      Join Date: Jan 2011       12-07-2012, 2:15 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
an rz4 is not an ideal surf machine...
woons please explain to me why my set up is wrong... its exactly the same as yours minus 250lbs per bag..
450 in the locker, 750 under the bench, 450 under the passenger helm... you run 600, 900, 350 plus stock, correct? we have tried to run all stock and just center stock and port and the wake still takes some pumping... and if you wanna surf goofy then forget it. trim tabs all moved around and still get the same no push mush. do me afavor and post a pic of your transom

heres our tige rzr ONLY STOCK FROM THE FACTORY 600 on the corner, 200 lb driver and 2 200lb passengers.... add weight and it will swallow children whole ( and equally good on the goofy)
Here's my RZR, stock surf ballast +500lbs in Pop Bags (in the bow), my wife driving 130lbs and 2 kids 80lbs.

I'm 6'3" for reference and the camera was in the middle of the boat by the ski pylon so no camera angle trickery.



Old    Mitch (wakemitch)      Join Date: Jun 2005       12-07-2012, 2:34 PM Reply   
TJ, try taking the weight out of the bow. Your wake is pretty rounded with no lip. Weight in the back will help you get a defined lip which will help a ton when you want to get air.
Old     (the_duke)      Join Date: Nov 2006       12-07-2012, 3:46 PM Reply   
http://youtu.be/47cY8U85GW4
Old    Davis (kimper)      Join Date: May 2008       12-09-2012, 7:05 PM Reply   
Been behind all those boats surfing regular side except Malibu.
I am buying an MC X-30...

That's 90k of confidence that my decision is sound....
Old    Paul Gaetano (PauleyG)      Join Date: Dec 2012       12-10-2012, 3:21 PM Reply   
g23 what did you have for ballast? stock or any added. what was it you did not like?
thx
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       12-10-2012, 3:30 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimper View Post
Been behind all those boats surfing regular side except Malibu.
I am buying an MC X-30...

That's 90k of confidence that my decision is sound....
So much confidence,so little information shared?
Old    Mike North Carolina (MIKEnNC)      Join Date: Nov 2012       12-11-2012, 7:07 PM Reply   
Tj, how do u like that ronix thruster?

And everyone else on a 1-10 can u rate the rz2 surf wake and wake boarding wake if anyone has personal experience with tige rz2 and other boats, been debating g23 and find the info on this thread troubling
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       12-11-2012, 8:32 PM Reply   
Mike i've surfed and wakeboarded behind a RZ2,but i doubt you will find many people who have surfed behind a G23.A few more have probably wake boarded behind a G23,but probably haven't been in or behind a Tigé.As for the surfing side i would recommend the Phase 5 boards.My wife rides the Colt[locked in] and i ride the Carbon x hybrid [a little looser but stable].The RZ2 is easy to dial in either side surfing. It also has a very adjustable wakeboard wake.As for the G23 i've never ridden behind one,but i'm sure like all Nautiques,the wake is money!
Old    Davis (kimper)      Join Date: May 2008       12-13-2012, 5:49 AM Reply   
Quote:
Been behind all those boats surfing regular side except Malibu.
I am buying an MC X-30..
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
So much confidence,so little information shared?
Ok more info..

Tige Z3 - great boat and great wave! I road behind Ragboys. The wave is no better or worse than the X30 with similar weight. In my particular market (Austin) there is no price difference between the Tige and Mastercraft. However, the Mastercraft exceeds the Tige in fit and finish without question, and the convertible rear seat in the X-30 is awesome.

G23 - Awesome boat! Sadly it was tested with only factory ballast. The wave looked nice but had poor pocket length which is typical with too little weight. I am sure it would have a great wave with more weight.. However, the list price was 140k... The "Ill make you a deal price" was 119k. Simply no point in paying that when the X-30 is 30k cheaper with an AMAZING wave and comparable build quality.

Malibu - tested one 3 years ago for wakeboarding.. Hit a roller at WOT and the boat felt like it was going to explode... No thanks. Surfgate?? I could care less about rapidly switching sides...

Enzo - I have been behind 2. One properly weighted but in somewhat shallow water. One underweighted (at polar bear). I liked the properly weighted wave (Chris Kinsey's boat) It wasn't as tall as some of the waves on the other boats but it had a nice long pocket. The height may have been a function of the relatively shallow water (8-10 feet) in San Angelo's lake. This boat may have been a contender but there is not a reliable dealer in Austin area.

There are the details!

Last edited by kimper; 12-13-2012 at 5:52 AM.
Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       12-13-2012, 6:32 AM Reply   
X30 and G23 are both great boats. Kimper I think you owe it to yourself to go back to your local dealer and take a second look at a G23 or try and renegotiate or possibly look at other options on a G to reduce price. The X30 is a great boat too, but if you think you're getting a similar package for 30k less I assue you, you are not. If surf wave is all that's important than why buy a flagship companies boat anyway? Why not go buy a less expensive Tige (still a great boat) and load it up and get a great wave? Either way you should drive both before making a decision and give your dealers the opportunity to be competitive so that you could possibly get the boat you really want. An X30 is going to have less bow space, free board, horse power, etc. A typical engine for that boat would be a 6.0LT engine. Ilmore 6.0LT do not come standard with fresh water cooling and have under 400HP while the PCM has standard fresh water cooling as well as 409HP. You won't have a sub floor cooler which frees up tons of storage space and I could go on and on about other specs but I don't want this to turn into a this boat is better than that boat. I can assure you there is a significant difference between both boats and while if money is the primary cause for going with the X30 than I understand. If money is not an option and you think you're gettnig a similar boat for 30k less than I assure you again, you are not.
Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       12-13-2012, 6:35 AM Reply   
I have also posted surf wave pictures of the G23 on WW. If you look back at the thread with the red G23 you will see the pics. Can't remember the title of the thread.
Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       12-13-2012, 6:42 AM Reply   
G23 Surf Wave
Attached Images
 
Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       12-13-2012, 6:44 AM Reply   
A little lippy in this pic but could definitely crouch down and get a little barrel over your head. Also with the NCRS system you can adjust that lip and mellow it out as well.
Old    Ryan Woon (TheWoons)      Join Date: Jul 2012       12-13-2012, 8:12 AM Reply   
That G23 is VERY washy all the way down and would suck to surf.
Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       12-13-2012, 8:39 AM Reply   
Are you speaking from experience or judging by the pic? This was taken within the first hour of testing the surf wave and while the NCRS was on auto. If you take it out of auto (as stated above) and adjust to personal preference, the surf wave cleans up with no wash. Check out any Nautique video of the surfing a G23, no wash.
Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       12-13-2012, 8:43 AM Reply   
Any wash on the lip of that wake?
Attached Images
 
Old    TJ (Houstonshark)      Join Date: Jan 2011       12-13-2012, 11:29 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKEnNC View Post
Tj, how do u like that ronix thruster?
I like it I guess, but I don't surf much and have never surfed another board. It took me awhile to figure out the fin configuration that I like (only the 2.3" fins in the forward most outside locations).

Sorry, I'm not much help there.
Old    Mike V (vman)      Join Date: Jun 2010       12-14-2012, 10:09 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by PauleyG View Post
i think this may incite a small riot but would like to hear form anyone who has surfed the G23 and others in comparison. i currently own a 2012 san team edition and want to upgrade to a better surf wake and boat. i love the quality and fit & finish of my boat but think they missed the boat on surf wake, NO PUN INTENDED. seems like they have concentrated on what got them to the dance
and that is wake board boats. the competition has seen the need to meet the demands of the wake surfer and its evident in the new designs and technology shown in their "wake surf boats".
i believe the g23 is a monster wake board boat that has to somehow morph in to a surf boat.
i have 3 additional piggy back tanks plumbed in my super air 210 and fairly satisfied. i believe the wake is a little short and if you surf back it lacks the push.
after reading many posts it seems like there are many who are a lot more educated than i who can offer a "opinion". i am at best a average weekend warrior surfer.
thanks in advance for reply
I guess you were right about inciting some spirited banter. But, that's ok. All of us are passionate about our wake boats and what they can do when it comes to a surf wake. It all comes down to a personal preference based on what you are looking for ala price, finish, options, etc...

I have personally surfed behind every one of these manufacturers and can guarantee they will all produce a nice sizable surf wake. Some may be harder to 'dial in' than others. We decided to go with MC because we have a dealer in the area, which makes it easy for periodic MX (something else to consider before purchase). We have stayed with MC because we like the product, and we have not found any other platform that produces a surf wake that would give us any reason to switch.

Do as many demos as you can before deciding. A dealer that would let you sack out his boat will be serious about selling his product.
Old     (newwhit)      Join Date: Mar 2007       12-14-2012, 1:43 PM Reply   
vman,

that x 30 wave looks unreal. can you explain your setup a bit or did i miss that up there somewhere?

thanks
Old    Mike V (vman)      Join Date: Jun 2010       12-14-2012, 9:03 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by newwhit View Post
vman,

that x 30 wave looks unreal. can you explain your setup a bit or did i miss that up there somewhere?

thanks
Thanks new. We have had the 30 since September and have already put 90 hours of surfing on the boat. The setup is really easy for the X30 and the surf wake is good on both sides. We fill all stock tanks and then put all the external ballast on the back surf side. For the reg side we have a FH 750 port locker, FH 750 under bench seat, 350 in lead between the two. For the goof side just move as much of the weight as you can to the other side. We will ad a FH 400 on the bench seat with less than 4 riders. We do not use the surf tabs, but will use the center tab for rider preference.
Old    Greg Rosson (gregs_place)      Join Date: Sep 2012       12-14-2012, 9:46 PM Reply   
I have a general question. i have been reading in this thread and other threads that you all fill up all of the ballast tanks then add additional weight to the surfing side. what purpose does filling up the non surfing side serve?
Old    Mike V (vman)      Join Date: Jun 2010       12-15-2012, 4:19 AM Reply   
Gregs. The idea of which tanks to fill and where to put the weight comes from hours of trial and testing. This is the "dialing in process" and each boat hull is unique and requires a different distribution. What we found on the X30 was that by adding some counter balance weight to the 'non surf side' it added size and push to the overall surf wake.
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       12-15-2012, 5:06 AM Reply   
not that anyone asked.....BUT....this is what a big clean surf wake should look like with a firm lip, she is 5'6", the boat has about 2400 total plus driver and 2 crew, on this boat (MB 23 B52V) it cleans up and get's bigger with weight on the other side plus a bit of trim, no weight in the bow
Attached Images
 
Old    James Harold (jdjjamesz)      Join Date: Mar 2008       12-17-2012, 8:23 AM Reply   
those are some great wakes..
Old     (WakeDirt)      Join Date: Jun 2011       12-17-2012, 5:12 PM Reply   
Whos MB is that surffresh and where is the weight placed?
Old    Bill Smeltzer (runin90lx)      Join Date: Sep 2009       12-17-2012, 9:10 PM Reply   
Wake dirt. That is his boat.
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       12-18-2012, 6:29 AM Reply   
@ W dirt, it's my demo (for sale) just under half stock opposite side (500), full stock ride side (1150) plumed in gravity games center sack about 8' long =1100 running from the back locker to under the seats on ride side but it only holds about 7 to 800 before it overflows and blows the seats up. So the total would be close to 500 +1150+800= 2450
Old    Josh Diaz (steezin4noreason)      Join Date: Mar 2009       12-18-2012, 9:52 AM Reply   
I have surfed the G23 and thought it was really fun with factory ballast and 6-7 people. Had to dial it in a bit with the plate as mentioned above but once we got it figured out the wake stayed clean and it was easy to stay in the pocket. I REALLY like a loaded 230 for surfing which is what I have surfed most behind. Has anyone surfed behind the new X-Star? I heard a guy in Texas returned one because he couldn't get a surf wake out of it.
Old    Mark (biggator)      Join Date: Jul 2010       12-18-2012, 1:34 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by steezin4noreason View Post
I have surfed the G23 and thought it was really fun with factory ballast and 6-7 people. Had to dial it in a bit with the plate as mentioned above but once we got it figured out the wake stayed clean and it was easy to stay in the pocket. I REALLY like a loaded 230 for surfing which is what I have surfed most behind. Has anyone surfed behind the new X-Star? I heard a guy in Texas returned one because he couldn't get a surf wake out of it.
I did.. I wrote about it in another thread. I was not impressed with the Xstar at all for surfing.
Old    JS (dreamer)      Join Date: Nov 2008       12-22-2012, 7:23 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by vman View Post
Thanks new. We have had the 30 since September and have already put 90 hours of surfing on the boat. The setup is really easy for the X30 and the surf wake is good on both sides. We fill all stock tanks and then put all the external ballast on the back surf side. For the reg side we have a FH 750 port locker, FH 750 under bench seat, 350 in lead between the two. For the goof side just move as much of the weight as you can to the other side. We will ad a FH 400 on the bench seat with less than 4 riders. We do not use the surf tabs, but will use the center tab for rider preference.
Hey Vman, a few questions on your X30

What engine and prop do you have?
How much fuel do you consume per hour wakesurfing?
Is the swim platform stock?
Do you drive in a straight line or slight curve to produce wave?

Thanks,
JS

Last edited by dreamer; 12-22-2012 at 7:33 AM.
Old    Ryan Woon (TheWoons)      Join Date: Jul 2012       12-22-2012, 8:42 AM Reply   
I'm on VMan's boat almost weekly and drive it half the time, same with Mike on our boat.

5.7 Ilmore with stock OJ Prop
with 3000lbs of ballast the boat uses about 7.5-8gph, sometimes less and keep in mind that's a lot of weight and we go faster than most surfers ~11.7-11.8mph GPS)
Stock Fiberglass Platform
Straight line, never at a slight curve.

Last edited by TheWoons; 12-22-2012 at 8:46 AM.
Old    JS (dreamer)      Join Date: Nov 2008       12-23-2012, 8:34 AM Reply   
PCM must be making the most efficient engines right now. The 409 in the Centurion SV244 and the Tige Z3 are using less than 5 gph wakesurfing. What rpm is your engine at when going 11.5 mph?
Old    Ryan Woon (TheWoons)      Join Date: Jul 2012       12-23-2012, 5:40 PM Reply   
That's not an apples to apples. You have to know total weight of the boats, ballast, how the trim tabs are, speed of the riders preference, length of time the riders are surfing versus falling down and getting picked up, etc, etc, etc, etc. It all plays a role in fuel consumption.
Old    Ryan Woon (TheWoons)      Join Date: Jul 2012       12-24-2012, 8:57 AM Reply   
Also forgot to write we could easily get 5gph use if we put in 1500-2000lbs, went 11.0 and trimmed the tabs a bit like most.
Old    JS (dreamer)      Join Date: Nov 2008       12-24-2012, 9:37 AM Reply   
The wake9 boat is running as much ballast as yours and is using 3 gph less. There is an Enzo 244 on the Crew using about the same amount of fuel as the Wake9 but might have a few hundred pounds less ballast. My Mercruser 5.7 in an SV 230 Enzo with 2200 lbs of water ballast and a couple of people is slurping down 8 gph.

The newer models of engines have better fuel management systems along with the catalytic converters. I'd like to see how the 6L would do in the X30.
Old    Mike V (vman)      Join Date: Jun 2010       12-24-2012, 7:38 PM Reply   
Dreamer. TW is absolutely correct on our setup and fuel burn. It's also true that we have seen a burn of close to 6 if we are teaching newbies and running at slower speeds, less weight, and hanging tabs. I am def not an engine expert, and understand that PCM has made some leaps with their power plants. As far as the ILMOR, the proof is in the pudding. We usually rev around 3.0-3.5K at surf speeds, and quiet as a church mouse. I have been very pleased with the product. Not real sure on the 6.0L, but have heard that you probably won't get the return on investment that you hope for. At least when it comes to surfing.
Old    Ryan Woon (TheWoons)      Join Date: Jul 2012       12-26-2012, 10:51 AM Reply   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oItkqqKwEes

Surf Tabs vs Surf Gate
Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       12-26-2012, 10:56 AM Reply   
Not sure how much if any the cooling system has to do with gas consumption but PCM does use a closed cooling system "standard" on all 6.0LT on up. Don't know of any other manufacturers that do that "standard".

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