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Old    Travis Q (motogod77)      Join Date: Aug 2008       11-30-2012, 3:23 PM Reply   
Looking for a little advise . . . . .

I have an 04' F150 Supercrew 5.4 4wd . . . . Truck had a weird miss (pretty severe at times), at low RPM under load or at idle so I replaced the spark plugs, air filter, cleaned the Mass Air Sensor, and coil boots and it almost went away, the only time you could feel it was at 1500 rpm's or less under an extreme light load (almost sounded like it would ping, wied rattle and you can feel it start missing), but the truck ran fine throughout the rest of the RPM range.

A few days ago my battery took a dump so now after replacing the battery the thing barely idles at all, dies pulling into my driveway, and runs horrible at 70 mph running down the freeway, shaking badly, and the computer has dropped my MPG by 4-5, etc, etc . . . . NO Service Engine light.

I don't get it, no codes, I have put maybe 50 miles on it since replacing the battery and it barely idles and randomly will completely fall on its face at freeway speeds and feels like its got a flat tire. I know the Ford dealership is just going to throw parts at it until I either go broke or they fix it and without it throwing a code on a missfire cylinder I don't want to replace all the COP's to the tune of about 300 bucks and it not fix it . . . . . . .

Thoughts, I am going to try and scan it tomorrow again, but I thought I would see what ya'll think. Run intake cleaner through it?? Push it down a boat ramp? I can't replace it right now and its a mint pickup, I like it, just want it to run right.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       11-30-2012, 4:41 PM Reply   
I'm going to forward this to a buddy of mine who has been a ford tech his entire adult life. He's good with the 5.4's.
Old    Brad (bstphen24)      Join Date: Apr 2006       11-30-2012, 4:48 PM Reply   
The last time I had a vehicle that was missing like that and not throwing codes, it was a failing Mass Air Flow sensor. Not sure why OBDII doesn't seem to like to throw a code when clearly the engine misses. It sucks taking shots in the dark on a fix, but that was what ultimately fixed my problem.
Old    Travis Q (motogod77)      Join Date: Aug 2008       11-30-2012, 4:56 PM Reply   
Thanks boardman, I really appreciate it . . . I love the damn truck, but I'm real close to sinking it, thanks again. I have cleaned the MAF Sensor with the MAF cleaner when I did plugs, etc.
Old    Jeff Williams (jwmustangin)      Join Date: Jan 2009       11-30-2012, 6:57 PM Reply   
I have a 2005 f150 supercrew with 117000 miles. I have replaced 5 outta 8 coilpacks. I did my first one at around 100k.

You're gonna have to get it to start missing and then you actually NEED to keep it missing. I believe the ECU has to see the condition for a certain amount of time.... and maybe even for a couple of incidents. The check engine light should start flashing when you get it missing and keep it missing. Then, it will go solid after a certain amount of time.

Once it does this, go scan it with a code reader and you will have the cylinder number where the coil pack needs to be replaced. Looking at the engine from the front of the truck with the hood up:

4 8
3 7
2 6
1 5

Trust me on this. This sounds all too familiar.
Old    Jeff Williams (jwmustangin)      Join Date: Jan 2009       11-30-2012, 7:10 PM Reply   
You could always just buy one coil pack and keep swapping it in until you find your faulty cylinder. That is if you don't have two or more bad at the same time like I did. The first time I experienced this I had cylinders 3 and 4 go bad at the same time. I think they are about 40 to 50 bucks each from autozone or advance auto parts.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       11-30-2012, 7:59 PM Reply   
My buddy just emailed me back and said the EGR valve could be stuck. Not sure if thats a possibility but thats what he thought.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       11-30-2012, 8:09 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardman74 View Post
My buddy just emailed me back and said the EGR valve could be stuck. Not sure if thats a possibility but thats what he thought.
Different vehicle but I had just got rid of a 1994 S10 blazer with the Vortec 4.3L that acted similar and it was a dirty EGR valve that was screwing everything up. My mechanic just cleaned it really good and it ran better than a new car.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       11-30-2012, 8:17 PM Reply   
If you think it might be the coils considering the mileage of your rig I would consider replacing all 8 of them. You should be able to get Standard Motor Products part# FD508 for 50-60 bucks each. The motorcraft number appears to be DG511. As a last resort I can get the Standard coil packs for about $56 your cost plus freight.
Old    9Drozd            11-30-2012, 11:48 PM Reply   
I would say spark plugs, but you've already changed them. IDK. Good luck

Last edited by 9Drozd; 11-30-2012 at 11:53 PM.
Old    Frank Berg (Iceberg)      Join Date: Dec 2011       12-01-2012, 6:28 AM Reply   
It should be throwing codes if it were a misfire. Years ago I had a chaffed wire issue that made it run rough and killed the economy, not that 15mpg was good to start with. It would not show up on the malfunction list since it was intermittent, not once per week, but every few seconds. The tech took it for a drive, forgot to take his cell-phone and it quit during his test drive! The chaffing killed 2 coil-packs as well.

The MAF sensor can do that. It will only throw a code if it is really broke.

Alternator, if your battery voltage goes too low, but the ALT light should come on.

Maybe it is as simple as pulling the power, draining the memory and going through the relearn for the PCM.

LIVE SCANNING is the best way to go to save your hard earned cash. Be glad it's not a diesel. Try the ford forum.
Old    Travis Q (motogod77)      Join Date: Aug 2008       12-01-2012, 8:46 AM Reply   
I will scan it today and she what it says, it has 128K miles and I'm sure all the coil should be replaced, but if that doesn't solve the issue its going to be very frustrating, my cost at O'Reilly is $40.00 each, its still $320.00 bucks (life time warranty coils, but should I run the OEM coils?) . . . I'm thinking trying to clean the throttle body and replace the fuel filter this weekend and see if that helps? I've heard 50/50 . . . some Ford guys says don't clean the throttle body because they have a special coating that the cleaner can ruin and some say you should do it every other oil change?

Where is the EGR on these things, Diesels are my thing and due to buying another house I ended selling my 7.3 and winding up with this little gasser and it driving my nuts. I'm getting a new boat this Spring so my 6.4 PSD will have to wait another year!!!

Nothing was near as bad until I replaced the battery now after the truck warms up it will harldy idle, maybe 300 rpms and sputtering and it spontaneously shutters and misses at freeway speeds and my mileage (on the dash) has gone from a consitant 16-17 to 13-14.

Thank you for your help . . . . . . . . .
Old    Robby Elliott (Elliottsx80)      Join Date: Feb 2012       12-01-2012, 9:14 AM Reply   
first fords pcms suck at picking up misses, i own a shop, 3rd generation owner. more times than not your problem will be a coil. i would check each coil before you just start buying them and sticking them on. you can do so by having someone hold the brake and giving it gas while in gear. just enough gas to make the miss very noticable. then start unplugging one coil at a time and see if the miss changes to a stronger miss or doesnt change at all. if the engine doesnt change when you unplug a coil then thats the bad one. really easy to do... and i would start with the passenger side and go from the back of the motor foward. i see alot fords that have a small seep in the heater core lines and they will leak coolant down on the coils and eventually short them out.... i would also check for a vacume leak... seen that a million times to. listen for some loud or faint hissing when the truck is at idle
Old    Travis Q (motogod77)      Join Date: Aug 2008       12-01-2012, 12:01 PM Reply   
Its seems to miss the worst at idle, just unplug the wire going to the coil one at a time while running, correct? It seems like its more consistant in the rain when it falls on its face down the freeway too. Should I replace with Ford coils or O'Reilly lifetime.
Old    Travis Q (motogod77)      Join Date: Aug 2008       12-01-2012, 12:05 PM Reply   
Its seems to miss the worst at idle, just unplug the wire going to the coil one at a time while running, correct? It seems like its more consistant in the rain when it falls on its face down the freeway too. Should I replace with Ford coils or O'Reilly lifetime?
Old    Robby Elliott (Elliottsx80)      Join Date: Feb 2012       12-01-2012, 1:29 PM Reply   
yea, but if the miss changes be sure to plug it back in. because that means that cylinder is firing, then move on to the next coil. just unplug one at a time until your miss doesnt change. and if you wana test and make sure you got the right coil. when you find the coil you dont think is firing. switch it to another cylinder that you know is firing and see if you miss changes cylinders... shouldnt take you 15 min or so to figure it out.
Old    Robby Elliott (Elliottsx80)      Join Date: Feb 2012       12-01-2012, 1:30 PM Reply   
i would also buy orielys or autozone coil... not worth the xtra $$$ from ford
Old    Robby Elliott (Elliottsx80)      Join Date: Feb 2012       12-01-2012, 1:33 PM Reply   
since it seens to miss under high humidity... rainy conditions.... makes me think even more that its a coil..
Old    Jeff Williams (jwmustangin)      Join Date: Jan 2009       12-01-2012, 6:50 PM Reply   
So, you replaced any coils yet?
Old    TJ (Houstonshark)      Join Date: Jan 2011       12-03-2012, 7:54 AM Reply   
I had a 08 Limited with the 5.4L that did virtually the exact same thing. It started as an occasional miss under light load and progressed to where it limped into the dealership.

Long story short, Ford replaced the motor @ 58,500 miles and said it was an oil pump failure.

I never saw a service engine light or low oil pressure. The heads were getting very little oil and the cam bearings (?) we're scored pretty bad.

Sorry, I know this isn't much help but maybe check your oil level or possibly pull a valve cover to check.
Old    Frank Berg (Iceberg)      Join Date: Dec 2011       12-04-2012, 7:12 AM Reply   
You other comment about the rain making it worse got me thinking. If your CKP (crankshaft position sensor) or CMP (camshaft) are damaged, corroded or have broken wires, that will cause similar issues. The problem is, unless you catch it with live data, it will be intermittent. You will only get a CEL on longer-term failure.
Old    Travis Q (motogod77)      Join Date: Aug 2008       12-04-2012, 10:46 AM Reply   
I haven't had time to do a drop test on the COP's yet, I went to scan it today and the scanner can't communicate with the ECM, my buddy that owns the shops says there is a fuse or something out stopping communication so I think I'm throwing in the towel, I've been too busy to mess with it so I'm gonna drop it with him (my friend's service shop) tomorrow morning and see what they come up with.
Old    Derek Huber (yjwrangler95)      Join Date: Oct 2011       12-04-2012, 12:51 PM Reply   
I had the same problem, same year truck same issue. Replaced the plugs and all 8 coil packs. The ecm has to see a miss from a cylinder to the tune of x thousand times per drive cycle before it will trip and CEL.

I picked up my coil packs off ebay, mine did it at 50,000.
Old    Jeff Williams (jwmustangin)      Join Date: Jan 2009       12-04-2012, 3:58 PM Reply   
lame...
Old    Travis Q (motogod77)      Join Date: Aug 2008       12-05-2012, 8:30 AM Reply   
I dropped the pile off this morning, we will see they make of it . . . . . . .
Old    Travis Q (motogod77)      Join Date: Aug 2008       12-07-2012, 12:54 PM Reply   
Update . . . . scanned it and everything is spot on, compression check and spark plug check - all good, and did a drop test on the coils / one seemed bad so replaced the coil and spark plug on that cylinder - - - - - Nothing changed!

So for ****s and grins we pulled the fuel filter (that the Ford dealer supossedly replaced about three months ago - hard to tell since its still a Motorcraft filter). Anyway the fuel that poured out was almost black WTF . . . . so replaced the fuel filter and put some lucas treatment in the tank and full tank of Chevron 92 and it seems to run way better (only put about 20 miles on it so far) but it still idles ruff as hell. The plan is to run a tank or two of fuel through it and see what it does. Any thoughts out there?
Old    TJ (Houstonshark)      Join Date: Jan 2011       12-07-2012, 7:30 PM Reply   
Trade it in on a really rainy day so that they don't drive it or even start it.
Old    Travis Q (motogod77)      Join Date: Aug 2008       12-08-2012, 11:09 AM Reply   
I'm being told to drive a tank of fuel through it and at least 10 drive cycles for the computer to learn that it now has the proper fuel pressure, etc? Does this make sence, it does run much better and less miss at freeway speeds, but it still idles like its running on 6.5 cylinders . . . . .
Old    Nate (norcalmalibu)      Join Date: Jun 2004       12-10-2012, 8:57 AM Reply   
Ford definitley has a relearn process. I've had to do it on all my Ford's.

Details below..

Battery relearn
Because your vehicle’s engine is electronically controlled by a computer,
some control conditions are maintained by power from the battery. When
the battery is disconnected or a new battery is installed, the engine must
relearn its idle and fuel trim strategy for optimum driveability and
performance. Flexible fuel vehicles (FFV) must also relearn the ethanol
content of the fuel for optimum driveability and performance. To begin
this process:
1. With the vehicle at a complete stop, set the parking brake.
2. Put the gearshift in P (Park), turn off all accessories and start the
engine.
3. Run the engine until it reaches normal operating temperature.
4. Allow the engine to idle for at least one minute.
5. Turn the A/C on and allow the engine to idle for at least one minute.
6. Release the parking brake. With your foot on the brake pedal and with
the A/C on, put the vehicle in D (Drive) and allow the engine to idle for
at least one minute.
7. Drive the vehicle to complete the relearning process.
• The vehicle may need to be driven 10 miles (16 km) or more to
relearn the idle and fuel trim strategy along with the ethanol content
for flexible fuel vehicles.
• If you do not allow the engine to relearn its idle trim, the idle quality
of your vehicle may be adversely affected until the idle trim is
eventually relearned.
• For flexible fuel vehicles, if you are operating on E85, you may
experience poor starts or an inability to start the engine and
driveability problems until the fuel trim and ethanol content have been
relearned.

However If pulled the fuel filter and its black I would be worried that you have had bad gas at somepoint. After seeing that I would have personally dropped the tank and drained it. I'm almost positive your tank is plastic. Have you been using E85? or has anyone outside of your knowledge used E85? There have been reports of E85 eating the plastic away inside the tank.
Old    Travis Q (motogod77)      Join Date: Aug 2008       12-11-2012, 10:18 AM Reply   
Thank you Nate, I thought there would be some sort of "re-learn" sequence the computers needed, I replaced the battery in my Mercedes once - what a nightmare that one was! I will try that this afternoon and see what happens.

When I said black out of the fuel filter, I meant it more as a reference for how dirty the fuel was coming out of it when I blew it thru the old filter. I am pretty certain it hasn't had E85 ran in it. I put over 100 miles on it yesterday and my fuel economy came back - getting in the 18 range again and it runs great, but still idliing real weird so the relearn sequence here I go.
Old    Travis Q (motogod77)      Join Date: Aug 2008       12-13-2012, 10:30 AM Reply   
Well there we are, that relearn changed the way it idles and accelerates 10 fold - way better. I think we have it licked, amazing that's all it was . . . . .
Old    Travis Q (motogod77)      Join Date: Aug 2008       12-21-2012, 8:43 AM Reply   
Update . . . . WTF . . . .

So after about 600-700 miles of great fuel economy, great power, and zero mis or hesitation, I was sitting in park idling for about 10-15 minutes waiting for somebody, anyway I start to feel the mis come back and as time went on it seemed to get worse and right back to the way is was before . . . . Now at anything under about 1200 RPM's it misses again, fuel economy dropped 4-5 mpg, but it seems to run just fine . . . . .

So scanned it, everything still OK (but timing varies from one bank to the other), pulled the fuel filter its fine, my mechanic buddy seems to think its a VCT / Cam Phaser / Cam Chain Guide Bull****, but the valve covers and front of the engine have to come apart to see what's going on. There is a slight ticking going on from idle to about 1000 rpms?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????

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