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Old    Cliff (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       11-15-2012, 8:45 PM Reply   
it looks like the labor union would rather shut the company down then take pay cuts


there was once a place for unions in this country.......not so much now if you ask me


http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8MG19P20121116
Old    Brett W (brettw)      Join Date: Jul 2007       11-15-2012, 10:19 PM Reply   
It's crazy knowing the situation the company is in that these folks would strike and likely put their company completely out of business losing their jobs altogether. You gotta love some of these unions.
Old    Justin Michael (JustinMD)      Join Date: Jan 2012       11-15-2012, 10:26 PM Reply   
"I don't want to lose my job. It's Christmas time," said 23-year-old Daniel Smith, who makes $11.64 an hour at the plant. "But if I have to take the cuts they're talking about I can get more from unemployment."

Wonderful thought process.
Old    Brad Walker (humboldt9)      Join Date: Jun 2004       11-15-2012, 10:31 PM Reply   
It's only a matter of time before the government shuts them down for making kids fat anyway. Just ask the residents of NYC...
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       11-16-2012, 10:00 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinMD View Post
"I don't want to lose my job. It's Christmas time," said 23-year-old Daniel Smith, who makes $11.64 an hour at the plant. "But if I have to take the cuts they're talking about I can get more from unemployment."

Wonderful thought process.
and that right there is whats wrong with our country.
Old    Flight007 (poser007)      Join Date: Nov 2004       11-16-2012, 11:12 AM Reply   
And today is the last day the company will have it's doors open. If the people in this country aren't willing to make sacrifices we are all doomed. Think about it, we all know we have to start making cuts, as soon as Romney talked about some of the cuts he would make chains got rattled. The crazy thing is the Public broadcasting cut probably wouldn't have hurt the station yet many were up in arms. Many morons on the left were saying it's only 400 million a tiny piece of the pie, but when you make many more cuts the money starts to add up. We have to start some where and the people the cuts effect aren't going to like it. Eventually we are all going to feel it but it is in our countries best interest to deal with this right now. We all have to make sacrifices, nobody is comfortable making them but at this point if we don't make them the sacrifices will come looking for us. I may go out and buy a box of Twinkies for old time sake.
Old    Jason Callen (westsidarider)      Join Date: Feb 2003       11-16-2012, 11:24 AM Reply   
I don't know what's worse, unions or Obama. Both need to rot in hell IMO
Old    August (augie_09)      Join Date: Mar 2011       11-16-2012, 11:31 AM Reply   
think I'll go buy some twinkles
Old    Mik (norcalrider)      Join Date: Jun 2002       11-16-2012, 11:55 AM Reply   
Do any of you actually buy hostess products? I've never had a twinkie and traded a soda for a ho-ho once. Guess it's just not my thing but I don't know anyone who grabs those products even on road trips these days. Perhaps the market just isn't there for these products anymore? As believers in free-economics aren't these things going to happen as the markets change?
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            11-16-2012, 12:05 PM Reply   
I use to love yellow cupcakes...freeze them and they were legit. I hope Lityle Debbie doesnt follow...i grew up on Nutty Butty and starcrunch lol
Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       11-16-2012, 12:33 PM Reply   
Mik, stop clouding the issue with facts.
Old    Phatboypimp (phatboypimp)      Join Date: Apr 2005       11-16-2012, 12:33 PM Reply   
This is capitalism/darwinism at its finest. I hate unions and this is a perfect example of how they are irrelevant in today's world. I just hope that we can shutdown the USPS which lost $16B (that is $2.4M an hour) this year. Be profitable or be gone.
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       11-16-2012, 12:42 PM Reply   
Yeap. Facts. You're not allowed to downsize. Stay as you are or shut down completely.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       11-16-2012, 12:59 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by phatboypimp View Post
This is capitalism/darwinism at its finest. I hate unions and this is a perfect example of how they are irrelevant in today's world. I just hope that we can shutdown the USPS which lost $16B (that is $2.4M an hour) this year. Be profitable or be gone.
It's in the US Constitution that we have a postal service.
Old    Akadirtbikingdad (wakeboardingdad)      Join Date: Aug 2008       11-16-2012, 2:03 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by norcalrider View Post
..... Guess it's just not my thing but I don't know anyone who grabs those products even on road trips these days. Perhaps the market just isn't there for these products anymore? As believers in free-economics aren't these things going to happen as the markets change?
I know what you mean. Everyone in my crew is grabbing the good stuff to sip and munch on. You know, Monsters and Pringles.
Old    Jo Shmoe (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       11-16-2012, 2:07 PM Reply   
anyone try a deep fried twinky? I heard they were really good.
Old    Akadirtbikingdad (wakeboardingdad)      Join Date: Aug 2008       11-16-2012, 2:09 PM Reply   
On a more serious note, the 6600 who voted to strike were only from one of the unions of the 18000. Even the Teamsters said not to do it. A company who has been in some sort of bankruptcy twice probably knows when the profit/survival line is crossed. 4PM yesterday was it.

I'm not a big fan of unions. My parents life was negatively impacted by one and they seem to work harder defending malcontents and do nothings than actually helping the work environment. These union employees, will probably be looking for work in a year or less and wanting to work for the company that bought the factory to make twinkies. Some may be excited to go to work for less money and benefits and no union.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       11-16-2012, 2:39 PM Reply   
Nasty food anyway. It's a good thing.
Old    Baitkiller (baitkiller)      Join Date: Jan 2010       11-16-2012, 2:48 PM Reply   
In an exciting turn of events, the State of Colorado has offered to buy Hostess.
Old    Andy Graham (ottog1979)      Join Date: Apr 2007       11-16-2012, 2:51 PM Reply   
Nasty food yes, but DAMN those twinkies were good.
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       11-16-2012, 3:00 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by baitkiller View Post
in an exciting turn of events, the state of colorado has offered to buy hostess.
lmfao!
Old    Cliff (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       11-16-2012, 4:59 PM Reply   
I haven't eaten them in many many years

but

it's wrong for a group of workers to have the power that determines if a business lives or dies

there is 8%+ unemployment. If the workers didn't accept the terms of the restructure, Hostess should be able to hire workers that are willing to work. Unions need to go away

chances are, everything gets sold to the highest bidder and ding dongs are back in production....hopefully without the bakers union
Old     (Truekaotik)      Join Date: Jun 2012       11-16-2012, 8:02 PM Reply   
Well when you can collect a unemployment check without a piss test, I say, why not?? Lmao... This country :-/
Old    Ron T (Laker1234)      Join Date: Mar 2010       11-16-2012, 9:26 PM Reply   
Where's the bailout?
Old    Akadirtbikingdad (wakeboardingdad)      Join Date: Aug 2008       11-16-2012, 9:42 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod View Post
Nasty food anyway. It's a good thing.
Now that's stretching it don't you think?
Old    Big D (bigdtx)      Join Date: Feb 2005       11-17-2012, 3:15 PM Reply   
http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/ne....html?page=all

After a day of silence, finally word from the union whose strikes last week prompted Hostess to announce it would liquidate the company.

The union wasn't just giving the media the cold shoulder.

Hostess CEO Gregory Rayburn told CNBC this morning that the union had stopped returning his calls a month ago.

But this afternoon, the union had a lot to say.

This from Frank Hurt, president of the 80,000-worker Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union:

“Hostess’ announcement that it is liquidating the company is a deep disappointment for all of our Hostess members. While Hostess management wants to blame our members for the demise of the company, the truth is that had it not been for the valiant efforts of our members over the last eight years, including accepting significant wage and benefit concessions after the first bankruptcy, this company would have gone out of business long ago.

“Hostess failed because its six management teams over the last eight years were unable to make it a profitable, successful business enterprise. Despite a commitment from the company after the first bankruptcy that the resources derived from the workers’ concessions would be plowed back into the company, this never materialized. Management refused to invest in modernizing its bakeries or devote necessary resources to advertising and marketing, product development and new technology. Business plan after business plan failed, leaving the company ever deeper in debt.

“When a highly respected financial consultant, hired by Hostess, determined earlier this year that the company’s business plan to exit bankruptcy was guaranteed to fail because it left the company with unsustainable debt levels, our members knew that the massive wage and benefit concessions the company was demanding would go straight to Wall Street investors and not back into the company.

“Our members were aware that while the company was descending into bankruptcy and demanding deep concessions, the top 10 executives of the company were rewarding themselves with lavish compensation increases, with the then CEO receiving a 300 percent increase.

“Our members decided they were not going to take any more abuse from a company they have given so much to for so many years. They decided that they were not going to agree to another round of outrageous wage and benefit cuts and give up their pension only to see yet another management team fail and Wall Street vulture capitalists and 'restructuring specialists' walk away with untold millions of dollars.

“Throughout this long and difficult process, BCTGM members showed tremendous courage, solidarity and devotion to principle. They were well aware of the potential consequences of their actions but stood strong for dignity, justice and respect.”
Old    Matt (duramat)      Join Date: Feb 2008       11-17-2012, 4:03 PM Reply   
I'm not an anti union guy, but watching my dad for 25 plus years doing some manual labor and watching him struggle as his pay was reduced along with his benefits with Wonderbread I can tell ya that this isn't because the Union. Wonderbread has been in the red for quite a while (years) and a lot of it was to mismanagement. A lot of families are feeling this. They made more than just the junk food that many love. Ya it is sad when one can make more money off unemployment than what they wanted to pay.
Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       11-17-2012, 4:38 PM Reply   
Sounds like all those freedom-hating commie union members just wanted a bunch of gifts and handouts; how dare they be upset with a 300% increase in their CEO's pay while he runs the company into the ground?
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-17-2012, 7:45 PM Reply   
Hostess- not too big to fail?
*chuckle*
Old    GD (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       11-17-2012, 8:48 PM Reply   
Come on. We are talking about TWINKIES and WONDER BREAD. Both of these products should have died long ago!

Wes, while I don't agree with failing CEOs getting paid a ton of money, he is a single person. If you divided his 3X salary of $2.5M salary by 18.5K employees, you get $135 per employee -- not a lot of money per "upset" employee.
Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       11-17-2012, 8:58 PM Reply   
Dane - agreed - but I think you understand the concern. And I think $135 per employee could buy Christmas gifts for those employees' kids...
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       11-18-2012, 11:13 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddad View Post
Come on. We are talking about TWINKIES and WONDER BREAD. Both of these products should have died long ago!

Wes, while I don't agree with failing CEOs getting paid a ton of money, he is a single person. If you divided his 3X salary of $2.5M salary by 18.5K employees, you get $135 per employee -- not a lot of money per "upset" employee.
The success of any business is due partly to leading by example. They lead their company into the ground by example.

I do believe there should be no law forcing employers to negotiate with unions. If employees want to strike fine. But if employers want to fire and rehire, fine too. But the law does require it and it's the job of management to do everything they can to work within the law to the success of the corp. They didn't and now they are bankrupt.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       11-19-2012, 6:15 PM Reply   
I think all of the workers should have been fired and they should have been able to pay 5.00 an hr, with no overtime and no benefits, to anyone desperate enough to take the job.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       11-20-2012, 7:39 PM Reply   
One of my customers is Franz Baking. I was at their place yesterday and the crew I work with was hopeful they buy Hostess or the recipes/capital. If true stoners in the states that voted marijuana legal can rejoice.
Old    Train (ttrigo)      Join Date: Dec 2004       11-20-2012, 9:50 PM Reply   
"I think all of the workers should have been fired and they should have been able to pay 5.00 an hr, with no overtime and no benefits, to anyone desperate enough to take the job."

But no one is that desparate. Unemployment benefits will pay waaaay more than that. Unemployment basically never runs out either. No incentive to take a low paying job.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       11-21-2012, 4:58 AM Reply   
^Not waaaay more. What do you get, 275.00, before taxes?

Besides, I was just be facetious to all of the posters on here that were blaming the fall of Hostess on the unions. If the company was in such dire straits and "everyone" needed a reduction in pay and benefits, then why didn't the same apply to the management of Hostess? Here are some of the pay raises, even after word had gotten out that a second bankruptcy was on the way:

CEO, Brian Driscoll, approx $750,000 to $2,550,000.
Exc VP, Gary Wandschneider, $500,000 to $900,000.
Exc VP, John Stewart, $405,000 to $700,000.
Exc VP, Kent Magill, $370,000 to $650,256.
Old    L H (sports_gurl)      Join Date: Jun 2011       11-21-2012, 9:19 AM Reply   
Now Jeremy is completely right with those numbers.... and the biggest problem with your country is that the Rich are getting richer and not giving a f*** about the poor that are are getting poorer. There is a death of the middle class.

And actually, I think that is essentially what unions (and Obama) are trying to avoid. Obviously(sadly), large corporations Actually run your country and would love cheap labor. Not ONE of those CEOs is going to suffer from this.... but hundreds of employees will probably greatly suffer, and those CEOs won't do anything about it. So don't blame your government, or unions and say those are the problems with your country. The problems are the values and greed of the corporations.
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       11-21-2012, 9:57 AM Reply   
"The Wall Street Journal reports that in July 2011, top executives received a 75-to-80 percent pay increase. Earlier this year, when Greg Rayburn became Hostess' sixth CEO in a decade, he reduced those same executives' salaries to one dollar. Hostess also has $2 billion in unfunded pension liabilities to various unions' workers."
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       11-21-2012, 10:01 AM Reply   
Hostess Brands Inc. will ask a bankruptcy judge today for permission to shut down permanently, costing more than 18,000 jobs, after mediation with its bakers’ union failed to resolve a contract dispute.

“A mediation today with the Bakery, Confectionary, Tobacco and Grain Millers Union was unsuccessful,” Hostess said yesterday in a statement. The company said it wouldn’t comment further until today’s court hearing.

U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Robert Drain in White Plains, New York, on Nov. 19 adjourned a hearing where Hostess planned to seek approval to close and sent the parties off for a last-ditch effort to negotiate terms that might keep the floundering company afloat.

“I’m giving the union as well as the debtors and their lenders a last chance to try and work those issues out in private,” Drain said at the Nov. 19 hearing. He cited “serious questions as to the logic behind the decision” by the bakers’ union to strike.

Hostess and the union agreed to Drain’s request to enter confidential mediation under his supervision. They met yesterday at the law offices of Jones Day in New York. Drain postponed until today the hearing on Hostess’s request to shut down and move toward liquidation.

Corrina Christensen, a spokeswoman for the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union, didn’t immediately return a call seeking comment on the failed mediation after regular business hours.

``Unfortunately, the last-minute mediation efforts by Judge Drain were not successful,'' Ken Hall, general secretary-treasurer of the Teamsters union that represents Hostess drivers, said in a statement. ``This is a tragic outcome.''

Contract Imposed
Hostess said it was forced to opt for liquidation after the union went on strike Nov. 9. The union, representing about 5,000 Hostess workers, walked out after Drain imposed contract concessions opposed by 92 percent of the union’s members.

Hostess, based in Irving, Texas, is asking the judge for approval to shut down 36 bakeries, 242 depots, 216 retail stores, and 311 hybrid depot-store facilities, according to court filings. There are 58 other leased or owned sites used for storage, warehousing of products or parking. The plants are in 22 states, stretching from Alaska to New Jersey.

Hostess sought court protection in January, its second time in bankruptcy, listing assets of $982 million and debt of $1.43 billion. The 82-year-old maker of Hostess CupCakes, Ding Dongs and Ho Hos has endured years of declining sales as Americans turned to rivals’ snacks and breads, while ingredient costs and labor expenses climbed.

The case is In re Hostess Brands Inc., 12-22052, U.S. Bankruptcy Court, Southern District of New York (White Plains).

To contact the reporters on this story: Dawn McCarty in Wilmington at dmccarty@bloomberg.net; Phil Milford in Wilmington, Delaware at pmilford@bloomberg.net
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       11-21-2012, 10:23 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by psudy View Post
"Hostess also has $2 billion in unfunded pension liabilities to various unions' workers."
It amazes me as to how we allow this to be legal. How hard would it be to simply require that all pensions be funded the year they are earned and placed into an account in the name of the recipient? No guaranteed benefit plan, just money in an investment account under the control of the person who earned it. You know darn well that these unfunded pensions are for the benefit of other than the pension recipient. And when the money isn't there the recipient loses.
Old    Jo Shmoe (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       11-21-2012, 11:26 AM Reply   
"Hostess, based in Irving, Texas"
Ok, Texas is a "Right to work" State, which means you have a "Right to work for less" this is the way Republicans are getting rid of the Unions across the Nation.
So, What percent of the workers at Hostess are in the Union? How many are striking? Are their jobs that difficult they just can't hire part time workers?
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       11-21-2012, 12:38 PM Reply   
Enough they have to liquidate the company.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       11-21-2012, 2:58 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by psudy View Post
"The Wall Street Journal reports that in July 2011, top executives received a 75-to-80 percent pay increase. Earlier this year, when Greg Rayburn became Hostess' sixth CEO in a decade, he reduced those same executives' salaries to one dollar. Hostess also has $2 billion in unfunded pension liabilities to various unions' workers."
Paul gave us some of the facts. Funny that the story had to be made public in the WSJ about the lavish pay increases before Rayburn took action. Here is the rest of the story from Snopes:

Executive pay at Hostess
Old    Jo Shmoe (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       11-22-2012, 6:39 AM Reply   
The bakers union represents about 30 percent of the company's workforce. They could not continue without the striking workers. I would think that if the Union represented 100% of the workers they would have voted Not to strike. Thank you Right to Work.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       11-22-2012, 11:14 AM Reply   
^The CEO said Monday it didn't matter. The company was in such bad financial shape, even if the bakers had returned to work and agreed to the reduction in pay and benefits, the company would have still have to remain closed.
Old    Someone Else (deltahoosier)      Join Date: Jun 2002       11-23-2012, 11:42 AM Reply   
I would have remained closed because they lost so much revenue already in a company that was on the edge. Salary of the Executives is one thing and Union is the other. The executive salaries would not have changed the outcome for any of them period. The Executive salaries are in serious bad taste for sure but was not the issue.

Hostess my be stationed in Texas but not all of it's employees were in Texas. Another illogical conclusion.
Old    John Gunnels (cragrat)      Join Date: Mar 2012       11-24-2012, 2:05 PM Reply   
Needed to give up my sweet tooth anyway. BRING ON THE CARBS!
Attached Images
 
Old    Pound (snyder)      Join Date: Feb 2006       11-26-2012, 4:23 PM Reply   
I'm no fan of unions. I have first hand experience of the kind of culture it "can" create in a company.

But having said that, this particular case is nothing more than a horribly run company, who already went thru bankruptcy once and did nothing to make meaningful changes to their business model or product offerings to turn around.

From what I've read the employees (union and non-union) shouldered the only real concessions to keep the company afloat. Sorry excuses for executive management...

The whole thing just adds fuel to the fire of 99%'ers. Looks like the main mistake was a very myopic board of directors running the show after their 1st bankruptcy. Generally, a competent BOD is not going to allow/reward executives w/such pay increases for a failing business. They really should have re-invented themselves. The core issue was identified way early on in this thread... people are buying less and less junk food every year. They knew this and did nothing about it except HOPE that one day things would turn around.

But in the end, the exec's will run off to their next gigs, while the drivers, bakers, packagers, etc will scramble to find other things to do.

The flip side of this for the workers, is if you worked there for 10 years, and knew the company was sucking wind (if you didn't know, you should have found out) you should have been preparing for your next job a long time ago...
Old    Rich (digg311)      Join Date: Sep 2007       11-29-2012, 9:33 AM Reply   
Hostess Executive Bonuses: Twinkie-Maker To Seek Approval For $1.8 Million In Bonuses During Liquidation
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...?utm_hp_ref=tw

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