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Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       11-13-2012, 3:12 PM Reply   
Jason, that just tells the party that all they have to do is wait till the next election and they will get the position again. IOW the only thing you need on your resume is "not currently in office". Not too demanding. I voted for Obama because my ideology is more aligned with the Democrats. IOW I will never vote for a Republican until they are saying something I believe in.

Oh and wrt socialism in healthcare, I'm for it. Capitalist healthcare is failing miserably in containing costs and providing confidence that it will be there and affordable when I need it. It has also been the recipient of redirected tax revenue for years, so I guess it's really just the wrong combination of socialism and capitalism.

Also past performance is the best indicator of future performance. Complaining that someone is judging your party because of what is has done is not a convincing argument. Perhaps there are "more of them" than you because the wheels have already fallen off. Don't flatter yourself as to being the only one that sees flaws. You aren't that special
Old    RileyBangerter (steezyshots)      Join Date: Feb 2008       11-13-2012, 3:15 PM Reply   
So you are for socialism in Health Care, and Obama has already proved he has socialist tendencies by allowing the government to take over GM. Are you for a full on Socialist country?
Old    Cliff (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       11-13-2012, 3:42 PM Reply   
http://gma.yahoo.com/doc-shortage-co...ws-health.html



http://news.yahoo.com/don%E2%80%99t-...-13564462.html


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/wealth...210032429.html

Last edited by ord27; 11-13-2012 at 3:44 PM.
Old    Rich (digg311)      Join Date: Sep 2007       11-13-2012, 3:51 PM Reply   
http://www.ericgarland.co/2012/11/09...-white-people/
Old    Rich (digg311)      Join Date: Sep 2007       11-13-2012, 4:23 PM Reply   
Oh, and this...

In nutshell, county-by-county breakdowns, then adjusted for *population density*. Makes a *huge* difference in the overall shade of the country. Kinda takes the wind out of the sails of any sort of secession talk.
Attached Images
 
Old    Cliff (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       11-13-2012, 4:28 PM Reply   
I need a drink....
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       11-13-2012, 6:18 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by steezyshots View Post
So you are for socialism in Health Care, and Obama has already proved he has socialist tendencies by allowing the government to take over GM. Are you for a full on Socialist country?
No
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       11-13-2012, 7:07 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_ssr View Post
The same thing we should do with all failed politicians, vote out the incumbent regardless of party. I voted for Romney, not because he is any less a POS than Obama, but because I will vote out any incumbent who doesn't value liberty over easy outs and he was the best chance to do so. Same with all other elected positions, if the incumbents don't perform, they go out, regardless of party.

It didn't really matter who won because in this 50/50 climate there will be no successes. Romney would have relabeled Obamacare as his own and I would have voted him out in 4 years too.

The point is that I can see the flaws in the candidates and agree with each sides detractors. You cannot. You do not see government healthcare as socialist in nature because your guy endorsed it. Maybe you don't see anything wrong with socialism in general. All I know is you deflect all arguments to the other side of the isle like past GOP behavior somehow justifies poor behavior now. If some GOP talking head yelled "SAVE THE WHALES!" you would yell "KILL THE WHALES!!" without even thinking about what you just said, out of habit. As long as the GOP doesn't like it, you are all for it regardless of how foolish it is.

The sad part is that as a country, there are now more of you than there are of me. Congrats! The wheels will fall off this thing eventually, and one good thing about hard times is they are an extinction level event for liberal thinking.
See, this is what drives me crazy about guys like you. You act as though you have everything figured out, but the rest of us (i.e. guys that don't side with you politically) are intellectually inferior. And I think someone that was infinitely smarter than the rest of us would come up with something of substance. You have not. You have simply restated what guys like G and Someone Else have posted and reposted which are regurgitated GOP pundit talking points. I mean, do you have any original thoughts on the subject or are you going to continue to enlighten us with the same stale arguments and doom and gloom? There is not a more miserable and pessimistic person right now than a Republican. And I don't think I have done any "deflecting" at all, I simply identified that Romney was a crappy candidate. Most of your post seems to substantiate my identification. I don't value what GOP talking heads say anymore than I value what you say. I draw my own conclusions.
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       11-14-2012, 5:21 AM Reply   
Quote:
Oh and wrt socialism in healthcare, I'm for it.
Thats fine, you admit to being socilaist in this area. I dont agree with it, but I respect it. You dont pretend its not socialist.

Quote:
Also past performance is the best indicator of future performance.
I dont disagree. But past poor performance of one party does not justify present bad decicions from the other party. If one didnt believe in Obama's healthcare plan, "well at lease he didnt start two foreign wars!" is not relevant, nor justification for bad healthcare policy. Its not really part of any healthcare debate. Thats not agreeing with socialistic healthcare, its just saying its no worse that foreign wars. Jeremy would have us believe that we should accept poor presidential decisions simply because he had to accept them from a previous president from the other side of the isle. We should speak out against bad decision making on the merrit of the issue, not the party affiliation.

Quote:
Don't flatter yourself as to being the only one that sees flaws.
I never said I was. Only that Jeremy was not.

Quote:
I mean, do you have any original thoughts on the subject
HAHA! I dont really get to choose the issues that come up on our political horizon. Original thought? You think "Romney was a crappy candidate" was original? The last conservative pundit I heard speak was Fat Rush when he was doing football. I dont believe in doom and gloom. I still live in the same house, eat the same food and work at the same job for the last decade. Who sits in the office doesnt change my day to day one bit. Today is no different that a decade ago, and wont be any different a decade from now.

A man goes out and works all day to earn money to provide for his family. Some of that money must be given to the government to fund that man's protection from invaders, and fund the infrastructure, roads, etc. There is a fundamental problem with a government taking what one man poured sweat to attain and giving it to someone else who did nothing for it. When doing things the right way becomes corrupt (and it will) you fix the right way, you dont do what is fundamentally wrong because fixing the right way is too difficult.

I believe it is wrong.
John believes it is right, and I respect it.
You tout whatever happens to be opposite the GOP and rename it your "own conclusions". IMO, thats no belief at all and I have no respect for it.


And dont let me drive you crazy. I dont give a second thought to your opinion after I post. I dont have all the answers to political BS. I only know right from wrong and try to apply it where I can. I think you do to, but you are such a dem homer that you would rather go with what you know is fundamentally wrong than to agree with a conservative belief. After all, having a conservative opinion on anything would put you in agreement with your boy Limbaugh, and we simply cannot have that now can we?
Old    RileyBangerter (steezyshots)      Join Date: Feb 2008       11-14-2012, 8:49 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
No
It's a slippery slope we are on
Old    RileyBangerter (steezyshots)      Join Date: Feb 2008       11-14-2012, 8:53 AM Reply   
Another thought, where do you think the line will be drawn on socialism? If taking over GM was step 1 and Obamacare is step 2 where does it end?
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       11-14-2012, 10:08 AM Reply   
nationalization and government rationing of energy
abolition of inheritance
ultimately ending in a bizzaro-world only-in-America religious fundamentalist/communal kibbutz/pilgrim/mormon pioneer style shared means of production.

Last edited by shawndoggy; 11-14-2012 at 10:10 AM.
Old    Thomas Sangster (BuckleNation)      Join Date: Jun 2012       11-14-2012, 10:30 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pesos View Post
Bitter? Marriage equality won in all 4 states it was on the ballot... Scott Brown was defeated as were the entire crop of tea party senate challengers, and two incumbent crazies lost their seats, one to the first openly gay senator ever. Marijuana was decriminalized in two states and there are more than 3x the female senators now than there were 20 years ago. Unless bitter is your code word for elated...
That's actually incorrect. It was on the ballot in NC and lost by over a 20% margin. Just so you know.
Old    Rich (digg311)      Join Date: Sep 2007       11-14-2012, 11:45 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckleNation View Post
That's actually incorrect. It was on the ballot in NC and lost by over a 20% margin. Just so you know.
Nope. He was right. Marriage equality was on the ballot in 4 states... Maine, Maryland, Minnesota and Washington. It passed in all 4.

You're thinking of the ban that passed in NC back in May.
Old    Pound (snyder)      Join Date: Feb 2006       11-14-2012, 12:27 PM Reply   
shawndoggy, have you read "The Coming Insurrection"?
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       11-14-2012, 1:07 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by snyder View Post
shawndoggy, have you read "The Coming Insurrection"?
No, I'd never heard of it till you mentioned it (I don't listen to Glen Beck either). It does look pretty interesting though if wiki and the amazon reviews can be trusted.

As an aside I'm certainly a fan of the post-apocolyptic fiction genre. I can't think of any sort of those books or movies that doesn't end with communal (or ultimately dictatorial) government -- beginning with the "tribe" or "band."

Have you read it? The audio version looks pretty cheap on amazon. Might give it a go.
Old    Pound (snyder)      Join Date: Feb 2006       11-14-2012, 1:43 PM Reply   
Yes, I've read it... I'm interviewing families to join me on my acreage in Texas.... We have plenty of carpenters, cooks, and willing farmers. We're still looking for a blacksmith and a brewmaster. I prefer the term "Colony" over "Commune"...


...kidding.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       11-14-2012, 2:10 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by snyder View Post
Yes, I've read it... I'm interviewing families to join me on my acreage in Texas.... We have plenty of carpenters, cooks, and willing farmers. We're still looking for a blacksmith and a brewmaster. I prefer the term "Colony" over "Commune"...


...kidding.
its kinda funny how both ends of the political spectrum eventually wrap around on one another.
Old    Pound (snyder)      Join Date: Feb 2006       11-14-2012, 3:18 PM Reply   
Shawndoggy, my brother!

I figured that out some time back. In fact in this very thread, it's a fun exercise to take a post from someone you think you're on the opposite end of the spectrum from, and re-word it by just changing a few words to say the exact same thing you feel... for example: here's my mirror post of Jeremy's last post but from a conservative's perspective...

"See, this is what drives me crazy about guys like you. You act as though you have everything figured out, but the rest of us (i.e. guys that don't side with you politically) are intellectually inferior. And I think someone that was infinitely smarter than the rest of us would come up with something of substance. You have not. You have simply restated what guys like Wes and John have posted and reposted which are regurgitated Liberal pundit talking points. I mean, do you have any original thoughts on the subject or are you going to continue to enlighten us with the same stale arguments and "hope" and "change"? There is not a more idealistic and naive person right now than a Democrat. And I don't think I have done any "deflecting" at all, I simply identified that Obama was a crappy President. Most of your post seems to substantiate my identification. I don't value what Mainstream Media talking heads say anymore than I value what you say. I draw my own conclusions."

woah! that was scary!
Old    Terry Redfearn (TerryR)      Join Date: Aug 2010       11-14-2012, 3:39 PM Reply   
well done snyder
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       11-14-2012, 4:46 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by snyder View Post
Yes, I've read it... I'm interviewing families to join me on my acreage in Texas.... We have plenty of carpenters, cooks, and willing farmers. We're still looking for a blacksmith and a brewmaster. I prefer the term "Colony" over "Commune"...


...kidding.
if you are too lazy to get your ish going for the zombie/marxist apocolypse, a business local to me will sell you an off-the-grid doomstead in a box: http://envirohaven.com/
Old    Markj (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       11-14-2012, 5:52 PM Reply   
Personally, I think it's funny and entertaining how these threads start one way and then take on a life of their own. No one has even responded to the originl question. And yes, it was rhetorical but, we can still dream right?
Old    Joel McMath (King12)      Join Date: Jul 2012       11-22-2012, 7:13 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckleNation View Post
That's actually incorrect. It was on the ballot in NC and lost by over a 20% margin. Just so you know.
This is incorrect. "Marriage Equality" was not on the North Carolina Ballot in november.

Ammendment one was voted on in North Carolina spring of 2012. Amendment one is a constitutional amendment BANNING gay marriage.. which was already illegal in north carolina.. it also does a few other things eradicating civil unions and having various other effects. Marriage equality was not only not voted on in november it was not voted on at all, it would have still been illegal had the amendment not been passed.

You are only correct in the 20% statement
Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       11-22-2012, 7:40 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckleNation View Post
That's actually incorrect. It was on the ballot in NC and lost by over a 20% margin. Just so you know.
derf

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