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Old    Charles Dubé (sir_vtec)      Join Date: Nov 2012       11-08-2012, 5:33 PM Reply   
Recently we discovered the joys of water sports. We tried wakesurfing and Wakebord with a friend who bought a Correct Craft. Currently we are the owner of a watercraft and we mainly skiing in the back.

We are looking to buy us a boat for water sports and also we are new in the field, I would like your help to subject. The boat will be used mostly for the practice of wakesurfing, but also to do some Wakebord, tube, pleasure and a little skiing with the family, children and friends. We have some criteria for future boat. This is a boat that will be out of the water and towed after each use. We can not afford to have a $ 100,000 boat, then we look in the used market, but not too old.

Wakebord for boats, is there a big difference in driving a brand to another? What engine to choose, is that the 330 base is strong enough?

Versatility (surfing, wakeboarding, boating, tubing, skiing)
Reliability, durability and quality
No wood in the hull
Good fuel consumption
I wish we could be stored in a garage with a door 7 feet tall (which eliminates a lot of boat)
Security (infants)
Storage
Can sail on small and large lakes.

Here are the models I selected that could interest me.
Axis A20 and A22
Moomba Outback V, LSV and XLV, Mojo 2.5 is very rare in the used
Tigé R20 and RZR, but not sure of the PCM 303 is enough?
Tigé Z1 and 22Vé
Centurion Avalanche C4
Sport Nautique 200
Super Air Nautique 210
Mastercraft X2
Supra 21V
I do not know really malibu, epic and sanger boats

Currently, I have a favorite for the AXIS, but I've never tried and I've only seen very quickly in real life. I could not take the time to make the rounds as it should. I look at their catalog advertising.

Do you have other ideas of brands and models?

Nearest month, boat dealers are Correct Craft, Moomba, Supra and Mastercraft. A little farther away, Malibu, Axis, Sanger and Epic.

According to me, if I'm not mistaken, there's just the Axis and LSV Moomba Outback V and 2012 and less goes into a garage door at 7 feet tall?

The only models I've tried are the Outback V 2011 Super Air Nautique 210 Team in 2011.

So, I'd love to know your experiences, comments and advice on this subject. Thank you and excuse me for my english. I use google for English / French.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       11-08-2012, 6:08 PM Reply   
A lot of good choices. I just bought a Tige RZR with the 303. We demo'd it with 6 adults and 4 kids in the boat and the ballast full and it pulled me up plenty quick. It's fine with the 303 unless you are going to really weight it down.
Old    Charles Dubé (sir_vtec)      Join Date: Nov 2012       11-08-2012, 6:10 PM Reply   
Thanks Todd
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       11-08-2012, 6:52 PM Reply   
wow lots of boats there.

everyone here is going to be cheering for their own brand so be warned, so ill start off cheering for mine . ill give plus 1 to the RZR. super deep boat, good for the kids, great surf wake, good wakeboard wake(can be finicky but gets big quick), decent ski wake. 343 with full ballast feels like its going to pull your arms off if the driver kills the throttle, throw you out of the seat handling are all major pluses of the rzr, that said id give the nod to a few other boats on your list as well.

i havent ridden behind the other boats(but i know folks with them), but ive crawled through them and you have a pretty good list going, i would lean towards the rzr, nautique 210, or a20

the nautique 210 wake is classic and will surf well, probably the best fit and finish of the group, also will be more expensive

a20 as well super easy to dial in, but does feel a little cheaper(relative) inside, also interior feels more shallow than the 210 or rzr but considering your list i'd say those are the only 2 negatives there you could probably get one new for less than you think
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       11-08-2012, 7:13 PM Reply   
MB should be on your list, with the deep V they surf as good as any, they also fit in 7ft garage doors and for the $....your turn Chat, you should also take a look at the wakesurf forum
Old    Nick Horton (VLX_Fixation)      Join Date: Nov 2012       11-08-2012, 8:17 PM Reply   
I own a malibu but u seem well to have that ruled out...lol i ride (wakeboard) behind an axis a22 fairly regularly and the wakeboard wake gets dialed in perfectly every time with the plug n play ballast. As far as surfing, never gotten it dialed in very well. The swim platform seems too large because it cuts the wave very badly. Not sure about skiing. But I agree with the above post...it feels pretty cheap in the interior and the fit and finish...but you're getting a great boat at a discounted price so malibu had to cut somewhere when building the axis...but if i can do anything to sway you towards the wakesetter let me know. (great wakeboard/surfing wakes and great skiing) lol just FYI.
Old    Charles Dubé (sir_vtec)      Join Date: Nov 2012       11-09-2012, 10:50 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by surffresh View Post
MB should be on your list, with the deep V they surf as good as any, they also fit in 7ft garage doors and for the $....your turn Chat, you should also take a look at the wakesurf forum
Thank you for the info, but unfortunately there is no MB dealer in the area. I live in Quebec Canada and I have ever seen.
Old    Charles Dubé (sir_vtec)      Join Date: Nov 2012       11-09-2012, 11:01 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by VLX_Fixation View Post
I own a malibu but u seem well to have that ruled out...lol i ride (wakeboard) behind an axis a22 fairly regularly and the wakeboard wake gets dialed in perfectly every time with the plug n play ballast. As far as surfing, never gotten it dialed in very well. The swim platform seems too large because it cuts the wave very badly. Not sure about skiing. But I agree with the above post...it feels pretty cheap in the interior and the fit and finish...but you're getting a great boat at a discounted price so malibu had to cut somewhere when building the axis...but if i can do anything to sway you towards the wakesetter let me know. (great wakeboard/surfing wakes and great skiing) lol just FYI.

Nick thank you once again for your advice. I'm going to see the Malibu at Montreal boat show in February. A dealer near me has strongly discouraged the malibu. He told me that it is not very solid boat, the gel coat cracks quickly and the wedge system is not good. , He does not sell goods on malibu and I know anyone who has so it's a bit why I wrote this post.This is what year and how many hours on your malibu?
Old    Charles Dubé (sir_vtec)      Join Date: Nov 2012       11-09-2012, 11:05 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
wow lots of boats there.

everyone here is going to be cheering for their own brand so be warned, so ill start off cheering for mine . ill give plus 1 to the RZR. super deep boat, good for the kids, great surf wake, good wakeboard wake(can be finicky but gets big quick), decent ski wake. 343 with full ballast feels like its going to pull your arms off if the driver kills the throttle, throw you out of the seat handling are all major pluses of the rzr, that said id give the nod to a few other boats on your list as well.

i havent ridden behind the other boats(but i know folks with them), but ive crawled through them and you have a pretty good list going, i would lean towards the rzr, nautique 210, or a20

the nautique 210 wake is classic and will surf well, probably the best fit and finish of the group, also will be more expensive

a20 as well super easy to dial in, but does feel a little cheaper(relative) inside, also interior feels more shallow than the 210 or rzr but considering your list i'd say those are the only 2 negatives there you could probably get one new for less than you think
Thank you for your answer, actually the nautique is probably the best and most expensive, but are also Tigé still expensive. In your list the a20 is probably the cheapest. thank you
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       11-09-2012, 11:30 AM Reply   
I would think a Tige R20 will be cheaper than an Axis A20. They are by far in my area anyway. Atleast $5,000 cheaper around here.
Old    Charles Dubé (sir_vtec)      Join Date: Nov 2012       11-09-2012, 11:38 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardman74 View Post
I would think a Tige R20 will be cheaper than an Axis A20. They are by far in my area anyway. Atleast $5,000 cheaper around here.

Basically, the R20 is really stripped more than the Axis. He'll have to redo my make money for both, but I think the R20 was more expensive. In addition the engine is less powerful.This is perhaps the Tigé dealer that sells too expensive too ...
Old    Charles Dubé (sir_vtec)      Join Date: Nov 2012       11-09-2012, 11:48 AM Reply   
Is a RZR password in a garage door 7 feet tall? Memory, a RZR on a trailer is still pretty high.
Old    Charles Dubé (sir_vtec)      Join Date: Nov 2012       11-09-2012, 11:51 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by VLX_Fixation View Post
I own a malibu but u seem well to have that ruled out...lol i ride (wakeboard) behind an axis a22 fairly regularly and the wakeboard wake gets dialed in perfectly every time with the plug n play ballast. As far as surfing, never gotten it dialed in very well. The swim platform seems too large because it cuts the wave very badly. Not sure about skiing. But I agree with the above post...it feels pretty cheap in the interior and the fit and finish...but you're getting a great boat at a discounted price so malibu had to cut somewhere when building the axis...but if i can do anything to sway you towards the wakesetter let me know. (great wakeboard/surfing wakes and great skiing) lol just FYI.


Is your boat going in a garage door 7 feet tall?
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       11-09-2012, 12:23 PM Reply   
Chartrand Yamaha Gatineau QC is the new Mb dealer
Old    Ryan H (badluck)      Join Date: Jan 2009       11-09-2012, 12:55 PM Reply   
Malibu vlx diamond hull or vtx diamond.It really is a geat boat for skiing wakeboarding and surfing.You can find boats that do each sport better but you won't find a boat that does all 3 this good.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       11-09-2012, 1:45 PM Reply   
RZR will go thru a standard garage door with the tower folded. Just about any boat will as long as the tower folds.
Old    Nick Horton (VLX_Fixation)      Join Date: Nov 2012       11-09-2012, 5:41 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_vtec View Post
Is your boat going in a garage door 7 feet tall?
mine is a 2007 and i just crossed 300 hours. i bought it just about 2 months ago with 280 hours and have absolutely loved every hour of it! i can get it into my garage, it isn't fun or easy. to get a vlx in a 7 ft garage, i lay the tower down take the front tires off of the trailer and lower the jack all the way down and it fits.
Old    Nick Horton (VLX_Fixation)      Join Date: Nov 2012       11-09-2012, 5:44 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_vtec View Post
Nick thank you once again for your advice. I'm going to see the Malibu at Montreal boat show in February. A dealer near me has strongly discouraged the malibu. He told me that it is not very solid boat, the gel coat cracks quickly and the wedge system is not good. , He does not sell goods on malibu and I know anyone who has so it's a bit why I wrote this post.This is what year and how many hours on your malibu?
your dealer sounds like he had one bad experience and based his opinion off of that...check out themalibucrew.com, although i understand malibu owners are very biased but everyone on that site loves their boats. minor issues come up of course which you're going to get with any boat manufacturer but ive never heard anyone that adament about hating malibu's. my opinion...lol
Old    Charles Dubé (sir_vtec)      Join Date: Nov 2012       11-09-2012, 6:54 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by surffresh View Post
Chartrand Yamaha Gatineau QC is the new Mb dealer
Thank you for the info, effectively MB seem very interesting and well done. In addition it is PCM engines. I hope it will be at the Montreal Boat Show.
Old    Charles Dubé (sir_vtec)      Join Date: Nov 2012       11-09-2012, 6:55 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by VLX_Fixation View Post
mine is a 2007 and i just crossed 300 hours. i bought it just about 2 months ago with 280 hours and have absolutely loved every hour of it! i can get it into my garage, it isn't fun or easy. to get a vlx in a 7 ft garage, i lay the tower down take the front tires off of the trailer and lower the jack all the way down and it fits.

Again a big thank you Nick for all the details
Old    Charles Dubé (sir_vtec)      Join Date: Nov 2012       11-09-2012, 6:56 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by badluck View Post
Malibu vlx diamond hull or vtx diamond.It really is a geat boat for skiing wakeboarding and surfing.You can find boats that do each sport better but you won't find a boat that does all 3 this good.
Thanks Ryan
Old    Nick Horton (VLX_Fixation)      Join Date: Nov 2012       11-09-2012, 8:49 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_vtec View Post
Again a big thank you Nick for all the details
Good luck with the purchase!! Excited to see what you end up with.
Old    Charles Dubé (sir_vtec)      Join Date: Nov 2012       11-11-2012, 9:54 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by surffresh View Post
MB should be on your list, with the deep V they surf as good as any, they also fit in 7ft garage doors and for the $....your turn Chat, you should also take a look at the wakesurf forum

Is a Tomcat 21 feet with 1800 lbs of ballast is enough to wakesurf with 2 person in the boat or should add more weight? Is there any possibility of adding fat bags if 1800 lbs is not enough, even if there is no pump to their original ballast system?

On the site onlyinbord, I saw a new tower, which I find particularly nicer than the 2012 and less. Is this tower to go down in a garage with door 7 feet tall?
Old    Rance Taylor (DatTexasBoy)      Join Date: Aug 2012       11-11-2012, 12:07 PM Reply   
MB Tomcat 21-You can surf with just the 1800and 2 people , but it will not be perfect. If you add 400# in nose and another 400# in the back corner and your good to go. Also YES the new tower folds and will fit.
Old    Jason Callen (westsidarider)      Join Date: Feb 2003       11-11-2012, 12:12 PM Reply   
Ummmm.... Axis is made by malibu. It's their "cheap price point" version. And your local dealer is an idiot for bashing malibu. Word to the wise... Don't ever trust a salesman that bashes another brand
Old    Charles Dubé (sir_vtec)      Join Date: Nov 2012       11-12-2012, 10:59 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by westsidarider View Post
Ummmm.... Axis is made by malibu. It's their "cheap price point" version. And your local dealer is an idiot for bashing malibu. Word to the wise... Don't ever trust a salesman that bashes another brand
Thank you, actually I do not find it proper to destroy competitors
Old    Charles Dubé (sir_vtec)      Join Date: Nov 2012       11-12-2012, 11:00 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DatTexasBoy View Post
MB Tomcat 21-You can surf with just the 1800and 2 people , but it will not be perfect. If you add 400# in nose and another 400# in the back corner and your good to go. Also YES the new tower folds and will fit.

Thank you for the information
Old     (madcityskier)      Join Date: Jun 2012       11-15-2012, 9:05 PM Reply   
I've always been a MasterCraft guy, and the X2 is a great boat. After spending time on one, I would be all over a SAN210 if you can swing it. Neighbor has an 08, and it's the moat versatile towboat I've seen. Run the course on a slalom, fill the ballast and in 5 minutes we're surfing, buddy and his daughter can ride tandem behind it. Nice build quality as well.
Old     (madcityskier)      Join Date: Jun 2012       11-15-2012, 9:11 PM Reply   
I've always been a MasterCraft guy, and the X2 is a great boat. After spending time on one, I would be all over a SAN210 if you can swing it. Neighbor has an 08, and it's the moat versatile towboat I've seen. Run the course on a slalom, fill the ballast and in 5 minutes we're surfing, buddy and his daughter can ride tandem behind it. Nice build quality as well.
Old     (BrtnDan)      Join Date: Oct 2012       11-16-2012, 12:06 PM Reply   
I love my Axis a22. that's all I got.
Old    Lou Ferraro (ferral)      Join Date: Sep 2007       12-11-2012, 8:57 PM Reply   
The guy that told you Malibu is junk is way off base. Generally, Malibu is considered on of the "big 3" along with Correct Craft and Mastercraft. Malibu make very good high quality boats. They also have a small model called the VTX that may fit in a garage, but I'm not certain how low the tower folds.

Just so you are aware, Malibu and Axis are the same company. Malibu is the parent company and created Axis in 2009 as a lower priced brand. If you like Axis, Malibu is the fancier more expensive version. I have an Axis A22 and I love it. But I will say while the tower folds very low, it is not easy to do it without a second person helping. In my case, I have some heavy speakers on the tower and that makes it very hard to fold. The Malibu tower is designed to fold very easy for one person if that is something important to you.
Old    Don Christman (ktm525)      Join Date: Mar 2009       12-12-2012, 6:36 AM Reply   
The 2013 Mb is a good choice for the money. The 21 footers will fit in a gargage with the tower down and the lower trailer. I saw on at a local dealer. We just purchased a B52 23wb. We will have 2 week of January. I was told buy a couple of people on WW that if you are going to ski the wake is not meant for that. Otherwise the Mb is an awesome choice. We went with the 410hp motor. As you progress you might want more hp in the future. Also MB is now using Indamar engines.
Old    August (augie_09)      Join Date: Mar 2011       12-12-2012, 7:08 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_vtec View Post
Nick thank you once again for your advice. I'm going to see the Malibu at Montreal boat show in February. A dealer near me has strongly discouraged the malibu. He told me that it is not very solid boat, the gel coat cracks quickly and the wedge system is not good. , He does not sell goods on malibu and I know anyone who has so it's a bit why I wrote this post.This is what year and how many hours on your malibu?
I love the dealers that talk trash on other boat brands, specially when it's complete nonsense. Great sales tactic.

Even though I'm a malibu owner and had zero problems, I'd suggest looking strongly at the dealers/brands that are closer to you than the malibu dealer further away. Unless you are inclined to do all your own maintenance and repair, you'll be seeing towing the boat to them 2x a year.

Sounds like you have kids and plan on having friends out also occasionally, while you can make that work in a 21ft boat, which we happily do, we are a little jealous of the 23' boats and the extra 5 people they can hold in comfort. Theres been times we can not invite everyone we want to because of space issues in our 21 and it's only going to get worse as kids get older. 23's are going to make surfing easier also.

Last edited by augie_09; 12-12-2012 at 7:09 AM. Reason: typos
Old    Ian Brown (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       12-12-2012, 7:30 AM Reply   
Am I the only one who is pleasantly surprised by how well this thread is going? Great info WW. Can't wait to see what you get!
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       12-12-2012, 11:05 AM Reply   
Charles,

I've owned two Axis A22's. I've been very happy with my boats. The '12 and newer A20 and A22 models have a redesigned platform, which allow the boats to produce a great surf wave. As stated above, the wakeboard wake is phenominal behind the A22.

I also suggest that you go and demo a variety of boats. Meet with the local dealers, and see which you feel most confident buying from. I think all boats suggested are high quality. At the end of the day, it should boil down to which boat fits your needs for a price you can live with. If you have any specific questions after getting the know the boats a bit better, I'm sure people on here can help. I've owned a few Super Air Nautique 230's, a malibu vlx, an xstar and a couple of A22's. If you want to know more about any of those boats, just shoot me a question or two.

Here's a picture of the A22 surf wave with factory ballast, wedge down and the surf side plug n play bag full. I've also attached a trailer from a video that a dealer near me produced relative to the A22.

Attached Images
 
Old    Dennis Costa (dejoeco)      Join Date: Apr 2003       12-12-2012, 11:13 AM Reply   
Most of the manufacturers have stepped up their game and make good boats. I will not get into who is better or worse, but the fact that is usually true is a boat manufacturer who claims their boat is good for everything it is usually good for nothing. You should prioritize what sports are most important to you and approach it from that vantage point and find the compromise that works for you. I surf a lot and recently bought a Centurion and love it. I had a Tige before that and liked it too. I will comment on a person on my lake who surfs behind an Axis and he never has made the surf wake good. (I am sure some people have made it good.) If surfing is what you want to do most, then the big thing is PUSH, not size or length, although both are nice. When you have been behind a boat with great push, you will feel the difference.

Good luck. Buying a boat can be a lot of fun.
Old    Dennis Costa (dejoeco)      Join Date: Apr 2003       12-12-2012, 11:15 AM Reply   
See, as I was writing someone posted a good surf pick of an AXIS. Looks far better than the guy on my lake for sure.
Old    Jo Shmoe (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       12-12-2012, 3:01 PM Reply   
"The boat will be used mostly for the practice of wakesurfing, but also to do some Wakebord"
I would think you would want to try out Malibu's Surfgate, I don't think anyone has anything like it. I have owned 2 malibus 99 and 05 with absolutely no mechanical problems whatsoever and when I get another boat I am definately going to check out their Surfgate.
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       12-12-2012, 3:27 PM Reply   
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder
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