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Old    Absolutely (NOBODY)      Join Date: Apr 2011       10-29-2012, 5:48 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardman74 View Post
Apparently a lot if you are a MC or CC owner. Boat snobs are sensitive people!! Just like the HS star quarterback....in his mind if he was once the star he will always be the star and you had better recognize him as such!!!!
God Almighty, this is the truth. Our HS snob is still a snob 32 years later. There was NOTHING that impressed me about a MC. Way over priced!!!
Old    KEVIN (kko13)      Join Date: Jul 2006       10-29-2012, 6:57 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesHawk101 View Post
Small up date. After hearing from my sources and then seeing that the drive shaft problem is real, me and my dad have both decided to wait till spring to get a new boat of any kind. G23 still being at the top but I would like to give Nautique some time to fix the drive shaft problem. I am pretty sure we are getting a factory tour in the near future at Nautique and planning to demo one sometime this winter.
So where did you "see" this problem is real?
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            10-29-2012, 7:06 PM Reply   
Im wondering why the other thread was deleted. Did CC reach out to WW??
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       10-29-2012, 7:10 PM Reply   
The Craigslist ad was also deleted
Old    KEVIN (kko13)      Join Date: Jul 2006       10-29-2012, 7:12 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by LR3w8kbrdr View Post
Im wondering why the other thread was deleted. Did CC reach out to WW??
Good question. Glad you asked it.Maybe when those with the power want us to know we will.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       10-29-2012, 7:14 PM Reply   
Dave rarely pulls threads, even ones plagued by trolls and ones that get railroaded.
Old    KEVIN (kko13)      Join Date: Jul 2006       10-29-2012, 7:52 PM Reply   
I agree with you there Delta...but I am curious to know what gives. Am I to believe the black boat and its story was a hoax? I did not see the craigslist add you refer to. I take it involved the Black G?
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       10-29-2012, 8:04 PM Reply   
Craigslist link was dead from WW but I just found it... Cb Hill is the guys name on CL. Who knows...
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       10-29-2012, 8:08 PM Reply   
Well thats no fun. Told you guys.....X files!!
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       10-29-2012, 8:14 PM Reply   
Hey, I live in N VT now and got to ride 6 days from July 8 til the end of the season. I'm still in a manic depressive state over my lack of riding. Season started out doing 50 hrs on the fam boat by the end of June when the previous probably 5 yrs did 50/yr. I was on track for 100+ on one boat, not counting friends rides, I can do a lil xfiles ;-)
Old    Dom W. Forte (fic)      Join Date: May 2008       10-30-2012, 3:16 AM Reply   
When will you be demoing the Tige Z3?
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       10-30-2012, 4:13 AM Reply   
The Z3 is a nice boat.Also very versatile.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       10-30-2012, 8:21 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
The Z3 is a nice boat.Also very versatile.
Seems to be Tige's MO these days
Old     (Truekaotik)      Join Date: Jun 2012       10-30-2012, 10:35 AM Reply   
Too coincidental that this "kid" posted about it then, not even a day later that thread was created.... I bet money it was a hoax and CC contacted WW or something.... Ive heard of issues but none of my sources say a drive shaft has ever broke and just fell off.... Then proceeded to say it would destroy the strut and hull if it "did" occur.. they laughed actually when I asked the first time... Made me feel ike a tool...lol.... I was really wanting to know if this was real or what??!!?! my buddy was livid to say the least when I mentioned it about his over priced baller boat maybe having a defect.... Im voting Xfiles as well now.....

Last edited by Truekaotik; 10-30-2012 at 10:39 AM. Reason: typo
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       10-30-2012, 10:51 AM Reply   
I think its funny that a bunch of people think it couldn't have happened. Not saying it did, but why couldn't it? You do have a boat that is almost 10K at it's real world lake weight running gear that was designed for boats weighing far less. Plus running 550 hp to it is way more than that same running gear has had in the past. Plus swinging a bigger prop. When you do the math it certainly is plausible that it could be too much for the existing parts. Not saying it is.
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            10-30-2012, 10:54 AM Reply   
Shouldnt James be in school and not on WW right now? Lol
Old    Absolutely (NOBODY)      Join Date: Apr 2011       10-30-2012, 11:22 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by slipknot View Post
My buddy got the 24 MXZ this weekend.

The wake is unreal, too big for me, on the advanced setting unless you are pro level rider. I rode advanced but had to put the wedge down to mellow the wake. We surfed a bit, that wake is waist high. (we are not surfers).

The boat handles like a caddy, and turns on a dime.

We did pick up a local shredder and gave him a pull fully loaded (stock). He broke his board on a raley. He was getting seriously booted.

I don't need to do a full scale review of this boat. It does not need it. It is in the same class and costs 20-30K less then the G23? Really? Stupid once again. I have not been in a G23, or a Z3.
Somebody put the tower on backwards.

Old     (Truekaotik)      Join Date: Jun 2012       10-30-2012, 11:28 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardman74 View Post
I think its funny that a bunch of people think it couldn't have happened. Not saying it did, but why couldn't it? You do have a boat that is almost 10K at it's real world lake weight running gear that was designed for boats weighing far less. Plus running 550 hp to it is way more than that same running gear has had in the past. Plus swinging a bigger prop. When you do the math it certainly is plausible that it could be too much for the existing parts. Not saying it is.
OK this is why I think alot of people dont believe it... I think they believe it can happen, just not in the way the guy posted it... vwhich raised questions and then him not responding to them made more leary of the post?
1. He was running 4000 rpm and it just broke and fell off? only had a slight vibration, no Loud POP noise that most things make when braking?
Anything spinning that fast delivers a substantial amount of power, that is why there is a strut to stabilze closer to the prop. If it broke free you dont think there would be other damage? Or a spike in RPMs? You honestly believe it would just stop spinning instantly and slip out of the strut and fall to the bottom? OK now another issue i have with it just falling off... with that speed and power, it would HAVE to hit the hull, now if it by some miracle didnt hit the hull than it MOST DEFINITLY would hit the rudder.... Remember he said he was doing in excess of 4000 RPM ( I cant remember the exact speed but it was over 4000)... I think we are all just curious and in disbelief to be honest... AGAIN it most definitly can happen, anything can happen.. the story just dont make sense to alot of us and this site makes one skeptical anymore it seems... If it happened, I bet you everyone would apologize for blowing crap and take it like a man... We are just curious of the validity of the "post" I believe ???? I want to know if its true now so I will be taking steps to find out for my friends sake... No one wants to be stranded in the middle of the lake or where ever....
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       10-30-2012, 11:32 AM Reply   
It is most definitely possible. Massive amounts of torque +massive amounts of weight 6500lbs EVERYTIME you drive the boat, with gas and people... Not to mention a hull that displaced a massive amount of water EVERYTIME you drive... Then ultra ballast it... Any kind of imperfection in a prop shaft is gonna show. The most other boats of the inboard variety push atALL times are gonna be around 5500 lbs plus they surely don't displace as much water as a G considering it is probably the biggest wake in the biz...
I'm not saying yay or nay but it is definitely plausible...
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       10-30-2012, 11:36 AM Reply   
True, all valid points but who knows what in f t may happen if you broke a shaft... I'm sure no one on here has ever done that without hitting anything... Who knows that those would be the symptoms of a shaft breaking off behind the strut...
Old     (Truekaotik)      Join Date: Jun 2012       10-30-2012, 11:45 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
True, all valid points but who knows what in f t may happen if you broke a shaft... I'm sure no one on here has ever done that without hitting anything... Who knows that those would be the symptoms of a shaft breaking off behind the strut...
Thats why I wanted to know if it was real.. thats all.. if he posted pics, I woulda gave my condolences to Cb Hill and then told my buddy... Now we will never know if it is real or fake....
Old    Dom W. Forte (fic)      Join Date: May 2008       10-30-2012, 1:54 PM Reply   
Why doesnt somebody contact CC and tell them about this post and recomend they clear the air so their is no negative thoughts on here, unless they would prefer that we just keep thinking the worst, which wouldnt look good for them????????????
Old    Jimmy S (JamesHawk101)      Join Date: Sep 2012       10-30-2012, 5:03 PM Reply   
CC will more then likely deny it happening. And to all the people saying it was to coincidental that I posted the first post and then CBhill guy posted his problem, it wasn't a hoax or a fake at all. I don't work for Nautique. That was just the first time that someone publicly said that their shaft broke and you all asumed thst since i posted the first comment that it was a fake problem. It wasn't the first time a shaft broke and it sure isn't gonna be the last.
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            10-30-2012, 5:10 PM Reply   
James did you take a trip up yet to your nearest CC dealer yet to at least demo a boat? Its not too far from you right?
Old    Jimmy S (JamesHawk101)      Join Date: Sep 2012       10-30-2012, 6:16 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by LR3w8kbrdr View Post
James did you take a trip up yet to your nearest CC dealer yet to at least demo a boat? Its not too far from you right?
Sorry to say no. We have gone and looked at and plan on demoing one very soon. My dad and I have been very busy lately so we haven't gotten around to it.
Old    TJ (Houstonshark)      Join Date: Jan 2011       10-30-2012, 8:23 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truekaotik View Post
Thats why I wanted to know if it was real.. thats all.. if he posted pics, I woulda gave my condolences to Cb Hill and then told my buddy... Now we will never know if it is real or fake....
I'm guessing that if this is real, he's in Austin, based on CB Hill's Craigslist ad for the XSTAR he was selling. If that's the case, Sail and Ski would probably be the dealer he bought the G from. Give them a call.
Old    KEVIN (kko13)      Join Date: Jul 2006       11-01-2012, 4:54 PM Reply   
I think silence from CC eqautes to the problem being real. If its not true come out and say its not. If it is... own it and let people know you have a fix or are working on a fix.
David did you pull the post because you found it to be a hoax?
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       11-01-2012, 5:02 PM Reply   
Kevin, I think if you don't have picture proof of the (so-far mentioned phantom) problem you speak of, you should quit stirring the proverbial pot! Nautiques does not owe an answer to any of us on a message board...

I've been on a G23 that had 25hrs, then the few days later I went to another stop on the tour and it had more hours, the boat was far from home and it didn't break down either time I was on it, full ballast and 15 people...
Old    KEVIN (kko13)      Join Date: Jul 2006       11-01-2012, 5:59 PM Reply   
Its my spoon!!!!
There are known drivetrain issues/failures ( can happen to any boat). This is a fact. So when I started hearing about the broken propshafts being in the boat repair bizz It caught my intrest thats all. Then a person clamming to own one goes public for the first time (yes with some?? in his story..no pic) saying he had a shaft break. Then its pulled without explination. I just want to know if its a hoax or not thats all. You dont care and thats fine. So you can keep out of the thread and not worry about it.

Last edited by kko13; 11-01-2012 at 6:04 PM.
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       11-01-2012, 9:35 PM Reply   
It's not that hard to break a prop shaft without hitting something. My buddy snapped 2 or 3 of them on his Epic. 1 broke while pulling me up in the middle of Lake Powell where it was nearly 200' deep. It turns out that the shaft wasn't aligned properly and the angle was off just enough to cause it to get hot while turning and it would snap the shaft off in the coupler. Luckily, Epic's have dual rudders and when it snapped, the prop wedged against the rudders and he was able to swim underneath the boat and push it back into the packing seal to keep the boat from sinking while we called out to our other boat for help. Pretty scary when you snap one of those!
Attached Images
 

Last edited by timmyb; 11-01-2012 at 9:37 PM.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       11-02-2012, 8:49 AM Reply   
Wow!!!
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       11-02-2012, 9:22 AM Reply   
Wow, an epic broke a prop shaft?
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       11-02-2012, 10:05 AM Reply   
impressive! epics push aton of weight as well and have that monsterous 8.1....

it makes alot more sense that it would snap at the top though!!
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       11-02-2012, 12:54 PM Reply   
^ Nothing to do with weight or a monstrous 8.1...
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            11-02-2012, 1:03 PM Reply   
^^^obviously...its because of all the weight of those rear facing speakers. DUH
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       11-02-2012, 3:08 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakebordr11 View Post
^ Nothing to do with weight or a monstrous 8.1...
in my head more weight + more torque = more risk for cavitation
Old    KEVIN (kko13)      Join Date: Jul 2006       11-02-2012, 6:14 PM Reply   
Not so sure about that Delta. Timmy said alignment off and caused it to get hot. but he also said it snapped taking of. So the shaft would have had time to cool between a fall or a first start before breaking. So maybe with ballast+big block...and maybe and upgrade on the prop it was to much. Yes it could have been compromised by heat wich caused it to fail. I had an issue with my prop strut being bent sending my shaft WAY out of alignment. So much it wipped out the PPS seal and caused a pretty good leak in my boat. And I ran like this for months without knowiing untill the leak got bad.I have a 5.7L 335hp w/ stock prop stock ballast (1000#) with no prop shaft issue. I cant imagine how far out of alignment it would have to be to cause a shaft to break. So yes I think weight and torque play a major factor. And the G is pushing the limits on both of these (fact).... So yes it is very interesting that the Epic broke the shaft and it took them a few to figure out the root cause. Could this not be the same thing these Gs are dealing with? I said it could happen to any boat. I never bashed CC "if " they had an issue ( wich they do have IMPO) with the propshaft. But just trying to figure out why thats all. Is it an install issue? Is it the fact they have reached the limit of the 1 1/8" shaft (heavy boat,lots of ballast and 15" prop)? Whats the lenght of a G shaft compared to current production boats using same 1 1/8 shaft? How far past the strut does the shaft go on the G compared to current production boats using the same 1 1/8 shaft?
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       11-02-2012, 7:00 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by kko13 View Post
Not so sure about that Delta. Timmy said alignment off and caused it to get hot. but he also said it snapped taking of. So the shaft would have had time to cool between a fall or a first start before breaking. So maybe with ballast+big block...and maybe and upgrade on the prop it was to much. Yes it could have been compromised by heat wich caused it to fail. I had an issue with my prop strut being bent sending my shaft WAY out of alignment. So much it wipped out the PPS seal and caused a pretty good leak in my boat. And I ran like this for months without knowiing untill the leak got bad.I have a 5.7L 335hp w/ stock prop stock ballast (1000#) with no prop shaft issue. I cant imagine how far out of alignment it would have to be to cause a shaft to break. So yes I think weight and torque play a major factor. And the G is pushing the limits on both of these (fact).... So yes it is very interesting that the Epic broke the shaft and it took them a few to figure out the root cause. Could this not be the same thing these Gs are dealing with? I said it could happen to any boat. I never bashed CC "if " they had an issue ( wich they do have IMPO) with the propshaft. But just trying to figure out why thats all. Is it an install issue? Is it the fact they have reached the limit of the 1 1/8" shaft (heavy boat,lots of ballast and 15" prop)? Whats the lenght of a G shaft compared to current production boats using same 1 1/8 shaft? How far past the strut does the shaft go on the G compared to current production boats using the same 1 1/8 shaft?
You are out of control man.

1. A G is pushing the limits on weight and torque from an engine?! Fact? Says who? That is your OPINION. That means every 35' flybridge fishing boat with V-drive yanmars is pushing the limits...

2. The epic broke because the engine and transmission were misaligned to the packing box/hull exit. This caused stress on the shaft coupling where the shaft broke. The shaft broke INSIDE the boat, stopping won't let it cool, it is heating up inside the boat, never being cooled by water on the outside.

3. A strut being out of alignment would have to be very severe to cause stress to go all the way to the coupler. The bushings inside the strut are plastic, if the strut bends, the bushings fail and 'oval' themselves out. They are designed this way to avoid the stress that the epic encountered. The stress the epic incurred is why it is so critical that your propshaft and transmission/coupler is aligned and torqued properly...

You are asking a lot of questions and saying maybe A LOT. I never said "No way in H3LL can a G23 shaft break", what I said is No way in H3LL did the shaft break due to conditions of the hull being big, engine being strong and ballast being full, or a design issue! Not only that but he wasn't running ballast he was BREAKING his boat in!!!

You keep saying they have a problem when you have no PROOF. Its a vendor supplier issue if QA/QC didn't catch bad shafts exiting the factory.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       11-02-2012, 7:02 PM Reply   
Shaft Diameter = 100K x (3rd root of)[(P/R)*(560/(rho + 160))]

Where:
K = 1.22 for a keyless propellor, or 1.26 for a keyed propellor.
P = Engine Power (this power is in kW, use conversion 1hp = 0.746kW).
R = RPM of engine, or shaft after reduction gear if there is one.
rho = Material strength, Assuming the shaft is made of mild steel, use a value of 550 N/mm2, if stainless use around 750.

The answer overall comes out to be in mm, and since your wondering about if you need a bigger shaft, I would see how much difference there is in the size of shaft needed and the size already there. These shafts are picked with a safety factor of about 500% (5x), so if there isnt much difference in size required don't worry too much about it... unless your using the boat in icy conditions.

I found this formula to determine prop shaft diameter. Stainless steel keyed propshaft I came up with 25.2mm, 25.4mm is 1 inch. So, 1 and 1/8" is plenty big.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       11-02-2012, 7:44 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakebordr11 View Post
Shaft Diameter = 100K x (3rd root of)[(P/R)*(560/(rho + 160))]

Where:
K = 1.22 for a keyless propellor, or 1.26 for a keyed propellor.
P = Engine Power (this power is in kW, use conversion 1hp = 0.746kW).
R = RPM of engine, or shaft after reduction gear if there is one.
rho = Material strength, Assuming the shaft is made of mild steel, use a value of 550 N/mm2, if stainless use around 750.

The answer overall comes out to be in mm, and since your wondering about if you need a bigger shaft, I would see how much difference there is in the size of shaft needed and the size already there. These shafts are picked with a safety factor of about 500% (5x), so if there isnt much difference in size required don't worry too much about it... unless your using the boat in icy conditions.

I found this formula to determine prop shaft diameter. Stainless steel keyed propshaft I came up with 25.2mm, 25.4mm is 1 inch. So, 1 and 1/8" is plenty big.
Had a decimal error in my calculation... Maybe this formula doesn't work. Who knows. Everyone keeps saying shaft is too small and from an engineering stand point I refuse to believe it. Done splitting hairs, if you want to speculate, carry on... Agree to disagree.
Old    KEVIN (kko13)      Join Date: Jul 2006       11-02-2012, 9:16 PM Reply   
No worries man dont get you calculator or panties in a bunch.
If my facts about the G are wrong could you please point out a heavier 23ft wakeboat with a motor over 550hp with a bigger than 15" prop. that has a 1 1/8 shaft or smaller. There are a lot of variables I dont have answers to that I would like to know. propshaft lenght. how far propshaft extends past the strut. the Gs are reported to be breaking them out past the prop strut not at the coupler like the Epic pictured above. So this does not seem like an alignment issue to me.
You think and alignment issue would break after the prop strut?
Old    Jimmy S (JamesHawk101)      Join Date: Sep 2012       11-04-2012, 3:17 PM Reply   
I am thinking Nautique is gonna have to make the drive shaft thicker for the G. That means that the transmission will have to be slightly redone and the hull slightly redesigned. The bigger shaft will require a bigger transmission which will also take up more room therefor moving the cooler in the floor forward a bit. It isn't a permanent problem but there will be some changes with newer G's.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       11-04-2012, 4:22 PM Reply   
James, just out of curiousity where did you here that?

I'm not saying your not a smart kid, but that post is not out of the mouth of a 14 year old without a mechanical or engineering degree or years of experience turning wrenches. So give it up where did you here about that?
Old    Jimmy S (JamesHawk101)      Join Date: Sep 2012       11-04-2012, 7:20 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardman74 View Post
James, just out of curiousity where did you here that?

I'm not saying your not a smart kid, but that post is not out of the mouth of a 14 year old without a mechanical or engineering degree or years of experience turning wrenches. So give it up where did you here about that?
The whole shaft breaking issue? I know some people pretty high up in the wake industry. Don't think I can give names sadly, but you all would be surprised.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       11-04-2012, 7:38 PM Reply   
Sounds like "BREAKING NEWS".
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       11-04-2012, 7:39 PM Reply   
What about the G25 James?
If a thicker shaft is required, who says you can't just size up the coupler to the Vdrive?

From my research I've found that prop shaft diameter is determinant of prop diameter. What criteria are you using to size the prop shaft for the G. What will be the new size? What will the new size be?

Are prop mfrs going to start offering props for the new shaft size?

Have you been in a G23? The cooler is feet away from the transmission, FYI

Last edited by wakebordr11; 11-04-2012 at 7:48 PM.
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       11-04-2012, 7:48 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesHawk101 View Post
The whole shaft breaking issue? I know some people pretty high up in the wake industry. Don't think I can give names sadly, but you all would be surprised.
Anyone that works with Nautique?

I dated a few movie stars in college, but sadly I don't think I can give names...

Seriously, is this what the boat section of WW has come to?
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       11-04-2012, 7:56 PM Reply   
so what the kid doesnt want to name drop thats fine...

but why would they need a bigger tranny if the shaft is bigger? cut a bigger hole in the bottom, bigger coupler and be done?
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       11-04-2012, 7:56 PM Reply   
I'm going to go on record and say the kid has good information and we will see it pop here pretty quick, If anyone wants to bet lunch on it I'm game!!! Thats strictly my personal opinion.

I just don't think he's making it up and surely at 14 wouldn't be able to explain it pretty much to the T how it will be corrected. He may not be willing to give it up(which is smart if he wants to keep the source) but I am betting it's solid information.

I did alot of the field follow and design mods to the Caterpillar skid steers from 03-08. This is the way I would explain things to people for correcting existing production problems. 14 year old James is not on his own going to be talking about slight modifications to the hull to accomidate the larger shaft and moving the cooler slightly forward etc. He is repeating someone!! The question is who???

I'm not dogging you James, but your talking like a technician or a production engineer which neither are you at 14. It's cool though man cause you said you've got a source. I hope it's a solid one because it sure sounds legit to me!! From a production modification stand point sounds like how it would go to me.
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       11-04-2012, 8:01 PM Reply   
All I was trying to point out is that the shaft is more susceptible to breaking than most believe. I talked to him last night and he actually snapped 3 of them and lost 1 prop! Stock OJ prop, 14x14.25 or whatever it is. When you see it in person, your first thought is no way is that possible. It doesn't happen over night, this is something that took months to happen due to the alignment issue. To break that shaft without being weakened first, I just don't see that happening but wear and tear over time, yeah, I can see that if something isn't right. The good news is that it's all fixed now and (knock on wood), he doesn't have any issues.
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       11-04-2012, 8:04 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
so what the kid doesnt want to name drop thats fine...

but why would they need a bigger tranny if the shaft is bigger? cut a bigger hole in the bottom, bigger coupler and be done?
That's my point, a design mod of this magnitude would NOT require a redesign of the hull and relocation of components. I think it's bs. But hey, lets just go with it because a 14 year old said so and who he knows in the industry would surprise us...
Old    Jimmy S (JamesHawk101)      Join Date: Sep 2012       11-04-2012, 8:09 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattieK27 View Post
That's my point, a design mod of this magnitude would NOT require a redesign of the hull and relocation of components. I think it's bs. But hey, lets just go with it because a 14 year old said so and who he knows in the industry would surprise us...
The reason I can't want to say is I don't want him to get in trouble with sponsors and such. You need a more heavy duty transmission to accommodate a bigger and heavier shaft I would think.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       11-04-2012, 8:12 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesHawk101 View Post
The reason I can't want to say is I don't want him to get in trouble with sponsors and such. You need a more heavy duty transmission to accommodate a bigger and heavier shaft I would think.
thats fair and respectable, i too have connections in places i dont like to reveal so i understand.

but in terms of physics a thicker drive shaft should not change much of the rotational force. everyone would need new transmissions when stepped up to the new massive acme 15+ inch props...
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       11-04-2012, 8:42 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesHawk101 View Post
The reason I can't want to say is I don't want him to get in trouble with sponsors and such. You need a more heavy duty transmission to accommodate a bigger and heavier shaft I would think.
You would think?

Thank you for proving my point. Can we move on from the great G Series Shaft-gate until we get official word? By official, I do not mean a sponsored rider...
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       11-04-2012, 8:48 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesHawk101 View Post
The reason I can't want to say is I don't want him to get in trouble with sponsors and such. You need a more heavy duty transmission to accommodate a bigger and heavier shaft I would think.
Can you answer any of my questions above?
Old    9Drozd            11-04-2012, 10:07 PM Reply   
If there is a need for a larger diameter shaft, there will not be any redoing the molds or moving components in the boat around. Simply a bigger shaft, a coupler to fit the bigger shaft, a new shaft seal, and a new strut. The end
Old    Mark (biggator)      Join Date: Jul 2010       11-05-2012, 5:05 AM Reply   
Not trying to start a flame war here, but..

Has there been a single verified case of this happening? A picture? A known owner? Some dealer that can say 'yeah, we got a boat back'?

So far, the only thing on the whole internet about this (including PN) is this thread, and the other one where the guy claimed it happened then deleted his account when people asked for proof that he wasn't trolling. That thread was pulled.

I asked my local dealer - nobody there had heard about it as of about 10 days ago when I asked. Can someone get a dealer or someone from Nautique to either call BS or say 'we are making changes'?
Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       11-05-2012, 6:03 AM Reply   
I have not spoken with Correct Craft direct but once again here at Nautique's of Orlando we have not seen or heard of this happening. I have asked my boss and he is fully aware of this thread and has not heard any news to verify it. Doesn't mean it couldn't have happened somewhere else in the Country but every part of this is fishy and if it is false and the OP really was going to buy a G, it's really sad that people can get on these threads and create so much mayhem. It's not a matter of being tight lipped either. If these boats were having drive shaft issues, we would know. There are way to many G's here in Central FL for this to be "supposely" going on, yet no new to confirm it. I hope that helps guys. I would safely assume this was false information.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       11-05-2012, 10:55 AM Reply   
D I'm confused. What do you mean the OP was really going to buy a boat?? He(James) was the first one to bring this up, not the guy who posted about an actually break. James posted about the problem almost a week before that post, whether it was true or not. So the OP is the one to first mention this problem, not the guy who claimed he had a break. So if you are implying that someone is making things up to deter your customer, that would be young James, the OP, or as you might call him your CUSTOMER.

So since you are his dealer my money is on you guys leaking it to his family, him blabbing and now you guys trying to cover your butts about confidential CC info. Either that or it's a sponsored rider in the area which there can't be many that are "sponsored" to the level that they have a sponsor G23 and inside CC info. In that case, I believe James mentioned something about Murray somewhere earlier.

I'm just putting pieces together from multiple threads. Just my opinion, but the kids is getting info some where. Either it's his local CC dealer or a pretty high up sponsored pro to have a G23 and be in the know about whats going on with production issues!!
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       11-05-2012, 11:03 AM Reply   
Either way like someone mentioned this is getting old. CC needs to just officially confirm or deny it. It's not that big of a deal. Do you know how many new products have corrected problems the first year? Most of them. Thats why they always say don't buy the first year. If there is an issue CC is obviously going to correct it and make it right. They aren't one of the oldest ski boat companies for nothing. They make a great product and from what I have always heard, stand behind it.

Like I said above from all I see It is my opinion there is something to this. I will also bet CC will fix it and it will be a non issue. I am never going to own a G23, because I really don't want to tie that much money up in a boat. But if I was, there is no reason this would deter me. I might wait for it to be corrected, but with most production problems by the time it gets out the fix is already being applied to new production.

Last edited by boardman74; 11-05-2012 at 11:06 AM.
Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       11-05-2012, 11:10 AM Reply   
Todd- He is not my customer, he is in a different area than me and working with another dealer obviously. My intent is to clear the air and yes you are correct that the OP was the one who originally brought it up, but it was C B's situation and posts that drove him away from a G and made his family decide to wait a year. Without CB's posts he may still be on the market for a G23 because there would be no one to spread or confirm these rumors. I love the assumption that you made about us "leaking it to his family" and "covering our butts". I'm not covering anyone's butt. Myself and the dealership that I work for have absolutely nothing to do with this situation other than the fact that we have not had a single G come back to "OUR" dealership with any drive shaft issues. SInce we are the central FL Nautique dealer there are obviously quite a few around here so I was simply stating that if this was a reaccuring problem, or even happened at all, we would have heard something. Please get your information straight before you make accusation about our dealership and I mean that as respectfully and light heartedly as possible.

My comments on this thread are based on soley what I have seen and heard hear in the central FL area.
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            11-05-2012, 11:14 AM Reply   
Actually Dave in ORL wouldnt be his closest dealer. MarineMax Clearwater would. Marinemax would have also sold him his SeaRay too.
Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       11-05-2012, 11:34 AM Reply   
^^ Thanks LR3 appreciate that. It definitely is not us that is dealing with any of these guys. Was just trying to clear the air as best I could from what I have heard.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       11-05-2012, 11:36 AM Reply   
D I sincerely apologize. Someone earlier in one of the posts said something about demo'ing in Orlando so I figured you were his dealer. Now that you say that I remember him mentioning Marine Max. I am sorry to you and Nautique's of Orlando. I should have engaged by brain before my mouth or my hands in this case.

But knowing Marine Max's rep as the Walmart of boats they are a distinct possibility. I have a little insider info to and I am going to hold to the opinion that we will hear more about this. Young james probably overheard something that wasn't intended for public posting!! We will see.

But like I said if anyone wants to wager lunch on it.......
Old    MICAH HARPER (MICAH_HARPER)      Join Date: Apr 2010       11-05-2012, 11:52 AM Reply   
Just get a MB and not worry about all this stuff.....LOL
Old    Mark (biggator)      Join Date: Jul 2010       11-05-2012, 11:57 AM Reply   
Just for a sanity check.. the only places on the entire internet that mention G23 shaft issues are this thread, the now-deleted thread.. and my thread at PN asking if anyone there had heard of it (referencing the 2 threads here). So basically.. this thread.

If I were fact-checking, that wouldn't look good to me. Definitive? No... but it certainly wouldn't inspire confidence in the veracity of the statement.
Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       11-05-2012, 11:59 AM Reply   
Todd no worries at all! Haha it's no biggie just didn't want anyone in our area thinking it was us if they read this thread.
Old    Jimmy S (JamesHawk101)      Join Date: Sep 2012       11-05-2012, 12:54 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakebordr11 View Post
What about the G25 James?
If a thicker shaft is required, who says you can't just size up the coupler to the Vdrive?

From my research I've found that prop shaft diameter is determinant of prop diameter. What criteria are you using to size the prop shaft for the G. What will be the new size? What will the new size be?

Are prop mfrs going to start offering props for the new shaft size?

Have you been in a G23? The cooler is feet away from the transmission, FYI
I not a engineer but it sounds like from what you guys are saying is that it needs just a bigger coupler. and yes I have been in the G23 and I know the cooler is inches from he transmissions. Really all Nautique needs to do is make the shaft thicker.
Old    Jimmy S (JamesHawk101)      Join Date: Sep 2012       11-05-2012, 12:58 PM Reply   
My final statement for now is that I believe and know that some (very few but some) shafts are breaking. I am entitled to what I want to say. You guys can think what you want.
Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       11-05-2012, 1:14 PM Reply   
James you are 100% right I think the issue we are having is that yourself and CB keep saying you "know" that it has happened. Our questions are simply how do you know and can you please provide some light to this situation? I can't speak for the rest and it's good that you are on here sorting this out and looking for advice. I hope at some point some of your questions were answered. Through all of this I think the people of wakeworld just want an answer on who's G23 had a drive shaft break or where is this information coming from. Don't take this as I am calling you out because I am not, I totally respect you as a member of this community and a fellow boater. In your last comment^^^ you said you "KNOW" that some have broke? Can you please elaborate?

Another good point to touch base on as well is what Todd brought up. We've seen so many crazy things happen to new boats, it's not crazy for a drive shaft to have broken and obviously doesn't sound AT ALL like an issue every G is having. We clearly know that or there would be a lot more people on here bashing G's and CC. The issue is that this rumor was started yet there has been no solid information other than hear say. Once again, I have to elaborate, I am not saying your info is wrong or that you are lieing AT ALL. I am respectfully asking how you "KNOW" a drive shaft has snapped?
Old    Mark (biggator)      Join Date: Jul 2010       11-05-2012, 1:18 PM Reply   
Thank you Dave for summing it up nicely and politely.

Maybe just the name of a dealer who has serviced one and can verify?
Old    Jimmy S (JamesHawk101)      Join Date: Sep 2012       11-05-2012, 1:23 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakedaveup View Post
James you are 100% right I think the issue we are having is that yourself and CB keep saying you "know" that it has happened. Our questions are simply how do you know and can you please provide some light to this situation? I can't speak for the rest and it's good that you are on here sorting this out and looking for advice. I hope at some point some of your questions were answered. Through all of this I think the people of wakeworld just want an answer on who's G23 had a drive shaft break or where is this information coming from. Don't take this as I am calling you out because I am not, I totally respect you as a member of this community and a fellow boater. In your last comment^^^ you said you "KNOW" that some have broke? Can you please elaborate?

Another good point to touch base on as well is what Todd brought up. We've seen so many crazy things happen to new boats, it's not crazy for a drive shaft to have broken and obviously doesn't sound AT ALL like an issue every G is having. We clearly know that or there would be a lot more people on here bashing G's and CC. The issue is that this rumor was started yet there has been no solid information other than hear say. Once again, I have to elaborate, I am not saying your info is wrong or that you are lieing AT ALL. I am respectfully asking how you "KNOW" a drive shaft has snapped?
I know from my contact. The reason I have been hearing that they have been breaking is because of the amount of weight some people have been putting in there boats. At worlds for example they had like 8000lbs of ballast in that G23. Why in the world would you need 8000lbs of ballast? The wake is already massive with just stock ballast. But the torque is to great for the weight in the boat and shafts are breaking. The cause is probably that the shaft is microscopically out of alignment and when you add the extra weight people are putting in there boats that small amount of alignment becomes a big problem. It probably wont effect all the G's out there. Probably only a handful. It has happened though.
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            11-05-2012, 1:29 PM Reply   
Nevermind
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       11-05-2012, 1:31 PM Reply   
8000lbs of ballast?

What about the G25?

What about the guy whose "shaft broke" when he was breaking his boat in unweighted?

What criteria is used to size a drive shaft?
Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       11-05-2012, 1:34 PM Reply   
Well I sincerely appreciate your response. Unfortunately that doesn't help put the rumor to rest but I do respect your desire to keep your "contact" a secret. I doubt they ran 8000lbs at worlds either as I have personally been in a G23 with 3500lbs of additional weight and the 550 motor and while that motor is a beast and solid as can be from PCM, I dont think it would have got on plane with an extra 2000 of ballast on top of already 6000lbs of ballast. Don't see how they could have even pulled that off at worlds. Look, I will leave this thread on this note. Don't always believe what you hear until you see it and if you think loading a boat with 8000lbs of ballast is too much and that's why shafts are breaking than you have nothing to worry about because you obviously won't be loading that much weight anyways. Thank you for your responses I sincerely appreciate it. If you look back at my G23 thread (I can get the link if you want) I have pics posted of the red G23 with almost 4k of additional ballast in it. That is the boat I have been talking about and it has already been back twice for services..... No drive shaft issues.
Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       11-05-2012, 1:35 PM Reply   
LR3- haha I'm about done with this as well.
Old    Mark (biggator)      Join Date: Jul 2010       11-05-2012, 1:35 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesHawk101 View Post
I know from my contact. The reason I have been hearing that they have been breaking is because of the amount of weight some people have been putting in there boats. At worlds for example they had like 8000lbs of ballast in that G23. Why in the world would you need 8000lbs of ballast? The wake is already massive with just stock ballast. But the torque is to great for the weight in the boat and shafts are breaking. The cause is probably that the shaft is microscopically out of alignment and when you add the extra weight people are putting in there boats that small amount of alignment becomes a big problem. It probably wont effect all the G's out there. Probably only a handful. It has happened though.
Ok, so lets say for a second that I believe you 100%. You state that it has happened and more than once (hence the plurals used above). Can you give me the names of the dealers who have dealt with it so I can have my dealer call and verify? If it's a real issue - I want my dealer to know what is happening so he can adjust orders accordingly (he is going to call the factory as well).

If you're really trying to just be a helpful good guy here, that is what would be most helpful.
Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       11-05-2012, 1:42 PM Reply   
Mark- We have serviced G's. We did a service job on one where we plummed almost 4k of ballast. That's why Im finding this so hard to believe. This is my last post on this thread and while I can not confirm that this is false info, take a look at this thread

http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showt...=793044&page=3

In that thread you will find pics of a red G23 in the process of having additional ballast plummed in. Each rear locker has 1500lbs in it. That's 3k on the back end not including factory ballast. The front has about 400 roughly plummed in as well. Factory ballast roughly 2800lbs plus 3400lbs plummed in= 6200lbs of ballast in a G23. That exact boat has been back twice for services and not a single problem with drive shaft, V drive, or transmission. That is the only thing I can personally vouche for and if it didn't happen to this boat, probably won't happen to any of them. That's just my opinion though. Hope that helps ease anyones concerns.
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       11-05-2012, 1:43 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesHawk101 View Post
I know from my contact. The reason I have been hearing that they have been breaking is because of the amount of weight some people have been putting in there boats. At worlds for example they had like 8000lbs of ballast in that G23. Why in the world would you need 8000lbs of ballast? The wake is already massive with just stock ballast. But the torque is to great for the weight in the boat and shafts are breaking. The cause is probably that the shaft is microscopically out of alignment and when you add the extra weight people are putting in there boats that small amount of alignment becomes a big problem. It probably wont effect all the G's out there. Probably only a handful. It has happened though.
Please enlighten us on how weight in the boat has any effect on the torque seen on the drive shaft. The higher horsepower engines, now that would place a great strain on the shaft. Prop changes, yes.

Seriously, with every post you seem less and less knowledgeable. That's not a terrible thing, you're only 14; no big deal. But when you make claims and waffle on sources, expect those that have a mechanical background to call bs.
Old    Jimmy S (JamesHawk101)      Join Date: Sep 2012       11-05-2012, 2:06 PM Reply   
You guys can think what you want to I am gonna think what I want to. This thread turned into something that I didn't expect or want it to turn into so I am done as well.

BACK TO THE MAIN QUESTION AT THE START OF THIS THREAD!

Me and my dad are looking at some older 230's and X-Stars with saltwater capability's. We will wait for a later year to get a G more then likely. Are older Stars and 230s any good?

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