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Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       10-10-2012, 3:57 AM Reply   
Today is a long time coming. We are finally in the final chapter of a process/story that has taken well over a year for us, and longer for Tige. If you don't remember or didn't see it we did a video this past November regarding the new Z3 and Tige's efforts to engineer the hull for wakesurfing. You can see it here:

http://youtu.be/bGQjpivMcy8

The gist of it is that they bought us out to texas to test several hull designs and help them build a great wakesurf boat. In the video, you will notice that we loved the wake, but we had 3 complaints. The curl was a bit big and even though the wake was long it would effectively shorten the pocket since it would grab your leg, their was too much spray at certain taps positions and it hindered the ability to use the full range of TAPS adjustability. We stated in the video that Tige was working on solving those things and even though we didn't see the device, they told us of it in general terms and we looked forward to trying it. They were very general due to patent issues and lawyers and all of those things that I have nothing to do with.

We went home and soon received our new Z3 and have loved it thoroughly. The plan was to have the device by the West Coast Wakesurf Open, to show off to everyone. That didn't happen and to bridge the gap we were using a mudflap on the boat to eliminate wash at every taps position. It worked pretty darn well, but was ugly as sin. I never showed pictures of it because it was always supposed to be temporary. Well we have been working with Tige and asking, no begging, to be able to get this device so that we could test and show it off at our Polar Bear event this coming weekend. Pretty cool that Tige is willing to take their only working prototype and allow a bunch of weekend warrior surfers give it a good rogering.

We got the boat back from Abilene, TX this past Thursday and tested Friday and Saturday with our family and buddy Dennis. When we first saw it, I though of something my little 7 year old says when she sees a lady with a large posterior. She says, "Check out the caboose on that thing!". Thinking of that I said out loud, this Boat Got Back, and we nicknamed the device the BGB until it has a real name. So what does it look like? I put together a video that will hopefully answer a bunch of your questions and is mastered in 1080P so you get a real good look. It is full of testing video of many riders, and I think you will be impressed by the shape and smoothness of the wake, along with its length, and amazing adjustibility. So here is the video, make sure you hit full screen and watch this one in its full 1080P glory. I hope you like it, and its informative.



As far as riding it, 25 lucky people will be riding it this weekend at Lake Oroville along with 4 or 5 other world class wakesurf boats, what a weekend!

So here are 2 flickr photo sets you can peruse. This first one is our normal weight setup we use all the time. Pro Stock Ballast plus about 600lbs extra in the surf corner.

Z3 with BGB - Normal Weight

Then there is the experiment we said we would do in the fall, add more weight. So we added 1100lbs in the center and it didn't break a sweat. The rub rail is still 4 inches from the water.

Z3 with BGB - Heavier Weight

Lastly, here are a few of my favorite pictures.

The BGB.


IMG_0580 by wake9, on Flickr


IMG_0589 by wake9, on Flickr


IMG_0605 by wake9, on Flickr

The bare wake, normal weight.


IMG_0611 by wake9, on Flickr

RJ loved the wake and loved the lip, the device didn't destroy the lip.


IMG_1971 by wake9, on Flickr

When the kids have a great wake with a great transition, they just get better. Check out Thomas bottom turn to slash.


IMG_3066 by wake9, on Flickr


IMG_3069 by wake9, on Flickr

This is with the extra weight, and the wake was big and beefy. RJ's board is 4'8".


IMG_3338 by wake9, on Flickr

This is a great shot because I am almost standing up and the wake still looks big. This is Allison, first season surfing.


IMG_3338 by wake9, on Flickr

I had RJ hold the camera REAL low so you can see the transition, super smooth. Allison is 5'8".


IMG_4485 by wake9, on Flickr

That's it for now, can't wait to spend more time with it. Hopefully you will see these at the boat shows.
Old    E (22vdrive)      Join Date: Apr 2010       10-10-2012, 5:29 AM Reply   
Interesting! Ragboy how dies this caboose devise work? The wave looks great. I'm excited to see more. It's great to see that other companies are progressing wakesurfing by coming out with surf specific boats. Pretty soon every boat maker will have a boat made specifically for wakesurfing. You have to love progression.

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       10-10-2012, 7:04 AM Reply   
So you are saying your Z3 was washy before this contraption, do you have a non production hull? Why would I want to buy a Tige hull that needs a huge bat wing to clean the wake up? How does it affect the wakeboard wake? I'm not trying to be negative, but I don't get it...
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       10-10-2012, 7:14 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakebordr11 View Post
So you are saying your Z3 was washy before this contraption, do you have a non production hull? Why would I want to buy a Tige hull that needs a huge bat wing to clean the wake up? How does it affect the wakeboard wake? I'm not trying to be negative, but I don't get it...
This was your take away from the post? Really?
Old    E (22vdrive)      Join Date: Apr 2010       10-10-2012, 7:17 AM Reply   
Ragboy just saw your video on wake9 what is the weight set-up for the boat? Do you still put more weight on the surf-side than non surfside? In others words does the boat still have to be listed to some degree?

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
Old    Brendan (CarFanatic5)      Join Date: Apr 2010       10-10-2012, 8:32 AM Reply   
wave is super smooth looking!!
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       10-10-2012, 8:46 AM Reply   
Nice writeup ragboy! This weekend, could you get a side profile picture to compare with the mud flap so we can see how much longer the pocket is?
Old    Chase Tillett (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       10-10-2012, 8:46 AM Reply   
BGB- Big Giant Blemish?
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       10-10-2012, 8:48 AM Reply   
Oh, I was told that the name is going to be Convex VXT.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       10-10-2012, 9:04 AM Reply   
so basically this is a high tech "duffy flap"? I.e. a spray catcher? Or is it shaping the wake too? What's it made of? Just attached with reversed platform brackets?
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       10-10-2012, 9:07 AM Reply   
Yes another surf gimmick,
Yes it is ugly but at least it's underneath the swimdeck and didn't take 3 weekly installments of a soap opera to show off...

But let's be honest, this device isn't "changing" much at all. What it is doing, at least from looking at the video, is producing probably the cleanest surf wave I've ever seen.... That wash is all the way on the other side of the wake with not a bit of disturbance on that lip... I certainly won't be getting one but I know you surfers are always on the hunt for the perfect, cleanest wave you can find. If this device helps you then hats off to tige for keeping the hardcore surfers happy. My .02
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       10-10-2012, 9:48 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_mn View Post
This was your take away from the post? Really?
What did you get from the post? Sure it looks smooth but why do you need a 2.5' contraption, that is FIXED to make a boat 'surfable', he said wash, not me. It's not adjustable or removable by the looks of it, which is why I asked how it affect the wakeboard wake.

Are we a wakeboard forum? Am I allowed to ask how it affects the wakeboard wake of a wakeboard boat?

I asked if his hull was a new design non-production because everything I had heard about the Z3 on this forum was "wakesurf machine" and he talked about hull design in his post.

Further, my family and I are Tige owners and I like and believe in the brand and the steps they've taken to step their game up - I still love my 99, its what I've got, it works.

Last edited by wakebordr11; 10-10-2012 at 9:52 AM.
Old    L W (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       10-10-2012, 9:50 AM Reply   
Too bad more companies aren't focusing on wakeboarding wakes (other then G23) and are instead putting all the efforts into surfing. Ya, I know it's the new "big thing" but man, surfing gets boring after a while. And as much fun as it is, I can only get "so" excited about a 1 foot air, as opposed to blasting airs into the flats.
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       10-10-2012, 9:58 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 501s View Post
Too bad more companies aren't focusing on wakeboarding wakes (other then G23) and are instead putting all the efforts into surfing. Ya, I know it's the new "big thing" but man, surfing gets boring after a while. And as much fun as it is, I can only get "so" excited about a 1 foot air, as opposed to blasting airs into the flats.
That's kind of a general statement, they have all been working on them for 10+ years now.
Old    L W (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       10-10-2012, 10:09 AM Reply   
Maybe it is. It just seems EVERYTHING in the industry is shifting focus on surfing. Most of the ads in wakeboard mags, all the new "Devices" (Surf gate, surf tabs, this thing), and most of the new boats promote surfing first and formost. When shopping for a boat at the boat show not ONE salesman mentioned wakeboarding to me, but they ALL hyped surfing and how their boats surf.

I like surfing, I mean it's pretty fun and all but after 5 years it's lost some of its interest to me, I sure don't like it as much as wakeboarding that's for sure. As I get on in years I am sure it will appeal more. I kind of laugh when people "brag" about their extreme waves with 4000 lbs of ballast.

Sorry, don't mean to hate on surfing, I know its what most people are into these days, I guess all the days this summer where we had glass water in a secluded bay only to have a single surf boat come do circles in the middle of the bay ruining it for everyone doesn't help.



Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyb View Post
That's kind of a general statement, they have all been working on them for 10+ years now.
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       10-10-2012, 10:27 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 501s View Post
Maybe it is. It just seems EVERYTHING in the industry is shifting focus on surfing.
I am sure this directly correlates to what customers are buying new boats for. New boats are expensive. Therefore most people that can afford to buy them are not in there 20s. The are much closer to 40+. Surfing is a great sport for dad/mom who want to still get behind the boat, but dont want to kill themselves on a wakeboard.

BTW: all of these boats still have great wakeboard wakes. Bigger wakes than what 99% of the riders out there can handle.
Old    Spencer (spencerwm)      Join Date: Feb 2009       10-10-2012, 10:37 AM Reply   
I think it looks great and the wave looks very nice. Stoked to see that Tige is innovating. Nice write up.
Old    Dave Diaz (wakebrdr94)      Join Date: Jul 2010       10-10-2012, 10:51 AM Reply   
what does that thing do to the wakeboard wake?
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       10-10-2012, 11:02 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakebrdr94 View Post
what does that thing do to the wakeboard wake?
Great question.

Also - what happens when you drive in reverse?

Wave looks great and clean. The Z3 has one of the best out of the box surf wakes I've seen - this thing makes it better.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       10-10-2012, 11:27 AM Reply   
So there is a lot of questions there, if I miss something, just re ask...

It doesn't affect the wake board wake. If you look at the design, it is about 1/4" above the hull so it doesn't engage at WB speeds. I got the boat up to speed several times, I don't notice any difference in handling, and it reverses the same as before.

The Z3 before was a great surf wake, and made a clean wake at a few TAPS positions. But that isn't good enough anymore, IMHO. We really challenged Tige a while ago, that adjustability is the next hurdle. Clean at any TAPS setting and to be able to go to wake that chase hazen or ashley kidd will love (taps 5 or 6 or so) and then to a wake that Bri Chmel or Vanessa Gonzalez will enjoy (taps 1 or 2). And we have had all of these folks behind the boat and know what they like. You can make that switch with a touch of a button and not reweighting. You can see in the split screen of the video, the adjustment range is quite huge.

It is made out of fiberglass, just like the hull and currently it is stationary, but there are lots of possibilities.

So here is my list of what I observed as its benefits.

1. Clean, clean, clean.

2. Smooth transition, and difficult to overweight. You can put too much weight in the Z3, and it makes for a bad transition. This seems to negate that, or at least make it MUCH more difficult.

3. The wake is long, real long, and much less curl which makes it effectively longer. It seemed to retain all of its power/push, which you can see in Dennis riding.

4. Adjustable as all hell. ;-) With the mudflap, I could adjust through the taps, and we filmed it, but didn't release. We decided to wait for this because the mudflap is so ugly and a pain in the a$$. You guys know, with like an RZ2, RZ4, and even the Z3 but not so bad the wake distorts with the taps all the way up. It gets like a funky shape. You can see in the video, it doesn't do that, and pay attention to taps 8 vs 1, the length is about the same. Try that at home. Your wake will shorten much more without this when you taps up a lot. This kept a more even length at all times. Keep in mind, we made a mod, our taps at 8 is like stock 6, and our 1 is like stock -2.

The only negative I saw so far is that on the goofy side it has that big mohawk of wash. It is off the face, but annoying. I am confident it will be fixed, because you don't have to reshape the hull, just adjust the channel of the device, maybe it needs to be assymetrical to deal with pro rotation. Or imagine a selector that makes the channel push the wash AWAY from the wake, not just up the center.

We weighted the same as before, 8 degree list which is about 1450 or so on surf side, maybe half that on other, depending on people and seating, full up front. Then heavy was an additional 1100 in the center of the boat.

That goofy mohawk went away if you listed over on goofy to about 10 degrees, but the wake is a bit more mushy and has a less defined lip like that. TAPS 1-3 and 8 were clean on goofy with list at 8 degrees. Tige is working on the device for the final version so that it will be clean on both sides, all TAPS at 8 degrees of list which is optimum on the Z3.

Hope that answers most of your questions.
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       10-10-2012, 11:40 AM Reply   
Ragboy: do you worry people will use it as a "ladder" and break it? How sturdy is it? Also, I think Tige should make it part of the swim deck and fiberglass the BGB to the swim deck. I think this would help on aesthetics and keep people from using at a later to get in the boat.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       10-10-2012, 11:53 AM Reply   
LOL, no. I chuckle because if you touched it and saw it you would too. Its very sturdy. It doesn't feel like fiberglass. If you look at this:


IMG_0570 by wake9, on Flickr

I think its too close to the deck for anyone but a kid to use as a ladder, and even so, it was designed to take the load of surfing a 5k boat with say 4k of weight in it. Dennis and I both stood on the swim deck and it felt rock solid, that is about 700 lbs.
Old     (newwhit)      Join Date: Mar 2007       10-10-2012, 12:18 PM Reply   
looks cool. as long as it helps surfing, and does not hurt wakeboarding, slap it on!

do you think they will have it as an option for any hull?

i wonder what it looks like just plain stock pro or surf ballast for us weekend warriors?

^^^yeah, maybe glass the whole thing together and add a pull out ladder in the middle or side?
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       10-10-2012, 12:27 PM Reply   
@newwhit Yes, I think it will be option for many hulls, I am guessing all new ones, and not sure which going back.

The beginning of the video, which I call NORMAL weight is what I would say is a weekend warrior setup. We don't even use FULL enzo style sacs. We still have all of our storage on the sides. Our custom sacs fill up the lockers and go up and stop just where the seat opens up. I would say there are about 1100 filled at most. That is only 600 more than stock and less than what most weekend warriors would do. We have not tried it stock.

I was thinking, its like you get the benefit of the longer hull without the negative. A longer hull also adds more buoyancy and requires more weight. This seemed to make the same wake as before, just cleaner and longer with less curl. Yet it handles extra weight much better than without. Pretty cool.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       10-10-2012, 3:19 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_mn View Post
Great question.

Also - what happens when you drive in reverse?
That's all you took away from this post? Really?
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       10-10-2012, 4:14 PM Reply   
Looks cool. Anyone have any idea when it will be available or the cost?
Old    Hey, You scratched my anchor! (bftskir)      Join Date: Jan 2004       10-10-2012, 5:32 PM Reply   
Lake Oroville
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       10-10-2012, 5:41 PM Reply   
Got a little info. Those are the prototypes. Was told spring for production!! Trying to find out cost and what hulls it will fit, since we are probably going to be buying an RZR/R-20.
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       10-10-2012, 5:53 PM Reply   
Looks cool. Curious what other shapes they played around with. Man I want a job working with the design of boat hulls .
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       10-10-2012, 6:44 PM Reply   
Interesting device, I'd have to see it work and ride the wake to judge the difference from stock wave.It looks longer and cleaner.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       10-10-2012, 7:11 PM Reply   
Dang. Bet you could clear the wake at 100ft with no ballast with this thingamajig!
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       10-10-2012, 7:52 PM Reply   
103.7 chatt, 22.634mph
Old    Dirk Walden (wakewoody)      Join Date: Sep 2010       10-10-2012, 8:04 PM Reply   
Okay I will chime in. This was made to clean up the the prop wash, and smooth out the transition. My buddy has a 2012 z3 and the wave is not as good as my 23 lsv. We even bought the 1400 wake makers plug and play fat sac. With that said , I demoed a 2013 lsv with surfgate. we put 1100 in both lockers and a 750 in the bow, the wave was long, but less than stellar. These new inovations have ways to go. I will bet the tige has a picture perfect wave now, but you can"t switch side to side quickly. The malibu has an okay wave, but not a comp wave, but you can switch quickly. These systems are in their infancy , things will get better a few years out.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       10-10-2012, 10:35 PM Reply   
@woody One thing about the Z3 is that it weights way different than any other tige and different than many boats. You also can't put too much weight in the rear corner unless you balance it out up front. This boat needs weight ALL over. Our rear plug and play sacs do not even go all the way up the side, they go to the beginning of the side storage so that we still have our entire side storage available. So our daily weight is about 1200 sac in the corner, 1100 lbs up front and then about 600 lbs on the opposite surf corner. Thats about 3k, but it doesnt' feel like that at all because there is very little list, about 8 degrees (our 24Ve was almost 20, and our RZ2 was about 15 or so) and the rub rail is 6 - 8 inches off the water. With this weighting the boat has tons of power, a nice lip, good length and a smooth transition. I am a BIG dude, about 400 lbs and in the 24Ve and RZ2 I would sit in the corner to give the boat extra push. With the Z3, I actually drive for RJ (goofy) and sit in the observer area when regular.

This device makes the boat more forgiving to weight, it was much easier to overweight before and destroy the transition, and now the hull extension makes that much tougher.

I do not have any experience with the surfgate but have heard lots of feedback and your statements are the same I have heard. It switches fast but not the best wake, compared to what more hard core surfers are used to.

I don't want to take away that the Surfgate is a genuine innovation, it is very cool and I can imagine it will only get better. Last november when I was at the tige factory testing the Z3 they talked to me about this device (in general terms) and discussed something else, more similar to Surfgate that they seemed to be more excited about. My feedback was that IMHO they should concentrate on making the best possible wake surf wake on one side. IMHO the challenge was a great transition and adjustability. I even stayed up all night while in Abilene downloading videos from home so that I could show them in the morning, why adjustability is so important. A boat weighted that makes a great wake that can satisfy a skimmer like Vanessa Gonzalez or Bri Chmel and then also a rider like Chase Hazen that wants a wall to launch off of. We tested all summer and invited many of these riders.

That said, the question is whether or not having the ability to do tricks and enjoy the novelty of going from side to side instantly is going to drive the market more, or making the best wake possible on both sides but that can switch in minutes, not seconds. We switch from side to side in 4 minutes using a special pump we did, and I believe that kind of system will be offered in the future as an option. Don't quote me, though. To date, I have never felt like I wanted that switch to go faster. We are chilling on the boat, sometimes jump in, most of the time the boat is ready on the other side before we are.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       10-11-2012, 4:37 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragboy View Post
@woody One thing about the Z3 is that it weights way different than any other tige and different than many boats. You also can't put too much weight in the rear corner unless you balance it out up front. This boat needs weight ALL over. Our rear plug and play sacs do not even go all the way up the side, they go to the beginning of the side storage so that we still have our entire side storage available. So our daily weight is about 1200 sac in the corner, 1100 lbs up front and then about 600 lbs on the opposite surf corner. Thats about 3k, but it doesnt' feel like that at all because there is very little list, about 8 degrees (our 24Ve was almost 20, and our RZ2 was about 15 or so) and the rub rail is 6 - 8 inches off the water. With this weighting the boat has tons of power, a nice lip, good length and a smooth transition. I am a BIG dude, about 400 lbs and in the 24Ve and RZ2 I would sit in the corner to give the boat extra push. With the Z3, I actually drive for RJ (goofy) and sit in the observer area when regular.

This device makes the boat more forgiving to weight, it was much easier to overweight before and destroy the transition, and now the hull extension makes that much tougher.

I do not have any experience with the surfgate but have heard lots of feedback and your statements are the same I have heard. It switches fast but not the best wake, compared to what more hard core surfers are used to.

I don't want to take away that the Surfgate is a genuine innovation, it is very cool and I can imagine it will only get better. Last november when I was at the tige factory testing the Z3 they talked to me about this device (in general terms) and discussed something else, more similar to Surfgate that they seemed to be more excited about. My feedback was that IMHO they should concentrate on making the best possible wake surf wake on one side. IMHO the challenge was a great transition and adjustability. I even stayed up all night while in Abilene downloading videos from home so that I could show them in the morning, why adjustability is so important. A boat weighted that makes a great wake that can satisfy a skimmer like Vanessa Gonzalez or Bri Chmel and then also a rider like Chase Hazen that wants a wall to launch off of. We tested all summer and invited many of these riders.

That said, the question is whether or not having the ability to do tricks and enjoy the novelty of going from side to side instantly is going to drive the market more, or making the best wake possible on both sides but that can switch in minutes, not seconds. We switch from side to side in 4 minutes using a special pump we did, and I believe that kind of system will be offered in the future as an option. Don't quote me, though. To date, I have never felt like I wanted that switch to go faster. We are chilling on the boat, sometimes jump in, most of the time the boat is ready on the other side before we are.
I agree with the switch over time statement. It's a great idea,but wave quality is much more important. Thanks for all you do helping develop the perfect wave.Even though i know your having fun doing the research.
Old    Jonathan Bay (john211)      Join Date: Aug 2008       10-11-2012, 4:04 PM Reply   
"I think its too close to the deck for anyone but a kid to use as a ladder, and even so, it was designed to take the load of surfing a 5k boat with say 4k of weight in it. Dennis and I both stood on the swim deck and it felt rock solid, that is about 700 lbs."

I'd be concerned about any of the mounting bolts, brackets, and/or heel of the transom not being strong enough for the job over time.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       10-11-2012, 4:46 PM Reply   
I like seeing these innovations. It is cool to see an attempt at making these boats better. The interesting part is that I see this innovation and the surfgate as being introduced for 2 completely different reasons and to appeal to 2 completely different users. This innovation is only going to appeal to the hardcore rider and/or wave snob. It isnt' going to do much for the wekeend warrior. It is seems to appeal strictly to the guy who wants a picture perfect wave. It doesn't make the wave switch sides any better, it doesn't mean you can run less weight, etc. On the other hand surfgate allows the boat to be evenly weighted and switched from side to side easily. This greatly appeals to probably 90% of the boat buying public as most are just looking to make a wave that can allow a beginner to have fun and maybe drop the rope.

I think both innovations are kind of cool but I have a feeling the surfgate will have a much better return on investment for the boat builders.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       10-11-2012, 8:04 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by polarbill View Post
I like seeing these innovations. It is cool to see an attempt at making these boats better. The interesting part is that I see this innovation and the surfgate as being introduced for 2 completely different reasons and to appeal to 2 completely different users. This innovation is only going to appeal to the hardcore rider and/or wave snob. It isnt' going to do much for the wekeend warrior. It is seems to appeal strictly to the guy who wants a picture perfect wave. It doesn't make the wave switch sides any better, it doesn't mean you can run less weight, etc. On the other hand surfgate allows the boat to be evenly weighted and switched from side to side easily. This greatly appeals to probably 90% of the boat buying public as most are just looking to make a wave that can allow a beginner to have fun and maybe drop the rope.

I think both innovations are kind of cool but I have a feeling the surfgate will have a much better return on investment for the boat builders.
True for the initial purchase,but the Tige device could be added much more reasonable after the purchase.When the purchaser has progressed to the true wake snob status it would be a inexpensive add on.Most Malibu owners either Ski or Wakeboard. Very few surf compared to the number of boats they sell.
Old    Dave Diaz (wakebrdr94)      Join Date: Jul 2010       10-11-2012, 11:24 PM Reply   
"It doesn't affect the wake board wake. If you look at the design, it is about 1/4" above the hull so it doesn't engage at WB speeds. I got the boat up to speed several times, I don't notice any difference in handling, and it reverses the same as before."

I want to see video at wakeboard speed. I can see at full throttle the device being out of the water, but with full Ballast and the weight you were running, I cannot see that device not being in the water. Also the reverse question is a good one. I can see it reversing, just maybe slower as you are "scooping" water as you go
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       10-11-2012, 11:28 PM Reply   
We will test it wakeboarding and get video and images after this weekend, but I didn't see or notice anything different at the time, but we weren't weighted for WB. As far as reverse, I maneuvered around the dock and got gas and went in and out of our slip and it felt just like before. Maybe if you reverse at higher speed you would notice.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       10-12-2012, 6:12 AM Reply   
Considering inboards for the most part do not steer in reverse not sure who is reversing at high speeds. Unless you have another rudder on the front side of the prop so you can high speed reverse it's never going to scoop any water. Not due to the design, but due to the speed we use these boats in reverse. Speed is way to low. I really see this as a non issue.

I have a hydraulics/fluid power degree, but I am not a naval engineer but Robert should be right. At planing speed the back of the hull is always going to be on top of the water, weighted, unweighted, 25, or WOT. If the boat is on plane the bottom of the hull at the back of the boat is on top of the water. So logically if the boat is on "plane" then the BGB should not be engaging the water. So at regular riding speeds I think it will be above the water. Problem I could see is at lower speeds with kids or new riders, say 15-18. When the boat is barging and not really on plane. I envision this thing like the flap on the back of the Zamboni. It's purpose is to cut the spray and smooth. Like the mud flap he said he was running. I also wonder if the wake starts farther back.

Last edited by boardman74; 10-12-2012 at 6:16 AM.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       10-12-2012, 6:53 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardman74 View Post
Considering inboards for the most part do not steer in reverse not sure who is reversing at high speeds. Unless you have another rudder on the front side of the prop so you can high speed reverse it's never going to scoop any water. Not due to the design, but due to the speed we use these boats in reverse. Speed is way to low. I really see this as a non issue.

I have a hydraulics/fluid power degree, but I am not a naval engineer but Robert should be right. At planing speed the back of the hull is always going to be on top of the water, weighted, unweighted, 25, or WOT. If the boat is on plane the bottom of the hull at the back of the boat is on top of the water. So logically if the boat is on "plane" then the BGB should not be engaging the water. So at regular riding speeds I think it will be above the water. Problem I could see is at lower speeds with kids or new riders, say 15-18. When the boat is barging and not really on plane. I envision this thing like the flap on the back of the Zamboni. It's purpose is to cut the spray and smooth. Like the mud flap he said he was running. I also wonder if the wake starts farther back.
Depends on the angle of attack of the hull and how this thing rises up and how much/how quickly. TAPS is designed to change the attitude of the hull, so if you go taps up, it drops the stern down to a certain extent, not just allows the bow to rise.

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