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Old    Riley Poor (riz)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-20-2012, 8:14 AM Reply   
As we approach the end of the regular wakeboard season I want to find out how people are staying in shape and the type of wake-specific training they do.

I've had 9 operations including a couple of ACL tears, a dislocating shoulder, and a handful of meniscus procedures--needless to say most of the training I do now is just to maintain my joints. After speaking with my spine doctor he told me that I should stop cycling: his point was that my aggressive cycling program through the years have trained the wrong muscles and overdeveloped slow-twitch muscle fibers, when sports like wakeboarding require more explosive movements and shorter, high intensity intervals. He recommended crossfit. While I understand the science behind this sport-specific training, I still think, as well as my knee surgeon, that cycling is the absolute best training I could do to promote good joint health in my knees-- especially during the rehab phase.

I work in physical therapy and am a personal trainer as well. I think wakeboarding is insanely hard on the body, and is truly a "young person's sport". But I love it and so I'll keep riding and probably continue to wreck myself. But as I approach my 30's I realize bodies change, muscle mass is not so easily gained, flexibility is lost and those "old injuries" start to creep back and haunt me. I'm a shoe-in for a total knee replacement in my 40/50s-- but whatever.

What are you doing for training? Crossfit? Yoga? Marathons? Trampolines? Is it just resistance training with minimal cardio? There is a model for good wake-specific, off season training somewhere in all of this.
Old    Bryce Stevens (SS_Hooke102)      Join Date: Sep 2011       09-20-2012, 10:12 AM Reply   
buy a snowboard, very similar movements.
Old    Riley Poor (riz)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-20-2012, 11:03 AM Reply   
I snowboard all winter--with a vengeance. Although many of the tricks are similar in technique, snowboarding and wakeboarding use very different movement concepts in relationship to "board riding". Most significant is the independent edge/ torsional flex of the snowboard. The American Association of Snowboard Instructors teaching model rests heavy on this concept of independent edge-use to initiate turns. Second, rotary movements are more prominent in snowboarding. Wakeboarders flex our joints to edge, with little twisting through the legs to move about (however we do twist considerably through the spine on toeside approches).

I could go on--but that's neither here nor there. Snowboarding is awesome--I'm just looking for a little deeper reply as to how people train in the gym for wakeboarding-- sport specific training.
Old    Dave (bcrider)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-20-2012, 11:12 AM Reply   
I snowboard and do a lot of kickboxing which helps with the cardio and keeps me in a routine of stretching. I will tell you one thing, as person that has been active all my life and snowboarded/wakeboarded for over 18 years turning 30 was fine. Turning 31 is when my body started pushing back. Now, at 33 one ride and my back aches for a couple days. Quite a long time ago somebody posted this. http://wake2wakefitness.com/ never gone through it much but it's supposed to be fitness for riding.
Old    Riley Poor (riz)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-20-2012, 11:23 AM Reply   
I'm scared to turn 30
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            09-20-2012, 2:25 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by riz View Post
I'm scared to turn 30
30 was the best yr of my life...filed for divorce, got into wakeboarding & sup, bought a luxury suv & boat and started livin life lol
Old    Chris Gawenda (ToPHeR35)      Join Date: Jul 2011       09-20-2012, 4:24 PM Reply   
Just think about the movements on a wakeboard and come up with your own exercises in the gym.

Example: Wakeboarding requires alot of core strength with rotation
Solution: Pocket pickers or use the cable and pivot across your body working your abs


Example: Wakeboarding requires a good deal of strength to hold onto the handle
Solution: Forearm curls

Example: Leg strength is a must for boarding
Solution: Squats


etc...
Old    Mark Griffin (cheesydog)      Join Date: Mar 2009       09-20-2012, 6:19 PM Reply   
compound movements in the gym 5x5 is an excellent strength program.

Squats and deadlifts, bench and overhead press to a lesser extent. These exercises will make you strong for anything, including wakeboarding.

I turn 33 this year and I feel stronger than I did 10 years ago

boat https://vimeo.com/42958730

cable https://vimeo.com/36012046
Old    Ben Wilcox (benjaminp)      Join Date: Nov 2008       09-20-2012, 8:45 PM Reply   
I rock climb, specifically bouldering. Proper technique on most of the problems involves a lot of twisting through your core, similar to toeside approaches. Climbing works your core really hard, as well as arms, back, shoulders, and sometimes legs. I also get a nice bit of crossover with route climbing to build some endurance to balance out the bouldering power and strength. I love the workout from climbing because I can do it for hours and not realize I'm getting worked until I'm too sore to stay on the wall. It also tears your hands to shreds, good prep for crappy cable handles.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       09-21-2012, 6:52 AM Reply   
Body weight exercises, dips, pushups, pullups, hand stand pushups all develop stabilizing muscles used in wake when you land awkwardly. Your prof says sponsored, so you must be in pretty good shape. I like mtn biking lately, trail running, lift weights twice a week, I ski hard in the winter.

Xfit is great for getting lean and ripped, I didn't like the atmosphere but believe in the concept. Compound workouts like the snatch, thrusters, giant sets to target cardio and muscle endurance are all good concepts xfit builds on. When I lift, I workout the large muscle groups... chest, back, shoulders and legs, the arms get their workout during all of those workouts and I insert core and stretching every day I lift to try to get better at those... I'm stiff, can't touch my toes, working on it. I've got some herniated disks but they've been feeling better, probably due to not riding as much living away from a lake but when I do get out, the mtn biking, and upper body stuff I do all translates into feeling great.

P.S. your spine doc is probably right, you're in the medical profession and you disagree? Need to be well rounded

Oh and Ben, climbing is BA, wish I did more of it, climbers have the strongest hands and forearms and backs
Old     (J)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-21-2012, 8:58 AM Reply   
I have had torn meniscus in both knees. Left knee was not repairable, so had it removed. Right knee was repaired and also had micro fracture repair for chondyl damage. High intensity jumping around exercise like some programs is just asking for trouble. Keep up the cycling (my dr recommendation) and stay with the body weight stuff. If I am going to risk injury, it will be out on the water doing something I love, not jumping on boxes in the gym. My $.02
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       09-21-2012, 1:18 PM Reply   
Box jumps are body weight haha. I personally would end my wakeboard "career" if I was so worried about injury that I wouldn't box jump, squat, lunge, deadlift, or do a plethora of other movements and exercises.
Old    Brad Riddick (riddick)      Join Date: Jan 2010       09-21-2012, 3:06 PM Reply   
A lot of 50-100 yard sprints with 10-20 sec rests, 800-1000 yards per workout. Sprints > jogging.

150-200 push ups (take as many sets needed to finish) 10-20 sec rests.

Crunches, toe touches, then planks. 4 sets of twenty, no rest between sets.

About a twenty min high intensity workout that will rock anyones world, and you can do them just about anywhere.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       09-21-2012, 4:26 PM Reply   
Add in burpees and your body will be happy
Old    Jason (Hooya)      Join Date: Aug 2011       09-22-2012, 5:58 AM Reply   
As a PT I am surprised you are not sure on what you should be doing. Just a few thoughts based on what I have read in this thread so far.

Personally, I can't see how cycling will help with your knee. Most people with bad knees cycle to keep the rest of the body healthy whilst not impacting their knee. That does not mean it maintains a healthy knee. Most non impact ACL injuries are caused by imbalances in other parts of the body.

Personally in off season I try to put on mass purely because I get more rest periods than I would during the summer if I were wakeboarding as well. But either way you should be doing strength training on your glutes, hams, and quads if you have problems with your knees. Less reps more weight will work best. (assuming you are cleared to do so-but if not you shouldn't be on the water imo)

My suggestion would be:-

Day 1 -spine and hip mobility drills- think x band walks, spinal clocks, spinal rotations, glute bridges.
-ACL Injury Prevention work. There is a really good website about this.

Day 2/3/4 I would do a 3 day strength split routine. I like 5x5 like someone mentioned but maybe too much (squating) for you but you can make up your own routine. I wouldn't do cross fit because I think it could be too many repetitions for you. And by nature they do a lot of cheat reps and form can wobble as you are against the clock. Great for some but probably not for you.

I wouldn't worry about forearm curls to be honest. Better off working on your traps and rear delts and core strength. Your forearms only get tired because other muscles are fatiguing. And curls do very little increase endurance in the forearm anyway. Better of doing farmers walks for grip strength

I like Brads HIT as well. Anything like that once or twice a week will keep the winter lbs off. I currently do body squats and pressup supersets. Start at 15 of each and then 14,13,12 etc until your get down to 0. Then do 30 secs on 15 secs off of burpees, Then some form on row superset with medicine ball throws. And if you do that all non-stop which could take you 30 mins depending on number of sets. You will be dead on the floor but feel great.

Not sure I would agree it is young persons sport...I started at 34 (now 36). So much easier on your joints than say snowboarding or skiing. Turning 30 is no different than turning 25 or 35. You feel exactly the same as you did before. Sure things don't heal as well a before but you can work on those things.

If you can't jump around doing simple plyos you should NOT be wakeboarding imo.

This is most important thing. Don't listen to me and don't listen to people who have never done a squat in their life. Go find a specialist personal trainer. A poliquin trainer, joe defranco or places like D1 Sports who can prepare your body for what you want to do. And they will be able to correct most imbalances your Dr probably doesn't even know exists.
Old    Kyle Linsey (kyle_L)      Join Date: Mar 2010       09-23-2012, 5:43 AM Reply   
Ive been doing crossfit for the past six weeks combined with a high protein low carb diet and feel amazing. I too have very bad knees from the years of punishment and they have never felt better. The workouts are all designed to be functional to your daily routines focusing on a lot on not just core but also arm strength and leg strength. My right knee is normally throbbing after a day of walking around the hospital and it seems the pain has resolved. I think you should give it a shot for a minimum of three weeks (was very sore the first two weeks) and you will get hooked.
Old    Jody (NewWakeGirl)      Join Date: Aug 2011       09-23-2012, 6:16 PM Reply   
I think if you workout and get the right supplements/food your riding shouldn't really get worse in your 30's. I didn't even learn until I was 34....but granted I don't know what it was like at 24..... Too bad there isn't a good machine specifically for wakeboarding type of workout, working balance and arms at same time. If you have injuries though, I would think Yoga would be a great. But looks like snowboarding is the most similar to wakeboarding. But I'm with a lot of the folks here, if I'm going to hurt myself, it's going to be doing something I love....
Old    Diana Appleby (ApplebyMommy)      Join Date: Sep 2012       09-23-2012, 6:42 PM Reply   
Do you have a Pure Barre where you live? In addition to running, biking, xfit cardio classes, and water sports. I incorporate Pure Barre once a week. Great for strength and flexibility.
Old    Jason (Hooya)      Join Date: Aug 2011       09-24-2012, 5:49 AM Reply   
"Too bad there isn't a good machine specifically for wakeboarding type of workout, working balance and arms at same time."

there is...it's called wakeboarding;-)

At the end of the day if you just want to train generally for a particular sport you can't go far wrong in just doing that sport. However, if you want to improve various aspects of your body to allow you to do that sport better then you have to train in the individual muscles to make big improvements.
Old    Baitkiller (baitkiller)      Join Date: Jan 2010       09-24-2012, 6:06 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooya View Post
"Too bad there isn't a good machine specifically for wakeboarding type of workout, working balance and arms at same time."

there is...it's called wakeboarding;-)

At the end of the day if you just want to train generally for a particular sport you can't go far wrong in just doing that sport. However, if you want to improve various aspects of your body to allow you to do that sport better then you have to train in the individual muscles to make big improvements.

A rowing machine is just such a contraption. My rower will kick your ass in 10 min or less and works all the core, back arm, shoulder and leg muscles used in wake and snow sports. If I didn't row all winter I would be a cripple after my first spring set.
46 years old and out of warranty but still riding.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       09-24-2012, 6:08 AM Reply   
Rower is good, but you still need strength as well as endurance. Weights combined with stretching, biking, rowing, core all add up to injury free sports

What I mean is, yes, rowing is sick, I used to do crew, but there is no magical fix, you still have to balance it out.
Old    Riley Poor (riz)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-24-2012, 5:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooya View Post
As a PT I am surprised you are not sure on what you should be doing.
I was just curious to see what other people are doing-- thought it would be an interesting thread.
Old    Joe Jones (BamaLurker)      Join Date: Dec 2011       09-24-2012, 9:09 PM Reply   
Sup
Old    Jody (NewWakeGirl)      Join Date: Aug 2011       09-24-2012, 10:23 PM Reply   
haha Jason and Joe I think he's talking about when it's too cold to be on the water, granted I know some people pull out the drysuits but not everyone will or can go to that. Funny, I was really thinking about a rower but thought you guys would think that was an odd idea. But that sounds good for a nice off season workout, but maybe still not an optioin for those with the knee or ankle injuries. But great thread :-)
Old    Brian Deegan (irishrider92)      Join Date: Jun 2009       09-25-2012, 5:28 AM Reply   
Definitely do some box jumps, trampolining,, sprints etc to get some good fast twitch muscle going. General core work;, planks,, side planks, ab rollouts, cross body crunches. Do leg extensions as well as general leg exercises, emphasising the last 15 degrees of extension, to work your VMO, maybe doing some sets of just the last 15 degrees. Neglecting it is what caused me to tear my ACL. Also for fast twitches, do the exercise where you mark out a circle using 8 points with a 9th in the middle of the circle, and hop from the centre to each point and back. Work your back, and biceps too, so dumbell rows, inverted rows, pull ups, lat pull downs, etc. Also think about what your set is made up of; high intensity exercises, with active intervals, so probably try doing HIIT sessions for about 20 minutes for cardiovascular fitness.

Finally, check out this stretch Iit really opened up my squats and made my flexibility much better.
Old    Jason (Hooya)      Join Date: Aug 2011       09-25-2012, 6:06 AM Reply   
"t maybe still not an optioin for those with the knee or ankle injuries."

again I would suggest if you can't indoor row because of these things then you probably shouldn't be wakeboarding imo.
Old    Jason (Hooya)      Join Date: Aug 2011       09-25-2012, 6:07 AM Reply   
nice post Brain
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       09-25-2012, 6:43 AM Reply   
Rowing was never frowned upon by any knee doctor that I've specifically dealt with. You'll want to exercise good form, obviously you don't want to snap your knee straight/ever lock it out but it's a great workout and I had a gf recovering from ACL and she wasn't limited on the rower after a little while I am pretty sure.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       09-25-2012, 8:29 AM Reply   
If you're a PT then you should have a pretty good handle on what to do.

The reason that I don't like a lot of rowing and cycling, is because you're often out of alignment when doing these. Both rowing and cycling usually require that your spine be in flexion and your pelvis be in posterior tilt (tucked). If you sit for a living like me, that's just more of the same.

To stay in shape for wakeboarding, I do a lot of full-body, integrated movements, in circuits, and I work in all three planes. Nothing in wakeboarding is isolated, so your training shouldn't be either. I also do a mix of all three contraction types, and mix in high impact, reactive exercises so that my body stays familiar with landing in the flats.

A couple of my favorites:

1. Instead of doing a worthless bench press that is really good for nothing, try setting a 45 lb plate on your back and doing weighted pushups. Doing the push pattern in the prone position, un-supported by a bench, will force you to develop great core strength.

2. If you do a box jump (up), do the jump down too, and jump big. Practice the coordination for landing soft and smooth. Also, don't just jump forward (sagital plane), jump lateral (or frontal), and jump transverse. 90, or 180 up onto the box, and then back down.

3. Do EVERYTHING standing up. Sitting down is weak......for anything. Standing forces you to engage the core and move in proper alignment.

4. Do real squats and lunges. That sled thing where you lay on your back is bull****, even if you can push 10 plates on each side. And unless you are doing PT for an imbalance or rehab, leg extensions and curls are also a waste. They're likely to cause you more problems. Train your body to fire in a squat pattern so that your glutes, quads, and hams coordinate properly.

5. Do your back exercises standing and bent over. For example, try dumbell rows or reverse flies without the support of a bench, or anything else. Your core and lower back will develop much stronger this way.
Old    Daniel Bragg (twowake)      Join Date: Jun 2010       09-25-2012, 9:21 AM Reply   
I am going to try just swimming in the pool at the local Y and weights. I also have a garage with a trampoline and handle tied to the rafters that me and my crew train on during the winter. I am 38 and have had back surgery and my right knee has had scope, bilateral release and micro fracture. My ortho says 7-10 years and double knee replacements. I have rode great this year until i went mountain biking last weekend and now my knee is swollen and hurting. I got a shot in it yesterday. Hopefully be back to riding before the season is over. Running, squats and jumping on hard surfaces is out for me. I f you have any suggestions i would love to hear them.

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