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Old    Andrew Simmons (Andrew14)      Join Date: Apr 2011       09-19-2012, 11:31 AM Reply   
Hi all - beginner/intermediate rider here with a quick question. When watching videos, tournaments, etc. I've noticed that it looks like some riders give the handle a quick pull/tug as they are hitting the wake both Heelside/Toeside. Do you better riders out there do this and if so, is it for every jump/trick or for just some tricks your are throwing (maybe a spin)? I've been struggling with keeping the handle low and to my waist in the air, so I was wondering if giving the rope a tug on the way up the wake is what I should be doing. Thanks in advance.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       09-19-2012, 11:53 AM Reply   
NO!!! I sometimes do this to help my edge/flip for a mexi-roll but if it's just a wake jump you'll end up off balance
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       09-19-2012, 11:53 AM Reply   
Just keep it tight to your hip with constant increasing tension from your edge
Old    Ben Wilcox (benjaminp)      Join Date: Nov 2008       09-19-2012, 12:52 PM Reply   
I do it every time. More so on spins higher than a 180, but I def do it every time. Just helps me get a little extra pop off the wake.
Old    DC (durty_curt)      Join Date: Apr 2008       09-19-2012, 3:36 PM Reply   
Yes I do pull/tug on the handle Everytime i come in heel side to get more umph! I find it helps me get a little more arch/hang time in my wake jumps. The only time i don't do it is on tantrums. And I do it ever so often on my you're side edge (still trying to get the tug perfect on my toes). IF your wake jumps are very consistent then try it out. But if your still learning how to go w2w i don't recommend doing it yet.
Old    Spencer Coon (spencercoon)      Join Date: Mar 2011       09-19-2012, 5:19 PM Reply   
Agreed. Almost always and more so on spins great than 180..
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       09-19-2012, 6:17 PM Reply   
I begin my cut with arms loose, pull about halfway in and down as I edge harder and pull tight to hip right when I get to the trough before the wake. I feel like this accelerates me rapidly right as I hit the wake... More air and distance and done in a smooth motion. Maybe good technique, maybe not, but it's what feels comfortable to me.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       09-19-2012, 6:35 PM Reply   
how do you guys get away with this? im truly curious, i get pitched off balance... especially on spins, i keep the handle in closer but keep it there the whole time before a 3 because if you tug a spin too early (before you leave the wake) you end up in trouble...
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-19-2012, 6:38 PM Reply   
For me it's more like a tug-o-war. As i approach the wake i have the handle low and in front of my lead hip.As i stand tall my arms are straight and i lean had against the rope till it touches my lead hip.Much like you would do in a Tug-o-war.
Old    Ben Wilcox (benjaminp)      Join Date: Nov 2008       09-19-2012, 7:13 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
how do you guys get away with this? im truly curious, i get pitched off balance... especially on spins, i keep the handle in closer but keep it there the whole time before a 3 because if you tug a spin too early (before you leave the wake) you end up in trouble...
Just dont pull too early? Pop pull pass.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       09-19-2012, 7:17 PM Reply   
Right the pull comes after you leave the wake? This is actually an interesting thread.
I do like shota. Turn pull in and lock it up in that spot until you release off the wake http://vimeo.com/m/29653187
Old    Ben Wilcox (benjaminp)      Join Date: Nov 2008       09-20-2012, 8:39 AM Reply   
If you're trying to spin, then yes pull after you've left the wake. You're experiencing exactly what happens when you try to spin through the wake (snowboard style). I pull in some when going up the wake as I stand tall, but if I'm spinning there is a hard yank after I've left the wake.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       09-20-2012, 8:47 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by benjaminp View Post
If you're trying to spin, then yes pull after you've left the wake. You're experiencing exactly what happens when you try to spin through the wake (snowboard style). I pull in some when going up the wake as I stand tall, but if I'm spinning there is a hard yank after I've left the wake.
and i snowboard and retraining my muscles to wait has been difficult. but still pulling in the handle seems counter productive to me, like i said i give extra tension prior to a roll ( makes it more half progressive half mexi) but thats the only trick

somebody maybe post a video?
Old    Spencer Coon (spencercoon)      Join Date: Mar 2011       09-20-2012, 8:54 AM Reply   
http://youtu.be/dnsjWhk0yNc

Tough to see in this vid. I'm no pro but pulling in as I ride up the wake is how I do things. Maybe I need to change...
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       09-20-2012, 11:22 AM Reply   
Nice spins spence! You def. pull that handle
My riding is pretty Mediocre but for only ridding 3 months a year this is what you get. http://vimeo.com/m/49840225
You can see that I do NOT pull the handle and feel i get pretty good pop for an intermediate. Also don't make fun of my editing, my premier elements decided not to work so movie maker has to do it
Old    Spencer Coon (spencercoon)      Join Date: Mar 2011       09-20-2012, 1:17 PM Reply   
Ya definitely no initial pull before your jumps. Nice riding! I would be interested in some professional input though. My guess is that it would depend on the trick you're preparing for.
Old    Andrew Simmons (Andrew14)      Join Date: Apr 2011       09-20-2012, 1:46 PM Reply   
Great information here - thank you all for the responses. Looks like I need to slowly start working on this to improve my riding.

As a follow-up 101 question, where are you guys looking when you're cutting in heel-side and what do you use as your "timing device" to know when to stand tall? I've heard/read everything from look at the bottom of the wake, look at the top of the wake to don't look at the wake at all. What has worked best for me is to look across the wake but pick it up in my peripheral vision as I come into it and to not really concentrate/focus on standing tall but rather just arch my back some as I sense I am getting close to the wake. However, I only have about a 5-10% success rate in actually feeling the pop/lift from the wake. When I watch people who can really ride, it looks like they cut in aggressively with their butts almost dragging the water, then around the white wash they start to stand tall and at the wake they are pretty much flat-based with their knees locked-out....then they just boost straight-up.

Thanks for the help - these are some of the questions that me and my riding buddies discuss on a weekly basis but can't seem to figure out on our own.
Old    Spencer Coon (spencercoon)      Join Date: Mar 2011       09-20-2012, 2:05 PM Reply   
Andrew this may not be how everyone else does it but I just look right at the wake as I am cutting in. As I see/feel myself drop into the trough(right before edging up the wake) I begin to extend my legs and slightly pulling the handle in & low. You need to time it right so that your legs are fully extended right at the crest. It takes a little bit to adjust the timing of the pop depending on wake size/shape. Just practice...
Old    Travis Briscoe (travis_briscoe)      Join Date: Sep 2005       09-20-2012, 2:11 PM Reply   
After watching a video of myself, it seems that I definitely wait for the pop before I'm really tugging on the handle. It is fairly easy to see on the 3's in this video, and a bit harder perhaps to see it on the 5s -->

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10100755404764897

I apologize if you have to login to watch that, I know it's a pain.

As for the cut in, I agree with what Spencer just mentioned about looking at the wake on the way in, which will help with one's timing for the pop.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       09-20-2012, 2:11 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by spencercoon View Post
Ya definitely no initial pull before your jumps. Nice riding! I would be interested in some professional input though. My guess is that it would depend on the trick you're preparing for.
Thank you sir. I definitely load the line before my roll but that's with my edge more than any pull. I was taught (by a pro) to build tension with the edge. I have a feeling this is just a matter of what works for you and that's it. I find an Extra "tug" at the handle throws me off balance and diminishes my pop, but if it helps you then stick to your guns

I'd just be curious how pros and coaches teach their students if they are complete beginners though
Old    Andy Nintzel (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-20-2012, 3:14 PM Reply   
I think that this needs some clarification. I think what youíre referring to is a rider advancing themselves towards the boat in order to spin. In general you really donít what to start pulling in the handle until you have left the wake. Some riders can and do start this early really not before they are riding up the wake. Almost all spin moves in wakeboarding require you to advance yourself towards the boat to spin. This does two things first, and the most obvious, is that it begins the rotation, secondly but most importantly this breaks the line tension so you can actually pass the handle. There are some inverts that you do this on as well, roll to blind comes to mind so does a front mobe, but there are others. Generally speaking you want to have fairly little arm movement until you are in the air.

Now there are exceptions to this, and some riders that have little quirks that they do just off the top of my head I can think of Adam Errignton he kind tugs the handle at the wake, JB O'Neill does a little almost pre-ollie at the base of the wake on his HS, Adksion drops his butt way down as he is cutting in, etc. you get the point. Nothing is really right or wrong as long as you can make it work for you and the guys I motioned definably do that. All this being said, keeping your arms in snug to your waist and waiting until you leave the wake before you pull the handle in general works for the masses it's tested and true.

Hope this helps somewhat.
Old    Andrew Simmons (Andrew14)      Join Date: Apr 2011       09-21-2012, 8:25 AM Reply   
Andy/Spencer/Simple - thank you for the great instruction/insight. You've given me some things to work on this weekend. I think I'm gonna take it back to basics and work on one-wake jumps focusing on keeping the handle in/low at my lead hip and standing tall through the wake. I've realized I have to get this down in order to progress (I've hit a major plateau in my riding that I'd like to get past).

Thanks guys
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       09-21-2012, 11:38 AM Reply   
no problem andrew thats what wakeworld is for.

briscoe, damn i need to add some speed and line length, i pop up nice and high but i dont have that kind of hangtime
Old    Greg Smith (greg_smith)      Join Date: Sep 2006       09-28-2012, 8:25 PM Reply   
that one trick was crazy. the take off looked like a scarecrow but ended up being a... frontroll!?!?!? i had to watch it a couple times to see if it was an elephant or what exactly happened there.

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