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Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-15-2012, 7:59 AM Reply   
Yesterday we spent the afternoon checking out the new 2013 Tige boats. We had looked at a 2012 R20 and liked the size and room but just not the plainness of the boat. Let me say Tige really changed the R20 for 2013 and it looks alot better. ALOT. I will tell you the changes we noticed.

-Vinyl right off. More color, texture and just looks worlds better.
-Seadek on the walk thru..looks awesome and classier
-Rear corner seats flip over to carpet so you don't step on vinyl getting in the boat
-Cooler is gone under seat behind the driver and compartments totally open stern to bow. Way more storage!!
Hard tanks in the front. Same weight
More chrome and accent in the boat.
Bow filler with a cooler underneath, but walk-thru still open..no playpen. Wife hates the playpen.
New dash is nice.

I have been vocal about how the R20 looked and felt cheap for way to much money. Mainly because this is the size we want and we liked the shape and size of the boat. It's a boat i really wanted to like. The 2013 looks like a different boat night and day. I was super impressed. As for pricing, I was quoted almost $5000 less than the much more plain 2012. But this is another dealer and he is much more aggressive on pricing. But the retarded MSRP from Tige is north of 60K!! We dealt with the owner(small family owned!!) and felt very comfortable and like the numbers where fair for us and them. I really wasn't planning on buying new, but he hit me with a number that really made me stop and consider it. We are demoing the boat Sunday!!

Other tough thing is he offered me an RZR for not alot more. Still 2013 and obviously way more decked out. Payment would only be about $40 more a month. Considering the resale should be better may be worth it. Plus you get the full warranty for 3 years and the maintenance for 3 years. You don't get either with the R20. Little more up front cost but literally no financial exposure for the first 3 years, not even oil changes and water pumps. You could get stung pretty hard paying labor on a major repair on the R20 in year 2? Any input from RZR or R20 owners and why you bought what being they are the same boat. Warranty, resale, features?

Not looking to hear why Tige sucks!! LOL I am well aware that MC, CC, Malibu, Sanger, Axis, Moomba, and Supra are all better!! Joking! But I like the R20/RZR size and it works for my family and our target budget. I'm riding a 1997 Pro Am Skier now, probably never heard of it, so it's a big step up for us. I would also consider the other little 20 Vdrives if offered a 2013 for the same money, but the others are 10K more.
Old    Skippabcool (skippabcool)      Join Date: Mar 2011       09-15-2012, 8:45 AM Reply   
You may want to go to tigeowners.com and ask over there to get opinions, likes, dislikes, about both boats. Good to hear that it sounds like there has been some improvements.

Is there anything particular that you are wanting to do with the boat or will it be an all around? surf, wakeboard, tube, ski, hang out, etc ... I would make sure that you do what ever it is that you want while you are on the demo.

Hope your demo goes good and you find the boat that is right for you and your family.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-15-2012, 9:21 AM Reply   
As far as reliability Tige has PCM power plants .They are known for their reliability. I have owned 2 Tiges ,a 2007 22Ve and a 2011 RZ2. I put 425 trouble free hours on the the 2007 and we have 225 trouble free hours on our 2011.Like Skippabcool said their are many threads on Tige Owners ,both good and bad about Tige experiences.All of the threads where owners had issues were resolved by Tige. I in no way am saying dealer issues were fixed,only issues with their boats.As for your dealer ask Tige owners in your area,that's the best source for honest information.Good Luck!
Old    KEVIN (kko13)      Join Date: Jul 2006       09-15-2012, 11:56 AM Reply   
Glad yo went to check them out. If you like what you see...wait until you drive them. They ride and drive sooooo nice. Both the R20 and RZR produce great wakes both wake and surf. It really comes down to how much you want to spend IMPO..the 360 plan is nice...If you use the boat alot the savings will be greater obviously..Its going to be so night and day from what you have now your going to flip. As far as the warranty goes.... yes a boat is going to have little stuff in the early stages to get worked out (no matter what brand) I work on these boats everyday including the warranty work and a major failure is very rare. You could also look into and aftermarket warranty to give you piece of mind. Then again by the time you purchase that you might be close enough to the RZR price that it would be a better choice. Either boat is going to serve your family well and I know you will love it! Good Luck and have fun on your demo!!
I am a Tige guy I dont deny that. But I work on every brand of ski/wake boat and can assure you Tiges are built well (As well as any of "The big 3") and they stand behind their product.
If you have any specifc questions about the boats let me know. I will do my best to answer them for you.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       09-15-2012, 12:11 PM Reply   
In 2011 we were literally In the same boat. We got a much better offer for the r20 but a deal that we could refuse on the rzr. I don't know what your main disciplines are but te surf wake and wakeboard wake are stellar for a 20 footer. Head over to TIGE owners for pics and threads. The boat is well built, and feels really solid over rollers etc. I have very few complaints. The boat is narrow but, it feels about as big as the last gen star inside. I wouldn't say the wake will get to "pro level" but it gets pretty big it's got a decent length transition with a super crisp lip, it's also quite wide. I've tossed water over the gunnels of my buddys star before...343 is more than enough motor as well. Good luck!
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       09-15-2012, 1:31 PM Reply   
Be sure to check out the wake at 95 feet...
Old    TJ (Houstonshark)      Join Date: Jan 2011       09-15-2012, 2:23 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ixfe View Post
Be sure to check out the wake at 95 feet...
Nice!

We were also in the same boat, like Simplej last year when trying to decide what 20' boat to get. We looked at all of the models at the Houston boat show for the last 2 years and just kept coming back to Tige.

We loved the sharp lines of the RZR and all of the custom color options and when all was said and done that's what we ended up with. The boat looked great and had some really cool standard features but the bottom line is the boat performed very well.

We test drove the MC X2 and RZR back to back and while the X2 was a nice boat, it didn't handle as good, and barely had a surfable wake compared to the RZR. The wakeboard wakes were similar but the water was choppy so it was kinda hard to tell.

If the RZR is only a little more than the R20, to me, it's a no brainer. Definitely get the surf ballast and if you can swing it, get the clamping board racks. They are very expensive but are super nice, convenient really hold the boards well.

The Service360 is a great piece of mind and even though it's not that difficult to do all the maintenance yourself, it's really nice to have the dealer put their hands on the boat every 50hrs. They find things that you may normally miss since that's what they do every day.

My dealer is about 2 hours from our river house where I keep the boat so it's a bit of a trip to get it there to drop it off and pick it up when it's ready but to me it's worth it.

I didn't realize they switched to hard tanks in the front in 2013. Is that on the R20 only or did they do it on the RZR also? I'm guessing the tanks are under the front seats where the U shaped bag used to be. I would have thought they could get a little more weight out of hard tanks up there.

Did you take any pics of the boats?

Good luck on the test drive! I think you'll really like the RZR.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-15-2012, 3:56 PM Reply   
Price difference between the 2 is just less than $50 a month or about $8000. Options are pretty close.

2013 R20. 2 bar tower, Fixed racks, filler cushion with cooler, stereo w 4 speakers, cover snap in carpet, depth finder, 900 lbs ballast, 303 engine

2013 RZR. Vector tower, swivel board racks, Tige touch, 900 lb ballast, 4 speaker stereo, cover, surf platform, compass, depth, more gel colors, Stainless rub rail, lexon windscreen door, etc. 303 engine. Plus everything the RZR upgrade includes, better vinyl, carpet, gel coat, tower lights, stainless appearance package and cup holders. Definately a sharper looking boat.
Old    TJ (Houstonshark)      Join Date: Jan 2011       09-15-2012, 4:34 PM Reply   
The 2 things that stand out on the RZR which may potentially hurt the resale value are the 303 engine and the Vector tower. I'm sure the 303 will do just fine in the boat but the overwhelming majority of other RZR's you'll see for sale will have the 343.

I actually love the look of the Vector tower but again, you won't see many with it as most have the Alpha Z. Actually, I don't think I've ever seen a RZR with the Vector tower. I've seen a RZ2 and a couple R20's. There are no swivel board rack options for the Vector are there?

Then again, if it's in your price range and you like it, I'd say go for it! Resale value is such a moving target and almost silly to be concerned with on wake boats that depreciate as quickly as they do. If you were wanting to sell it within a year, I would pay closer attention to the options list, but if not, get what works for you.

For that price difference, I think you'll be really happy with the RZR.

We need to see some pics!
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-15-2012, 4:51 PM Reply   
I'm sorry I was reading the standard sheet. The R20 has the vector(2 bars) and the RZR has the Alpha Z. I like both towers but the wife really likes the Alpha. All the R20's and RZRs sold up here have the 303's. Dealer doesn't order them with 343's.
Old    KEVIN (kko13)      Join Date: Jul 2006       09-15-2012, 8:23 PM Reply   
Unless you go way above and beyond in the ballast department the 303 is really more than enough. When driving them with stock ballast you cant even tell wich one has the bigger horse power. Although both towers look nice and work well the Alpha Z is the best tower on the water IMPO. If you go with the RZR and get the Alpha Z and it does not have racks....look into the Sampson swivel racks they are awesome! LOL I am so stoked for your ride tomorrow!! I happen to be going out on a 2013 RZR 2morow as well! Its going to great!! Have fun and enjoy your ride!! Let us know what you think/decide.
Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       09-16-2012, 5:50 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardman74 View Post
Price difference between the 2 is just less than $50 a month or about $8000. Options are pretty close.
Sounds like you are doing a 15 year loan. Plan on keeping this boat for the next 15 years?
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       09-16-2012, 6:10 AM Reply   
What time should I be at the lake Kevin?
Old    KEVIN (kko13)      Join Date: Jul 2006       09-16-2012, 6:24 AM Reply   
11:30 lake tarpon anderson ramp!! be there!!
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-16-2012, 6:34 AM Reply   
We are excited to see how it does on the water. The RZR does have the Alpha Z tower with the swivel racks. We would also add the bimini.

Nitrous...actually 7. I'm just going to put more money down if we go with the RZR because the extra $50 is about as high as I want my payment($325). I have a Paid off trade and cash to kind of work my payment around to where I want it and the wifey is OK with it. But Tige is offering 2.99% up to 10 so it's cheap money. I'm making more on the cash where I have it so it's a no brainer.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       09-16-2012, 11:22 AM Reply   
heres some shots. 66' 22mph taps at 3 180lb driver, 230lb passenger in both clips 1600lbs of stock ballast and a 500lb sack in the play pen. i am 6'1" reference
Attached Images
   
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       09-16-2012, 12:31 PM Reply   
To be honest that wake looks great for a 20ft boat with 2100 pounds of ballast.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       09-16-2012, 12:49 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
To be honest that wake looks great for a 20ft boat with 2100 pounds of ballast.
Thank you! yes its my second favorite wake only to the 2nd gen star with 5k lbs and ive ridden aton of MCs and tige hulls with all different weighting. its a great wake but the boats smaller size definitely limits your versatility; ie you need to go a bit slower shorter than other boats for a good wake. you have to keep in mind the beam is only 94" as well
Old    KEVIN (kko13)      Join Date: Jul 2006       09-16-2012, 4:12 PM Reply   
I got to get out on the 2013 RZR. It really does produce some nice wakes. The guys I was with are big into the wakesurfing and really seemed to love the wave. The wakeboard wake was so nice. We had stock1600#ballast 4 adults 2 children. Wake was clean @ 65ft line plus handle 22mph. TAPS 1-4. I prefered it at 1. Just made for a perfect ramp with plenty of kick off the top. The one thing I found that I didnt expect is the width of the wake. For a boat with a 94" beam the wake is every bit as wide as my 2003 22V with the 102" beam. I have been behind the Tige 20V with the 96" beam and it was narrow compared to my boat and I sort of expected the same from the RZR...but that was not the case. The PCM 343 was plenty with the stock prop. First time spending the day in the boat with the new floor material Tige offers (Poseidon) WOW that is the way to go for sure. Rain shortend our day but the few hours we were out were awesome. This 20fter is a wonderful boat!! I hope you had a great day as well Todd.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-16-2012, 7:29 PM Reply   
Sounds like you had a day like us Kevin. We had perfect conditions for the demo. Water is getting a little cold but it was bearable. Our demo was set up with the 303 engine and the basic ballast of 900 lb. We had 10 in the boat. Keep in mind I am coming from a ski boat with a little wake, but I thought the wake was big. It's not even in the same universe with my boat. At 65 feet at 21 wake was super clean on both side. Was surprised by the same thing as Kevin the wake is super wide. I had to really work to get across. Wake was nice and rampy with a distinct lip that really kicked. It literally was twice the wake I am used to and really screwed up my timing. But when I did hit it I was impressed for a 20 foot boat. Wasn't sensitive side to side either. Never had to move people or adjust ballast. The boat is rock solid thru double ups and even large surf wakes. I sat in multiple places with bare feet on the floor and didn't detect any flex. Boat or tower never made a sound. handles almost as good as my direct drive. Pulling me we had 9 in the boat, full tank, gear and ballast full and it got right up with the stock 303 and stock prop.

Surf wake was great to me. I have never surfed before though!!! But today I did and thought it was pretty cool. I was able to throw the rope and ride on my own. The owners kid rode and the wake was easily to his waist. I was surprised a 20 footer could do that well. I can really see liking to surf some. Lot less strain on my old body.

Dislikes:
Only complaint I have is I suck at riding!! Just kidding. One was that when my daughter rode I could not get the wake to clean up at 16-17 mph. We moved people, filled/ emptied tanks, messed with taps, etc. Boat seems to like weight in the front. I hope messing around more we can dial it in. But at 21 it was clean both sides and pretty far back. Don't like the only Tige accessories fit the tower. Wife said the exhaust is to quit!! She likes the dual exhaust muscle car sound.

Likes. Tige touch. Tower is SOLID. Like the racks and the built in lights. Vinyl is nice in the RZR. Rampier wake with a solid lip. New windshield is great(no corner frames). Tons of storage. Drives pretty similar to a DD. Felt bigger than a 20 to be even with 10 people in it.

All in all we were impressed by the Tige and more importantly by the dealer. We are working with the owner and thats who took us out. He brought his family with and basically said we had the whole day. Very knowledgeable. Didn't feel rushed and let us see everything. Even brought a surf board and taught me to surf. Was nice to have his son there who was a better rider and surfer to really see what the boat could do. Really just felt like we were out with friends. Unfortunately we had a later engagement and could only spend about 2 hours on the boat. They were happy to drop us off at the dock and keep riding!! Just great people.

I just don't have much negative to say about it. But any new boat is a huge move up for us. I read and research a lot and knew about what so expect from the RZR. The boat far exceeded my expectations. We really feel like it's a great fit for our family. This will more than likely be the boat we have next year.
Old    KEVIN (kko13)      Join Date: Jul 2006       09-16-2012, 8:10 PM Reply   
Glad you enjoyed it. Sounds like a great time was had by all. Your dealer sounds great..wich is always important.
A clean wake will be tuff at that slow of a speed esp. with 10 people in the boat. You might have a chance with 4 or less. I bet your going to have to bump her to 19. But she will grow into it. I know my daughter did. I started her out @15mph and bumped her up .2 mph at a time. Until in just a few short months she was doing 20mph and never really noticed it.
"Don't like the only Tige accessories fit the tower"..What are you looking to add? Sampson makes racks and multiple companys make speakers that fit it.
Well I am glad you liked it and I hope it works out for your family.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-16-2012, 8:44 PM Reply   
The boat has the swivel racks which were nice. What I was referring to is with the Alpha tower clamp on speakers won't work. So it has the 4 molded in speaker mounting points. I was under the assumption you had to by the factory wetsounds cans so they bolt up to the tower. All we would be looking to add is speakers since it has swivel combo racks and the built in lights. But $1200 a set without an amp is spendy.

I was thinking the same thing with the speed. I tried bringing her up a little while we were out and it helped. I was pretty sure we could mess with it and get it dialed in for the kids. Sure wasn't going to back us away from it.
Old    Skippabcool (skippabcool)      Join Date: Mar 2011       09-16-2012, 9:29 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardman74 View Post
Sounds like you had a day like us Kevin. We had perfect conditions for the demo. Water is getting a little cold but it was bearable. Our demo was set up with the 303 engine and the basic ballast of 900 lb. We had 10 in the boat. Keep in mind I am coming from a ski boat with a little wake, but I thought the wake was big. It's not even in the same universe with my boat. At 65 feet at 21 wake was super clean on both side. Was surprised by the same thing as Kevin the wake is super wide. I had to really work to get across. Wake was nice and rampy with a distinct lip that really kicked. It literally was twice the wake I am used to and really screwed up my timing. But when I did hit it I was impressed for a 20 foot boat. Wasn't sensitive side to side either. Never had to move people or adjust ballast. The boat is rock solid thru double ups and even large surf wakes. I sat in multiple places with bare feet on the floor and didn't detect any flex. Boat or tower never made a sound. handles almost as good as my direct drive. Pulling me we had 9 in the boat, full tank, gear and ballast full and it got right up with the stock 303 and stock prop.

Surf wake was great to me. I have never surfed before though!!! But today I did and thought it was pretty cool. I was able to throw the rope and ride on my own. The owners kid rode and the wake was easily to his waist. I was surprised a 20 footer could do that well. I can really see liking to surf some. Lot less strain on my old body.

Dislikes:
Only complaint I have is I suck at riding!! Just kidding. One was that when my daughter rode I could not get the wake to clean up at 16-17 mph. We moved people, filled/ emptied tanks, messed with taps, etc. Boat seems to like weight in the front. I hope messing around more we can dial it in. But at 21 it was clean both sides and pretty far back. Don't like the only Tige accessories fit the tower. Wife said the exhaust is to quit!! She likes the dual exhaust muscle car sound.

Likes. Tige touch. Tower is SOLID. Like the racks and the built in lights. Vinyl is nice in the RZR. Rampier wake with a solid lip. New windshield is great(no corner frames). Tons of storage. Drives pretty similar to a DD. Felt bigger than a 20 to be even with 10 people in it.

All in all we were impressed by the Tige and more importantly by the dealer. We are working with the owner and thats who took us out. He brought his family with and basically said we had the whole day. Very knowledgeable. Didn't feel rushed and let us see everything. Even brought a surf board and taught me to surf. Was nice to have his son there who was a better rider and surfer to really see what the boat could do. Really just felt like we were out with friends. Unfortunately we had a later engagement and could only spend about 2 hours on the boat. They were happy to drop us off at the dock and keep riding!! Just great people.

I just don't have much negative to say about it. But any new boat is a huge move up for us. I read and research a lot and knew about what so expect from the RZR. The boat far exceeded my expectations. We really feel like it's a great fit for our family. This will more than likely be the boat we have next year.
Glad you had a great time. That is a great write up.

I have found on mine, it is not the same boat, that if I slow down for the kids I need to shorten the rope up a little and typically I don't want to go below 17 - 18. I have bumped it up and they haven't noticed, if they do I get a thumbs down.

Once you get the surf bug that will be what you want to do. It is a blast. We have more people surfing now then boarding.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       09-17-2012, 6:56 AM Reply   
That is a huge wake up there!

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