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Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-11-2012, 6:32 PM Reply   
Not sure if Tige meant to do this but someone discovered that the 2013 Z1 has been redesigned with a 102" beam and is now a mini Z3!
Here's the link to the brochure: http://www.tige.com/brochure/TB-2013-Catalog.pdf
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-11-2012, 6:33 PM Reply   
Couple of pics from the brochure.
Attached Images
  
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       09-11-2012, 6:54 PM Reply   
Now if I could just get one for 40k.
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       09-11-2012, 7:49 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tampawake View Post
Now if I could just get one for 40k.
Haha, you can't even get a decently equipped R20 for that.
Old    Jon (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       09-11-2012, 8:09 PM Reply   
Swim step is interesting.
Old    Skippabcool (skippabcool)      Join Date: Mar 2011       09-11-2012, 9:45 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jon4pres View Post
Swim step is interesting.
I didn't notice that till you mentioned that but it is, kinda odd. I am guessing they did it that way for a good reason though.
Old    Skippabcool (skippabcool)      Join Date: Mar 2011       09-11-2012, 10:18 PM Reply   
I went back and looked again and the the transom storage areas / activity center look to be part of the swim platform the way the picture was taken.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-12-2012, 5:07 AM Reply   
They have the sea deck material on both the transom activity center and the swim deck. Also on the middle walk thru .
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-12-2012, 5:10 AM Reply   
This should be a more popular boat in the TIGÉ line now. It's wider and seats 14 now so it will compete better in the market segment it's in.
Old    Diggs (pdxWAKE) (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       09-12-2012, 8:47 AM Reply   
I think I like that transom idea. Need to see it in person though
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       09-12-2012, 9:00 AM Reply   
The transom storage is awesome!!! I keep all my ropes in there as well as screwdriver etc. that way when I hop off the back if i need to tighten the bolts the driver is right there, rope never gets buried, have a place to put my wallet shirt etc if I didn't already put it in the glove box
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       09-12-2012, 10:01 AM Reply   
Tige being very smart. I think so far out smarting the other bigs other than MC with the X10. Like to see how the new X10 and Z1 match up. Thats a good market for the family riders not the XStar,G etc riders.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       09-12-2012, 10:15 AM Reply   
^did you even read the thread? That's not the swim deck it's the walk thru and transom storage covered in the same sea deck material to prevent slippage.
That's NOT the swim platform it's part of the rear of the boat


.... And he pulled the post

Last edited by simplej; 09-12-2012 at 10:19 AM.
Old    Erik Jernberg (juniorhawk)      Join Date: Jul 2004       09-12-2012, 10:19 AM Reply   
My mistake.
Very strange optical illusion. Even in the catalog it makes that distinction paper thin (sun deck vs platform). I have pretty trained eyes too.
Good idea or bad, it looks very strange from above (or strange without further investigation/wakeworld guidance).
The non-forked Tige's look decent these days.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       09-12-2012, 10:21 AM Reply   
If you check the brochure it all makes sense. And you' can see its actually rather clever aside from the act that you lose about a foot of sun pad
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       09-12-2012, 10:40 AM Reply   
I love that boat..
Old    Erik Jernberg (juniorhawk)      Join Date: Jul 2004       09-12-2012, 10:55 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
If you check the brochure it all makes sense. And you' can see its actually rather clever aside from the act that you lose about a foot of sun pad
Where in the brochure are you seeing that it clearly demystifies what a person might think if they only had the above shot to work from for that boat? I'm not seeing it. Even after this conversation I can't figure out what I am looking at on that boat.
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-12-2012, 11:00 AM Reply   
See if this helps, you can see the transom storage and the step in. This is identical to the Z3.
Attached Images
 
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       09-12-2012, 11:13 AM Reply   
if the price tag hasnt bumped up too much from the old z1 then this boat would be a hell of a value(relative to 170k MC's) wake machine im guessing msrp will be in the 60 range though, not 55 like the old z1

Last edited by simplej; 09-12-2012 at 11:16 AM.
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       09-12-2012, 12:24 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
if the price tag hasnt bumped up too much from the old z1 then this boat would be a hell of a value(relative to 170k MC's) wake machine im guessing msrp will be in the 60 range though, not 55 like the old z1
I often wonder where people get their pricing info. MSRP on a bare bones 2011 Z1 was over 70k.

You might be able to get a new Z1 in the 60s, but I doubt it. It definitely will not be equipped like the boat pictured in the brochure.

For reference on a 2012:

http://www.skipperbuds.com/Page.aspx...t-Boat-Z1.aspx

Last edited by MattieK27; 09-12-2012 at 12:28 PM.
Old    Tom (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       09-12-2012, 12:57 PM Reply   
That's a big heavy boat for 21 feet. And 80k? I think that's quite high.
Old    Dave (bcrider)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-12-2012, 1:05 PM Reply   
I like that blue/green/white color combo on the RZR on page 6 & 30
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       09-12-2012, 1:12 PM Reply   
no no no the base MSRP on a z1 was 55,333 for 2012, if you dig all the base MSRPS are online
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       09-12-2012, 1:13 PM Reply   
the proof is in the pudding kids, tiges arent as high as theyre advertised in the mid west
http://www.seedealercost.com/product...gorySlug/boats
Old    Erik Jernberg (juniorhawk)      Join Date: Jul 2004       09-12-2012, 1:17 PM Reply   
Being perfectly honest, no I do not think that clears it up at all for that boat but I'll take your word for it. To me, it's a weird photo and potentially just bad information design in the brochure, rather than an actual bad design. In the shot from above (second image in the thread) the platform's edges are flanked on either side by background color that looks like it would be where water would be. So either that boat is super wide or the rear cutouts extend higher than the running surface of the boat (or both). It's hard to describe and I don't feel like jumping in photoshop mode over this thread. I will believe you that there is an actual swim platform on the boat, and one that isn't flanked by a board-knocking or knee-slamming outcropping on either side. It looks that way from above in the photo on that. Let's agree to just disagree on this. I will defer to the expertise in here - the photos tell another story.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       09-12-2012, 1:20 PM Reply   
this a z3 but its the same transom, if this doesnt clear it up i dont know what will...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTvLJbhiZO0
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       09-12-2012, 1:30 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
the proof is in the pudding kids, tiges arent as high as theyre advertised in the mid west
http://www.seedealercost.com/product...gorySlug/boats
Proof is in what? That is the base price for a boat with zero options. They don't even manufacture boats to that bare-bones level.

Yes, midwest dealers do not offer the deep discounts that other areas of the country do, but MSRP is MSRP. That doesn't change, it comes directly from Tige.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       09-12-2012, 1:32 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattieK27 View Post
Proof is in what? That is the base price for a boat with zero options. They don't even manufacture boats to that bare-bones level.

Yes, midwest dealers do not offer the deep discounts that other areas of the country do, but MSRP is MSRP. That doesn't change, it comes directly from Tige.
you can see the prices for every option by clicking on the boat model as the MSRP listed from tige
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       09-12-2012, 1:37 PM Reply   
here ya go, this thing has almost everything but the 409 and extra set of rev 10s its a brand new z3 msrp at 86
http://www.performanceloz.com/boat_d...asp?boat_id=65

a z1 for 80 is obscene
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       09-12-2012, 1:39 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
here ya go, this thing has almost everything but the 409 and extra set of rev 10s its a brand new z3 msrp at 86
http://www.performanceloz.com/boat_d...asp?boat_id=65

a z1 for 80 is obscene
I don't see MSRP anywhere on that page...
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       09-12-2012, 1:41 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattieK27 View Post
I don't see MSRP anywhere on that page...
oh i apologize "price"
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       09-12-2012, 1:44 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
oh i apologize "price"
Price listed on a web site, and MSRP (or manufacturers suggested retail price) are not necessarily the same thing.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       09-12-2012, 1:48 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattieK27 View Post
Price listed on a web site, and MSRP (or manufacturers suggested retail price) are not necessarily the same thing.
fair enough, and if a dealer is advertising the "MSRP" for a 100% fully loaded boat, with the 409, most wet sounds you can get and pro ballast with custom colored everything then you may touch 82 grand...

BUT theyre listing that 82 grand price tag with the 303 etc... which outrageous.
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       09-12-2012, 1:56 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
fair enough, and if a dealer is advertising the "MSRP" for a 100% fully loaded boat, with the 409, most wet sounds you can get and pro ballast with custom colored everything then you may touch 82 grand...

BUT theyre listing that 82 grand price tag with the 303 etc... which outrageous.
I wonder if Tige would be able to clarify this. To be honest, Skipper Buds handling that line in my area was a red flag to stay away; if they are incorrectly advertising MSRPs it would just back that thought.

Also important to note it has taken the entire summer to move the stock they had on display at the Chicago boat show; that show was in January...
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-12-2012, 2:09 PM Reply   
Tige has come a long way, but they are still a hard sell here in Minnesota and many other parts of the country. They have a bad rap from the boats they built in the late 90's and early 2000's. For good reason. Those were not a boat I would own and I have a off brand inboard and am far from a boat snob. WE looked at Tige earlier and they have come a long way and I would own a newer one. But the problem we saw was price. A bare bones R20(stereo and a cover) listed at like 62K and the dealer acted like he was giving me the family deal at 50K. We thought it was over priced for what it was. No options and was just super plain.

I think alot of Tige dealers are having problems moving them, but they aren't the only brand. New Moomba dealer up here has a bunch of 2012's and wants list for everyone. Good luck with that. Plus they have a bunch of options no one wants.
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       09-12-2012, 2:19 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardman74 View Post
Tige has come a long way, but they are still a hard sell here in Minnesota and many other parts of the country. They have a bad rap from the boats they built in the late 90's and early 2000's. For good reason. Those were not a boat I would own and I have a off brand inboard and am far from a boat snob. WE looked at Tige earlier and they have come a long way and I would own a newer one. But the problem we saw was price. A bare bones R20(stereo and a cover) listed at like 62K and the dealer acted like he was giving me the family deal at 50K. We thought it was over priced for what it was. No options and was just super plain.

I think alot of Tige dealers are having problems moving them, but they aren't the only brand. New Moomba dealer up here has a bunch of 2012's and wants list for everyone. Good luck with that. Plus they have a bunch of options no one wants.
I did the same thing with a fully loaded R20 direct from Tige. It was a great deal around the same price you were given (again fully loaded), but local dealer support made me think twice.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       09-12-2012, 2:35 PM Reply   
my dealer has sold out 2 years in a row, and another new tige dealer here in new england also sold out. they arent touching the number malibu puts out up here but theyre moving. a lot of this has to do with region

and while a lot of the prices you guys bring up seem to be inflated
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       09-12-2012, 2:42 PM Reply   
I am here with Matt. I have the Msrp price list sheets and I can tell you Tige. Base Msrp on their site is just that. It's a complete fallacy. Add in a trailer, add in the ext cat fee, add in a basic stereo, add in ballast, add in ski pylon, add in perfect pass , add in board racks, add in cover, add in freight and prep And those are just the essentials to get u riding. Those options on 12 Z1 had an Msrp just a touch over 70k And that was with the 303.

Matt's link is for a pretty loaded up 12 z1. That was has the upgraded motor and tower packages. It has heater and a ton of other stuff including a graphics option alpha Z and upgraded stereo and pro ballast, And that was 80k plus. But the one with the 303 and the basics above was over 70


However I too would have signed and sealed a deal in oct of last year but they wouldn't budge on their prices and I felt they were way high on their Msrp looking around at othe dealerships. They were 5-10 k higher depending on model, Their prices on their r20's were absurd over 60k for basically bare bones

Last edited by xstarrider; 09-12-2012 at 2:50 PM.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       09-12-2012, 3:03 PM Reply   
My dealer had a 12 z1, power of tower rev 8, pro ballast, TIGE touch, board racks and custom color scheme, 343 for 68k as the listed MSRP.... Wish that ad was still on his site
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       09-12-2012, 3:34 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
I am here with Matt. I have the Msrp price list sheets and I can tell you Tige. Base Msrp on their site is just that. It's a complete fallacy. Add in a trailer, add in the ext cat fee, add in a basic stereo, add in ballast, add in ski pylon, add in perfect pass , add in board racks, add in cover, add in freight and prep And those are just the essentials to get u riding. Those options on 12 Z1 had an Msrp just a touch over 70k And that was with the 303.

Matt's link is for a pretty loaded up 12 z1. That was has the upgraded motor and tower packages. It has heater and a ton of other stuff including a graphics option alpha Z and upgraded stereo and pro ballast, And that was 80k plus. But the one with the 303 and the basics above was over 70


However I too would have signed and sealed a deal in oct of last year but they wouldn't budge on their prices and I felt they were way high on their Msrp looking around at othe dealerships. They were 5-10 k higher depending on model, Their prices on their r20's were absurd over 60k for basically bare bones
I think the issue might be sales price and MSRP. We are talking MSRP, which can be different from sales prices on web sites.

That new Z1 has your name on it! Now we just have to find a dealer for you to buy it from.
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       09-12-2012, 3:44 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
My dealer had a 12 z1, power of tower rev 8, pro ballast, TIGE touch, board racks and custom color scheme, 343 for 68k as the listed MSRP.... Wish that ad was still on his site
I am just discussing, so please don't assume I am challenging you or arguing.

I went ahead and used that site that you sent the link for. With the options you listed (Pro ballast, least expensive Evo tower with non swivel board racks, 343 with cats since they are mandatory, Rev 8s, and just a custom color on the hull) the total MSRP came to 71,285. I am unsure if that even includes Tige Touch (didn't see a check box) or a trailer.

I do not know how to account for the difference, perhaps the dealer was posting it's sale price as MSRP?

(oops, forgot to add the EIDB which is required for the ballast and tower of power, now its over 72k)
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-12-2012, 4:06 PM Reply   
See to me thats an issue when the dealer sets the price. To me there should be a MSRP and thats that. Obviously it adds for options. But it should cost the same in Minnesota as Florida. MSRP wise. It should be up to the dealer where they sell based on the profit the want to make. The only slight change should be freight based on how far the dealer is from the factory.

But ultimately it comes down to what the dealer is willing to sell for. IMO they are all over priced.

Also I don't like that to drop the price on the R20 they reduced the warranty significantly. This is a fact that isn't advertised openly and you have to talk to the dealer to find out. They basically only pay parts on R20's and no labor cost. So you either need to fix it yourself or the warranty COSTS you money. Thats not a warranty to me.
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       09-12-2012, 4:13 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardman74 View Post
IMO they are all over priced.
+1

Another thing to think about when considering the R20, it does not have the vinyl ester barrier coat; that is a big deal to anyone that has had the pleasure of dealing with blisters on their hulls.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-12-2012, 4:30 PM Reply   
Good point I had forgot that and as such it doesn't have the lifetime hull warranty. Seemed like kind of a dirty underhanded way to lower the price. Axis or Moomba never did anything like that to be a more budget minded boat. Even their dealer said they didn't feel like it was a good deal for the buyer. They offered a reduced shop rate during the warranty period, but they were about 600 miles away so I was cash and carry.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       09-12-2012, 4:57 PM Reply   
I am discussing as well as I find the price differences astounding.... TIGE touch is standard on the z1 for 12.

I thought the r20 had the lifetime hull warranty but lacks a blister warranty?? And is only 1 year bow to stern, so yes that's where they drop the price down from. I didn't think the axis or Moomba warranties, or even the MC warranty was anything special but I could be mistaken.

The fact of the matter is when you go in to purchase a boat of any brand you need to be informed. You don't
Want to walk into a dealership and pay 73k for a boat that thy listed at 83k when it should've been listed at 73k to begin and you should be 63 out the door... But them again NorCal mastercraft is selling x25s for like 115 grand... So whats going on?

Even then when compare this boat to its 21.5 ft counterparts, i would think you should be out the door between 21v and vlx money. And way short of x25 or 210 money... Which makes me vomit a little because they're getting outta hand.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-12-2012, 5:34 PM Reply   
According to the dealer I talked to and almost purchased from the R20 DOES NOT have lifetime hull warranty because it doesn't have the blister coat. Also I do not consider a boat to have a bow to stern warranty when it DOES NOT include the labor to work on the boat. Look at your last repair bill, the labor is 9 times out of 10 the larger number.

I just can't justify new money anyway. Can I afford it...sure easily. Can I justify it in my mind....nope. Rather buy used.

Like any dealer worth their salt will tell you boats are still hand built one at a time, there is going to be minor issues. On any boat from any brand. To me the tell is how do they stand behind their product. I have an issue when a company saves money by cutting out the warranty. Just seems crappy to me especially since most boats are going to have warranty issues. Tige is the only company I know that has done this.
Old    TJ (Houstonshark)      Join Date: Jan 2011       09-12-2012, 5:40 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardman74 View Post
Good point I had forgot that and as such it doesn't have the lifetime hull warranty. Seemed like kind of a dirty underhanded way to lower the price. Axis or Moomba never did anything like that to be a more budget minded boat. Even their dealer said they didn't feel like it was a good deal for the buyer. They offered a reduced shop rate during the warranty period, but they were about 600 miles away so I was cash and carry.
That's the problem with the R20. Except for the tower and the Tige Touch and a handful of other minimal options, it is the same as the RZR. I'm sure it takes just as long to build the R20 as it does the RZR and the material costs are not dramatic; it's mostly design differences with the vinyl and interior

Instead of building a truly entry level boat, they took a RZR and tried to find ways of making it cheaper. The warranty was one of the things they did to try and lower the price as was the vinyl and other interior bling.

When we started looking at boats a couple years ago, I thought we would be buying a R20 based on the price I wanted to be at (~$50k). The boat was just too cheap looking and the fact that it was purposely cheap looking just killed me for a boat that was $50k.

I actually liked the look of the Axis a lot more and thought it would have been a great boat but the interior was just too shallow and my wife was immediately turned off by that.

We ended up buying the RZR and are completely happy that we did but this new Z1 really has me thinking...even though it doesn't fit in my garage!

Has the Z1 ever really been a contender to the 210, VLX or X25 (or any other 21' boat) in terms of wake quality and size or was it really just a price point 21' boat?

I think the new Z1 may change that some if it is anything like the Z3. The Z3 has a great surf wake and the wakeboard wake was pretty impressive at the Tige MyWake competition with just the Pro Ballast.
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-12-2012, 6:03 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Houstonshark View Post
Has the Z1 ever really been a contender to the 210, VLX or X25 (or any other 21' boat) in terms of wake quality and size or was it really just a price point 21' boat?

I think the new Z1 may change that some if it is anything like the Z3. The Z3 has a great surf wake and the wakeboard wake was pretty impressive at the Tige MyWake competition with just the Pro Ballast.
I think it will be a direct competitor to the VLX now that it has a 102" beam and a new hull. It used to be the entry level Tige.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-12-2012, 8:37 PM Reply   
Wow it looks like Tigé is well on their way to becoming the Buzz brand for 2013 also. As you all probably know they won Buzz brand of the year at the wake awards.That speaks volumes considering the other buzz in the industry this year.
Old    Ron (Nordicron)      Join Date: Aug 2011       09-13-2012, 7:31 AM Reply   
I don't know. I stopped and looked at both a Rzr, Z1 and RZ2 a couple weeks ago and wasn't really all that impressed with them. Tige better be careful pushing the prices up on these boats because to me they just don't come close in the quality feel of say a Mastercraft or Nautique. They are a long way from top tier still. Sitting in and moving around opening hatches and such the RZR felt cheap cheap cheap. Yeah they have PCM's but other than that??? I know it's spose to be cheap but come on. For the price they wanted for it I'd take a Moomba all day long and twice on sunday!
Old    TJ (Houstonshark)      Join Date: Jan 2011       09-13-2012, 9:27 AM Reply   
There's things on my RZR that I'd change and a lot that I did change while the boat was being built and since. I think the current Tige boats, on the interior (and a lot of the gel and graphics schemes that dealers build) are just a little too complicated, flashy or blingy.

Part of me thinks that is ok because it appeals to some but I also think the interior could be toned down a bit and classed up a little more. Less is more and I think at times (with the exception of the new G and XSTAR) Malibu, CC, MC and certainly Supra more than any get this.

Anyway, I think the fit and finish of the Tige boats is really not that far off. If you were to test drive and compare a Tige boat with the boats in their class, I think you would be surprised at how well they perform.

We demo'd a MC X2 and RZR back to back and while I liked some of the things about the X2's interior, the boat was a little plain on the outside, I didn't like the tower, it didn't handle as well and there was zero comparison in the surf wake, while the wakeboard wake was maybe a tie. The RZR had a slightly bigger wake but it was hard to judge because the water was rough.

As for pricing, yes, the boats are expensive, especially if the dealer is spouting MSRP. I truly wish a manufacturer in this industry would do a unilateral price on their boats. The difference between the MSRP and the actual selling price on boats is silly. It turns a lot of people off when they first start shopping and makes the process way too long.

At the very least, I think it would be nice if a manufacturer would at least make the MSRP ~10% higher than the dealer's cost of the boat. The dealer could then be paid additional money on some hold backs or other promotional incentives.

A 30% + markup is just stupid IMO and not because I think the dealers are making too much money. I think it's stupid because it's not realistic. I have no doubts that people walk into boat dealerships and pay MSRP from time to time but I think that is a very small percentage.

If dealers only made about 10% on the front end, the pricing would be more stable, easier to find and I even think the used boat market would benefit. Dealers could benefit also because if they were not allowed to sell the boat below their cost (for a current model year) they are guaranteed to make money on the hold back.

Sorry, I know I rambled on but boat pricing is just frustrating to me, even though I got a smokin deal on my boat.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-13-2012, 11:52 AM Reply   
I agree with Ron. The R20 is supposed to compete with the Moomba and it just doesn't. First thing the wife said was...feels cheap. The price does not reflect the product. Plus in a flashy wakeboat segment it screams plain.

The boat didn't even have a place to hook a rope outside the tower. No pylon, not even a ski tow ring on the back. These are things my 1997 Pro Am Skier (MSRP $19,995) has. Thats a boat Fineline sold and advertised as cheap!! The R20 just screams cheap. Seems like it should sell for 30K not the 62K MSRP the dealer claimed. The weren't selling for that, but offering it at 50K claiming the list was 62K. And you guessed it 2 month later the are still proud to have it on their lot!!!

Don't get me wrong I would own a Tige, but not for those prices. They are pricing like the bog boys and while they are getting better, their boats are not there with MC, CC, or Malibu. They are pricing themselves out of the market.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       09-13-2012, 1:51 PM Reply   
i didnt think the r20 was "cheap" i liked the build quality of it better than the axis, where wires were hanging out places and screws were popping in the floor etc...

BUT it is such a vanilla boat compared to the rest of the line and the other boats in the segment, it feels like theres no passion or pride it in compared to the rest of the line and the segment.
Old    Erik Jernberg (juniorhawk)      Join Date: Jul 2004       09-13-2012, 2:40 PM Reply   
Quote:
They are pricing themselves out of the market.
I feel like they have been slowly trying to price themselves IN to the market but they can't get there on price similarity (with MC, CC, Malibu) alone. Someone else in another controversial Tige thread said they can't believe they are even still around and relevant, after those late 90's and early 2000's boats. I agree with that and I think they've turned the corner and am happy for them. That being said, an $80,000 Tige is astonishing to me. They're not there yet. My opinion only.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       09-13-2012, 3:07 PM Reply   
EVERY boat thread is controversial

every tige thread is extra controversial

i think its because those boats have left a bad taste in alot of peoples mouths. mine included, but now we own one and i couldnt be happier especially considering what we paid. my buddy had an 07, it was an OKAY boat but felt simple and cheap compared my neighbors 07 star, not the case witht he current boats, though you can tell where the extra 20k goes when you buy an MC (billet)
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-13-2012, 5:02 PM Reply   
I'm not saying the build quality is or isn't there on the new Tige. We didn't demo it so its hard to say without having it in the water.

I am saying it looks and feels cheap. Very plain, no accents, vinyl looks like they used cheap white left overs..etc etc. Like I said there isn't even anywhere to hook up a rope to it. Compared to the rest of the line it looks like the price point boat. My wife who doesn't know boats, brands or prices said it as soon as we walked up to it. Plain and it looks and feels cheap. She hasn't said that about anything else, not a Moomba, Axis, even our old Pro Am.

With that said the rest of the line looks and feels completely different. Everything is different. Like someone above said doesn't feel like they built a budget/ price point boat. Feels like the stripped out/ cheaped down a boat. Right down to cheaper hull and lot less warranty. To me 62K list isn't a stripped out boat...but to Tige it is.

Base on a Moomba 20V is around 45K and thats it's competition with a full warranty and same build and materials as the rest of the Moomba line.
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-13-2012, 5:31 PM Reply   
Can we get back to the new Z1 instead of pricing for an R20? Go start a thread on R20 pricing and quality if you're that hung up on it....not sure why everyone has to be so negative about every new boat thread around here.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-13-2012, 6:39 PM Reply   
Sorry man wasn't trying to jack your thread. I don't see alot of negative on here. I, as well as some others have commented on how far Tige has come. They are building a solid boat. Just commenting that the prices seem to be a bit high and that is turning some off to them. But they aren't the only company doing that. 6 digits for a towboats is insane to me.

The new Z1 looks nice. Must have a ton of space inside. Looks like a solid boat. Hopefully the surf wake will be as good as the other newer Tige's.
Old    TJ (Houstonshark)      Join Date: Jan 2011       09-13-2012, 6:59 PM Reply   
This picture may be a little deceiving as this is a 2012 Z1 with 2013 graphics. I'm not sure where the Photoshopping happened but it seems like it was either with this boat (which has the old interior and transom layout) or with the brochure boat that is maybe a Z3 with Z1 graphics on it.

Either way, I think this boat looks great!

Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-13-2012, 7:02 PM Reply   
That boat is super sharp. Love the colors!!
Old    Skippabcool (skippabcool)      Join Date: Mar 2011       09-13-2012, 7:47 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardman74 View Post
Hopefully the surf wake will be as good as the other newer Tige's.
I have not had the chance to be behind a Z1 but know some that have them and from what I have heard, seen pics, it is one of the best out the door surf wakes in the Tige line. So I can only imagine that this new design will be even better.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-13-2012, 7:58 PM Reply   
What's not to like about the Z1? Looks sharp to me.I wonder how many of the Naysayers have even tested a Tigé?If a Tige's interior is plain,what is a Moomba's interior?
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       09-13-2012, 8:22 PM Reply   
robert. you don't have to "test" a Tige to see the interior and form an opinion on it. Nothing neg was said about Tige interiors or that they are plain.... the plane interior comments were directly solely at the "price point" entry level stripped boat of the R20, and that it was priced too high. As far as moombas interior, it is simple or plain, but the price is a lot lower than the comparable tige's.

As for the Z1, I think that boat looks sharp. Hopefully the wake is as good as the boat looks.

Also on the late 90's and early 2000 tiges, what models are the "problem ones" or is it all models?I had a 1998 pre2200v that put out a great wake and I had 4 flawless years on it.
Old    Erik Jernberg (juniorhawk)      Join Date: Jul 2004       09-14-2012, 6:00 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_defacto View Post
Also on the late 90's and early 2000 tiges, what models are the "problem ones" or is it all models?I had a 1998 pre2200v that put out a great wake and I had 4 flawless years on it.
The 21V Riders Edition. Something to really avoid.

Like this thing:


Last edited by juniorhawk; 09-14-2012 at 6:06 AM.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-14-2012, 6:02 AM Reply   
Not sure the exact poor models people speak of. But the ones I have seen were in the 99-2002 range. Buddy had a 21V riders and it wasn't a good boat. Poor tower, rattled, stuff fell apart etc. Then we looked at a 2001(or 2002) 21i Riders with less than 250 hours. Gel shined like new but the rest of the boat was falling apart. Gauges, upholstery, tower loose, and alot other. From what I have seen I wouldn't own one of the older ones.

But that is My opinion. Nothing to do with the new ones. They are super nice and I really like them. The wife really liked them to with the exception of the R20. But they are still in my mind an up and comer. So considering that I think they are over priced. For they right price I would own one. We are actually going to look at them again today at a new local dealer.
Old    Erik Jernberg (juniorhawk)      Join Date: Jul 2004       09-14-2012, 6:14 AM Reply   
Right - that all sounds correct ^^^^^
I was in and around 2 x 2000 Riders Editions some years ago and both of those (identical) boats were quite literally falling apart only months after being purchased.
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       09-14-2012, 12:40 PM Reply   
Damn thats a sweet boat!!! Cant wait to see wake and surf wakes!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Houstonshark View Post
This picture may be a little deceiving as this is a 2012 Z1 with 2013 graphics. I'm not sure where the Photoshopping happened but it seems like it was either with this boat (which has the old interior and transom layout) or with the brochure boat that is maybe a Z3 with Z1 graphics on it.

Either way, I think this boat looks great!

Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-14-2012, 4:01 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tampawake View Post
Damn thats a sweet boat!!! Cant wait to see wake and surf wakes!!
That pic of the red one is of the prior design. Not sure when the new model comes out, hopefully this fall or winter.
Old    Bryce (brycejb328)      Join Date: Aug 2009       09-14-2012, 5:04 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardman74 View Post
Tige has come a long way, but they are still a hard sell here in Minnesota and many other parts of the country. They have a bad rap from the boats they built in the late 90's and early 2000's. For good reason. Those were not a boat I would own and I have a off brand inboard and am far from a boat snob. WE looked at Tige earlier and they have come a long way and I would own a newer one. But the problem we saw was price. A bare bones R20(stereo and a cover) listed at like 62K and the dealer acted like he was giving me the family deal at 50K. We thought it was over priced for what it was. No options and was just super plain.

I think alot of Tige dealers are having problems moving them, but they aren't the only brand. New Moomba dealer up here has a bunch of 2012's and wants list for everyone. Good luck with that. Plus they have a bunch of options no one wants.
(2) 2001 21v's in my crew. No complaints here. Will5150 on the WW here has owned one since new. For every whiner on the inter web, there is a load of people not whining and out enjoying their boats :-)

The new Tiges look sick, this Z1, dang!! the R20 doesnt compete in the small boat segment IMO, simply based on snooping around one at the boat show.
Old    Sean (slax303)      Join Date: Oct 2005       09-14-2012, 5:55 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyb View Post
That pic of the red one is of the prior design. Not sure when the new model comes out, hopefully this fall or winter.
You should start seeing them by November. We're hoping to have our first one by late November/ early December
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-15-2012, 10:28 AM Reply   
News Flash!!! Tige no longer makes a 2002 21v Riders Edition.This year they are making 2013 year model boats worldwide.They are very popular too. Warning: they cost more than they did in 2002 also.So go put your Big Boy pants on and go check one out,you may be surprised how much they have improved since 2002.
Old    9Drozd            09-15-2012, 6:11 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
News Flash!!! Tige no longer makes a 2002 21v Riders Edition.This year they are making 2013 year model boats worldwide.They are very popular too. Warning: they cost more than they did in 2002 also.So go put your Big Boy pants on and go check one out,you may be surprised how much they have improved since 2002.
Im pretty sure no person here has bashed the 2013 tiges. They were stating the years their boats had the most troubles. Even then, they aren't bad boats per se, but they had/have more issues than other manufactures. Trust me I have a 2001 2300v, every issue that has been said here, I have addressed and fixed better than OE.
Old    Erik Jernberg (juniorhawk)      Join Date: Jul 2004       09-17-2012, 6:55 AM Reply   
Yeah not sure who that news flash was for. Maybe me among some others. Buddy I think it happens with a lot of these Tige threads where excitement for their new stuff gets seriously tempered by very real memories of how bad they used to be. Used to be I said. And it's hard to even say what those late 90's early 2000's would be worth now, and I personally look at what boats' resale values look like 5 & 10 years out when looking at new boats for me or someone else. It affects how excited I can get about the new boats, to be honest, but I had a pretty bad firsthand experience with this brand in particular.
Old    Dave (davenk)      Join Date: Feb 2008       09-17-2012, 11:55 AM Reply   
I really don't know much about the "used to be" but we bought a brand new Z1 in 09' and love it everytime we go out, had a few minor problems in the begining but all is good, love it and wouldn't trade it for anything. I guess I am to young to know about the "used to be" problems - but my Z1 is awesome, we love it and have a great time on it surfing and wakeboarding everytime we go out (NO tubes, lol). I must say though, looking at the new redsign, I am not sure about the back seat moved forward a bit. I like the back seat to be flush the whole way across the back - make sense? That is one thing I do not like about the RZR/R20

Last edited by davenk; 09-17-2012 at 11:57 AM.
Old    KEVIN (kko13)      Join Date: Jul 2006       09-17-2012, 5:40 PM Reply   
Dave glad you enjoy your Z1. I get out in one every now and then with a friend that has one(09) and also enjoy it. When the first RZR showed up at our shop and I saw the seat sticking out I was like WTF was Tige thinking. That being said I got to spend Sunday on a 2013 RZR and I took a turn in every seat in the boat and can tell you it never was an issue. I was very suprised. I so thought it was really going to cause an issue with seating and it didnt.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-17-2012, 6:43 PM Reply   
Audi and Toyota both survived a public perceived quality issues era.Both are still thriving and resale values are equal to their competition.Tigé has had a few issues for some of their owners in the early years,but they also had owners of those same model years without issues. Just like Audi and Toyota Tigé is also doing just fine.
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       09-17-2012, 7:23 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
Audi and Toyota both survived a public perceived quality issues era.Both are still thriving and resale values are equal to their competition.Tigé has had a few issues for some of their owners in the early years,but they also had owners of those same model years without issues. Just like Audi and Toyota Tigé is also doing just fine.
As predictable as gravity...

Did you ever learn how to post hyperlinks? As Tige's biggest fanboy, it might come in handy on the forums.

Back on topic, the new Z1 looks really nice. It is unfortunate the local Tige dealer is unwilling to deal, because I know a few local people that would be interested in a mini Z3. I would be curious to see if the surf wake is as dialed in as the Z3; understandably the 2 feet will make a difference but the original Z1 was no slouch creating a surf wake.

Last edited by MattieK27; 09-17-2012 at 7:29 PM.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-17-2012, 7:31 PM Reply   
Kevin I didn't notice it either. To tell you the truth I had to look at pictures to see what you were talking about. I sat all over the boat and never thought about it. Wife really crawled around the boat and she didn't notice either. Really like the seats and the vinyl in the RZR, firm and really comfortable.

After the demo I am a believer in TIGE!! I had a buddy back in the day that had a 21V Riders and the two aren't in the same sentence. I rode that boat alot, watched it basically fall apart. Was not up to par with the others of that era. I think Tige knows that and has done what they needed to do to step it up. We have looked at every brand over the last 2-3 months new and used. After having the Tige on the water quality wise it is there with anything else we have seen. Wake is something we can argue all day. Because we all like it different just like our ladies. The wake on the RZR seemed really nice to me and was mild enough empty for my 7,10, and 11 year olds. Makes it a boat the wife and I are both happy about. First boat she asked if I had called the dealer back. Asked me as soon as I got home from school this morning.

The boat never made a sound. No flex. I really like the aggressive styling of the Tige RZ line. Alot of technology in there. The tower integrated into the boat structure and not just bolted on....Rock Solid!! The tige touch is super cool and works great. The taps like all the trim tabs works great. I won't say they are the best boat out there, thats everyones own opinion. But I think they are there to be a choice with the top boats!!
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       09-17-2012, 8:08 PM Reply   
I always wondered why you don't hear more about the Z1 on wakeworld. IT is a great looking boat. It really has beautiful and sexy lines. I think it actually looks better then that pic/drawing of the new Z1. Did the old Z1 not perform that well or something? There are still a couple things I think Tige needs to work on. They need to make a front ski locker or at least put a hard tank under the floor in the front. At least they started putting below floor rear tanks. They need to get rid of the cupholders on the floor and actually put them somewhere someone would want them. Like in the combing pad cutouts like everybody else. It isn't rocket science it is simple ergonomics. Why would someone want to reach down to the floor to grab a drink? There is a reason they make things like end tables and coffee tables. So your drink or anything else for that matter is somewhere where you can just grab instead of having to bend down to pick it up. Also, have they started actually putting their interior speakers in pods that actually look like they were meant to be there instead of just cutting a hole in the seat bases or drivers kick panel? It just seems so much of an afterthought or chinsy to me the way they do it. I don't really like their crazy graphics but then again those are just stickers so they can be removed. It does seem like they are doing some great things with interior size, space as well as wake performance these days. The vinyl looks really nice although just like mastercraft it is a little too busy with all the crazy panels and cross stitching.
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-17-2012, 8:54 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by polarbill View Post
They need to get rid of the cupholders on the floor and actually put them somewhere someone would want them. Like in the combing pad cutouts like everybody else. It isn't rocket science it is simple ergonomics. Why would someone want to reach down to the floor to grab a drink? .
They have cupholders in the cutouts and on the floor and have for a few years now.

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