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Old    JR Smith (wakintime)      Join Date: Jul 2011       08-29-2012, 7:57 PM Reply   
I am totally confused. Test driven both and ridden both wakes. It's a stand off. Prices are very close. I am not looking for bashing. Just unbiased opinions without owner glasses on. Thanks.
Old    Brandon Zubke (bzubke1)      Join Date: Feb 2010       08-29-2012, 8:06 PM Reply   
tough choice there, do you have pics of both?
Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-29-2012, 8:08 PM Reply   
SAN what? 210 or 230?
Awesome problem to have. Good luck with that
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       08-29-2012, 8:22 PM Reply   
From the way I understand it those boats have a different wake. The VLX more rampy and the 210 more vertical. With that said should be able to tell which you like more if you rode behind both. But I know it's tough to tell taking a quick demo set. I know my older body would have a tough time ridding the more verticle wake all the time. Also I have noticed while we have been looking the Malibu's seem more plush inside. More bling as the wifey calls it. Malibu has way more interior space too. You can't go wrong with either. But from what I have seen looking for 3 months now those are pretty different boats all the way around from the wake to the interior. I'm surprised you don't have a preference as they are quite different.

I would own either and go with the better deal.
Old    JR Smith (wakintime)      Join Date: Jul 2011       08-29-2012, 8:52 PM Reply   
It's a 210. Have had 2 VLX's before and the San 210 has been dream boat. Seriously 2 different wakes. Love them both. Trying to make right choice. Sure am confusing. I think all wakeboard boats on the market are mostly really good. I think all the boats are overpriced but right now the opportunity to get 1 of these boats are now. I will try to post pix. Any pro's and con's appreciated!
Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-29-2012, 8:57 PM Reply   
Get the dream boat. You've already had 2 vlx's. See for yourself what all the hype is about.
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            08-29-2012, 9:05 PM Reply   
210 if youve had the vlxs before. It would all come down to which wake you prefer and dash technology. Cant go wrong with either.
Old    JR Smith (wakintime)      Join Date: Jul 2011       08-29-2012, 10:20 PM Reply   
Name:  vp2791784_1_large.jpg
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Here are a couple of pix.
Malibu has the glittery red accents.
Attached Images
 
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       08-29-2012, 10:35 PM Reply   
What year were your VLX's? I ask because the boat was completely redesigned in 2009.

Honestly, I was faced with this same decision last Spring. My dealer (who I love) carries both Bu and CC. For me it was an easy choice because I have 4 kids... so I wanted the extra interior space, storage, and kid-friendly wake of the Malibu. From an adult perspective... we were coming from very abrupt wakes on our old boat, so the mellower Malibu wake was a welcome change. I also like the Bu tower much more.

However, after two VLX's I can appreciate you wanting to mix it up. That red 210 you just posted is the sickest one I've seen yet.

I'll post this only because it's fresh video from this morning (completely raw from iPhone)... it shows the VLX wake at 18mph. So clean and kid friendly. I don't know how the 210 behaves at the lower speeds, or even if you have kids. But I still can't get over what a good change this has been for my kids (our old boat didn't clean up until 21mph).

P.S. 6 year old was not properly positioned at first, which explains slight disturbance in port-side wake at the beginning. Listen closely and you can hear me moving into place, then the wake is perfect.

Last edited by ixfe; 08-29-2012 at 10:38 PM.
Old    JR Smith (wakintime)      Join Date: Jul 2011       08-29-2012, 10:43 PM Reply   
I had 2004 and 2008 vlx and yes the new one is different. Wake looks great on video. Thanks for the input.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       08-29-2012, 10:43 PM Reply   
One last comment about that video above... the 2012 Malibus have a feature called APU or Auto Pull Up. It means that you can save a particular pull up and re-use it again and again. So once I got my daughter's desired pull up right where she likes it, I saved it so now I can cue it up and hit the gas as hard as I want... she gets the same pull up ever time. Simple! It's a feature I don't see many people talking about, so there ya' go.

12 year old girls can be so picky!
Old    JR Smith (wakintime)      Join Date: Jul 2011       08-29-2012, 10:50 PM Reply   
DBC. I too am coming from your old boat to one of these. Not gonna say brand because that will get this thread all jacked up.
Old    Troy Deschamps (TroyD)      Join Date: Jan 2012       08-29-2012, 11:33 PM Reply   
I love my 210, just outgrew it.
With the G21 and X10 coming out I'd wait a spell...
Old    Markj (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       08-29-2012, 11:48 PM Reply   
Ya that's a heleva problem to have. Poor guy. I could think of ten reasons why each boat is better. If you're keeping it for the long haul, I would check engine reliability and go with whatever has a better record. Either way you'll have a nice boat.
Old    Bevan (stxr_racer)      Join Date: Jun 2006       08-30-2012, 12:31 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakintime View Post
Attachment 25034[/u]

Here are a couple of pix.
Malibu has the glittery red accents.
Research and test drive/ride both boats then buy the 210
Old    Ron (Nordicron)      Join Date: Aug 2011       08-30-2012, 4:39 AM Reply   
I don't get where everyone says there is so much more room? For one thing how much crap do people take out and need to store in their boat for a day on the water??? I have never felt I've needed more storage room on my 210. Also I was just at both the Bu dealer and Nauti dealer and to me the Bu did not feel plusher or more blingy as some say? Honestly the Nautique felt like well a Nautique! It felt like quality all around. The Bu felt nice but didn't feel Nautique nice if that makes sense?
Also don't overestimate the seating config in the Nauti! Still to this day no other boat other than maybe the new star can touch the seating options that u get in the Nauti! Flip up and reverse seating is freaking awesome!

I have 9 and 14 yr old daughters both of which learned on the 210 wake as have their friends. So long as its not loaded up, 17-18mph is entirely possible.
Old    Todd (ifinallygota21v)      Join Date: Oct 2006       08-30-2012, 5:06 AM Reply   
i was just in the same situation a month ago...i went with the vlx because of all of the extra interior space. lets face it, we are in our boats 90% of the time when they are in use. the flip up seats are a great idea in the sante but we had 13 people in the vlx last week and didnt feel cramped at all. the wakes are completely different, to each their own. the sante is a surf monster. here is some more food for thought:

The SANTE seats were shallower (closer to the floor) and the cabin just felt much more spacious in the VLX.
The VLX cabin is wider with a 100" beam vs a 98" beam in the SANTE.
The VLX also has roughly twice the storage space, 116 cubic feet vs only about 60 cubic feet in the SANTE.
The VLX has 1250lbs of factory ballast where the SANTE has only 900lbs. Of course you can add more to both but that just takes away from your storage space.
Both make an excellent wake, personal preference on that one.
The Nautiques I have been in feel a bit smoother in terms of engine vibrations, I think they have better a better engine mounting system.
I like that Nautique uses hinges/gas shocks on more of their seat bases than Malibu.
I like all the rear facing seats in the SANTE but I think the overall the VLX interior is more plush and comfortable.
Old    Ron (Nordicron)      Join Date: Aug 2011       08-30-2012, 5:22 AM Reply   
One other thing on the towers. For me I'd want the boat that had the tower as far back as possible. Reason being if your trying to get music back to the rider the further forward your tower the more your going to make your passengers go deaf that are sitting behind the speakers if that makes sense. While still not far enough back for my taste I think the Nauti tower had better placement for this purpose than the bu tower did.
Old    Nauti 210 (brett33)      Join Date: Apr 2011       08-30-2012, 5:31 AM Reply   
I have the solution, buy both and give me the one you like least..

Seriously though, both awesome boats.
Old    D Hill (dhill)      Join Date: Aug 2010       08-30-2012, 5:41 AM Reply   
as a sante 230 owner, i am biased, but based on the two pictures, the 210. as said earlier, that 210 looks incredible. though i've never owned a malibu, you'll be happy in either and will second the opinion of another, if you've owned the vlx, try something new. i promise you will be happy with the nautique brand as well.
Old    Jack (miljack)      Join Date: Feb 2006       08-30-2012, 5:43 AM Reply   
I think it will come down to your preference of the wake shape. I ride a lot behind an '08 210 (same hull as boat you're considering), and a 230, Malibu VTX, and 23 LSV ('05), and for my preference the CC wakes are better. The Bu wakes are rampier and don't have a "lip" like the CC wakes.
As for the build quality, my $0.02 is the CC's are built better (full disclosure, on my 2nd CC) and the impeller ballast system allows for easy ballast "plug n play" upgrades.
Interior design is also a preference, personally, we really enjoy the rear facing seating so we can watch everybody ride.
Have fun, great problem to have!
Old    Jim Shawley (nautiboy614)      Join Date: Dec 2010       08-30-2012, 6:07 AM Reply   
The 210 with the Z5 Bimini top is amazing when you have 8 riders with boards (4 on the racks, 3 on the Bimini and one in pull) reverse seating - makes watching a breeze!! I like the GPS with Nautiques to, push it down and it catches at the perfect speed, no aiming for getting it close and hoping it catches!! The nice thing is, you can slam it with weight and make a huge CLEAN wake for serious wakeboarders or leave it empty for beginners where you can go very slow and keep a clean wake. One of the most impressive boats I have ever owned. good luck!
Old    Bryce (brycejb328)      Join Date: Aug 2009       08-30-2012, 6:40 AM Reply   
Dang.. what a shame HAVING to decide between these two boats :-)

#jealous
Old     (wakebrdgod)      Join Date: Jul 2010       08-30-2012, 6:51 AM Reply   
Plug and play ballast, z5, and GPS speed control are all available on the Malibu. Not sure why the same options are touted as a selling point for one boat when they're available on the other. Longer warranty on the bu. What engines are in each? The 210 looks great as does the VLX.
Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       08-30-2012, 6:56 AM Reply   
Most Nautiques use a corsa exhaust system. Notice on the transom there is only one exhaust hole. That's because with the system they use they get a quiter exhaust system and more back pressure for increased torque. Malibu's are very nice too but I think if you are planning on keeping this boat for a long time, the Nautique will be a better investment. Can't go wrong with either boat but if they are close you will get more bang for your buck out of the Nautique.
Old    Troy Deschamps (TroyD)      Join Date: Jan 2012       08-30-2012, 7:16 AM Reply   
I love my 210, just outgrew it.
With the G21 and X10 coming out I'd wait a spell...
Old    Brett B. (Brett_B)      Join Date: Sep 2010       08-30-2012, 7:20 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordicron View Post
I don't get where everyone says there is so much more room?
Because the VLX has nearly twice the storage space at 116 cubic feet vs 60 cubic feet in the 210, and that's with 350lbs more factory ballast. It also has 75 square feet of passenger area vs 69 square feet in the 210. If the 210 has plenty of room for you that is great, but that doesn't mean they aren't significantly different. The VLX is just a bigger boat in terms of storage, passenger space, stock ballast amount and fuel capacity.


The VLX wake is wider and more rampy. The 210 wake is narrow and steeper. They are both awesome depending on personal preference.

Be sure and pay close attention to the warranty differences as well. If you go with Boaters insurance you get a 5-year powertrain warranty with the Malibu. Nautique offers a 3-year powertrain warranty.

The list posted by ifinallygota21v are things that I posted on another forum when I compared the two so I don't have anything else to add. Ultimately I went with the VLX but still liked the 210 very much. Both are great boats and choosing between the two is a great problem to have! I'm partial to red and black and that's one of the sharpest looking 210's I've seen.
Old    Ron (Nordicron)      Join Date: Aug 2011       08-30-2012, 7:49 AM Reply   
Brett you miss my point. I don't know where those numbers come from nor do I know how they measure. But from my personnel experience it doesn't at all feel like a bu has almost twice as much storage space in it, not even close. It's the numbers I question.

Also as for more factory ballast it's pretty much equalized considering the San 210 weighs 300lbs more dry anyway.
Old    CORY MITCHELL (stang_killa_ss)      Join Date: Jan 2010       08-30-2012, 8:09 AM Reply   
i love the SANs, but man i cant stand there "vertical" windsheilds. looks so dated like my first SN2001.
but you cant deny there wakes boot.
Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-30-2012, 8:45 AM Reply   
the 210 & VLX you have to choose from are FREAKIN RIDICULOUS!!!
NICE!
Old    Brett B. (Brett_B)      Join Date: Sep 2010       08-30-2012, 10:16 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordicron View Post
Brett you miss my point. I don't know where those numbers come from nor do I know how they measure. But from my personnel experience it doesn't at all feel like a bu has almost twice as much storage space in it, not even close. It's the numbers I question.
Gotcha. In my personal experience it feels like the VLX does have nearly twice the storage volume. The rear lockers are probably twice as deep. The middle rear 210 seat has no storage enclosure under it since it flips around. And the port side underseat storage is much smaller with the flip-up seat base taking up extra room. The 210 seat bases are also a couple inches lower so that adds up too.

The Malibu website dry weight numbers are also not accurate. Most say they do not include batteries, power wedge, bow ballast tank/pumps, stereo components, etc. There is a reason a VLX with gear (~150lbs), gas (320lbs), and trailer (1200lbs) typically weighs 5700+lbs on the scales. BTW, waterski magazine lists the dry weights of both boats as being within 100lbs of each other.

Last edited by Brett_B; 08-30-2012 at 10:25 AM.
Old    PLR (dbdb)      Join Date: Oct 2005       08-30-2012, 10:54 AM Reply   
That 210 looks just right. I've never been sure of why I like the way they look so much, but I do. To me, the 210 is the best looking boat of all time. I frequently look at N3 Boatworks fb page just to drool for awhile.

That being said, if I ever sell my boat, I'm probably going to get a VLX. They just handle so well, and have a great stock wake, surf well.
Old    PLR (dbdb)      Join Date: Oct 2005       08-30-2012, 10:55 AM Reply   
man...looking at that 210 again, it would be hard to be there and not buy it.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       08-30-2012, 11:05 AM Reply   
I would go with that BU and ditch the wakesetter graphics. I don' think I need to reiterate what other have said about space. Another reason I would choose the Bu is that it has the 1250 pounds of ballast plus a power wedge. The only reason you will need more ballast is for surfing. If you get the nautique and want a bigger wake you wil have to plumb in bags in the rear which is fine because you may want to do that for either if you plan on surfing but you will have to figure out where to put in extra weight u pfront for wakeboarding. There isn't a ton of room to put much under the bow seats if using an IBS bag so you either have to put in lead, a sack in the walk way or a sack on the bow seats. The Bu wake is money for 90% of the people other there stock straight out of the box with the 4 tank ballast and wedge. The only reason you need to add weight is for surfing or you wnat a pro level wake.

It was a 2008 VLX but my old roommate Bret V who use to be a pro wakeboarder had one. He never put extra weight and loved the wake. It is so nice just pushing a few buttons and having it filled in a couple minutes.

I am not saying there is a difference in quality of materials between the 2 but the Bu definately is more plush looking and feeling. I am not sure you can argue that. I prefer the simple wrap around seating. The rear facing seats are nice in the Nautique but come at a price. They take up storage.

honestly I would absolutely love either but would love the Bu more.
Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-30-2012, 12:29 PM Reply   
Just look at the comparison pictures. That gaudy bird has to go on the Nautique. The Malibu tower looks so much better, as does the windshield. From a looks standpoint the Malibu wins hands down.

I also don't like the Nautique's drop in the floor for the driver. Dash isn't nearly as nice as the Malibu's (I don't like the Nautique dash at all), seats aren't as comfortable, and anyone defending a lack of storage on a boat as "why do you need so much storage" obviously has owners goggles on, because the more storage, the better, no matter what brand it is. And don't forget the stick-on fake teak Nautique seems to put on most of their boats.
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            08-30-2012, 12:36 PM Reply   
^^^tell us how you really feel lol
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       08-30-2012, 12:41 PM Reply   
I like the Malibu better. Even if you look back at the Malibus over the last 6-7 years, they still look current. They just have a timeless look to them from the body/hull lines to the graphics. In 5 years that Malibu will still look current.
Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-30-2012, 12:47 PM Reply   
why you hating on the bird-nitrousbird? hahaha
Attached Images
 
Old    sperbet            08-30-2012, 12:57 PM Reply   
It's all personal preference as far as the looks go. I'm not a fan of the body builder eagle either, but I think the 210 (minus the body building eagle) is a better looking boat. I also prefer the 210 tower.

And while the Wakesetter lettering isn't as bad as the eagle, it still looks terrible IMO. Essentially both boats will look significantly better without the gaudy mfg decals.
Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-30-2012, 1:03 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by migs View Post
why you hating on the bird-nitrousbird? hahaha
Screen name based on my heavily modified Formula Firebird, that doesn't have a bird symbol anywhere on it.

That stupid bird is tacky.
Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-30-2012, 1:05 PM Reply   
^^^just pullin your chain brah
Old    Travis (fman)      Join Date: Nov 2008       08-30-2012, 1:05 PM Reply   
I have 247 Hours on my 2011 VLX, boat has one of the most user friendly wakes I have ever been behind. We tow all levels of riders, the quad tank ballast system is awesome, along with the power wedge. I have been behind a 210 and did not care for the rampy wake, it boots you.... Im 40 now and like soft landings and easy lifts, buts that my preference. I have friends who are advanced riders, they love the VLX wake, all impressed by what it offers stock out of the box.

I do like the rear facing seating on the Nautique, thats a great feature, something the VLX definitely is lacking. I see the Nautique has the Z-5 cargo rack, they are great, my only complaint when I had one was they are a headache to move around and you cant take it down and put it back up on the water without a users manual and putting you in a bad mood. The G3 tower will stow a lot of gear with the quad board racks...

The surf wake on the VLX with additional weight (750 in lockers) is just decent, not sure how it would compare to the 210.

Does the Nautique offer the following?

Quad tank ballast system?
Power wedge?
Quad board rack capability?
100" beam width?
Ability to stow kneeboards in ski lockers?
Walk thru transom cover?
Stowable bimini cover that stays on the tower?
Snap out carpet?

These are some of the features I like about the VLX, not sure if the 210 offers all of these.... I would definitely say the Malibu will last as long as the 210.... both are well designed, and are easily 10+ year boats. Both companies seem to have decent warranty support and usually take care of issues they are responsible for.

Both have gobs of electronics, they are fun, but thats one item I always wonder about for longevity. Glad I live in Nor-Cal and store my boat indoors without harsh winter conditions... not sure if electronics dig the freezing cold.

Only bummer about the 2012 is no surf gate, which is a great feature.... probably will get you a great deal on the 2012...

Your dealer also plays a big part in your purchase, how far away is each dealer? You will have little items come up throughout your ownership, if you ever have to take it in, having a close dealer is always a plus with good mechanics and customer service.

Great problem to have, I would just think about what each offers, what is important to you, and what boat gives you the "good feeling" when driving it, looking at it and riding behind it.

Last edited by fman; 08-30-2012 at 1:09 PM.
Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-30-2012, 1:22 PM Reply   
210 doesnt have quad tanks cause it doesnt need all that weight to create a great wake.
210 has the hydrogate which changes your wake from Rampy to steep and allows you to get on plane faster when sacked out.
Old    Travis (fman)      Join Date: Nov 2008       08-30-2012, 2:50 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by migs View Post
210 doesnt have quad tanks cause it doesnt need all that weight to create a great wake.
210 has the hydrogate which changes your wake from Rampy to steep and allows you to get on plane faster when sacked out.
We all know you are a huge CC fan, and thats great to cheer for your brand but I am not sure if all your comments are always accurate.

You can run less than 1250 lbs of ballast + wedge and get a larger wake than the VLX? Wow, you are right, that is amazing. What is the ballast configuration on the 210? Last I checked it was 900 lbs.... The hydro gate is a "wake plate", correct? pretty sure it is nothing compared to the wedge and having as much affect on changing the wake size and shape. At least the 210 I was in (2009 I believe) had a wake plate (or hydro gate as CC calls it), it was the same plate I had on my Supra, and it had little affect on actually changing the wake shape in comparison to the wedge. Maybe the newer 2012 models have changed there design...

Weight distribution is always key in wake size, with the quad tanks it lets you distribute weight in the boat where needed. This applies to a smaller beginner wake, to a larger advanced wake. I am not arguing the 210 does not produce a nice wake, but when comparing the boats for purchase its tough to argue that having an additional 350 lbs in the bow is not a good thing for wakeboarding or surfing. I even fill the front take up for Slalom skiing to flatten the wake even more, which btw, the VLX c an produce a nice slalom wake at 32-34 MPH, definitely ski-able without bouncing you all over the place.

For comparison, the VLX also has a larger fuel tank, 46 gallons compared to 40.... for a full day on the water is always nice to have a little extra.

They are both great boats, but the VLX does have some additional features that the 210 does not.

A picture is worth a thousand words, IXFE video of the 18 MPH clean wake pretty much sums it up.... for comparison does anyone have a picture of the 210's wake at 18 MPH? I can also attest the VLX wake is always clean at 21-24 MPH for advanced riders.

Last edited by fman; 08-30-2012 at 2:58 PM.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       08-30-2012, 2:57 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fman View Post
We all know you are a huge CC fan, and thats great to cheer for your brand but I am not sure if all your comments are always accurate.

You can run less than 1250 lbs of ballast + wedge and get a larger wake than the VLX? Wow, you are right, that is amazing. What is the ballast configuration on the 210? The hydro gate is a "wake plate", correct? pretty sure it is nothing compared to the wedge and having as much affect on changing the wake size and shape. At least the 210 I was in (2009 I believe) had a wake plate (or hydro gate as CC calls it), it was the same plate I had on my Supra, and it had little affect on actually changing the wake shape in comparison to the wedge. Maybe the newer 2012 models have changed there design...

Weight distribution is always key in wake size, with the quad tanks it lets you distribute weight in the boat where needed. This applies to a smaller beginner wake, to a larger advanced wake. I am not arguing the 210 does not produce a nice wake, but when comparing the boats for purchase its tough to argue that having an additional 350 lbs in the bow is not a good thing for wakeboarding or surfing. I even fill the front take up for Slalom skiing to flatten the wake even more, which btw, the VLX c an produce a nice slalom wake at 32-34 MPH, definitely ski-able without bouncing you all over the place.
Hydrogate isn't really a trim tab like you are talking about. It is a plate that sits flush against the transom. When up or not deployed it makes the hull have no "hook" which lets it ride deeper in the water. This shoudl also steepen the wake. when in the down position it mimicks having a hook at the back of the hull. This raised the rear of the hull up which in theory at least would mean it is displacing less water and the wake would be smaller and more mellow. That said, the hull still needs more weight with the plate in the up position to make a bigger wake than it would without the plate on the back at all. On the other hand the wedge definately pulls the hull down and mimicks more ballast. There is no way the stock wake of the SAN210 is even close to as big as the VLX with 4 tank ballast and wedge.

Basically if you took the SAN210 hull and had no hydrogate it would have the same exact wake as with the hydrogate in the "wakeboard" mode.
Old    Travis (fman)      Join Date: Nov 2008       08-30-2012, 3:04 PM Reply   
For kicks I went on the Nautique website, after clicking on the 210 model, I cant even find any information on the "hydro gate", I would think CC would be advertising this for such a great feature. Maybe I did not dig deep enough??? If anyone has a link on there website about it please post it up, I am curious how it works.
Old    sperbet            08-30-2012, 3:51 PM Reply   
Who cares if you have "quad tanks" if they only hold 1250 #s. IMO thats a worthless feature. Kneeboards in the locker? Once again totally worthless. A clean wakeboard wake at 18 mph, again, totally worthless. I may have missed it, but did the OP ever state he cared about a clean wake at 18 mph? Not trying to bash you, but just because a boat is good based on YOUR needs doesn't mean that's everyone else's needs. Maybe the OP needs to be a bit more clear in what the main purpose/use of the boat actually is. Is it for his kids or is it for him?
Old    Johnny (JohnnyDefacto)      Join Date: Mar 2010       08-30-2012, 3:58 PM Reply   
I always thought the hydrogate was just to help plane? Last time I checked there are 3 positions, up, middle and down... atleast in 08 (I think). we always ride in the up position and with a little bit extra ballast so we never need the gate to help us plane. Maybe I am missunderstanding the gate, but I do not think it is a wake shaper, not with only 3 positions... (tige taps shapes the wake with a lot of positions, and malibu powerwedge has a lot of positions to choose as well)
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       08-30-2012, 4:03 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyDefacto View Post
I always thought the hydrogate was just to help plane? Last time I checked there are 3 positions, up, middle and down... atleast in 08 (I think). we always ride in the up position and with a little bit extra ballast so we never need the gate to help us plane. Maybe I am missunderstanding the gate, but I do not think it is a wake shaper, not with only 3 positions... (tige taps shapes the wake with a lot of positions, and malibu powerwedge has a lot of positions to choose as well)
In theory it would help you get on plane when in the down position because it mimicks a hook in the hull which lifts the transom up. It is basically a different way of getting the same function of a trim tab. The difference is the tab follows the running surface of the hull bottom adn the hydrogate is vertical or sits flush on the transom.
Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-30-2012, 4:04 PM Reply   
Actually get out on a 210 and check out the gate. Changes the shape of the wake = FACT.
if you actually havent been out on a 210 ..... well then......

Im a HUGE wake boat FAN. Not just CC. I love all boats. Ive owned many brands.
Just giving the OP some facts about the 210.
Old    Nick Clydesdale (clydesy)      Join Date: Aug 2011       08-30-2012, 6:33 PM Reply   
i only use the hydrogate for two reasons on my 210, to get on plane easier and it also cleans up the wake a bit. doesnt really make it bigger just gets rid of any wash.
Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-30-2012, 7:10 PM Reply   
Gate pushed forward- no lip. Gate pulled back-pronounced lip.
I'll try and take some pics this weekend.
Old    Ron (Nordicron)      Join Date: Aug 2011       08-30-2012, 8:03 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by migs View Post
Gate pushed forward- no lip. Gate pulled back-pronounced lip.
I'll try and take some pics this weekend.
Exactly! Gate forward little pop, gate back your going towards the moon!

Also: yeah that's a knee board...also locker is over 17" deep: so is the VLX locker the 35"????

Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       08-30-2012, 9:08 PM Reply   
Knee boards? We talking about knee boards?
Old     (madcityskier)      Join Date: Jun 2012       08-30-2012, 9:32 PM Reply   
dbc is your 6 year old like 6'3" 250lbs, or can the boat just not allow the average 6year old to sit where they want. These things are roughly 4000 lbs, and yet 50 makes such a differnece you must make excuses for the wake as you are busy posting the video? Duct tape him to the seat first next time. I've ridden the 210, surfed it, driven it, and skied the course behind it. Would love to try skiing behind the BU. At 6'4' 280lbs there aren't many that will let me surf and still tow a slalom skier for more than a recreational set. Gotta say the 210 is not nearly that weight sensative. Tons of space, not sure what you'd want to bring beyond 10 or more people, 4 boards, 2 surfers, 3 skis, a tube, cooler full of drinks, couple of kneeboards and no stuff on the floor. Not trying to say anything bad about the VLX, I'm sure it's great, but seems like people want to say bad things about the Nauti who must never have seen one in person, let alone ridden one. For the record the hydro gate makes a huge difference in the wake shape.
For anyone who wants to claim "owner goggles", I own a MasterCraft myself. As much as I love my boat, these are both great boats. Best bet is try to get a chance to take your family out on each for a few hours, then ask the wife. She'll tell you what you should buy, and she'll be right.
Old     (madcityskier)      Join Date: Jun 2012       08-30-2012, 9:37 PM Reply   
JR Smith (wakintime) Join Date: Jul 2011 Yesterday, 9:52 PM Reply Quick Reply
It's a 210. Have had 2 VLX's before and the San 210 has been dream boat. Seriously 2 different wakes. Love them both. Trying to make right choice. Sure am confusing. I think all wakeboard boats on the market are mostly really good. I think all the boats are overpriced but right now the opportunity to get 1 of these boats are now. I will try to post pix. Any pro's and con's appreciated!

If the 210 is the dream boat, why is this even a discussion?
Old    JR Smith (wakintime)      Join Date: Jul 2011       08-30-2012, 9:45 PM Reply   
Problem is wifey is confused too. She loves wakeboarding as much as me. Likes the wake of C.C but interior of BU.
Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-30-2012, 9:47 PM Reply   
Hey travis(fman) - what in this statement is inaccurate?
210 doesnt have quad tanks cause it doesnt need all that weight to create a great wake.
210 has the hydrogate which changes your wake from Rampy to steep and allows you to get on plane faster when sacked out.

Did I say that the 210 had a better wake than the vlx stock? Nope! Just that it doesn't need quad tanks to produce a great wake.
Did I say the hydrogate was Better than the wedge? Nope! Just that it has one that changes the wake.
So what again was not accurate?
Old     (madcityskier)      Join Date: Jun 2012       08-30-2012, 10:03 PM Reply   
JR
How many people andwhat gear are you planning to take? Also, where are you located? Gotta be a couple people here who would take you and the family out for a few hours just to pimp their brand and help you make an informed decision. Probably cost you $20 in gas at the most, more likely a 6pack.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       08-30-2012, 10:03 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordicron View Post
Also: yeah that's a knee board...also locker is over 17" deep: so is the VLX locker the 35"????
Well, I'm not the one who made the claim about locker depth, but your picture got me thinking... So I went out to the garage and measured my VLX.

As you can see it's 24" deep. My finger is pointing to the 17" mark of the 210. It may not be twice as deep, but it's a big difference.



I also took pictures of the size of the opening... 21" x 30".



Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       08-30-2012, 10:21 PM Reply   
Miguel, you can get the VLX with no wedge and no bow ballast which would give it basically the same ballast setup as the 210.

This is what I think is important for the OP.

1) both boats can make a very forgivable wake for beginneers.
2) both boats suck at slalom skiing but "can be skied"
3) both boats can produce ridiculously nice, pro level wakeboarding wakes with extra weight.
4) The malibu has more storage(I haven't measured anything but aparently if you do it is a fact, not opinion. Whether you need it or not another discussion)
5) The malibu has more space in the cabin/cockpit. Now this might not be that big of a difference but it is a difference.
6) The nautique has more seating options with the rear facing seat on the port side and the rear facing rear seat.
7) The malibu has a bigger "stock" wakebaording wake. Not sure how anybody can argue this. My guess is that the 210 and VLX(with no bow ballast and no wedge) have pretty similar sized and shaped wakes.
8) Both have adjustable shaped wakes. The malibu with the wedge, nautique with the hydrogate.
9) the nautiqe has a full walk through into the bow. the malibu gives you the option depending on if you want bow ballast or not.
11) Both towers function pretty similar. Personally the G3 looks nicer but that is opinion, not fact.
12) The malibu interior is plusher.
13) Some may argue the nautique is better built and they may be right but I think the difference is negligable.

look, I think both boats are great. Especially the 2 the OP is looking at. I would love to own either. The difference for me would lie with the VLX having a better stock wake(with 4 tanks and wedge) and the extra room. I personally don't care that much about the rear facing seating options which is the only tangibl advantage I see in the Nautique. PCM engines are nice but I think the difference between PCM and Indmar is so neglibible it is a non factor. Now if I had a local Nautique dealer I liked a lot more and gave me a better deal then I may go that way. But if dealers are equivalent I would choose the Malibu.

Last edited by polarbill; 08-30-2012 at 10:25 PM.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       08-30-2012, 10:31 PM Reply   
by the way, if you threw the VLX above on a tricked out trailer like ths SAN plus put the bimini out, it would look as good if not better. My guess is the Malibu would look better on the water either way. Also, both have crappy graphics but the douchie UFC/affliction bird is worse then the wakesetter weird graphic. Both would look better without those graphics.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       08-30-2012, 10:36 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by madcityskier View Post
dbc is your 6 year old like 6'3" 250lbs, or can the boat just not allow the average 6year old to sit where they want. These things are roughly 4000 lbs, and yet 50 makes such a differnece you must make excuses for the wake as you are busy posting the video? Duct tape him to the seat first next time.
I don't even know how to respond to this. All I ever hear on this forum is how nobody ever uses facts, just spouts opinions. So I post of video (aka facts) of one of the many virtues of the VLX, and I get slammed... from a guy with no profile to speak of and a total of 10 posts on WW. Did I say I didn't like the 210? No. I actually stated that after two VLX's, I could totally understand why the OP might go the other way. I even came back to edit my post to say how sick that 210 looked (which it does). And still you hate... ****in' nit pickers.

Now my response... I have not been on a wake boat that's not weight sensitive. If they are not weight sensitive, then why are pop bags only 40 lbs.? Could it be because 40 lbs. placed in just the right spot can make a difference?? What do I know...? Maybe the good folks at CC have figured out a way to defy the laws of physics.

In point of fact, the VLX is actually a very stable boat due to the flat bottom. It's becomes even less weight sensitive with the wedge down (which it wasn't in that video).

As far as me making excuses, I guess that's what this place has done to me... I'm so paranoid that haters like you will blast my video that I feel it necessary to explain what was going on behind the camera. If I hadn't included what I thought was a cute disclaimer about my 6 year old angel, you or migs or mhunter or robert would have been in full attack mode, "why is there a hint of froth on that wake for the first 10 seconds...?"


Quote:
Originally Posted by wakintime View Post
I am totally confused. Test driven both and ridden both wakes. It's a stand off. Prices are very close. I am not looking for bashing. Just unbiased opinions without owner glasses on. Thanks.
Funny how you thought this place could resist. Have fun with your boat shopping. Post more pics when you get one of those beauties home.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       08-30-2012, 10:45 PM Reply   
Hey, madcity... if the 210 is so tollerant of weight shifts, why is this wake completely washed out on the port side??

To be completely honest, it doesn't look that good on either side.

Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-30-2012, 10:57 PM Reply   
DBC - never did I say one thing negative about the vlx. Nor do I slam other boats or folks on here. I just point out things on boats I've owned or ridden behind.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       08-30-2012, 11:18 PM Reply   
You're right, Migs... you are one of the good guys. Sorry to throw you into the mix.
Old    Ron (Nordicron)      Join Date: Aug 2011       08-31-2012, 4:57 AM Reply   
yeah DBC nor have I said one bad thing about a VLX. I've actually never riden behind one just crawled around in them on the showroom floor.

I Only tried to provide fact and personal experience to the OP. People chimed in about oh but the VLX wake is so mello for kids and I post a pick of my 8yr old daughter from my Iphone being held up by me while I'm driving to show that its entirely possible to teach a kid to board behind and what it looks like at 17mph(we are actually in a river going down stream which probably adds to the difficulty of keeping things clean at 17mph). Yeah I didn't take the time to clean up everyone on the boat to get that perfect still shot but that can be done. My point was to show my little kid cutting in pretty darn hard to a nice mello wake.

And I also don't know who said storage was twice as deep in the VLX so I posted a pic of 17.5" deep and ask for someone to show me 35"??? You post something up which appears to be 19.5(floor to bottom of locker cover) big deal.

Someone asks oh can you fit a knee board in the locker so I provide a pic.

people talked about std ballast being 300 more well I point out that on the mfg sites the boats dryweights are 400lbs apart which to me would make up for it but yet still that doesn't seem to matter.

To the OP I strongly urge you to see if you can find someone to go take a ride with. Even better set something up on the same lake at the same time between a vlx and a Nauti. and pick what you like best because it seems all your gonna get on this site is owner goggle bias.

For me my dream boat was a Nautique also...still is(expcept its now the g23)

Last edited by Nordicron; 08-31-2012 at 5:01 AM. Reason: addition
Old    Michael Hunter (mhunter)      Join Date: Mar 2008       08-31-2012, 6:30 AM Reply   
DBC I have not posted anything on this thread and you still call me out by name?
I looked at the VLX in 08 before I bought the 210 . I wanted it to fail on the test drive but it didn't the wake , handling and overall experience went well . It all boiled down to personal preference. Test drive/ride both and pick the one you like best. As for storage on the 210 I carry 2 to 4 wakeboards, 2 coolers, 4 fenders, 2 anchors w chains,10 life jackets ,2 wake ropes,2 ski ropes,1 surf rope ,2 jackets 1 tool box and a 1st aid kit nothing is ever on the floor . I also have 2 400lb sacks in the rear lockers for surfing I dont move anything to fill them. If the OP is anywhere near Lake Lanier Georgia let me know I will take you out for a day.
Old    Jim Shawley (nautiboy614)      Join Date: Dec 2010       08-31-2012, 7:28 AM Reply   
I agree on the Nautique storage capacity. I run around 5k in ballast (all hidden) 6 wakeboards & 1 surfboard (3 wakeboards on the Z5, 3 in the racks and 1 surfboard in the rack) I have 4 fenders, 10+ life jackets, multiple ropes, anchors, coolers, tool kit. any night of the week you can find me with a minimum of 8 people on my boat and never feel like I don't have room for stuff. I have everything plumbed in, so I can drain for beginners and fill for whoever wants it. as for the wake plate, forward when taking off or going through rollers and pulled back for riding. If your ever in C-Bus - hit me up and I can show you what the possibilities are on the 210 wake
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...type=3&theater
Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-31-2012, 8:13 AM Reply   
^^^JIM - -whoa!!!! that 210 is BADASSSSSSSS
Old    Trapper (canucked)      Join Date: Jun 2007       08-31-2012, 8:19 AM Reply   
JIm, the colour combo on that orange/silver boat is awesome.
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            08-31-2012, 8:37 AM Reply   
Say what you want about the looks of the Wakesetter...its a great looking boat. But holy h-e double hockey sticks, that Scioto 210 is amazing. O-H
Old    JR Smith (wakintime)      Join Date: Jul 2011       09-01-2012, 7:39 PM Reply   
so decided on nautique. One of the two boats. Opinions on which one is more pleasing to the eye requested. No comments about decals because they will be coming off. Torn on which one! Thanks[ATTACH]Name:  vp2664801_1_large.jpg
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Old    Adam R (wakecumberland)      Join Date: Oct 2007       09-01-2012, 8:14 PM Reply   
Black tower boat for sure
Old    Johnny (JohnnyDefacto)      Join Date: Mar 2010       09-01-2012, 8:52 PM Reply   
x2.... no doubt. second boat is sexy
Old    Chad Helvey (venom93corba)      Join Date: Aug 2005       09-01-2012, 9:42 PM Reply   
Agreed the black tower looks alot better.
Old    Travis (fman)      Join Date: Nov 2008       09-01-2012, 10:33 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by sperbet View Post
Who cares if you have "quad tanks" if they only hold 1250 #s. IMO thats a worthless feature. Kneeboards in the locker? Once again totally worthless. A clean wakeboard wake at 18 mph, again, totally worthless. I may have missed it, but did the OP ever state he cared about a clean wake at 18 mph? Not trying to bash you, but just because a boat is good based on YOUR needs doesn't mean that's everyone else's needs. Maybe the OP needs to be a bit more clear in what the main purpose/use of the boat actually is. Is it for his kids or is it for him?
Have you actually ever spent any time in a newer (2010) VLX????

Next time you respond, make sure and read the entire post.

The quad tanks serve a purpose not only for wakeboarding but surfing and slalom skiing. Having 4 tanks is always better than 3, its a no brainer. No, I am not saying he is ever going to surf or slalom skiiing, but for purchasing why not have more options to you???

You missed my point on the wake, the VLX is good for a beginner rider to the most advanced. 1250 lbs is only in the hard tanks, then add the wedge and the wake even gets better. Storage is always key, no matter what you are putting in the lockers. I am sure the OP will sometime in his ownership tow beginner riders at slower speeds, and YES this does make a difference. The VLX wake is clean all the way from 18-25 MPH. Maybe the 210 does this as well, when I rode behind the 210 I was at 21 MPH and did not care for the steep wake with little transition....just my opinion.

The OP should be aware of all the pros and cons to each boat. Both are great boats, but they both do have different options that he should be aware of.
Old    Travis (fman)      Join Date: Nov 2008       09-01-2012, 10:43 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by migs View Post
Hey travis(fman) - what in this statement is inaccurate?
210 doesnt have quad tanks cause it doesnt need all that weight to create a great wake.
210 has the hydrogate which changes your wake from Rampy to steep and allows you to get on plane faster when sacked out.

Did I say that the 210 had a better wake than the vlx stock? Nope! Just that it doesn't need quad tanks to produce a great wake.
Did I say the hydrogate was Better than the wedge? Nope! Just that it has one that changes the wake.
So what again was not accurate?
Miguel,

Or maybe the wake would even be that much better with quad tanks????

From what I witnessed on the 210 I was on, the hydro gate did not affect the wake near as much as the power wedge. It seemed to create the same results as on my Supra which was a wakeplate. Its pretty obvious if you look at the engineering of the wedge, and the hydro gate you can see why. Not that is does not work at all, just not as well in creating a larger wake and shaping more drastically like the wedge does. Love or hate the wedge, its a pretty cool design and definitely works...

I can only speak for what I saw that day, I like the 210 but there are some definite differences in the wake, wakeplates and ballast system the OP should definitely be aware of. Both of the boats are very nice, but definitely are different. That being said, I will take the 210 rear facing seating any day over the VLX.... thats my one gripe about the boat, no rear facing seats to be found (even on the 2013 models coming out).

I always hesitate to post on these types of threads, for some reason people have a very difficult time accepting some boats have better features than others..... and the bashing begins. Bottom line is the OP needs to spend a substantial amount of time in each boat, he is writing the check and needs to feel good about his purchase.

Last edited by fman; 09-01-2012 at 10:46 PM.
Old    Bevan (stxr_racer)      Join Date: Jun 2006       09-02-2012, 3:03 AM Reply   
Red and black 210 with black tower looks awesome!
Old    PLR (dbdb)      Join Date: Oct 2005       09-02-2012, 5:52 AM Reply   
Black tower

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