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Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-13-2012, 12:14 PM Reply   
I just ordered two pairs of these on Exile's demo deal. Now I need to power them.

Currently have nothing on the tower (all wiring already ordered). Head unit is an Alpine iDA-X100M (with multiple remotes and Sirius). http://www.alpine-usa.com/product/view/ida-x100m/

Sub will likely be upgraded over the winter, currently an Infinity Basslink. Hits a lot harder than you would think but still isn't a proper sub...purchased by the boats original owner:
http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Bassl...inity+basslink

Speakers are stock Malibu Infinity dash 6.5" speakers. Rears are Polk db651: http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-6-5...rds=polk+db651

Eclipse 3640 (old 4-channel 40x4 I've had for about 10-12 years) running the in-boat speakers.

What I want: something that will run all 4 towers and all 4 in-boat speakers. SYN6 would be perfect for my needs - not working with my budget (which I already blew with the tower speakers).

What I can probably afford: 2-channel running at 2ohm powering the towers, running the in-boat speakers with the Eclipse.

Budget: under $300 online. Used okay as well. Timeline - this week. Quality...important. Don't care if it is Marine rated - my Eclipse isn't and has worked perfectly. I am thinking I need at least 200x2 RMS @ 2ohm, running the speakers in parallel. Perhaps they need more - they are rated @ 125 watts RMS.

Here is a list of amps I've come up with. Tell me if any of them suck (I'm not brand loyal). Please make any budget-minded suggestions as well:
JL M400/4
Kicker ZXM450.2
Boston Acoustics GT-2200
DLS CA 23 (have never heard of this company)
Rockford Fosgate Punch P500-2
Rockford Fosgate Power T400-2
Polk Audio PAD2000.2
Image Dynamics Q700.2
Arc Audio KS300.2 (had a member suggest a place I may be able to get it for $300 shipped).

Slight budget buster but could also run my in-boats as well:
Rockford Fosgate P1000X4D (can get it for about $370 new). 250x4 @ 2ohm; would have to back down the gains a lot for my in-boat speakers, obviously.

Could run all my speakers (on paper at least), well within budget, but not sure how good of an amp this is:
Polk Audio PAD4000.4

Please be brutally honest. If one of these amps suck, please tell me. If any of them are overrated on power, sound like crap, etc...let me have it.
Old    Murphy Smith (murphy_smith)      Join Date: Dec 2005       08-13-2012, 12:59 PM Reply   
I have heard pretty good things about these amps. Of those two - I would get the 4 channel and put 145 watts to each speaker at 4 ohms. Very Clean and Very Effiicient.

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...er-P900.4.html

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...er-P600.2.html
Old     (Truekaotik)      Join Date: Jun 2012       08-13-2012, 1:09 PM Reply   
From your post, I'd pick the Arc 300.2... That will put 175w to each exile @2ohms... Perfect... For 300 shipped you can't beat it..
Old     (Truekaotik)      Join Date: Jun 2012       08-13-2012, 1:12 PM Reply   
You'll only get 100 watts out of that 4 channel PPI murphy smith... sorry man.. They are decent amps but have a hearty power supply.. Plus are over "rated" to sell... If your looking for only 100 watts a speaker, the JL 400.4 would be a choice?

Last edited by Truekaotik; 08-13-2012 at 1:15 PM.
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       08-13-2012, 1:16 PM Reply   
Though MAP puts it out of your budget, I would also consider the Kicker full-range Class-D IX500.2. 250W rms x 2 @ 2 ohm.
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       08-13-2012, 1:23 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truekaotik View Post
You'll only get 100 watts out of that 4 channel PPI murphy smith... sorry man.. They are decent amps but have a hearty power supply.. Plus are over "rated" to sell... If your looking for only 100 watts a speaker, the JL 400.4 would be a choice?
The 145W x 4 @ 4 ohm from the P9004 is at 14.4V, same voltage that the Arc delivers its 350W x 2 @ 2 ohm
Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-13-2012, 1:41 PM Reply   
I guess the other question is how much do these Exiles really need?

I got the Exiles for the sound quality and for hearing the stereo better when swimming around the boat or to hear it when surfing. I do not have any intention of using them when wakeboarding/slalom, one of the reasons I passed on an HLCD type of speaker. I would like it to get loud but I'm not looking to blast out the lake.

I can say I'm not going to break budget for a 2-channel amp, so the IX500.2 is out.
Old     (Truekaotik)      Join Date: Jun 2012       08-13-2012, 1:53 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chpthril View Post
The 145W x 4 @ 4 ohm from the P9004 is at 14.4V, same voltage that the Arc delivers its 350W x 2 @ 2 ohm
True, HEHE, that is what the Arc is rated at 14.4... so say it puts 140 -150 to each at 12V... This will atleast give you some headroom...*you cant beat 300 shipped on those... they are nice amps and on the higher end of the ones mentioned besides JL.... the Kicker is the same and rated at 14.4 ... JL is actually the only one properly rated thats been mentioned so far....
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       08-13-2012, 1:55 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrousbird View Post
I guess the other question is how much do these Exiles really need?

I got the Exiles for the sound quality and for hearing the stereo better when swimming around the boat or to hear it when surfing. I do not have any intention of using them when wakeboarding/slalom, one of the reasons I passed on an HLCD type of speaker. I would like it to get loud but I'm not looking to blast out the lake.

I can say I'm not going to break budget for a 2-channel amp, so the IX500.2 is out.
I knew the IX500.2 would be a stretch, but its an awesome amp. Small footprint, efficiant, etc.

Ive run these Exiles at 200W on my demo board, but do they all need to be run at that level....no. Ive also powered them as low as 75W and they sound fine, just not as loud. Personally, I like to be between 100W - 125W rms for a surf/party-cove type coax. More power equals more volume and a cleaner sound at the upper levels. If you can get a KS300.2 for $300, then go for it. If not, I wouldnt hesitate to go with the ZXM450.2. Solid amp all day long.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-13-2012, 1:56 PM Reply   
As with most things having the extra power and not needing it is better than wishing you had it and not having it. You are more likely to damage your speakers by sending them a clipped signal than by overpowering.

Agree with mike -- zxm450.2 is a solid amp too. downsides are it will get HOT when run hard and it has a bigger footprint than a ks300.2. But it'll sound great.

Last edited by shawndoggy; 08-13-2012 at 1:59 PM.
Old     (Truekaotik)      Join Date: Jun 2012       08-13-2012, 2:04 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrousbird View Post
I guess the other question is how much do these Exiles really need?

I got the Exiles for the sound quality and for hearing the stereo better when swimming around the boat or to hear it when surfing. I do not have any intention of using them when wakeboarding/slalom, one of the reasons I passed on an HLCD type of speaker. I would like it to get loud but I'm not looking to blast out the lake.

I can say I'm not going to break budget for a 2-channel amp, so the IX500.2 is out.
you can put anything from say 65w on the LOW end ( i wouldnt put anything less than 100 or you wasted money) to say 200w... Some like headroom, some like strictly RMS power. Up to you? in your price range its gonna be tough to do a regulated or true power rated amp "above" 75 -100w per speaker.... this is just my view..
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       08-13-2012, 2:11 PM Reply   
The JL M400/4 with a retail price of $419 is only 75W x 4 @ 4 ohm @ 14.4V and 60W x 4 @ 4 ohm @ 12.5 volts. Good solid amp, but if compared by $$$ V's RMS, its not the best value.
Old    Travis LeJeune (Travis)      Join Date: Jul 2012       08-13-2012, 4:37 PM Reply   
Why not just run the Exile 800.4 and run the tower in 2 ohm stereo off of that?? class A clean power which fits what your looking for and very efficient as well???
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       08-13-2012, 4:54 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Why not just run the Exile 800.4 and run the tower in 2 ohm stereo off of that?? class A clean power which fits what your looking for and very efficient as well???
The current full-range Class-D and G/H offerings are just as clean as A/B, as most are very similar on the output side. The difference is the on the input power supply side. Theres nothing efficient about 20th century class-A/B technology. Plus, its 2 ohm power is a little more over 110W rms x 4 @ 2 ohm @ 14.4V. So that would be a net to each speaker of 55W rms. Not a good value with a retail price of $550.00 when compared to the others listed. Even at the manufacturers current "Special" of $499, there are better options.
Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-13-2012, 5:07 PM Reply   
I looked more into that Polk 4-channel; any thoughts on this article (they state it is underrated):
http://www.pasmag.com/car-audio/test...004-amplifier-

I like the idea of powering towers and in-boats with one amp and this "could" do it @ below budget. Marine rated too.

Exile 800.4, even though Earmark has it for $350 (on backorder though), I'm thinking that doesn't have the power to get the job done.
Old     (Truekaotik)      Join Date: Jun 2012       08-13-2012, 5:21 PM Reply   
Go for it! If that's what you like, I see no issue going with it
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-13-2012, 5:28 PM Reply   
Those little digital Class D's (that all seem to be the same) are hard to find in stock. Everywhere I looked for the PPI was sold out for quite a while. The Boston Acoustic will sound killer on them and provide you with 175 watts each for a killer price. I've had mine (GT-28, previous generation) for 4 seasons now and its still going strong.That said I'd likely do the ARC because of the G/H topology for only $300 more ,if that price rings true.
Old    Jeff Hill (hillbilly)      Join Date: Aug 2002       08-13-2012, 8:06 PM Reply   
I have an older PPI 4125 sitting in my garage

.

Not sure what it's worth. But I know it works.
It has a huge footprint though.
Old    Richard Coop (mendo247)      Join Date: Mar 2005       08-13-2012, 9:25 PM Reply   
I thought people were raving about those PPI Phantoms?
Old    Tucker McElroy (Tucker_McElroy)      Join Date: Mar 2012       08-13-2012, 10:15 PM Reply   
What about an alpine PDX? They are all over Craigslist.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-14-2012, 9:59 AM Reply   
Quote:
I thought people were raving about those PPI Phantoms?
Probably why thery are sold out everywhere.

This looks like a nice little amp that falls inline with all of these inexpensive digital class D amps, though I have never heard of the company.
NVX JAD800.4
Old     (Diggertaker)      Join Date: Dec 2011       08-14-2012, 11:07 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by hatepain View Post
Probably why thery are sold out everywhere.

This looks like a nice little amp that falls inline with all of these inexpensive digital class D amps, though I have never heard of the company.
NVX JAD800.4
Review of this amp on 2 Rev 10's on the malibu crew right now.
Old    Murphy Smith (murphy_smith)      Join Date: Dec 2005       08-14-2012, 11:51 AM Reply   
That is the same amp as the PPI Phantom....NVX

The thing is that one house build all these amps the same and then thy are cosmteically customized for the specific brand
Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-14-2012, 12:12 PM Reply   
The NVX JAD800.4 and the Polk PAD4000.4 are the exact same amp. Same specs, almost identical look, exact same external component placement.

The PPI Phantom 900.4 may be slightly different. Amps look very similar; specs are a little different (slightly higher on the PPI). All of the external components on the PPI are flipped externally vs the NVX and Polk units.
Old     (Truekaotik)      Join Date: Jun 2012       08-14-2012, 1:13 PM Reply   
They are all 3 the same foot print with different shell designs... PPI has always over rated there amps but, don't let that determine what you want.. They are ok amps as well.. Don't let that little difference make you think they are not the same. PPI, NVX, Polk are all about the same quality and price wise... Good luck hunting on your choice! You gonna go with the PAD4000.4 still?

Last edited by Truekaotik; 08-14-2012 at 1:18 PM.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-14-2012, 1:19 PM Reply   
I'd personally go with a ks300.2 any day of the week. Internal cooling and don't run hot. And Arc's got real people working at a real american HQ that you can call and speak with any time.

(yes of course the electonics are from china... they ALL ARE).

Wetsounds thinks enough of the arc amps to use them for their syn series, after all.

You want an amp with PROVEN balls to go the long haul. I'm just not so sure I'd trust a new player. I know you say you won't be rocking your tower speakers that hard. But that's what we all say.
Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       08-14-2012, 1:51 PM Reply   
You definitely should go with a two-channel amplifier.
I know the JL Audio M/XD four channel was mentioned above and I know these amplifiers very well. These are very clean and conservatively rated amplifiers. The pasmag recently did a review on the XD500/3 and it produced 2 times 140 watts into 2-ohms plus nearly 400 watts on the mono channel. These amplifiers use power supplies that are switching at super high frequencies and will have about twice the circuitry as many other Class D offerings in the same power class. At least in automotive applications, there is a distinct sound quality advantage in the high frequencies and general openness. The MAP price of the XD400/4 is $399 so the value is certainly there.
However, I don't see using a four channel amplifier for four 4-ohm tower speakers. You can bridge the four channels into two channels and series both the left and right speakers for four total conductors up the tower. That will give you the same power as the four times 4-ohm power rating. In some cases that might be just adequate. But if you ever want to change out to HLCDs or a larger speaker in the future, the two channel amplifiers will better fit the bill.

David
Earmark Marine
Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-15-2012, 9:55 AM Reply   
I ended up going with the Polk. Reasons:

- Cost. Scored it for $243 shipped.

- Power and how flexible it will be. I can run all 4 towers in parallel for now, so they will get 100watts each, and run my mid-highs in parallel as well, all off the same amp. When I upgrade my sub, I will do Polk's 5 channel version, as it is 70x4 @ 4-ohm, great for my in-boats, and 1ohm stable for the sub portion @ 500watts; plenty for anything I will want. Then I will run the 4-channel amp with each channel feeding 1 tower, bumping power up to 125 watts/speaker. I think that should be sufficient for my needs.

- These will be the only tower speakers this boat will see. I pretty much stick with components once I purchase them. My Avalanche is rocking the exact same system I put together for it in 2006. Once I pick what I want I don't play the ugprade game a lot...so no reason to "plan for the future" as this will be what I will be using.

- Reviews. A lot of positive on this amp and all the other identical amps to this; Polk, PPI, NVX, Hertz, and Nakamachi all sell a version of this amp. The Hertz and Nakamachi are about impossible to find. PPI is cheaper but are on a national back order. NVX is available but more expensive now, so the Polk is the cheapest that I could find.
Old    Murphy Smith (murphy_smith)      Join Date: Dec 2005       08-15-2012, 10:58 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truekaotik View Post
You'll only get 100 watts out of that 4 channel PPI murphy smith... sorry man.. They are decent amps but have a hearty power supply.. Plus are over "rated" to sell... If your looking for only 100 watts a speaker, the JL 400.4 would be a choice?
Yes, you should be sorry!!!!!
Old     (Truekaotik)      Join Date: Jun 2012       08-15-2012, 11:38 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphy_smith View Post
Yes, you should be sorry!!!!!
LOL yeah the truth sucks sometimes...


Nitrous,
Glad you picked what you wanted and can be happy with that. Good luck on the install and have a great time shredding the waterways

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