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Old     (constructor)      Join Date: Aug 2012       08-08-2012, 10:07 AM Reply   
looking for a new surf rig and if new I have narrowed it down to:

233 enzo
MB 52 V23
Sanger 237

All of these can be had in the mid 60s and I believe if the same weight is used they will all produce a great surf wake. They are all V bottoms. Out of all of them the MB could be weighted more and not be above the rub rail if that much weight is needed.
IMO Centurion graphics are the worst...they really need a design guy.
I like the fact that Sanger already has the 3 trim tabs, something we have had to add in the past.

I'm not really looking at any pickle forks partly because I think a regular bow will resale easier.

What do you guys think about the quality between these 3 boats if the prices are all near the same?

The little V215 Sanger looks like it puts out a great wake for a smaller boat...something to consider.
Thanks
Old    Bill Smeltzer (runin90lx)      Join Date: Sep 2009       08-08-2012, 11:47 AM Reply   
not sure about the enzo, or sanger..but im most likely picking up a 2013 MB 52 widebody in the next couple of weeks. it puts out a nice wakeboard wake, and an avg surf wake stock. ive seen pics of the stock ballast full, and a 750lb sac in back, and 400 lb sac in bow and it makes a nice tall and long surf wave.
Old    Dennis (dennish)      Join Date: May 2005       08-08-2012, 6:36 PM Reply   
Look at the new Sanger V237. It is available from the factory with 1600 # stock ballast each side in back. The V237 is a great surf boat either side. Plenty of freeboard compared to the V215 which I have.
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       08-08-2012, 7:57 PM Reply   
I just sold my 2012 244 and the wave was awesome. As for stock ballast, the 233 comes with 4,500lbs under the seats.

All of these boats are very nice and you cant go wrong. Go test drive them all and you will figure out which one is best for you.
Old    JF (inland_surfer)      Join Date: Aug 2002       08-08-2012, 8:08 PM Reply   
My 2 Cents
My Bro just got his new 2013 233 Enzo, Surf ready. We added a few extra bricks of led and off we went. I was very impressed with the wave when I rode it ! I wanted him to get the 409 PCM but he opted to go with the 343 PCM motor due to his budget , it had no problems what so ever - I was very impressed with the power it had.
cheers, jeff
Old    Tal Cloud (Kingsriver)      Join Date: Aug 2011       08-08-2012, 9:42 PM Reply   
I just bought the 237 LTZ surf edition with the 409 and I could not be happier. Great surf wake on both sides with the trim tabs and stock Ballest you can do everything from single ski, wakeboard and surf with just a few minor changes. The extra room in this years .237 has allowed us to carry up to 17 kids in The boat for cliff jumping and tubing. Send me a PM If you want more info. I was looking at the exact boats you are and I am glad I have a 237 in Front of my house. All great Boats.!!!!!!!!!
Old     (constructor)      Join Date: Aug 2012       08-09-2012, 6:00 AM Reply   
Thanks for the replies. I've been behind Enzo's, Tige's, Supra, Moomba, and Malibu's, some weren't set up as well as they could have been but I can see the V bottom gives a better wake with less weight. I started out thinking Enzo was the only way to go. I know the Enzo is proven but everyone I can find has a weird graphic or color, a red or bright blue dash just doesn't excite me.
IMO the Sanger is the best looking boat but has small lockers for extra bags.
I think I would need to add an extra trim tab or 2 to the MB to clean up the wash. The long blocks are all GM so really the engines should be the same more or less, i don't think it's a factor except that Sanger allows any boat dealer to service their engines. Finding "the" boat has taken long enough I have cash but I don't want to drop it to only to find out I should have purchased the other.
Old    Greg Anderson (ReSession)      Join Date: Apr 2010       08-09-2012, 6:25 AM Reply   
Sorry to be "that" guy and toss in another option...but if you're looking in this price range and you want to surf, have you considered the Supreme V226!
Old    Jay T. (wakebrdjay)      Join Date: Apr 2008       08-09-2012, 7:18 AM Reply   
So,why don't you order an Enzo with the colors and graphics or no graphics that you like?
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       08-09-2012, 7:32 AM Reply   
The MB is also an outstanding wakeboard boat, something to think about down the road for resale. I have this boat surf all plumed in under the seats with one trim tab and it is super clean , long, and has push on both sides. It is / was my 2012 demo with 50+ hours ready to go.
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Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-09-2012, 8:21 AM Reply   
Honestly all 3 boats will be great surf boats with added weight.


Fit and finish of the Sanger is amazing. I think MB is on par or just below. Centurion won't be as nice. The 230 will have the better port size wave with weight. The MB and Sanger will have good-great waves on both sides. Most of the centurion graphics just come off and I agree the tribal crap looks terrible.
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-09-2012, 8:24 AM Reply   
I will also say most newer boats will be good surf boats with enough weight and time spent dialing in the wave you like. I would buy which ever one you get the best deal on.
Old     (constructor)      Join Date: Aug 2012       08-09-2012, 9:50 AM Reply   
Timing and making an effort to return calls put Olinger Marine and Sanger out front. A 2013 black and white 237 with a 420 horse should be here in a few weeks.
Thanks again for your opinions.
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-09-2012, 10:00 AM Reply   
Are you in the CDA area?
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       08-09-2012, 10:37 AM Reply   
[QUOTE=surffresh;1774641]The MB is also an outstanding wakeboard boat, something to think about down the road for resale. /QUOTE]

And you dont think the Enzo or 237 aren't? I doubt that MB has better resale value then the Enzo or 237.

Please go put your demo boat on OnlyInboards and stop shopping it in every thread that comes up. BTW: if your MB is such a great value, why have you not sold it. I just sold my 2012 Enzo 244 in 3 days
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       08-09-2012, 10:43 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by duffymahoney View Post
Honestly all 3 boats will be great surf boats with added weight.


Fit and finish of the Sanger is amazing. I think MB is on par or just below. Centurion won't be as nice. The 230 will have the better port size wave with weight. The MB and Sanger will have good-great waves on both sides. Most of the centurion graphics just come off and I agree the tribal crap looks terrible.
Duffy: he is talking about a 2012 233. I have been in 2012 version of all 3 of the boats mentioned and the 233/244 interior is nicer than the MB/Sanger. The Centurion interior should be because they cost more. You also can not get tribal graphics on a 2012 Enzo.
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       08-09-2012, 10:44 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by duffymahoney View Post
I will also say most newer boats will be good surf boats with enough weight and time spent dialing in the wave you like. I would buy which ever one you get the best deal on.
absolutely. You should be able to get a great wave out of all 3 of these boats.
Old     (constructor)      Join Date: Aug 2012       08-09-2012, 11:37 AM Reply   
Sorry I wasn't looking for a used boat. Several things pushed me toward the Sanger, the looks and I don't have to add the double trim tab setup were 2 big ones.
We've used 2 trim tabs on other boats to flatten the wake to ski as well as helping get one corner low for more wake. Marine- specialties in NV has a new 2012 for $63 but Iiked the graphics of the 2013 at Olinger better. The 420hp is new this year and seems like they added 13" to the cockpit area. We'll see how she looks on the water in a few weeks.

Unrelated- a shop in Knoxville has a Enzo 233 for around 64 but it has tan/ brown coloring on the tops of the seats, they said it was the glue bleeding through because it got too hot sitting in the sun under the cover. Anyone ever heard of that?
Old    Jay T. (wakebrdjay)      Join Date: Apr 2008       08-09-2012, 12:29 PM Reply   
I have a '07 black Supreme that has white interior and with a black cover that has sat in the 25+days of 90+degree heat this summer ,no sign of that happening to mine.
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-09-2012, 12:31 PM Reply   
So you're wanting to waterski a lot? Or is that just a small hobby?
Old     (constructor)      Join Date: Aug 2012       08-09-2012, 1:01 PM Reply   
Sometimes we ski for a few minutes, sometimes others that go with us want to. We have other boats, seadoos,float boat, 30'cruiser but none of us load up to ski for hrs.

As for the bleedthrough I have not either, wasn't sure if it was the cover or the sun doing it but don't want it happening to a new boat.
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       08-09-2012, 1:06 PM Reply   
@ the OP, who makes the new 420 ? I know Sanger offers Merc and Indmar
Old     (constructor)      Join Date: Aug 2012       08-09-2012, 1:09 PM Reply   
This is the boat, I think it will work.

Last edited by constructor; 08-09-2012 at 1:13 PM.
Old     (constructor)      Join Date: Aug 2012       08-09-2012, 1:23 PM Reply   
Indmar 6.0
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       08-09-2012, 1:40 PM Reply   
sic boat. I have always been a big fan of Sanger.
Old    Anthonyv911 (tonyv420)      Join Date: Jul 2007       08-09-2012, 1:49 PM Reply   
thats a nice looking boat! I'm a traditional bow, and tube tower kind of guy tho! Pickles and evo towers, do nothing for me! That 237 is Sic!!!
Old     (constructor)      Join Date: Aug 2012       08-09-2012, 2:01 PM Reply   
Thanks,
it's a trad bow. The side of the tower are machined flat, they fold in to drop the tower.
The only downside I can see is room for sacs, seems like he said 750s would fit in the lockers, already has 1300 factory.
Old    KDA (idaho_hillbilly)      Join Date: Jun 2009       08-09-2012, 2:40 PM Reply   
Where are you from?!?! Your talking about places in Tennessee, Nevada and now your buying a boat in Idaho!

I had a 2008 V237 and I LOVED the boat. I would throw 2 - 400 bags in the surf side locker and it would throw a great wake. BTW: I would also have everyone's jackets in that locker, so it was far from full. Enjoy the new boat. It looks very cool!
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-09-2012, 3:01 PM Reply   
I love chasing a deal as much as the next guy, but if you are buying from a non-local dealer, that's basically buying without a warranty. Good luck getting warranty service from your local dealer with your boat you bought 1000 miles away to save a few bucks.
Old    KDA (idaho_hillbilly)      Join Date: Jun 2009       08-09-2012, 3:13 PM Reply   
I purchased my boat in Portland and the closest Sanger dealer was 400 miles away (before Olinger showed up). We had a couple "new boat" issues and Sanger said find local dealer and they would work out the warranty issues with that dealership. It wasn't as easy as having an actual local Sanger dealer, but we did get warranty work done on our boat.
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-09-2012, 3:22 PM Reply   
North Idaho love!! It's always fun to go check out all the boats olinger has in stock.
Old    Tal Cloud (Kingsriver)      Join Date: Aug 2011       08-09-2012, 3:40 PM Reply   
Love that Blue MB. I would of been very close on a MB if my dealer would of had any in stock. One thing i am gald I spent the extra money on is the bigger engine. When we are riding with a full crew at 5500'. Good Luck
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Old    KDA (idaho_hillbilly)      Join Date: Jun 2009       08-09-2012, 4:23 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by duffymahoney View Post
North Idaho love!! It's always fun to go check out all the boats olinger has in stock.
North Idaho guys...we are the few and we ride COLD water!

I'm not exactly a fan of Olinger...they are kind of arrogant jerks (IMO), but it's sure nice having a Sanger dealership in the area. They should get a commission on the sell of my V237. I had 3 guys trying to see who was fastest to get to my house to buy it and all three had been to Olinger to look at the new V237.
Old    KDA (idaho_hillbilly)      Join Date: Jun 2009       08-09-2012, 4:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingsriver View Post
Love that Blue MB. I would of been very close on a MB if my dealer would of had any in stock. One thing i am gald I spent the extra money on is the bigger engine. When we are riding with a full crew at 5500'. Good Luck
Sweet looking V237! We had 19 in ours last summer and everyone had a seat! We did have 5 little dudes, but still it's amazing how many people those boats hold!
Old     (constructor)      Join Date: Aug 2012       08-10-2012, 6:25 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
I love chasing a deal as much as the next guy, but if you are buying from a non-local dealer, that's basically buying without a warranty. Good luck getting warranty service from your local dealer with your boat you bought 1000 miles away to save a few bucks.


Chasing a deal? I have been chasing the right boat. I've looked at a lot of boats and most turned out to be not what I wanted, there was always something, wrong color, bad graphics, local guy with high prices...Someone that was trying out a boat hit the trailer and took a 3" chunk out of the hull, boat dealer didn't tell me until after I drove 2 hrs to look at the boat. Another advertised "New" boat really had 70 hrs on it. Another new boat interior had huge brown stains that would not come off bla bla bla, Missed a few boats by days, they may have been perfect...maybe not. A friend purchased a used boat from a dealer took it out on the second weekend and sunk it. Turns out the previous owner had hit a log and cracked the hull at the front fin. On the second trip the fin ripped completely out of the boat. 6" long hole so it went down pretty quick with nothing but the tip of the bow showing. I wanted new, not someones problem boat. I know there may still be problems on a new boat but shouldn't be as many if you remove owner inflicted damages and neglect.
When I talked to the guy at Olinger he said Sanger would allow a reputable boat shop to work on their boats. This boat is being shipped straight from the Sanger factory to me so there shouldn't be any damages. I know how the dealers in Pueblo are and wouldn't take anything to any of them. The way some dealers run their business is what made me look at other brands.
I raced off road for several years building my own rigs from the ground up, I can rebuild Gen III chevys easy. . A complete new long block is only about $4000...not near as much as everyone thinks they are. Pumps or switches are cheap and easy I can take care of any small stuff my self it's not that big of a deal. If an engine blows at 50 hrs then sure I'll call Sanger but it's not the end of the world just a little delay.

KDA,
I have a place in southern Colorado about 3 miles from a smaller lake maybe 6 miles long...not much water there and what is was snow about 2 weeks earlier so it's pretty cold. We have a place on the lake here around Knoxville tn where there are big warm lakes everywhere.
Old    KDA (idaho_hillbilly)      Join Date: Jun 2009       08-10-2012, 8:00 AM Reply   
Sanger will help you out if you have trouble with your boat. I'm on my 4th Sanger and all my dealings with them have been great. It must be pretty refreshing jumping in the lake in Colorado after playing in the bath water of TN most of the summer!

Enjoy the new boat!
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       08-10-2012, 3:17 PM Reply   
I just got a call from a guy that bought a Supreme from Olinger, he found my post from a while back, anyhow he is a man without a paddle now and will be posting if something does not change. Just like Shawn said, this guy has a Indmar and the local Bu dealer whacked him $400 for a oil change / first service followed by some verbal lashing....why did you not buy from us?
Old    Eric Silva (getssum)      Join Date: Jul 2005       08-10-2012, 3:41 PM Reply   
Sounds like the local Bu dealer is a little pissed and has his feelings hurt to see a Supreme in his lot. That kind of stuff kills me I have NO idea why these dealers aren't happy to have ANY boat to service and charge for. $400 for an oil change? Hell I could have bought an AWESOME vacuum pump, LOTS of oil, couple of impellers and a whole stash of great oil filters (no fram crap) and been under 400$.

Really hope Indmar and Supreme/Kal Kustoms step up to the plate for that guy as Indmar is the choice of MOST mfg's these days!
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-10-2012, 4:43 PM Reply   
my point wasn't about catastrophic engine failure... more about the kinks that all new boats have... minor upholstery issues, gauge glitches, gel issues, parts that break too soon, etc.

I'm afraid you'll find that a non-selling dealer won't be jumping up and down to fix that kind of stuff. Which essentially means you don't get the "full" warranty that you'd get from a local dealer. Which is fine... but the boat should be priced accordingly.

That's all I'm saying.

(my own dealer is 120 miles away, and there are LOTS of little things I've let go / fixed myself because it doesn't make sense to drive 4 hours round trip to drop it off and another 4 hours to pick it up later.... gas alone would be over $120 not to mention value of my time)
Old    David Griffith (davidggriffith)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-10-2012, 10:35 PM Reply   
Dennis where did you hear that the 237 has 1600 lbs of ballast? I've been talking with a dealer by me and they say you can only get 1300 lbs from the factory
Old    Tal Cloud (Kingsriver)      Join Date: Aug 2011       08-15-2012, 8:17 PM Reply   
700 center and 2 450 in rear We added a 750# fat sack and get a great wave.
Old    Tom N (SangerTom)      Join Date: Aug 2010       08-15-2012, 10:58 PM Reply   
Nice pictures of the boat Tal. Wish I had taken them....lol. It is an awesome boat. Light years from the 05 Sanger I have. It spoiled me. I want one.
Old    KDA (idaho_hillbilly)      Join Date: Jun 2009       08-15-2012, 11:55 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidggriffith View Post
Dennis where did you hear that the 237 has 1600 lbs of ballast? I've been talking with a dealer by me and they say you can only get 1300 lbs from the factory
Stock ballast in a V237 is 600 lbs in the front and 350lbs in the corners. Threw two 400lbs bags in the surf side locker and the wake was great. It could have taken a ton more weight, the platform was only 4-5" in the water!
Old     (constructor)      Join Date: Aug 2012       08-17-2012, 12:48 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by idaho_hillbilly View Post
North Idaho guys...we are the few and we ride COLD water!

I'm not exactly a fan of Olinger...they are kind of arrogant jerks (IMO), but it's sure nice having a Sanger dealership in the area. They should get a commission on the sell of my V237. I had 3 guys trying to see who was fastest to get to my house to buy it and all three had been to Olinger to look at the new V237.
Well he talked a good game while trying to sell the boat but doesn't want to talk much after he got the money. Said he shipped all over the country but I believe they find a "guy with a truck" and let the customer deal with the truck driver and take the risk. Disappointing after handing them 70000 cash.
Hopefully the boat makes up for the dealer.
Old     (constructor)      Join Date: Aug 2012       08-17-2012, 12:50 PM Reply   
double tap
Old    KDA (idaho_hillbilly)      Join Date: Jun 2009       08-17-2012, 10:45 PM Reply   
Sorry to hear that! Hopefully the boat makes it out alright.

I do know the boat will not disappoint!
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       08-24-2012, 6:17 PM Reply   
@ constructor, so where are you now, do you have the boat?
Old     (constructor)      Join Date: Aug 2012       08-24-2012, 7:49 PM Reply   
Yes, changed drivers again. I met the driver about midnight last night 3 hours away.
The driver normally flat tows Supra, Moomba, Malibu, Axis and Sea Ray's from Tennessee to the west coast so this was a good return haul for him.
I come from a large commercial const background, moving by semi is a normal thing...flat towing across country is a new thing and not sure a good one. 1 trailer running light wire shorted out so he couldn't drive. I took a wiring harness and fixed the trailer at midnight so I could get it home. The tires are well worn and rubber splattered all over the tower and sides of the boat. They did wrap it very well so no damage to the boat, the tower just needed some cleaning.
Took it out today for a test run, smoothest riding boat I think I have ever seen, world of difference from a Wakesetter. Cruising around at 28-30mph the Indmar 420 used 8 GPH.
The 237 has a middle stationary tab and 2 Bennett's so tuning the wake to remove the wash was easy. This boat was 1 week away from being finished, good timing, it was new, looked good and the price was right.
In the end I got a 2013 with a 420 horse and no hours for what some are asking for used 2012s
Old    Tarek Richey (tarek)      Join Date: Jun 2011       08-24-2012, 10:55 PM Reply   
We picked up the MB Line a few years back. Right now our lines are Mastercraft, Nautique, and MB. We have done close to 30 brand new MB's for 2012.. mostly 21s, a few 23's, and a few of the new 24's. 4 out of 5 customers usually buy a tomcat over the B52.

No dicker sticker we were selling 2012 21 foot MB's for $53995 loaded.

1800 lbs of Ballast that empties and fills in just minutes is pretty hard to beat with a solid wakeboard and surf wake both sides....

One crazy thing about the boat business.. we have customers who have the cash to buy new M.C. and Nautique boats... but dont see the value of the addtiondal $30 to $40k in boat bling and are buying into the MB line even though they thought they were diehard M.C. and Nautique guys.
Old     (constructor)      Join Date: Aug 2012       08-25-2012, 6:29 AM Reply   
That is a good price for the MB, what about the V23 and where are you located?
As I said before I started thinking an Enzo was the only surf boat to buy but after several misses on deals I saw the MB F23 and V23, I thought the F23 would be hard to resale with the picklefork but the V23 had a lot of promise, deep side for extra weight, a lot of factory ballast to begin with.
The MB dealer in Knox and tri cities wanted $59k for an 08 F23 with 200+ hrs on it.
I made a lower offer, they said they sold it but 2 months later it's still on the lot. Texas MC didn't return a call they should have since I had $70,000 in my pocket and would have drove down there to get it that day.
Good dealers sell all over the country and I don't mind buying one and having it shipped if it's what I want.
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       09-01-2012, 7:30 AM Reply   
Shadrack in Knox and Tri Cities WERE the TN MB dealers, JCP is the TN dealer and I believe you looked at his blowout demo 2012 23V. GOOD DEALERS do NOT sell in other dealers territory, probably explains the no call back. Kind of crazy that you would look at a discontinued 08 F23 for the same price as JCP's loaded 2012 with new warrantees.
Old     (constructor)      Join Date: Aug 2012       09-02-2012, 9:12 AM Reply   
I was looking at boats a few years old but after seeing the shape most were in and comparing prices I decided new was the way to go. That 2008 they had was the first MB I had ever looked at, I knew that f23 was a high dollar boat with a 409, 2 sp tranny twin subs and 6 tower speakers but 60k was too much for a 4 year old boat with 200hrs on it and floating beer in the cooler. It had not been cleaned since the last outing. The guy in JC advertised that boat as new. It had 70 hrs on it, lockers full of vest, the glove compartment crammed full of personal items, soft cooler full of beer. Seems like both of them would have made the boats ready for sale. If MB dealers want to believe a boat with 70 hrs on it is new then go right ahead but don't try to make the rest of us believe it. If you want to use the boats as your own personal recreation for a year and then sell them so it doesn't cost you anything to have and use a new boat every year and can find people to buy them after you are finished with it go for it. I'm not the one that will go for it and by the looks of it it isn't going too well trying to find someone to buy the boat you've been using. Visiting the MB dealers around here is what made me decide to look elsewhere.
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       09-02-2012, 11:22 AM Reply   
over 10 grand off for 70 hrs, sounds like a good trade off to me.....

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