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Old    Jut (robertsjut)      Join Date: Jul 2009       08-06-2012, 7:14 PM Reply   
Hey guys,

Can you please give me your input....

I have found a couple of boats and now try to decide....

Which has better wake? Surfwake? Etc.

Thanks
Old    Hate2party (slipknot)      Join Date: Aug 2001       08-07-2012, 7:18 AM Reply   
I would put my money on the MB. I can almost guarantee the wake is better on all fronts as compared to a Avalanche. I'm biased needless to say.

You need to demo the boats, just like every other thread on here asks for boat comparisons. Try before you buy is the old saying. I on the other hand did not demo my MB because I took the word of some insane wake riders and instructors. I could not be happier with my decision 2 years later.

Good luck with your purchase and have fun.

Last edited by slipknot; 08-07-2012 at 7:22 AM.
Old    Fred (fredlap)      Join Date: Jul 2008       08-07-2012, 7:27 AM Reply   
No contest! MB all the way!
Old    Pete (petrey10)      Join Date: Apr 2010       08-07-2012, 7:34 AM Reply   
really? Cause Im pretty sure the Avy's surf wave is epic......... i really am asking bc I haven't been behind either
Old    Troy Deschamps (TroyD)      Join Date: Jan 2012       08-07-2012, 8:07 AM Reply   
My advice is not to take the advice from anyone on WW regarding this question. There is a huge MB bias here plus a bunch of guys that are getting paid to promote the boat here.

Ride each boat and make a decision. For what it's worth, Centurion makes the best surf wave, period!
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       08-07-2012, 8:16 AM Reply   
wakeboard behind both, one is the clear winner
Old    Ian Brown (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       08-07-2012, 8:43 AM Reply   
DISCLAIMER - I get a promo from MB. I agree with Drew though. Demo both and you come back and tell us (since you are not... as Troy says "paid to promote the brand on this board".) By the way, who is getting paid? This post has to be worth a few bucks at least.
Old    Hate2party (slipknot)      Join Date: Aug 2001       08-07-2012, 8:52 AM Reply   
Show me the money then! I am not paid, just honest. I wish I could see some of the money though. Funny how the MB owners who posted all said try both boats. "we are so biased aren't we?" The MB may be too big for the guy anyways. He will know if he tries the boat wont he? Drew is correct in saying One is the clear winner.
Old     (Truekaotik)      Join Date: Jun 2012       08-07-2012, 8:59 AM Reply   
Avalanche c4 all the way... Nothing can beat the surf wave... The wakeboard wave is better as well... Also the gladiator tower makes it look way sexier than any boat /tower cOmbo Out!!! It's just a better boat hands down....
Old    Scott R (ScottR)      Join Date: Aug 2011       08-07-2012, 9:03 AM Reply   
Why does MB get the "don't listen to them" rap. I own and MB, yeah I love it. I am not getting paid from them, so is my opinion less cuz I own one? That is why people come here, to ask what someone else's opinion is. I think what he is asking is "tell me about your boat if you own one of these"

I love my MB and have fallen in love with the surf wave that it produces. I love the fit and finish of my brand compared to others. I can't compare it to what you are comparing it to, since I have never stepped foot in a Avy, but I have heard many great things. As most on here, I agree to demo if you can. I could not and still ended up loving my boat. If you can't demo get "opinions" of people who have the boats you are looking at. I am sure they will tell you the good and the bad. I will give you something I wish they would change about the 2012 MB. I am not a huge fan of the way the tower folds down. You have to make sure the racks are out, and it is quite heavy with Speaker up there. I wish they would have put it on some sort of hindge or something to help you lower it down. Again just an opinion but I think that is what you are wanting.

Last edited by ScottR; 08-07-2012 at 9:04 AM. Reason: y
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       08-07-2012, 10:11 AM Reply   
The Avy has a killer wakeboard wake and a sweet surf wake. The Avy has a very very steep wake and a very meaty factory wake that just gets better with weight.

The surf wake was the most sought after surf wake until the Enzo. It was the bar back then an is still one of the top in the business.

The Avy will be a big more sensitive in side to side wakeboarding wake as it has a super deep v hull. It will cut through the chop like no other and is rock solid in its ICS construction. It's is reinforced everywhere with next to zero flex and rattle.

Fit and finish I think is equal from MB to Centurion and both are above average quality boats.
Old    Troy Deschamps (TroyD)      Join Date: Jan 2012       08-07-2012, 10:45 AM Reply   
Just wanted the OP to know that some people's opinions are biased.

As a Nautique guy I'd say Avy hands down. The MB will require more weight as well.
Old    Diggs (pdxWAKE) (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       08-07-2012, 11:02 AM Reply   
DISCLAIMER: I am a Supra owner and have Supra goggles...... I am not paid though.... How do we get that????? I want in!!

My own opinion thinks the MB interior is nicer and and looks better. This goes for the new 2012's. The Centurion will have a better surf wave from what I hear, but would think the MB would have a better wakeboard wake. I really just wanted to chime in cause I don't have a lot of experience with either, but as everyone says, go and drive them and hang out in them. You can't make a wrong decision if you have tested them both out and you will be happy with whatever you pick. The reality is all of the manufacturers in this industry build an awesome boat and keep up with each other to stay competitive. You will be stoked with whatever you get and we will want pics.
Old    Anthonyv911 (tonyv420)      Join Date: Jul 2007       08-07-2012, 11:55 AM Reply   
I love my Avy wave (surfing) but I really like the MB interior! Never been behind a MB, except for a wakeboarding session, and the wake was sick! You probably need to ride behind both and form you own opinion.
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       08-07-2012, 12:11 PM Reply   
I can only comment on the Avy, I have never been on an MB

The Avy will have a top 5 surf wave (top 5 of ANY size boat on the market) and the wake board wake is very good. It needs less weight than other boats because of its deep V hull. The deep V hull also gives it a great ride in rough water. The negative to a deep V is that it will be a little sensitive to weight (side to side) and will not be as responsive to steering as say a Bu. The Avy also has a ton of storage and room for a 22ft boat.

Starting in 2010, the fit and finish on the Centurions has gotten much better. The 2012 fit and finish is nearly on par with the Bu/MC/CC.

Good luck. As all of said, test drive both and you will get it figured out.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       08-07-2012, 12:40 PM Reply   
My opinion, which isn't worth squat.

Fit and finish-no real clear winner here although although if you are talking about 2010's the Avy has snap out carpet and I don't think the MB did.
Looks-I think the avy has better overall lines but it is all personal preference. Obviously one is a picklefork and the other a traditional bow.I like the bigger sunpad of the avy. It looks muc hmore in proportion to me.
Rough water Ride-Both have deep V's all the way to the transom so should be similar.
Wakeboard wake-Both are good with stock ballast although the Avy is somewhat finicky side to side. The MB will be bigger because of the extra ballast. The Avy will be good with not much weight in it.
Surf wake-Both are very good but the Avy has the edge here. By all accounts it is one of the best surf boats ever, on both sides.
interior seating-MB wins this by quite a bit even though it is a foot shorter.
Interior depth-Avy wins this easy. The avy has tall seat bases and tall seat backs. The MB is somewhat shallow inside, especially for the amount of freeboard.
Storage space-with no ballast the Avy should have more. With ballast full the MB will because the MB's ballast is under teh floor and the Avy has above floor ballast tanks/bags(at least in the vdrive compartments).


Honestly, both would be awesome boats to own. I would love to have either. Both are good in wakeboard wake(although MB is probably better), surf wake(slight edge to Avy), both are good in rough water and both have similar fit and finish. I think the biggest things in the decision are the styling, if you like the interior seating and if you liek the ballast system on the MB vs the Avy.
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       08-08-2012, 5:02 AM Reply   
Enough of the BS, here are clear facts, I had an 07 Avy and was working with Centurion at the time. They asked me to bring it to Daytona for the 500. There is a big pond on the back stretch. We had about 8 pro level wakeboarders riding behind my boat several days. They were all real nice and were stoked to be there but not stoked on the wake, it was clear as day to see it washing on one side. I asked one rider that was sponsored by Centurion back in the day and he confirmed that it was not fixable, he took sledge hammers to the track fins, weighted, anything and everything on different year Avys and all were the same. The surf wake was good but I felt like the only way to make the surf wake huge was to add a switchblade and really that was like lighting the house on fire to make toast, what a pain that was. So a few of the riders that I made friends with have ridden my Tomcats and all love the wake. Back to surfing, I have a Swiss customer that comes over and rides 2 times a year, he has a 230 Enzo with a switchblade and weighs in at about 260. He pulled his first ever 360 behind one of my Tomcats and says the wave has more push than his. I will put a Tomcat up against any 21 or 22 foot boat out there and it's only fair to put a MB 23 against any 23 or 24 with close to even weight for surfing and stock for wakeboarding. I can use a little extra $$ so that is why I wrote this post. Yes I am a MB dealer and I approve this post. In all seriousness , ride / surf both, enjoy and I hope that both sellers know what they are doing so their product is represented to it's fullest potential.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       08-08-2012, 6:55 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by surffresh View Post
Enough of the BS, here are clear facts, I had an 07 Avy and was working with Centurion at the time. They asked me to bring it to Daytona for the 500. There is a big pond on the back stretch. We had about 8 pro level wakeboarders riding behind my boat several days. They were all real nice and were stoked to be there but not stoked on the wake, it was clear as day to see it washing on one side. I asked one rider that was sponsored by Centurion back in the day and he confirmed that it was not fixable, he took sledge hammers to the track fins, weighted, anything and everything on different year Avys and all were the same. The surf wake was good but I felt like the only way to make the surf wake huge was to add a switchblade and really that was like lighting the house on fire to make toast, what a pain that was. So a few of the riders that I made friends with have ridden my Tomcats and all love the wake. Back to surfing, I have a Swiss customer that comes over and rides 2 times a year, he has a 230 Enzo with a switchblade and weighs in at about 260. He pulled his first ever 360 behind one of my Tomcats and says the wave has more push than his. I will put a Tomcat up against any 21 or 22 foot boat out there and it's only fair to put a MB 23 against any 23 or 24 with close to even weight for surfing and stock for wakeboarding. I can use a little extra $$ so that is why I wrote this post. Yes I am a MB dealer and I approve this post. In all seriousness , ride / surf both, enjoy and I hope that both sellers know what they are doing so their product is represented to it's fullest potential.
Shenanigans, I've been on an 03 Avalanche, no wash, 75' 23, 80' 24... stock ballast with extra 300s in the rear maybe, 6-10 ppl in the boat, a small sack or 2 up front... I'm no pro, so I don't know how they were weighting theirs, but I know wash, and it was clean...
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       08-08-2012, 7:02 AM Reply   
That being said, if I was looking newer, I'd keep MB in mind, but I don't like the tomcats... and unfortunately there is no dealer network up in the northeast I am aware of...
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       08-08-2012, 7:05 AM Reply   
Im just laughing thinking about riders taking sledgehammers to tracking fins in an effort to reduce wash...
Old     (TheSqueakyWheel)      Join Date: Oct 2010       08-08-2012, 7:50 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroyD View Post
Just wanted the OP to know that some people's opinions are biased.
Captain Obvious, you get a medal. Your opinion is biased as well.

I'd like to know who these "paid MB" people are - aside from Ian, who runs the site and is forthcoming about his ties, I think you're full of sh#t
Old    Hate2party (slipknot)      Join Date: Aug 2001       08-08-2012, 8:40 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSqueakyWheel View Post
Captain Obvious, you get a medal. Your opinion is biased as well.

I'd like to know who these "paid MB" people are - aside from Ian, who runs the site and is forthcoming about his ties, I think you're full of sh#t

seems like it, yea who are these so called Paid MB people you are refering to?
Old    Troy Deschamps (TroyD)      Join Date: Jan 2012       08-08-2012, 10:12 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSqueakyWheel View Post
Captain Obvious, you get a medal. Your opinion is biased as well.

I'd like to know who these "paid MB" people are - aside from Ian, who runs the site and is forthcoming about his ties, I think you're full of sh#t
Their identities are pretty obvious, you know who I'm talking about, the random guy with zero posts who happened to take an MB for a test ride and loved every single aspect of it. The talking points are always the same, they love the ballast and without fail they love having analog gauges and don't need all that "fancy extra bling."

Your defense of MB is admirable and I'm sure the money is being used to feed your family but the reality is that your transparency is so obvious as to ***** the entire brand if not Wakeworld in general.

Now I don't mind you making a mockery of all things MB but please don't drag down the entire forum with your MB mercenary-ism.
Old    Troy Deschamps (TroyD)      Join Date: Jan 2012       08-08-2012, 10:19 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by slipknot View Post
seems like it, yea who are these so called Paid MB people you are refering to?
Allow me to elucidate for you so that your pea-sized brain inside your sloped forehead can understand.

These paid MB guys are like ninjas, in one day and out the next. Some create fake personas with multiple post counts, some will kill an active poster and assume their ID, and some are sophisticated hackers running high-tech code breaking software.

But they all share a common theme. The love graphics that belong on the tatoo of a high-school football player. They hate touch screens, and they have an insatiable desire to have the longest pickle forks imaginable. They like 4-point towers, analog gauges, and hate all things Malibu, Nautique, or Mastercraft.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       08-08-2012, 10:29 AM Reply   
Yea, so what boat do you have troy? You talk a lot of crap man, you ruin numerous threads with your muddy shyt. You've got 200 posts in 7 months, most of them garbage. Hate2play has less than 1600 in 11 years, your volume is over twice as high and your content is nada. I just can't stand the ridiculousness you spew, hate has contributed to this board for a long time, honest opinions, good info, I've been here as long as him. You're nobody. And so what if he gets good deals on MBs, doesn't mean he gets paid to promote. Go away Troyll.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       08-08-2012, 10:39 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroyD View Post
Allow me to elucidate for you so that your pea-sized brain inside your sloped forehead can understand.

These paid MB guys are like ninjas, in one day and out the next. Some create fake personas with multiple post counts, some will kill an active poster and assume their ID, and some are sophisticated hackers running high-tech code breaking software.

But they all share a common theme. The love graphics that belong on the tatoo of a high-school football player. They hate touch screens, and they have an insatiable desire to have the longest pickle forks imaginable. They like 4-point towers, analog gauges, and hate all things Malibu, Nautique, or Mastercraft.
Let's see some examples. The only people that I know of that aren't just MB owners are Surffresh who sells them and Ian who gets one for onlyinboards every year. Those guys have both been on this site and post a lot.

Yes there are lots of guys who like MB's. Guess what they bring some great things to the table and none of the crap you don't need. Personally I like most of the stuff they are doing but still like some other boats better.

You continually ruin every thread started about a boat whether it be trying to troll for bites from Mhunter(whether it be a thread about nautique or mastercraft) and everytime someone mentions anything about an MB you come in whining like a 3rd grader. It is getting really old man.
Old    Hate2party (slipknot)      Join Date: Aug 2001       08-08-2012, 11:58 AM Reply   
Troy doesn't even own a boat guys. I love Malibus, Mastercrafts, Nautiques, I just can't afford them. Troy knows all there is to know about wake, so if you guys need anything, please ask him.. For I am a slopehead he told me. I cant compete with the personal attacks over a boat. Crawl back under the rock from where you came kid. Yea, help sell MB's but its own my own. I dont get paid. After this boat the I will own my third Malibu. Smoke that one.
Old     (TheSqueakyWheel)      Join Date: Oct 2010       08-08-2012, 12:54 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroyD View Post

Your defense of MB is admirable and I'm sure the money is being used to feed your family but the reality is that your transparency is so obvious as to ***** the entire brand if not Wakeworld in general.

Now I don't mind you making a mockery of all things MB but please don't drag down the entire forum with your MB mercenary-ism.
Defense of MB? funny stuff there Troy..... I don't think you'll find many posts by me "defending MB"
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       08-08-2012, 8:03 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by surffresh View Post
Enough of the BS, here are clear facts, I had an 07 Avy and was working with Centurion at the time. They asked me to bring it to Daytona for the 500. There is a big pond on the back stretch. We had about 8 pro level wakeboarders riding behind my boat several days. They were all real nice and were stoked to be there but not stoked on the wake, it was clear as day to see it washing on one side. I asked one rider that was sponsored by Centurion back in the day and he confirmed that it was not fixable, he took sledge hammers to the track fins, weighted, anything and everything on different year Avys and all were the same. The surf wake was good but I felt like the only way to make the surf wake huge was to add a switchblade and really that was like lighting the house on fire to make toast, what a pain that was. So a few of the riders that I made friends with have ridden my Tomcats and all love the wake. Back to surfing, I have a Swiss customer that comes over and rides 2 times a year, he has a 230 Enzo with a switchblade and weighs in at about 260. He pulled his first ever 360 behind one of my Tomcats and says the wave has more push than his. I will put a Tomcat up against any 21 or 22 foot boat out there and it's only fair to put a MB 23 against any 23 or 24 with close to even weight for surfing and stock for wakeboarding. I can use a little extra $$ so that is why I wrote this post. Yes I am a MB dealer and I approve this post. In all seriousness , ride / surf both, enjoy and I hope that both sellers know what they are doing so their product is represented to it's fullest potential.
Your are so full of shi*t. You sell a different boat every year. What boat will you be running through next year? When I first came on WW you told me Centurion was the best thing since sliced bread, then it was Supreme and now it is MB. You have as much credibility giving boat advice as my 3 year old daughter.

Note: I actually like MB and own Centurions. Both will make great boats. Just test drive and you will figure out which one you like.

Last edited by lakesurfer; 08-08-2012 at 8:09 PM.
Old    Troy Deschamps (TroyD)      Join Date: Jan 2012       08-08-2012, 10:00 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakebordr11 View Post
Yea, so what boat do you have troy? You talk a lot of crap man, you ruin numerous threads with your muddy shyt. You've got 200 posts in 7 months, most of them garbage. Hate2play has less than 1600 in 11 years, your volume is over twice as high and your content is nada. I just can't stand the ridiculousness you spew, hate has contributed to this board for a long time, honest opinions, good info, I've been here as long as him. You're nobody. And so what if he gets good deals on MBs, doesn't mean he gets paid to promote. Go away Troyll.
Haha another slack-jawed yokel who takes my posts seriously.

Troyll? Legit!
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       08-09-2012, 8:49 AM Reply   
Well Robert, how's the search going? You haven't responded yet so I didn't know if you got anything meaningful from the 2 threads you started or if you're still shopping or...?
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       08-09-2012, 8:56 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakebordr11 View Post
Well Robert, how's the search going? You haven't responded yet so I didn't know if you got anything meaningful from the 2 threads you started or if you're still shopping or...?
My search for a unbiased opinion is on going.Actually it will probably never end. As everyone has some bias in their opinion. Myself included.
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       08-09-2012, 12:13 PM Reply   
@JKW , I guess the last time you posted the same BS about me your daughter was born and you said you were cranky going through cabin fever at the inlaws house, whatever makes you feel better bro
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       08-09-2012, 2:04 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by surffresh View Post
@JKW , I guess the last time you posted the same BS about me your daughter was born and you said you were cranky going through cabin fever at the inlaws house, whatever makes you feel better bro
Good luck selling your MB and let me know what boat you decide to try and hawk next year. I am sure it will be the next best thing since sliced bread and MB will all of sudden suck.

Last edited by lakesurfer; 08-09-2012 at 2:08 PM.
Old    Jut (robertsjut)      Join Date: Jul 2009       08-09-2012, 2:23 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakebordr11 View Post
Well Robert, how's the search going? You haven't responded yet so I didn't know if you got anything meaningful from the 2 threads you started or if you're still shopping or...?
Still shopping..... I wish this was easier! Have looked at 2006 Centurion Lighting C4 -30k, 2008 Centurion Air Warrior Falcon -35k, 2011 MB Sport Tomcat F21 -48k, and 2010 Centurion Avalanche -50K.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       08-09-2012, 2:26 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
My search for a unbiased opinion is on going.Actually it will probably never end. As everyone has some bias in their opinion. Myself included.
why?
Old     (TheSqueakyWheel)      Join Date: Oct 2010       08-09-2012, 5:43 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertsjut View Post
Still shopping..... I wish this was easier! Have looked at 2006 Centurion Lighting C4 -30k, 2008 Centurion Air Warrior Falcon -35k, 2011 MB Sport Tomcat F21 -48k, and 2010 Centurion Avalanche -50K.
I can't tell you which is best, as I haven't been in all of them.

But my neighbor has a 2012 Tomcat F21. He had a custom 1400 lb bag plumbed in to the locker. His surf wave is amazing.

good luck....
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       08-09-2012, 6:35 PM Reply   
well you said your budget was 30-35... looks like you're going above that, eh? That tomcat for 48 sounds pretty nice!
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       08-09-2012, 6:58 PM Reply   
@ the OP, if you are coming up to those #'s here are a few points, in 12 MB left Skylon speakers, clarion amp, and went with all wet sounds, made a new top deck with tons of new attitude on the front, took out the glued in carpet and went with magnetic drop in, added a floor drain, and a few other things, with that said if you are financing some of your new ride your interest rate would be much more favorable on a new boat if you could find the right one for only a few K more than the 11 or the 10 Avy for that matter
Old    Jon Hunter (hunter660)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-09-2012, 7:59 PM Reply   
It would have to be one HECK of a deal for me to buy a '11 Tomcat over a '12.
Old    Bruizza (bruizza)      Join Date: May 2009       08-09-2012, 8:27 PM Reply   
Definitely find a 12 MB if you go MB. My local dealer has one MB left a 21 WB and they want 54k. That extra 6k or so is well worth it for a 12 over an 11. I've never been in a centurion avalanche so I can't help you there. My brother has a 12 23 TWB and it is an amazing boat for the price. Spend as much time as you can in both boats and go from there. Take your GF, Wife, FiancÚ, best friend or whoever you trust and value their opinion with you and go through the boats and make a good informed decision.

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