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Old    Nick Heckerson (kstateskier)      Join Date: May 2002       08-05-2012, 2:24 PM Reply   
I'm looking at '12 Touaregs and both the TDI and VR6 look to have the same 7700lb tow capacity. Does anyone have any experience towing a wake boat with the VR6? I know the TDI is more than capable, but with the 0% for 72 months, the VR6 is a little more appealing.

A little backstory of what I'm looking for. We are going to have to replace my fiancée's SUV soon and she wants a 4Runner, but I would personally prefer if we are going to buy an SUV that we buy something that it at least capable of towing a boat and the 4 Runner is maxed at 5000lb. She does not want a full size SUV as a daily driver and I really don't want to have to buy a 4Runner and another vehicle that is capable of pulling a boat. Currently it would be minimal towing as we don't have a boat, but soon a plan on purchasing a 21'ish wake boat. Most of our towing would be less than 30 minutes, but probably a few 4+ hour trips.
Old    Todd (antoddio)      Join Date: Dec 2006       08-05-2012, 3:30 PM Reply   
280hp isn't bad but has only 265 ft/lbs of torque It will get the job done but not be fantastic. The V6 4runner actually has more torque and only slightly less HP. Tow ratings to some extent are made up. At least a few years ago the VW V6 wasn't looked upon well for towing.
Old    Adam R (wakecumberland)      Join Date: Oct 2007       08-05-2012, 5:06 PM Reply   
If you want that vehicle, you want the TDI.
Old    WaterBullDawg (WaterBullDawg)      Join Date: Mar 2010       08-05-2012, 6:15 PM Reply   
The TDI will be my next vehicle at the end of the year. I currently have the V8. Tows it effortlessly. Nor sure about the V6 but a close friend tows his Supra with a Porsche Cayenne (sp?) in the 6 cylinder version and it tows fine. As a disclaimer he tows it only about 20 miles round trip over fairly flat roads. But he does this at least twice a week for about 20 weeks a year.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Old     (insuranceman)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-06-2012, 5:30 AM Reply   
i bought a 2012 Touareg tdi last week. tows great and went on a 400 mile trip yesterday without the boat and got 28 mpg. could not be more pleased. they do have 0% 60 month financing right now on the tdi's.

i got rid of a 06 landcruiser and there is no comparison between the two when it comes to towing.
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Old    Tim (srock)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-06-2012, 11:09 AM Reply   
The 06 landcruiser is a much different beast compared to the 08 and after. Much bigger engine. I had the Sequoia with large V8 and it was a wonderful tow vehicle.

I am replacing that vehicle and Nick I understand your situation. If you do not want a large SUV you are stuck in the 5000 tow rating unless you look at the VW or a Mercedes. I have considered the 4Runner, Explorer and Acadia and all seem a little anemic. The explorer is coming out with a much larger engine choice but the same 5000# towing capacity. That would get the job done. I wish Toytoa would stick a larger engine option into the 4Runner. It may happen with a redesigned Highlander in 2014.

Remember, the key is to compare torque not horsepower.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       08-06-2012, 2:05 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by srock View Post
Remember, the key is to compare torque not horsepower.
which is essentially moot if you don't have the towing capacity
Old     (insuranceman)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-06-2012, 4:24 PM Reply   
tim, i agree the 08 and newer sequoia and land cruiser's with the larger engine tow great. still drink a lot of fuel. i had a 08 sequoia before the cruiser.
Old    James Taylor (Vxmine)      Join Date: Jan 2012       08-06-2012, 7:56 PM Reply   
Also, don't forget LR 3s & 4s. 7700 lb capacity, unprecedented offroad capability, and fits in my garage.

I tow a 2006 tige 24v and my LR3 fairs pretty well, well except for 10mpg!

I like the Touregs though, good luck.
Old    Nick Heckerson (kstateskier)      Join Date: May 2002       08-06-2012, 8:24 PM Reply   
What's the Rover reliability like these days? I'm be lying if I didn't say their history scares me!
Old     (MrPeepers)      Join Date: Aug 2011       08-07-2012, 5:47 AM Reply   
I tow an earlier VLX with '12 4runner. It does ok on flat roads when you use S-mode (manual shifting). Most of the power is generated at higher rpms (2500+), but it does pretty well. I don't think it is in the same league as the TDI though.

I wanted a TDI, but my wife was stuck on Toyota, since we put over 200k on our last 4runner with no problems. I put a lot of miles on my vehicles.
Old     (newwhit)      Join Date: Mar 2007       08-07-2012, 6:00 AM Reply   
what about the jeep Cherokee with the hemi?

also they are coming out with a diesel version for 2013...
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       08-07-2012, 7:26 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by newwhit View Post
what about the jeep Cherokee with the hemi?

also they are coming out with a diesel version for 2013...
That GC diesel is going to be my next vehicle. Order banks open late December. The 2014s begin production in January 2013. The '13 model year will be a short run. You will have to wait until then for the diesel, not happening for the '13s.
Old    Tim (srock)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-07-2012, 7:53 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_mn View Post
which is essentially moot if you don't have the towing capacity
True but many of us are on the bubble as the original post suggests. Would you rather tow at the vehicle limit of 5000# on an Explorer with 270 lb/ft of torque or with the upcoming engine offering 350 lb/ft or torque. The 4runner has about the same torque and a 5000# limit. In an older version of the 4runner with a small V8 the capacity jumped from 5000 to 6500 lbs.

Interestingly my 08 sequoia was rated close to 9000# but the same vehicle is now rated at something like 7000#???

In the past I have owned 4Runners, pre 08 Land Curisers and although they had the necessary towing capacity they (engine) struggled with the load. That's my point.

Last edited by srock; 08-07-2012 at 7:58 AM.
Old    Tim (srock)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-07-2012, 8:06 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by insuranceman View Post
tim, i agree the 08 and newer sequoia and land cruiser's with the larger engine tow great. still drink a lot of fuel. i had a 08 sequoia before the cruiser.
That is why I would like a vehicle with the torque and capacity to tow 6000# without having to drag around a large SUV or pickup to the office during the week.

The toureg is not that large but with the diesel it has one hell of a tow rating...and price tag. With a larger engine option I believe many of the mid sized SUV's could have adequate capacity to tow our sized boats without feeling like your taxing the engine.
Old    MOX (uofamox)      Join Date: Feb 2007       08-07-2012, 9:07 AM Reply   
I also just bought a new 2012 Touareg TDI to tow my Calabria pro v and to go snowboarding in the winter. The salesmen offer me 3.0% financing for the TDI. Lucky for me i ran into another VW salesmen at the bar last weekend and he said if i asked for the 0.0% they would give it to me as long as my credit was fine.

Once i got the 0.0% i walked out about 45min later with my new TDI.
Old    Brett B. (Brett_B)      Join Date: Sep 2010       08-07-2012, 9:59 AM Reply   
The 4th-gen 4-Runner (2002-2009) with the 4.7L V8 has a 7000lb towing capacity. I have a CPO 2007 Limited V8 and it does a great job towing my VLX. Why Toyota got rid of the V8 and de-rated the towing capacity to 5000lbs on the new 5th-gen 4-Runner I have no idea, but it kept me from buying one. I also looked at the Touareg but they were much harder to find in my area and I didn't feel the price difference was worth it at the time. Will certainly consider one in the future though.

Old    Axel (axeman)      Join Date: Aug 2009       08-07-2012, 10:46 AM Reply   
As mentioned above, Mercedes is also an option. I've got an 09 ML550. 382 hp / 391lb-ft tq AWD with a 7500lb tow rating. There's always the diesel version of the same vehicle. I'm sure your fiancée wouldn't mind driving a Mercedes Benz either.

Oh yeah. Tows pretty good too. Pretty fun to drive when not towing as well (fast if you need to, comfortable 100% of the time).
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Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       08-07-2012, 10:53 AM Reply   
Aren't teh new TDI's stickered at like $55k?

it's insane how much new vehicles have gone up the last few years... Can't touch anything under $20k these days.
Old    Nick Heckerson (kstateskier)      Join Date: May 2002       08-07-2012, 8:31 PM Reply   
Lots of good info. I am wondering if Toyota won't bring out a V8 mid production cycle to bring more buyers to the table. The TDI is about $55k. I found an Exec TDI loaded up on sale for $47k at a local dealer. They state that you can't get the 0% at that rate, but I'm guessing you could haggle and meet in the middle. I'd personally prefer way more to pay for $47k for the Touareg than $42k for a 4Runner Limited, but I don't always get to make the decisions at home

She isn't a fan of the MLs, but she does like the GLs.

We looked at a loaded Grand Cherokee, but I just can't get behind them. Everytime I see a sweet Overland, I see a base Laredo that turns me off again. I've never seen a vehicle that wheels could make look so much different. I guess the Toyota is a little the same, I think the SR5 looks goofy!

So far we are here. Pros of the Toyota are it seems a little bigger inside, especially behind the rear seat where we would like to put our large dogs (Golden and a Lab) and it has the roll down rear window. The T-Reg would have to leave the dogs in the back seat. Not a big fan of putting my dogs on a 55k vehicles leather though I currently do it in my G35. I like the looks of the VW a lot better and she is the exact opposite with the 4 Runner. I think we'd be going 20mpg for the 4Runner and around 28 for the T-Reg. I've got a great Toyota dealer about 5 minutes from my house but have already ruled out the VW dealer. We went up there Saturday and I guess I look to young or poor in my flip flops to buy a VW as the guy was miffed that I asked him to go get the keys. After he told me that it wouldn't be a good tow vehicle as it's a "luxury vehicle" I flipped him the keys and told him I hope his service department enjoyed serving the thing when I bought it across town. Anyone else find car salesmen to be complete morons these days? I have know more than the sales guy on the last 5 cars I have bought. I also enjoy being sized up on what I can afford by a guy pulling in 20k a year :bang head:

Luckily I've been told not to buy her a car until after our October wedding as it stressed her out more, so I've got a little time to look around. Don't think I can hold out until the GC in '14 though, as I think her Xterra with 100k might blow up before then.
Old    Nick Heckerson (kstateskier)      Join Date: May 2002       08-07-2012, 8:37 PM Reply   
insuranceman, that is the exact set up I'm looking at except with the Exec wheels. Something like the attached.

Jeff, you are right, you can barely get a Civic under 20k. I remember in high school my dad got a really nice Chevy Silverado for $24k in 94. I paid about $27k for a loaded Lariat SuperCab in '04. Since then prices have gone crazy. The majority of the F150s I was looking at were in the high 40s. That is when I started thinking it'd be easier to just get her something that would pull a boat and then when I'm ready to trade the G35 just downgrade into an Altima or maybe a Jetta TDI to commute in.
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Old    Brett B. (Brett_B)      Join Date: Sep 2010       08-08-2012, 8:13 AM Reply   
Happy wife, happy life. If your wife likes the look/feel of the Toyota better (like mine did) you really should look at the 4th-gen 4Runner. You can get a very nice Certified Pre-Owned 4th-gen V8 4Runner for $30k. Ours only had 27k miles on it and it was practically brand new with not a flaw on it. It will have an excellent factory warranty, if you need to finance you can still get good rates through the dealer, and it can actually tow a 21 foot wakeboat safely. I would not tow many wakeboats with a SUV only rated to 5000lbs. Plenty of the 21 foot models will be right at or surpassing that 5000lb limit when loaded up with stereo stuff, gas, and gear. I haven't had my 21'6" VLX on the scales yet but I'm guessing it's near 6000lbs when full of gas and gear and including the trailer. The manufacturer weight estimates shown online are typically very inaccurate. I don't envy the guy who gets in an accident while towing over the rated limit.

The T-Reg TDI will certainly tow better and get better gas mileage, the VR6 will be very underpowered. The 7700lb tow rating is great and the interior is much nicer than the Toyota as well. I love German cars but would not own another one out of warranty.
Old    Tim (srock)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-08-2012, 9:57 AM Reply   
No wife, happy life...
Old    WaterBullDawg (WaterBullDawg)      Join Date: Mar 2010       08-08-2012, 4:26 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by srock View Post
No wife, happy life...
Used to think the same thing. I was in the dictionary under bachelor. Until I met my wife.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Old    Tim (srock)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-10-2012, 5:46 AM Reply   
^^^bad sign for my marriage???.....
Old    Greg Taylor (gregtay)      Join Date: Aug 2008       08-10-2012, 9:34 PM Reply   
IT's just so sad that we can't get the new Touareg with the V8 TDI and the air suspension. The V6TDI is a great motor (We have it in our Q7) and tows well... but the V8TDI is pure sweetness. I have the older V10TDI Toaureg and the new V8TDI has more power and is more refined... but VoA decided Americans don't get the V8TDI . I really can't understand why they won't give us the air susp on the new Touareg.... you can still get it on the Q7 and Cayenne and it makes a huge difference for towing.
Old    Greg Anderson (ReSession)      Join Date: Apr 2010       08-12-2012, 5:32 AM Reply   
I have a fully loaded 2008 Touareg with the V8 and air suspension and it would be very tough to justify stepping down to a V6 without these features just to spend more on a new 2012 model.
Old    WaterBullDawg (WaterBullDawg)      Join Date: Mar 2010       08-12-2012, 10:19 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregtay View Post
IT's just so sad that we can't get the new Touareg with the V8 TDI and the air suspension. The V6TDI is a great motor (We have it in our Q7) and tows well... but the V8TDI is pure sweetness. I have the older V10TDI Toaureg and the new V8TDI has more power and is more refined... but VoA decided Americans don't get the V8TDI . I really can't understand why they won't give us the air susp on the new Touareg.... you can still get it on the Q7 and Cayenne and it makes a huge difference for towing.
This!!!

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Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       08-13-2012, 10:24 AM Reply   
How does it feel when towing? Does it get pushed around at all? Looks like they are only 5,000 lbs or so (same for the MB). I am kind of interested in these now after having owned my '12 Passat TDI for 2 months and loving every minute of it (best tank after 5,000 miles is 44mpg). I have an '07 duramax but it gets 10mpg towing and 13/14 on a good day around town. What's the real mpg towing with these little diesels?
Old    Jamie (yooper)      Join Date: Jun 2002       08-13-2012, 7:14 PM Reply   
I have an '07 Touareg V8. It tows better than any vehicle I have ever had. I've towed with a V8 Grand Cherokee, a V6 Trailblazer (horrible), a 5.4L F-150 and most recently (before the Touareg) a Yukon XL. The Touareg tows hands down better than any of them. Effortless. You don't even feel the trailer. It's actually shocking for a vehicle that (relatively) small.
Old     (insuranceman)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-14-2012, 7:42 AM Reply   
tim, it tows great! the touareg tdi has so much torque. in my opinion it tows much better than my 06 land cruiser or my previous 08 sequoia. with boat, trailer and gear i am probably a little over 5000 lbs. so far i am getting around 16mpg towing.
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       08-14-2012, 10:05 AM Reply   
My boat is in the 6,000 - 6,500lb range all loaded up. Sounds like you are at the same weight as the Touareg. 16mpg towing is ridiculous! That's 6-speed manual cummins mpg, sweet!
Old    doug rose (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-14-2012, 11:58 AM Reply   
i would get 2 vehicles. I know you dont want to but,,, buy a used truck that you can let the dogs in, tows great, only hits the road when you need it and gives you an extra ride if you ever need it. then look at other options for the wife, maybe a car, or the 4runner. If you can land a 4runner for 40k and a used half ton for 15k, you win!!! there are tons of early 2000's for 13 to17k in my area. not sure where you live, but it would also give you more options for boats i had an 04 4runner with the 4sp tranny and towed my 06 vride(old vlx hull) no problems, then a tahoe for awhile,(towed my 09 enzo) then a new ecoboost f150 and a 2012 enzo 244. i really think they all did a great job towing if you keep in mind what you are to expect from them. goodluck
Old    Nick Heckerson (kstateskier)      Join Date: May 2002       08-14-2012, 8:27 PM Reply   
Doug, what is the reason behind buying a second vehicle? Price wasn't the reason for not wanting two vehicles, I just personally don't want to gas 2 large vehicles. I currently have a G35x, so it probably wouldn't be that big of a difference, but just really don't think we need 2 larger vehicles. I personally don't want to take an early 2000s 1/2 ton on the 5 hour trip to Table Rock multiple times a year either. I guess I've got spoiled by creature comforts. Also, I had an 04 and 07 F150 and doubt they tow much better than the Touareg.

Boat most likely will be a new VLX or a 21ft MB at the largest for reference.
Old    Brett B. (Brett_B)      Join Date: Sep 2010       08-15-2012, 7:26 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by kstateskier View Post
Boat most likely will be a new VLX or...
In that case the 5th gen 4-runner will be off the list due to it's 5000lb rating, and the V6 engine will be very underpowered. A new VLX with a dual axle trailer, gear, gas, stereo, etc. can easily be around or just under 6000lbs.
Old    sp0tts (sp0tts)      Join Date: Jun 2004       08-15-2012, 9:14 AM Reply   
The '12 Touaregs are really nice. VW has really stepped up their game, but like others have mentioned, for that kind of money, the lack of an air suspension would make it really tough for me to consider. If I were you I would at the very least take a hard look at an ML350 Blue Tech. The base price is only $3,400 more, similar diesel engine and 7,500lb towing capacity - I've also gotta think the resale would be better on the M.

I was personally in a similar situation about 3-4 years ago. I wanted one vehicle as a daily driver and to tow my boat. I would've bought a new Touareg, but all my research said find something with an air suspension. This came from both Cayenne and Touareg owners' forums. I would've bought a new Touareg, but the air suspension wasn't offered at the time so I began looking for CPO'd VW V10's. The V10's were very hard to come by and so were any other Touaregs with air suspensions (it was standard in the V10). I ended up with a CPO Cayenne Turbo that had 30,000 miles on it for about the same price as a new Touareg, maybe a little less.

I've since switched back to two vehicles (car and truck) because of business needs. IMO, if you are going to spend $45-50k or more on an SUV, make sure you get something that has enough torque and an air suspension (at least a 6 cylinder diesel or a V8 gas). Even with a brand new truck, I miss the ride quality of my Cayenne. The power was nice, but a few extra minutes to accelerate isn't a big deal, the ride quality I miss. I've towed with a lot of vehicles and nothing rode nicer while towing than my Cayenne. A CPO'd Cayenne or Q7 would give you a warranty out to 100,000 miles, both could be had with air suspensions. So can the M-350 bluetech. And the Grand Cherokee is built on the same platform as the Mercedes. The Land Rovers are also very capable, but reliability scared me a bit.

At the end of the day, a steel spring suspension will get the job done, but for what you're spending, you could have it all. Those who haven't towed with an air suspension, don't really know what they're missing. I don't doubt that you wouldn't be happy with a new Touareg, they're very nice vehicles. However, those above who said they wouldn't switch to a new one because of the suspension, said it for a reason. Good luck with your search.
Old    Nick Heckerson (kstateskier)      Join Date: May 2002       08-15-2012, 7:38 PM Reply   
Looks like after a lot of good advice I might have to go back to the drawing board.

I don't like the ML and the GL only gets about 21 mpg which I'm not a fan of. The Q7 maxes out at 6600 which may be pushing it on some boats. Also, even though the pricing isn't a lot different I would really prefer not too be too flashy at work and drive an MB or Audi if at all possible.

The Jeep Diesel is intriguing.
Old    Nick Heckerson (kstateskier)      Join Date: May 2002       08-22-2012, 8:02 PM Reply   
Started looking at some Lexus GX460's. They have a 6500 rating. Anyone have any experience here?

Somehow the price tag just keeps climbing. Maybe Kia has something that will tow 6000+ ?
Old    Mark Pfister (mpfiste2)      Join Date: Jun 2009       08-23-2012, 1:53 PM Reply   
The Kia Borrego had a towing capacity of 7500+. You had to get the V8 version though. I think they stopped making them in 09.
Old    WaterBullDawg (WaterBullDawg)      Join Date: Mar 2010       08-23-2012, 3:03 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by kstateskier View Post
Started looking at some Lexus GX460's. They have a 6500 rating. Anyone have any experience here?

Somehow the price tag just keeps climbing. Maybe Kia has something that will tow 6000+ ?
Not much info but I have a co worker and a neighbor that have one and they both have had trouble with them. One was transmission and the other I can't remember but I do know that he just traded it in for a Tundra.

Cannot believe they make a Kia that can tow a boat.

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Old    Greg Bodor (gti2lo)      Join Date: Nov 2005       08-23-2012, 3:24 PM Reply   
Cayenne for 2013 has a TDI engine... does it have air suspension?

Otherwise Touareg is the way to go.... We've had a 2004 and 2008 with awesome towing. Our 2008 is the V8 and has the air suspension and it has not given any issues at all. also 2008 is the last year for the V8 engines.
Old    Gene Williams (gene3x)      Join Date: Apr 2005       08-23-2012, 5:29 PM Reply   
I had an 05 Landcruiser and my wife had an 05 GX470 that I towed with on a semi regular basis. I got 11-12 mpg towing conservatively and 17mpg without towing. It also had an air suspension . I thought it towed great. Everybit as good as my Landcruiser.
Old    sp0tts (sp0tts)      Join Date: Jun 2004       08-24-2012, 8:32 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by gti2lo View Post
Cayenne for 2013 has a TDI engine... does it have air suspension?

Otherwise Touareg is the way to go.... We've had a 2004 and 2008 with awesome towing. Our 2008 is the V8 and has the air suspension and it has not given any issues at all. also 2008 is the last year for the V8 engines.
Air suspension is standard on the turbo and an option on the S. I'd imagine it will be an option on the diesel too.

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