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Old    Ken W (kenteck)      Join Date: Jan 2005       08-02-2012, 2:37 PM Reply   
So browsing another form and came across this post.... I just don't understand how you can be doing 70 mph, in the fast lane, pouring down rain, I just don't see why somebody would be driving that fast towing a boat....

http://forums.wakeboarder.com/viewtopic.php?t=92381
Old    Dave (bcrider)      Join Date: Apr 2006       08-02-2012, 2:49 PM Reply   
I think this should relate back to my thread about straps and why you should have them if this person didn't. The out come could have been different.

Towing at 70mph. I tow my boat around that speed quite a bit when I am on the highway. I'd probably do it in the rain as well. Now if it's absolutely ugly down pour then I probably wouldn't be.
Old     (saberworks)      Join Date: Sep 2010       08-02-2012, 2:52 PM Reply   
Meh, 70 isn't that fast, although here in WA even when the speed limit is 70, if you're towing a trailer, it's 60. Do you really think the outcome would have been different had he been going 60? Clearly "too fast for conditions" in this case.
Old    Ken W (kenteck)      Join Date: Jan 2005       08-02-2012, 3:05 PM Reply   
This is what he said in the thread, also his boat didn't have the tie downs connected


"Doing 70mph on the interstate in the left lane, started raining heavily, semi in the right lane sprayed a ton of water into my lane, my truck hydroplaned, went left, slammed off the guard rail, came back right, got sideways, went down the embankment, and ejected the boat. Overall very thankful for how it turned out and thank god for insurance"
Old    MCXSTAR (snork)      Join Date: Jun 2007       08-02-2012, 3:26 PM Reply   
Tie downs or not that wreck would not have ended well
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       08-02-2012, 3:28 PM Reply   
I am not sure why anybody needs to tow a boat 70mph anyways. In most places that would be the maximum speed limit for cars not towing anything. There is flat out no reason to go that fast towing a boat. Hopefully the dumb a$$ got a huge fine.
Old    Raf (Raf1985)      Join Date: Mar 2012       08-02-2012, 3:59 PM Reply   
I dont think 70 is that bad. I'm usually at 70-75 along with a lot of other people in my area. Might step it down a notch in the rain though.
Old    Tom N (SangerTom)      Join Date: Aug 2010       08-02-2012, 4:15 PM Reply   
Out of curiousity i found this site http://www.csgnetwork.com/stopdistcalc.html which has a stopping distance calculator. I'm not a physics whiz so I just punched in 70 mph and 55 (calif towing limit). For a passenger car - the stopping distance is 312 ft vs 192 ft. More than double the length of a typical truck and 23 ft boat combo. Obviously us nut heads have bigger vehicles and more weight so the stopping distances are even greater.

I'm not saying that hydroplaning at 55 would have saved him compared to 70 mph but I'm pretty sure if someone cut you off or came to a stop or a tire blew that 100 ft + difference is going to mean something.

Ditto - on the strapless thread.....proved my point.

BTW - I usually go about 60 to 65....guilty as charged.
Old    dtc (mach90)      Join Date: Jun 2009       08-02-2012, 4:42 PM Reply   
I know I'm the minority, and probably motivated by different experiences than most here, so please don't flame me.

The ability to drive with relative freedom in regard to style is something we often take for granted, and sometimes perspective and understanding can shift in a quantum leap when a circumstance or experience reminds us of how fragile life can be. I'm not here to say what somebody should or should not do, nor to argue the logic and reasoning for individual or personal behavior decisions.

Having said all that, please be reminded that if you have "ST" tires on your trailer, they are rated to a maximum of 65mph. And although the law varies by state, here in CA the maximum trailering speed is 65mph.

Good luck with the lawyers and insurance companies if/when something above the rated speed on the tires, the posted maximum speed in any condition, or anything in excess of the GCWR!

Be safe & enjoy the rest of the summer!
Old     (superfluous)      Join Date: May 2012       08-02-2012, 5:02 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mach90 View Post
And although the law varies by state, here in CA the maximum trailering speed is 65mph.!
Try again?

"Unless otherwise posted, the maximum speed limit is 55 mph on two-lane undivided highways and for vehicles towing trailers."

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/speed_limits.htm
Old    Phatboypimp (phatboypimp)      Join Date: Apr 2005       08-02-2012, 5:11 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by superfluous View Post
Try again?

"Unless otherwise posted, the maximum speed limit is 55 mph on two-lane undivided highways and for vehicles towing trailers."

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/speed_limits.htm
I have a ticket to prove it. I got nailed doing 65 towing my trailer and improper lane usage as according to the officer you must be in the right hand lane (slow lane) unless there are four lanes and you can utilize the second lane from the right. Or something similar to that.
Old    Phatboypimp (phatboypimp)      Join Date: Apr 2005       08-02-2012, 5:14 PM Reply   
Here it is....

Trailers

Designated Lanes

You must drive in the right hand lane at all times except:

When passing
Preparing to make a turn
Entering or leaving a highway
On a highway with four or more lanes in each direction, you must use the extreme two right lanes.
Old    Dustin Diaz (val_cal)      Join Date: Aug 2008       08-02-2012, 5:15 PM Reply   
Where are all the no need to use tie down's people at now
Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-02-2012, 7:53 PM Reply   
Why are people whining about 70MPH? My truck tows better (especially in a hilly environment) at 75 rather than 70, so guess what speed I drive. No big deal...I've towed at 80 for short times as well.

Not in the rain, and not weaving around or doing stupid crap, but 70 isn't a big deal at all.
Old    dtc (mach90)      Join Date: Jun 2009       08-02-2012, 9:28 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by superfluous View Post
Try again?

"Unless otherwise posted, the maximum speed limit is 55 mph on two-lane undivided highways and for vehicles towing trailers."

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/speed_limits.htm
Sorry ... my bad ... typo as the kids were distracting me while I was typing! Absolutely 55mph.
Old    Ian Brown (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       08-03-2012, 5:19 AM Reply   
I generally tow at 65-70 too, in dry conditions though. Certainly doesn't seem any more dangerous than 55-60 to me.
Old    882001 (882001)      Join Date: Nov 2003       08-03-2012, 5:35 AM Reply   
i have pulled trailers faster than 70. i would set tge cruise on 78 pulling my travel trailer. rain i would slow down a bit. but the speed limit is 75
Old    David Stumpf (stumpf101)      Join Date: Jan 2011       08-03-2012, 6:31 AM Reply   
It always seemed more dangerous to me when you are towing at 50-55 and you have people doing the speed limit of 70 flying by you. I try to keep up with the flow of traffic, within reason.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       08-03-2012, 8:03 AM Reply   
I guess that is why all you guys think you need diesels to tow a 6000 pound boat/trailer?

Too many small things that can go wrong that can create a huge/dangerous problem. It just isn't worth it. On a 120 mile trip you save like 15 minutes by driving 70 vs 60. I guess I can see 70 if you live in a very flat area with wide shoulders, in dry weather and very little to no traffic.

Safe travels guys.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       08-03-2012, 8:11 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by stumpf101 View Post
It always seemed more dangerous to me when you are towing at 50-55 and you have people doing the speed limit of 70 flying by you. I try to keep up with the flow of traffic, within reason.
I understand what you are saying but I don't think it is true unless everybody else is driving 80 when the max speed is 70.

I am not sure how things work in the flat lands east of the rockies but I am pretty sure Washington, Oregon and California all have max speed limits 10 mph less for trucks/trailers then regular automobiles or 55 mph max for trailers. most also have a rule that you can't drive in the left lane of a 3 lane or wider highway at all. On a 2 lane highway you cna get in the left lane to pass(this is the rule for every car, not just trucks but drivers in Washington are brainless morons who think their car is the only one on the highway).
Old    882001 (882001)      Join Date: Nov 2003       08-03-2012, 8:38 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by polarbill View Post
I guess that is why all you guys think you need diesels to tow a 6000 pound boat/trailer?
so are you saying this was caused by pullin with a big diesel? my 150 was loose on wet roads. alot more so than my 250. i will never buy anything less than a 250/2500 4x4 weather it be gas or diesel
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       08-03-2012, 8:44 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 882001 View Post
so are you saying this was caused by pullin with a big diesel? my 150 was loose on wet roads. alot more so than my 250. i will never buy anything less than a 250/2500 4x4 weather it be gas or diesel
I am not saying a diesel caused the accident, I was referring to everybody saying they drive 70-75 with a trailer. That was mostly a smart arse comment for everybody that thinks they need a diesel to tow a regular saized wakeboat.

As far as speeding while pulling a trailer I still think it is stupid unless there is no traffic, straight highways and perfect conditions.

Last edited by polarbill; 08-03-2012 at 8:49 AM.
Old    Ed G (ed_g)      Join Date: Nov 2005       08-03-2012, 9:51 AM Reply   
I believe I saw this accident!

Happened Saturday March 10th, on I-4 west, not far from Daytona.

There was a terrible storm and traffic was crazy because of the bike week folks heading towards Orlando .

I could not believe how far the boat was from the truck and trailer - that was heading in the opposite direction of traffic flow.

You could tell that somebody royally screwed up driving that truck rig

Last edited by ed_g; 08-03-2012 at 9:55 AM.
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       08-03-2012, 10:59 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by val_cal View Post
Where are all the no need to use tie down's people at now
Exactly what I'm wondering. If properly strapped down that boat would still be on the trailer. Possibly could have avoided running in the fitch without all that weight shifting around banging the guide poles, or at least would have been an easier more contained cleanup and no projectile going far from the truck.

So what do all you "no strap" guys think?
Old    Jonathan Bay (john211)      Join Date: Aug 2008       08-03-2012, 11:12 AM Reply   
" If properly strapped down that boat would still be on the trailer."

^^^^

If strapped down, that trailer might still be on the boat ... after the boat rolled onto its tower, with the rolling boat and trailer taking the truck with it on the roll, or else maybe twisting the tongue until something, like disconnection.

Given that crash, I wouldn't have too much faith in the strength of one strap and/or its bolted connection to the trailer frame. Nowhere near enough strength.
Old    Phatboypimp (phatboypimp)      Join Date: Apr 2005       08-03-2012, 11:29 AM Reply   
It isn't really about strength it is about leverage. No one can really predict the outcome if he had straps but I have a ton of confidence that a fully strapped boat/trailer combination would have a very difficult time turning over a truck from the single point of contact on the trailer ball. Sure it could accelerate a roll over if the truck was already leaning but I would much rather have my boat connected to the the trailer at three points instead of one versus the boat flying off the trailer. It is amazing that no one was seriously injured. I honestly will never understand how anyone can argue against trailer straps.
Old     (MrPeepers)      Join Date: Aug 2011       08-03-2012, 11:52 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by phatboypimp View Post
I honestly will never understand how anyone can argue against trailer straps.
Stubbornness.
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       08-03-2012, 3:10 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by polarbill View Post
I am not saying a diesel caused the accident, I was referring to everybody saying they drive 70-75 with a trailer. That was mostly a smart arse comment for everybody that thinks they need a diesel to tow a regular saized wakeboat.

As far as speeding while pulling a trailer I still think it is stupid unless there is no traffic, straight highways and perfect conditions.
Yeah there really isn't a reason to go over 65 with a boat trailer. The tires and wheels aren't rated to over that. I learned the hard way on this. I usually set the cruise at 65 and just go, but a fri evening trying to get to a lake 3 hours away I avg'd 75, and was up to 80 at times when passing, about a mile from the off ramp to the lake I had a bearing seize and I lost an entire wheel and caliper. On the plus side for a diesel I didn't feel it and it didn't jerk the truck at all, but it made for a stressed out sketchy weekend putting hte boat in the water, a $500 bill to fix, and 2 weeks of my boat being 3 hours away.

You won't always have issues, but there is a reason these trailers aren't rated for over 65mph. THey are much smaller tires and they spin at a much faster rate than your avg car tire, plus they are on bearings that get wet often. If you get in or cause a wreck at speeds over your ratings good luck getting your insurance to pony up, and god help you if anyone gets hurt or killed...
Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-03-2012, 6:35 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by polarbill View Post
I am not saying a diesel caused the accident, I was referring to everybody saying they drive 70-75 with a trailer. That was mostly a smart arse comment for everybody that thinks they need a diesel to tow a regular saized wakeboat.

As far as speeding while pulling a trailer I still think it is stupid unless there is no traffic, straight highways and perfect conditions.
My 5.3L Gas 1500 Avalanche is what I tow my boat with, and it tows better at 75MPH. No Rocky Mountains, but through the hills of Kentucky and Tennessee, some of which get decently steep.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       08-03-2012, 7:26 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrousbird View Post
My 5.3L Gas 1500 Avalanche is what I tow my boat with, and it tows better at 75MPH. No Rocky Mountains, but through the hills of Kentucky and Tennessee, some of which get decently steep.
What do you mean tows better at 75? You certainly don't mean it tows safer. If that is what you are trying to say then you are breathing a little too much Nitrous. Put down the pipe.
Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-04-2012, 2:10 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by polarbill View Post
What do you mean tows better at 75? You certainly don't mean it tows safer. If that is what you are trying to say then you are breathing a little too much Nitrous. Put down the pipe.
Less downshifting, easier on hill climbs, less motor/tranny heat as a result. 70 is at that spot where it isn't quite in the torque curve where it wants to be. A much better towing experience.
Old     (pprior)      Join Date: Jan 2012       08-04-2012, 7:28 AM Reply   
"Less downshifting, easier on hill climbs, less motor/tranny heat as a result. 70 is at that spot where it isn't quite in the torque curve where it wants to be. A much better towing experience."

That's why you buy a diesel, or an ecoboost

Seriously, check your tires and trailer, they likely are not rated for that speed. Look at stopping distances with that much weight behind you. Don't tempt fate.
Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-04-2012, 9:33 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pprior View Post
"Less downshifting, easier on hill climbs, less motor/tranny heat as a result. 70 is at that spot where it isn't quite in the torque curve where it wants to be. A much better towing experience."

That's why you buy a diesel, or an ecoboost

Seriously, check your tires and trailer, they likely are not rated for that speed. Look at stopping distances with that much weight behind you. Don't tempt fate.
Diesel isn't needed for my use (nice, but I'm not spending the money). After my current company vehicle (06 F150) there is no chance I'm actually spending my own money on one...I hate that truck. My paid off Avalanche works just fine as a tow vehicle.

Trailer tires, like all of them, are ST rated. And you CAN drive 75MPH on ST tires, read here:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...&affiliate=FH8

Truck tires are Nitto Terra Grapplers, 112MPH speed rating. As for stopping distance, trailer has a recently replaced 4-wheel disc brake setup and the truck stops about the same with or without the trailer. I also don't tailgate, watch ahead of me and pay attention to the road.
Old     (pprior)      Join Date: Jan 2012       08-04-2012, 12:47 PM Reply   
The avalanche has AFAIK only a 5500lb tow rating. If you have any size wakeboard boat at all you're already pushing that rating or exceeding it with trailer and gear/fuel. That makes it all the more crazy to be speeding.

I would hope you haven't had to do any/many panic stops but personally based on data I've seen and my own experience I find it hard to believe the stopping distance is the same.

As for tailgating - just yesterday I was on the way to the lake, and a car passes me on the left, then proceeds to pull right in front of me and starts braking hard as the light up ahead on the HW turned red. I had to suddenly brake to the point that the trailer tires locked up and smoked as I looked back behind me. Boy was I pissed, the guy was an idiot, but it just goes to show you can't control all variables when you're out on the road.

/nanny mode off

I was unaware of the 75mph rating, but by my reading that's only if you overinflate the tires, which just doesn't sound wise to me. But, I did learn something there. But note:
"Industry standards dictate tires with the ST designation are speed rated to 65 MPH (104 km/h) under normal inflation and load conditions."
Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-04-2012, 1:38 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pprior View Post
The avalanche has AFAIK only a 5500lb tow rating. If you have any size wakeboard boat at all you're already pushing that rating or exceeding it with trailer and gear/fuel. That makes it all the more crazy to be speeding.
You are off on the tow rating.

http://www.chevyavalanchefanclub.com..._1500_4x4.html

Mine actually has the lowest of tow ratings on all Avalanches, being the lowest HP year, 1500, 4x4, and it is 7100lbs. If it had 4.10 gearing, it would be rated at 8100. If it was a 2WD it would be 7300, and if had 2WD and 4.10 gearing it would be 8300. FYI, all 2002-2006 Avalanches have the same brakes, hitch, frame so that doesn't impact the difference. Suspensions are different, but mine would be considered a better towing suspension with the Z71 package that's standard on the North Face Editions. Only thing needed to bring mine up to an 8100 tow capacity is upgrading to 4.10 gears, which I will do if ever a time comes I need to build the front and rear ends.

And speaking of "breaking rules" I have went well above the 1300 bed capactiy and hauled 2500lbs back there. Not all that much rear end squat either; these trucks don't squat badly at all, something I thought it would do prior to purchasing it due to a coil spring rear suspension.
Old     (pprior)      Join Date: Jan 2012       08-04-2012, 7:38 PM Reply   
My bad - it's the newer generation ones that have a much reduced tow rating. I know because I was thinking about buying one (loved the midgate idea), but had to pass because of it.

And remember - you can never officially change tow rating once the truck is out the door from the factory. It's on a sticker on the truck and changing things even if factory spec parts will not change the official rating.

Regards and thanks for the info on several items. Nice to disagree about things like this without acrimony.
Old    Chris C (cboom12)      Join Date: Jul 2004       08-04-2012, 7:59 PM Reply   
2007 Avalanche (current gen) 4x2 8000lbs of towing 7800 for the 4x4.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-04-2012, 8:15 PM Reply   
I use trailer straps religiously, but I don't think they are going to make a damn bit of difference if the 5k lb boat decides it wants to go somewhere the that the 1200lb trailer doesn't. The straps strap the trailer to the boat not the boat to the trailer.
Old    The Truth (boomshot)      Join Date: Jan 2008       08-05-2012, 7:35 AM Reply   
Love the f**king "Hmm.... I'm surprised the insurance company didn't question about the tie downs not being used" comment. That poster is a f**king idiot for that.

Some serious Monday Morning Quarterbacking at its absolute worst. Anyone posting here or there that doesn't say "wow sorry that happened, could have been me" is just being dishonest with themselves. There is nothing wrong with towing at a highway speed OR towing in the rain OR forgetting tiedowns on a 5000lb boat.

Tiedowns, too fast, rain, etc. Whatever. Towing is dangerous and it is unpredictable. I feel bad for the guy tossing his nice boat like that. I can't say anything more because I am kind of sickened at the too-late advice people are offering. Unbelievable. And also, predictable.
Old     (pprior)      Join Date: Jan 2012       08-05-2012, 10:20 AM Reply   
I think it's kinda silly to say there is "nothing wrong with forgetting tiedowns." Of course there is something wrong if you forget something. If you choose not to run them, well we've all seen the debate on that issue, but if it's part of your routine and you forget it, well you screwed up. And towing in the rain, or towing at faster speeds does increase risk, something we all should hear from time to time. Most of us guys need a good reminder to be careful from time to time, as we all seem to think we're going to live forever it would seem.

And the purpose of this forum is to banter around things, and some topics like this may lead to some people changing behavior and others not, but just the discussion in itself is not tantamount to insensitivity or callousness against the person who had the unfortunate event. In fact, AFAIK he isn't even around here, right? This was linked from another forum.

But for the record, in case any of my "monday a.m. quarterbacking" was interpreted incorrectly, I'm very bummed for the person who lost their boat, and very glad they were not killed or seriously injured. I'm also very aware that we all are taking chances whenever we are towing (or driving in general).

As for the avalance, I'm perplexed by the towing capacities as when I shopped them online last fall it listed 5500 max for the 2012 models. Maybe I wasn't in the right setup, IDK. I ended up with a ecoboost f150 and it has towed quite well but I'd love to have a diesel f250/350 for towing if it weren't my daily driver as well.
Old    Chris C (cboom12)      Join Date: Jul 2004       08-05-2012, 2:25 PM Reply   
For the record my 86 nautique does not even have tie down rings on the stern.
Old    Chris C (cboom12)      Join Date: Jul 2004       08-05-2012, 2:30 PM Reply   
wow you are correct chevys site shows the 2012 at 5100lbs. Crazy. i wonder how it dropped so much. My avy tows my little boat a champ. I probly would not want to tow anything over 23ft with it at least over long distance.

After looking again it shows 8000 for the 2012 4x4 and 5100 for the 2x4. Weird. Not sure of the reason for the drop still.

Last edited by cboom12; 08-05-2012 at 2:34 PM.
Old    Nick Heckerson (kstateskier)      Join Date: May 2002       08-05-2012, 2:42 PM Reply   
First, I'll state I'm a proponent of strapping to the trailer, but in this case I'm not sure you would have had a lot better outcome with the boat strapped down. To get most wake boats to jump from the bunks you would have to get some sort of bounce, such as going over RR tracks at a high speed. In this case that would probably mean the sideways trailers tires starting to bounce. If the boat is strapped down, that may just cause a rollover. Now I'm not sure what that would result in, depends how quick the trailer came un done from the tow vehicles. I'm not going to lie that I have towed at 75+ with a tandem trailer, but I am also smart enough to tone it down in a downpour with traffic. I usually bring it back anytime I'm in a lot of traffic as if I don't have room to maneuver I just don't feel as safe.
Old    Dave (davenk)      Join Date: Feb 2008       08-06-2012, 10:59 AM Reply   
Everyone talks about stopping, what about your trailer brakes? I can stop better with my 5,000 lb boat and trailer brakes at all 4 wheels then I ever could with my 3,000 lb boat and no trailer brakes. I know it doesn't really apply to this situation though.

How many maintain and upkeep their trailer brakes?
Old    Ken W (kenteck)      Join Date: Jan 2005       08-07-2012, 9:19 AM Reply   
IMO
I just donít think itís a good idea to tow your boat on a busy Hwy faster than 70, especially in the rain and not having your boat tied down properly on the Hwy, even if you got a big rig, it just takes a split second for something to happen, maybe im wrong or maybe im right, I have had too many incidents of people slamming on their brakes, cutting if front of me or cutting me off, first time drivers not paying attention, over the past 20 years, I would just rather get there in one piece and not have white knucklesÖ

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