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Old    LR3w8kbrdr            07-18-2012, 11:44 AM Reply   
Alright...its time to get serious. I need a G23 and Im going to do this by making $$$ just like Magic Mike lol totally kidding and no i never saw the movie.

Im now stable with my daily routine, ditched my going out every night and motivated to make this work. A few may have also read that I ditched all energy drinks, not resorting to sodas and quit dipping as well this past Sunday. So I figured Id do it all at once and adjust to it. So far so good on the drinks & tobacco.

Im 5'11" 163lbs and really need to add some meat to my bones, have chicken legs and no upper body definition. Ive always been pretty slender so its time to bulk up for a few mos then I'll resort to cutting after gaining about 10lbs+ or so.

Just began working out (strength training) 3days/week, paddleboarding on my off days and wakeboarding on weekends...do you think the following diet and trying to be around 3000 cal/day will do it for me?? Drinking gallon of h20 each day. im tired of being slender.

***Let me say this...I do NOT like eggs or cottage cheese, so those will not work for me**

5am: Preworkout meal
-protein shake w/ nonfat milk
-slice of wheat toast w/ tsp pbutter

7am: Postworkout meal/Breakfast
-oatmeal w/ fruit
-chocolate milk 20oz
-multivitamin

10am: Snack
-apple
-almonds 1oz

12pm: Lunch
-tuna or 6oz grilled chix
-cup of brown rice

2pm: snack
-veggies (cucumbers, celery)
-almonds 1oz

5pm: dinner
-tuna or grilled chix 6oz
-cup of brown rice
-veggies

8pm: snack
-protein shake (w/ banana & pb)

let me know your thoughts on this. I know I probably should rest on my days off but paddleboarding is too enjoyable for me to give it up.

Im sure Im missing some info but fire away!! Steroids are not an option either as I get drug tested at work lol
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       07-18-2012, 12:30 PM Reply   
I would ditch the toxic protein shake and give your body high quality food before the workout. I would also make sure that you have carb intake prior to your workout, as carbs are the preferred energy source by the body. You'll have more energy on carbs as opposed to protein.
Protein is best for recovery or rebuilding of tissue following your workout. Personally, when I step into the gym with no carbs, I feel flat and weak. If you must drink the nasty chemical shake, its best suited post workout.

Fruit post workout is good to replace your carbs. Bummer that you don't like eggs. Eggs are really the only nutritionally rich breakfast food, and ideal for a gym rat.

At a glance, your diet doesn't look like it consists of enough food to help you gain weight. I would replace some of those snacks and shakes with more real food if your metabolic rate is as high as it sounds. No red meat?
Old    Rob Mahoney (Mahoney86)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-18-2012, 12:34 PM Reply   
You need to eat WAYY more if you want to gain any muscle. To maintain body weight you are supposed to eat 25 calories per lb of body weight, so just doing that you need to be eating around 4100 calories a day. I would shoot for at the minimum 5000 calories a day and work you way up to higher. With working out, paddleboarding and wakeboarding you will be burning a good amount of calories. By the way more daily meal sounds is you want to stay lean while bulking, which is going to be a slow road, add a nice protein meal of steak and potatoes into your diet or a nice pork chop. You need to feed your muscle to gain muscle. But on a few lbs and really eat those calories and you will start to gain size, then once you have some size to you, focus on leaning out.

When I was young I was always a string bean 6'2 180lbs and for the life of me could not bulk up, i thought i eat all day whats wrong... You need to be eating GOOD food EVERY 2 hours. I started eating 7 meals a day, always feeding myself when hungry and in 8 months I went for 180 to 245 and I was solid. Then you start carting back, do like cardio and you will get definition much much quicker.
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            07-18-2012, 12:36 PM Reply   
Haha woops...

Yeah...one of those snacks is supposed to include a turkey breast sandwich. See this will dec be my issue is getting enough cal intake. I can also throw some breakfast hashbrown potatoes in the breakfast and some steak for my 8pm meal, potatoes & veggies.

I can do egg whites in a smoothie in the morning vs the protein powder but I love my chocolate & pb smoothies and was supplementing my protein with some whey to get more than 165g.
Old    Rob Mahoney (Mahoney86)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-18-2012, 12:58 PM Reply   
Look up a company called Optimal Nutrituion (ON) they make a powdered egg mix that you can add into a shake or into your outmeal, it does not taste like egg they have choc, vaniala etc...

Calorie intake is always tough except when guys are skinny and want to get big. I use to use At Large Nutrion's Maximus protein powder plus whole milk and 2 scoops of vanilla ice cream. It was about 3800 calories per drink. Keep in mind you have to work you way up to drinking it all because its super heavy and a lot of liquid. I started with half in the morning and then half at night. eventually I could drink it in one sitting.

Biggest thing is you need to train yourself to eat more and more frequently. I spent a lot of time forcing myself to eat when I was no hungry and making sure i finished all of my meal no matter how painful. With high calorie protein shakes like I mentioned or Russian Bear 5000, plus loads of new protein bars on the market its very easily to get good high calorie meals in. Join a bodybuiding forum, TONS of good high calorie food.

I use to make a hamburger recipe that was get a few lbs of a good fat content hamburger meat. Mix in a bowl with 2 eggs , some bread crumbs, garlic powder, worchestire sauce, parmessan cheese and whole salad croutons. Make a few, freeze what you dont eat and throw what you want on the grill. Its basically a good protein burger with a good amount of calories. Top it off with some nice veggies and cheese along with a good veggie side.
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            07-18-2012, 1:04 PM Reply   
Great feedback guys!! Keep it coming

Its going to be a challenge for me to eat soo much but I dont look at failure as an option. If I can kick the redbulls, which Im doing well with, I can do this too.

Damn 3800 calories a shake, thats crazy!

I'll also throw alot of whole wheat pastas & ground turkey dishes in the mix.
Old    Steve - O (misteve)      Join Date: Aug 2007       07-18-2012, 1:26 PM Reply   
If you want to add muscle too your whole body don't forget about lifting LEGS! Lots of multi joint free weight movements. Squats, deadlifts, power cleans, military press, bench press, dips, pullups etc. Get as many muscles involved as you can and that will really spark the muscle growth throughout your body.

EAT A LOT if you're trying to bulk. Quality foods still but eat until you're full and eat when you're hungry. I personally drink Raw milk from my local butcher and if I can't get that I always go whole milk. You lose almost all of the enzymes and good bacteria as soon as you start pasteurizing and cutting the fat.

To make it real simple do this; EAT, LIFT HEAVY!
Old    Rob Mahoney (Mahoney86)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-18-2012, 1:32 PM Reply   
Pick up a book by Rippietoe called Starting Strength.... Great workout programs and its all full body older lfiting techniques. Power cleans, dead lights, etc... a lot of stuff you dont see in the gym anymore because most people like to do target muscle training, however with older "caveman" workouts, youre always keeping your core tight , youll use legs when working out your back etc.... Huge results very quickly i have seen most people experience. The new freemotion machines are also good for this, it focuses on total body, not just one specific muscle
Old    Pound (snyder)      Join Date: Feb 2006       07-18-2012, 1:50 PM Reply   
5k calories/day is way too much in my opinion. I'm not an expert though. at your current body weight, around 3k /day should put on weight. It'd be real hard to eat 5000 clean calories.

Realistically, you can expect to only put on about 1/2 lb per week of lean mass if you're eating right, training hard and properly, and getting plenty of rest. If you overeat, you'll just get fat.

I also agree that if you keep/add compound movements like squats/deads etc you'll send signals to your central nervous system to stimulate growth.

You're going to get as many opinions on this topic are there are people on this discussion board.

Check out this guy's site (Lyle McDonald). Like I said, I'm no expert, but he certainly is. Here's an article of his to get some basic diet set up going.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...et-part-1.html

He gets as techincal as you want to go wrt physiology of weight gain/loss, strength/size gain, etc.
You can spend hrs upon hrs reading this guy's articles if you're so inclined.
Old    Adam Curtis (acurtis_ttu)      Join Date: May 2004       07-18-2012, 1:55 PM Reply   
Just going to the gym and doing something , your gonna see change. similar to anything physical that's new to the body. Honestly, just doing, bench press, squats and pullups you'll see change...increase weight every week.

At this begiiner phase your over thinking it, IMO.....start eating high protien high carb meals ( find a good ratio of macros ( carbs/protien/fat) . Eating will become a full time job, lol. For those that do it....know exactly wht I'm talking about.

Eat/hit the gym.....come back here with results after 6-8 weeks. then look for suggestions on how to tweak. If your somewhat young...under 30 , you'll be able to gain 15-20 lbs easy in 6-8 weeks.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       07-18-2012, 3:48 PM Reply   
"I personally drink Raw milk from my local butcher and if I can't get that I always go whole milk. You lose almost all of the enzymes and good bacteria as soon as you start pasteurizing and cutting the fat."

Thank god! Someone else gets it!
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       07-18-2012, 4:43 PM Reply   
Semi off topic, but around here the general occupational drug test isn't really looking for PEDs, LOL! Not that I condone roids or HGH use, just saying I don't think they are a concern for occupational tests.
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            07-18-2012, 6:30 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_ssr View Post
Semi off topic, but around here the general occupational drug test isn't really looking for PEDs, LOL! Not that I condone roids or HGH use, just saying I don't think they are a concern for occupational tests.
Interesting...learn something new every day! Not going that route though, too many side effects.
Old    Jarrod Perkins (jperkinsttu)      Join Date: Mar 2008       07-18-2012, 6:52 PM Reply   
Kinda weird to some but if you start looking into the meal plans that the guys in crossfit use. Some get crazy heavy into the paleo stuff but if you learn how, what and when to eat you'll feel a lot better. All natural is the way to go if you can make it work for you. If its a chore to eat then you probably will be more likely to stray. Just get a groove going and look at the small victories. I've been trying to just eat better and more natural for the past 8 months and havent felt better. Good luck to ya
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       07-19-2012, 7:24 AM Reply   
^^^ I agree.

"5k calories/day is way too much in my opinion. "

The formula mentioned above "Calories / pound of body weight" can't be applied to everyone. Everyone has different metabolic rates (the speed in which you convert food to energy), and different metabolic types (protein, carb, or mix type) The naturally lean guys with high meta. rates for example will have to eat more. For others with slower rates like myself, the same diet may be too much.

Here's a great, short lecture from one of the healthiest guys in the world. He talks about supplements, natural foods, and how you should eat post workout. He does all of his own research, and he's not trying to sell anything!

Even though he is a "Protein Type" he recovers with carbs for best results, which is consistent with my experience.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       07-19-2012, 10:54 AM Reply   
Oops....the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSxZHH24kZk
Old    Fat-B (lugwrench)      Join Date: Jul 2002       07-20-2012, 7:31 AM Reply   
J-Rod, do you have a link to any research on the skim milk vs. whole milk debate? I did some googling but only found the old, skim to cut calories and saturated fat anecdotes and I'm really interested in this. I drink a ton of milk, and I always drank skim, and have recently switched to 1% or 2% because I wasn't getting enough fat in my diet. I was always big into protein shakes as well but if I could eliminate those in favor of whole milk it seems like the better option.

Thanks
Old    Pound (snyder)      Join Date: Feb 2006       07-20-2012, 7:45 AM Reply   
milk is for babies... lol.
Old    Pound (snyder)      Join Date: Feb 2006       07-20-2012, 7:49 AM Reply   
J-Rod, I think the protein vs. carbs for recovery also depends on the type of workout you're doing. likely the best solution is a mix of both. It's not like you have to choose them mutually exclusively. Yes, you need carbs to replenish glycogen stores, and stop catabolic state. but also need protein for muscle building. (hence bulking as OP is looking to do). right? (again, i'm not expert)
Old    Pound (snyder)      Join Date: Feb 2006       07-20-2012, 7:57 AM Reply   
re-watched the video posted above... he says same thing. mix of prot/fat/carbs post w-o. (although, he kinda lost me when he said canned juice is poison, that's a bit extreme but i get his point).
Old    Jarrod Perkins (jperkinsttu)      Join Date: Mar 2008       07-20-2012, 10:46 AM Reply   
All he's trying to say is the less ingredients the better. Orange juice should just be the juice of an orange and so on. If you get into it deep like my wife has been lately you'll see a lot of the same chemicals they are putting into some foods are the same as household and automobile products. Different levels of course but still crazy to find out what all goes into that crap to keep it from going bad too soon. You can't always eat perfect and that's the way I look at it now. All I try and do is eat the best I can when I control it.
Old    Steve - O (misteve)      Join Date: Aug 2007       07-26-2012, 1:21 PM Reply   
http://blackironbeast.com/

I use the 5/3/1 calculator to get the programming and percentages for my lifts. You could probably start with the "Starting Strength" like someone else posted earlier. It's nice to just write the numbers down and shut up and do what I'm told !
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       07-26-2012, 3:13 PM Reply   
"J-Rod, I think the protein vs. carbs for recovery also depends on the type of workout you're doing. likely the best solution is a mix of both. It's not like you have to choose them mutually exclusively. Yes, you need carbs to replenish glycogen stores, and stop catabolic state. but also need protein for muscle building. (hence bulking as OP is looking to do). right? (again, i'm not expert) "

I totally agree. If hypertrophy is the goal, than more protein may be called for to assist with new tissue.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       07-26-2012, 3:29 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lugwrench View Post
J-Rod, do you have a link to any research on the skim milk vs. whole milk debate? I did some googling but only found the old, skim to cut calories and saturated fat anecdotes and I'm really interested in this. I drink a ton of milk, and I always drank skim, and have recently switched to 1% or 2% because I wasn't getting enough fat in my diet. I was always big into protein shakes as well but if I could eliminate those in favor of whole milk it seems like the better option.

Thanks
I have an old Paul Chek lecture at home that talks about the importance of raw milk vs. pasteurized. Long story short, the more fat they pull out, the more processed it is, the less nutrients it provides. Enzymes, bacterias, and other nutrients are removed. Homogenized, pasteurized, non-fat milk is basically dead, and nutrient free. http://www.raw-milk-facts.com/raw_mi..._benefits.html

The milk debate is a big one though. Some believe that we should not be consuming the milk and hormones of another species at all, and that it contributes to our nations help problems.

A lot of this is covered in this DVD also
https://chekandpps.infusionsoft.com/...?productId=464
Old    Pound (snyder)      Join Date: Feb 2006       08-02-2012, 11:18 AM Reply   
This is as good a thread as any for this i think.

Does anyone eat Kashi GoLean cereal?

Holy Crop Duster Batman. That stuff gives me the most horrid gas imaginable. And apparently it's not just me.
http://www.pleasegodno.com/archives/...ning-gas..html

I've been killing my family (and myself) lately. I think I even saw the lady behind me in traffic holding her nose on the way in to work the other day.

Bye Bye Kashi. Too bad too; I love cereal and it seemed like a good alternative to lucky charms.

Just thought I'd share... lol.
Old    Pound (snyder)      Join Date: Feb 2006       08-02-2012, 11:21 AM Reply   
by the way, how's the bulking going LR3w8kbrdr ?
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            08-02-2012, 7:02 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by snyder View Post
by the way, how's the bulking going LR3w8kbrdr ?
Its going...trying to get into my routine still and find whats going to be the best way. Biggest problem I have is I travel for work, so prepping all my meals seems to be the biggest challenge so i can maintain my high calorie intake. Ive figured out I can mix egg whites into my morning smoothie to get those down. Still trying to get used to the oatmeal part lol

Ive also come to realize that Im not giving myself enough rest between workouts bc I refuse to give up paddleboarding 2-3 days/week on top of 2-3x/week wakeboarding.

I just dont want to get burned out too quick. Im def getting a full 8hrs of solid sleep and my drinking/going out has been cut back drastically bc Ive been exhausted.

Energy drinks have been kicked thus far.

Once I get myself a new grill I'll hit up my local market to buy more red meat.
Old    matt moss (mossy44)      Join Date: Oct 2001       08-03-2012, 12:40 PM Reply   
I dont have time to read the entire thread right now but when I followed the P90x diet, a leaned up big time. I was ripped, but didnt put on any weight or very much muscle. Since then, I have started crossfit 5 days a week and been eating Paleo. Eat 3 main meals and eat until I am full. Some days I have a snack in the morning and sometimes in the afternoon. I also drink protein shakes. I have put on 12 lbs of solid muscle. I have weighed right at 150 pretty much for the past 15 years. I am now 163 or so. Sorry I didnt get to read everything above, just thought I would tell you my experience.
Old    Adam Curtis (acurtis_ttu)      Join Date: May 2004       08-07-2012, 8:13 AM Reply   
google "protien pancakes" I hate oatmeal too, lol. but this is a great way to get it in your diet. I travel for work too...and pack food with me. Protien pancakes travel fairly well. When traveling, my diet is usually the best it ever is. Luckily my boss knwos how I eat...company foots the bill, so I'll typcially find a couple restaurants I like that can "custom" make my food the way I want it. By the end of the week, they usually know me by name, lol. It's takes some planning, but easier than preparing my own food at home. It's as clsoe as i'll ever come to having a perosnal chef
Old    PAUL (pnichols)      Join Date: Jan 2007       08-07-2012, 11:31 AM Reply   
snyder...after reading that link I went out and bought me a box. I couldn't wait to try it, so I ate some at work. Hopefully this will kick in before I go home. A co-worker of mine is always farting and points his fan in my direction. time for some payback.
Old    Pound (snyder)      Join Date: Feb 2006       08-07-2012, 2:17 PM Reply   
Let us know how that worked out. I just told my wife last night that i enjoy a good productive fart as much as any man or boy, but it even annoyed me! It took a full day to be out of my system.

Specifically, this is the offending cereal
Attached Images
 
Old    PAUL (pnichols)      Join Date: Jan 2007       08-08-2012, 11:27 AM Reply   
Worked better then I expected. Took about three hours to kick in and it was an amazing amount of gas. I've never experienced anything like it. I bought an extra box to take with me to the lake this weekend, on our guys trip. Heading to Norris lake and it's about a 4 hour drive. I plan on eating a giant bowl a couple hours before we take off.
Old    Pound (snyder)      Join Date: Feb 2006       08-09-2012, 6:47 AM Reply   
dude, that's nasty! and funny as hell. good luck.
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            09-10-2012, 3:01 PM Reply   
Giving you an update...no way in h e double hockey sticks will this work for me. Im burning too many calories & unable to consume anymore than 3,500/day. I physically cant take in anymore. I cant give up my paddleboarding & sport leagues. The more I eat the quicker it comes out or the more craps I have to take lol

I respect people who do it, but it kinda restricts someone who isnt in a routine for work or his activities.
Old    Adam Curtis (acurtis_ttu)      Join Date: May 2004       09-12-2012, 2:06 PM Reply   
lol....trying to eat clean, and be very active , like you are, is another full time job....it's very tough.

just trying to take in enough calories can be a challenge. Ever see the pic's of Michael phelps after the olympics.....after he stopped training he gained about 25lbs. He supposedly hates working out...and his diet is mainly junk food.
Old    Sean M (magic)      Join Date: Mar 2002       09-13-2012, 12:24 PM Reply   
I was talking to buddy of mine yesterday that used to compete. He was talking about eating 5.5lbs of lean meat a day to prep for a competition. He figured it took him $10K a show to prep between food and "gear"... and I thought my triathlon habit was bad enough.

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