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Old    Jay (parkcityxj)      Join Date: Mar 2001       07-18-2012, 8:35 PM Reply   
I went out on a buddy's brand new MB B52 21 today, he's had it a few weeks and has put 20 hours on it. He's a newb to boating/wake boarding and had never ridden with full ballast so he never realized the problem. We filled up the ballast 100% and it wouldn't plane, this is not even pulling a rider! We had three women in the bow and three people in the cockpit. I'm assuming this thing came with wrong prop, because the boat performed great with no ballast. We are at about 6,000 ft above sea level.

He's going to call the dealer tomorrow, but I find it pretty odd that it wouldn't plane with just the stock ballast and seven people on board.

Any suggestions?
Old    GD (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-18-2012, 8:57 PM Reply   
What year is the boat?

When I bought my 2012, they recommmended I get the trimtab if I was going to run at altitude.

I run at sea level but got the trimtab just in case since it was a relatively inexpensive option and much more difficult to add after the fact.

In 2012, they also added more "hook" to the rear of the hull to help it get up and not porpoise.
Old    Jay (parkcityxj)      Join Date: Mar 2001       07-18-2012, 9:12 PM Reply   
It's a 2012 and has the trim tab. I had him put the trim all the way up when he was having trouble. The more the I think about it, he said the trim gauge wasn't working and was getting a new gauge. I'm wondering if infact the tab itself wasn't working. It was a quick session and I didn't get to spend any time trouble shooting. We ended up just surfing and it was great, the wave didn't seem like the trim was all the down though. From my experience in other boats when the trim is all the way down it's makes the wave washy and spray, his wave was really clean.

Last edited by parkcityxj; 07-18-2012 at 9:16 PM.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-18-2012, 9:28 PM Reply   
If you are having an issue planing you want to run the tab all the way down. This will push the back of the boat up and the bow down helping the boat to plane. Then slowly bring the tab up as the boat planes to reduce the drag.
Old    Tal Cloud (Kingsriver)      Join Date: Aug 2011       07-18-2012, 9:37 PM Reply   
If you are running at 6000 feet and you have stock engine and not a 409 or bigger you may have problems plaining with stock prop. I agree will need to play with trim tabs to push the nose down and you may want to run less ballast at high elevation. I run my boat at 800 and 6000 with a 409 and when we load her up at 6000' it runs much harder to get on plain because we are running a low altitude prop at 6000 feet. Good luck.
Old    Jay (parkcityxj)      Join Date: Mar 2001       07-18-2012, 9:38 PM Reply   
I just realized that it should be down and I talked to my buddy since I posted this. He said the tab is supposed to reset itself in the down position every time the boat comes to a stop. I'm wondering if it's the tab and wrong prop combo.

I have no idea what engine he has, I can guarantee he doesn't either lol. I'm assuming it's the base engine.

Last edited by parkcityxj; 07-18-2012 at 9:43 PM.
Old    B Beasley (ProvoMB52)      Join Date: Nov 2011       07-18-2012, 9:52 PM Reply   
You're probably boating at Jordanelle. The engine will make a difference, and if the prop is an ACME 1355, rather than the ACME 1433, the boat will struggle at altitude, with a full load. As for the wake plate, the "trim tab" will not reset itself to the down position when the boat comes to a stop. In fact the tab, if it is working correctly, will return to the up position when power is removed from the boat (key off).

As others have said, and no need to pile on here, the tab will be most helpful if it's down when starting out, but is not intended for wake shaping on the MB's.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       07-19-2012, 6:45 AM Reply   
Stock Prop + FUll Ballast + 1500lbs of people + 6k altitude + Trim plate all the way up = wont plane right
Old     (TheSqueakyWheel)      Join Date: Oct 2010       07-19-2012, 7:03 AM Reply   
1. The tab defaults to full up every time you turn off the boat
2. What prop are you running, the Acme 1433? That should be acceptable. My neighbor has no problem planing his 21TC with full stock ballast, 500# in the nose and human weight for wakeboarding with the PCM 340 at 5000' here in CO
3. I have the 24TC with the 410hp Indmar at 5000'. The stock 1433 was sufficient, but I went with the Acme 15"x12" pitch which far better
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       07-19-2012, 7:26 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_mn View Post
Stock Prop + FUll Ballast + 1500lbs of people + 6k altitude + Trim plate all the way up = wont plane right
LOL, you got some big people in MN if 3 guys and 3 girls = 1500lbs!
Old    Jay (parkcityxj)      Join Date: Mar 2001       07-19-2012, 7:55 AM Reply   
The lake that we were at (Deer Creek) is actually only 5,400'. The boat also struggled big time with even with about 1/2 ballast pulling his 150lb son. I was only in the boat for about an hour and I'd never been on it it before. We probably had about 900 lbs of people in it- three small women, two men, and two kids.

He's going to call and maybe take it to the dealer today. I can see the wakeplate having effects on plane time, but to be not even close to planing while plowing at 4,500 rpm at 15 mph seems pretty ridiculous to me esp with a small load.
Old     (TheSqueakyWheel)      Join Date: Oct 2010       07-19-2012, 7:57 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by parkcityxj View Post
The lake that we were at (Deer Creek) is actually only 5,400'. The boat also struggled big time with even with about 1/2 ballast pulling his 150lb son. I was only in the boat for about an hour and I'd never been on it it before. We probably had about 900 lbs of people in it- three small women, two men, and two kids.

He's going to call and maybe take it to the dealer today. I can see the wakeplate having effects on plane time, but to be not even close to planing while plowing at 4,500 rpm at 15 mph seems pretty ridiculous to me esp with a small load.
Jay,
I agree - unless he's vastly underpropped, something else is wrong. The wakeplate doesn't have nearly that much effect.
Old    B Beasley (ProvoMB52)      Join Date: Nov 2011       07-19-2012, 8:51 AM Reply   
There's also a couple of other things to consider. Does the owner know what max RPM's he gets without ballast, at WOT? He should be seeing somewhere between 5300-5500 rpm's. If not that would indicate perhaps a prop issue, but could also be an indication of something else going on. I know the guys at Reboats will be very willing to help figure out whatever is going on. Mike, Jason, and Dylan, are all great to work with, and they really know their stuff.


In the end, the boat your friend has, when running right, propped correctly, and in the right trim, should perform very well, either at Deer Creek, Jordanelle, Lake Powell, or anywhere in between
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       07-19-2012, 9:01 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProvoMB52 View Post
There's also a couple of other things to consider. Does the owner know what max RPM's he gets without ballast, at WOT? He should be seeing somewhere between 5300-5500 rpm's. If not that would indicate perhaps a prop issue, but could also be an indication of something else going on. I know the guys at Reboats will be very willing to help figure out whatever is going on. Mike, Jason, and Dylan, are all great to work with, and they really know their stuff.


In the end, the boat your friend has, when running right, propped correctly, and in the right trim, should perform very well, either at Deer Creek, Jordanelle, Lake Powell, or anywhere in between
depends which motor -- redline on the ex343 is 5300 so at that altitude he really probably shouldn't be propped to see the redline.
Old    Robby Williams (boatswaiyn)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-19-2012, 9:07 AM Reply   
This may be a dumb question, but was the speed control on or off? I was boarding one time and a friend of mine who had never driven my boat before didn't realize that the perfect pass was set for surfing and he was fighting against it and the boat would not plane or go above 15 mph.
Old    B Beasley (ProvoMB52)      Join Date: Nov 2011       07-19-2012, 11:15 AM Reply   
Shawn,
Thanks for the info on the 343 redline. I thought somewhere around 5300-5500 would be the number. However altitude is absolutely not a limiting factor to redline performance on an engine. If the number is 5300, then this particular boat should be propped to produce as near to that number as possible, without going over. 5200 would be a great number. If they go to a lower lake, and the rpm's increase because of the lower elevations, a simple re-prop would be the best way to guarantee maximum performance. I have the 409 on our 23' B52, and the 1433 works very well, for max performance. I would expect the 1433 to work well, but based on your numbers, I would think the 1355 would work better than is being described.

Boatswaiyn, Great thought! A new owner might not ever realize the Zero Off is on, and limiting the speed, although I would believe the initial hole shot would be sufficient to have the rider feel like the boat was performing well, before the Zero-off kicked in to limiting functions.
Old    Jay (parkcityxj)      Join Date: Mar 2001       07-19-2012, 11:21 AM Reply   
The first thing I checked was the Zero off, so that wasn't it. My buddy is good friends w/the Reboat owner, so he'll get it taken care of asap. It's really not a huge concern for him since they're all newbs and hadn't ridden w/ballast. I'm pushing for him to get it fixed asap so I can ride behind it , it's such a sick boat!
Old    Bruizza (bruizza)      Join Date: May 2009       07-19-2012, 2:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by parkcityxj View Post
I just realized that it should be down and I talked to my buddy since I posted this. He said the tab is supposed to reset itself in the down position every time the boat comes to a stop. I'm wondering if it's the tab and wrong prop combo.

I have no idea what engine he has, I can guarantee he doesn't either lol. I'm assuming it's the base engine.
I have never heard that the trim tab is supposed to reset itself to down every time the boat stops. I can guarantee you the one on my brother's 2012 23 TWB doesn't do that. It's a manual adjust trim tab as in you must push the button up and down yourself each time. That might be why he thinks his trim tab gauge is broken. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Also check out the Acme 1235 prop. We must swapped the 1433 for the 1235 on my bro's and it made a world of difference. Not that the boat was struggling before but you can tell a noticeable difference. We wakeboard at 5400ft of elevation. He has the ZR409 engine so the bigger option. It it's a bigger boat. We demoed the 21 footer at the same elevation and had zero trouble planing with full ballast and the trim tab with the base 343.
Old     (TheSqueakyWheel)      Join Date: Oct 2010       07-19-2012, 2:31 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizza View Post
I have never heard that the trim tab is supposed to reset itself to down every time the boat stops. I can guarantee you the one on my brother's 2012 23 TWB doesn't do that. It's a manual adjust trim tab as in you must push the button up and down yourself each time. That might be why he thinks his trim tab gauge is broken. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Also check out the Acme 1235 prop. We must swapped the 1433 for the 1235 on my bro's and it made a world of difference. Not that the boat was struggling before but you can tell a noticeable difference. We wakeboard at 5400ft of elevation. He has the ZR409 engine so the bigger option. It it's a bigger boat. We demoed the 21 footer at the same elevation and had zero trouble planing with full ballast and the trim tab with the base 343.
Bruizza,

Next time you are in your brother's boat, adjust the trim tab. Cut the engine completely, turn it back on. I've been in several new MBs (and own a 2013) and the tab on each resets automatically to the full UP position, not down, when you restart the engine.
Old    Bruizza (bruizza)      Join Date: May 2009       07-19-2012, 3:06 PM Reply   
I believe it does that. Maybe I misunderstood what he meant by a stop.
Old    SS (illini88)      Join Date: Oct 2007       07-19-2012, 7:59 PM Reply   
I think Ian over at onlyinboards repropped his B52 a few years ago. If i remember right, the change in prop made a world of difference. I'd call the factory to see wha tthey suggest.
Old     (TheSqueakyWheel)      Join Date: Oct 2010       07-19-2012, 8:08 PM Reply   
SS, I wouldn't bother with factory - call Acme directly if it's a prop issue, or wakemakers/wakeprops.com

I repropped my 24 with an Acme 2315 (went up 1" in diameter, down 2" in pitch) - it made a tremendous difference. Factory was not helpful.
Old    D.F.T.R. Josh (downfortheride)      Join Date: Jun 2005       07-19-2012, 10:06 PM Reply   
2012 F21 owner and the plate does reset to the up position every turn key off. I have the 1433 and ran into the same problem with full ballast, full gas, and a full boat with the plate. The smaller engine at high elevation has it's limits. Hell we did my bro's 409 with the plate last year (with a **** ton of weight) and it didn't get on plane. UT I have to dump 1/4 and we're good with the 343. We hit Powell and full ballast and 6 adults with 450 in the nose we are maxed with the plate.

Beasley ~ I hope you're into fall riding! We need to get our boats out together and have a hell of a day on the water. I would love to test your 23' dialed to our 21' dialed and see the difference. Nothing but good vibes and words with this test. I just hit a bro up at Willard with his RZ4 with 2200 + pounds and compare with our F21 2200 pounds of ballast. Just a friendly meet up since I have heard some GOOD things about the Tige RZ4. Great thing about UT is our lakes and the inboards on the water. Hope to test and compare in a friendly manor.

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