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Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-14-2012, 4:05 PM Reply   
To me this is a totally new idea and shows some real innovation. Congratulations to Malibu and there engineers, the system looks to have some significant advantages over weight only surfing, especially for recreational surfer which is 95% of the surf market. Time will tell if it is a game changer but the potential is there for sure.
Old    Chase Tillett (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       07-14-2012, 4:11 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
1 This boat is weighted-So you have to drain it to dock unweighted.
So your saying that when you wakeboard you drain all the ballast just to dock? Wow lol
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-14-2012, 4:18 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattieK27 View Post
Please please please show me what calculations you used to determine a small tab on the side of the transom somehow makes a boat use more fuel than 1000 extra lbs of surf ballast.

Love armchair physics...
It's already weighted with 1200 lbs. Then the DRAG ARM is deployed creating more drag. I fill up 600 Lbs in my rear surf side and go with half the weight and much less drag. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out this calculation so you should be able to do the math.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       07-14-2012, 4:23 PM Reply   
With surf gate you weigh the boat evenly. No more listing to one side. The purpose is not to increase drag like a wedge. It will not cause you to burn more gas. It is a true innovation. The push of a button allows you to instantly produce a clean wave, and you can switch sides on the fly.

Robert, why talk about something that you don't know anything about?
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-14-2012, 4:23 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tn_rider View Post
So your saying that when you wakeboard you drain all the ballast just to dock? Wow lol
I dock when I'm done wake boarding. So yes I drain ballast before I dock. But usually I ride without ballast as I don't really need it to clear the wake. Even at 95' rope length. I guess some people need the weight.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       07-14-2012, 4:26 PM Reply   
I really want to respond to your last post about clearing the wake at 95ft with no ballast, and discuss why it only reinforces everyone's opinion that you don't know what you are talking about. I just dont have the energy. I'm not being mean here. Just being real.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-14-2012, 4:29 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattwake View Post
With surf gate you weigh the boat evenly. No more listing to one side. The purpose is not to increase drag like a wedge. It will not cause you to burn more gas. It is a true innovation. The push of a button allows you to instantly produce a clean wave, and you can switch sides on the fly.

Robert, why talk about something that you don't know anything about?
Have you tested the boat with and without the Surfgate deployed? Figured the fuel consumption both ways?Did you help design it too?When you put a paddle in the water to turn a canoe it doesn't create drag either does it?
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-14-2012, 4:35 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
It's already weighted with 1200 lbs. Then the DRAG ARM is deployed creating more drag. I fill up 600 Lbs in my rear surf side and go with half the weight and much less drag. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out this calculation so you should be able to do the math.
So you are telling me that you have a surf wake that is that good with only 600lbs of ballast?

I would love to see you provide any calculation of drag your boat creates in comparison to the drag created by surf gate. Hell I would love to see you calculate the drag created by just the surf gate; I mean if its so simple and all.

Quit running your mouth, go enjoy your Tige, and just know every time you open your mouth on this board you are hurting the brand you so passionately support.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
Have you tested the boat with and without the Surfgate deployed? Figured the fuel consumption both ways?Did you help design it too?When you put a paddle in the water to turn a canoe it doesn't create drag either does it?
Have you tested a boat with and without surfgate? Figured the fuel consumption both ways? Did you help design it too? When you load up a barge it doesn't sink the hull further down in the water and create drag either does it?

Seriously, just stop.

Last edited by MattieK27; 07-14-2012 at 4:40 PM.
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-14-2012, 4:41 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattwake View Post
I really want to respond to your last post about clearing the wake at 95ft with no ballast, and discuss why it only reinforces everyone's opinion that you don't know what you are talking about. I just dont have the energy. I'm not being mean here. Just being real.
+1
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-14-2012, 4:48 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
+1
Yes I fill the rear surf side with 600 lbs of weight and have a surf wave with plenty of push even 10 to 12 foot behind the deck. I use 3 to 3.5 gallons of fuel a hour surfing.Consumption varies with speed (rpm).
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       07-14-2012, 5:52 PM Reply   
I welcome innovation, I want to see a video showing how it all works. It looks ugly out of the water but that's not a big deal if it works well. Does the flap extend perpendicular to the hull or does it come in and one stays out?
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       07-14-2012, 6:00 PM Reply   
Dan, I see your point and understand that to get a surf wave dialed it takes a lot of time and experimentation. Apparently with this system, you are supposed to load the boat up for wakeboarding and then to surf you just engage the gate? No more listing the boat from side to side. Not sure if the perfect slammed wakeboarding wake will produce the perfect surf wave once the gate is added, but I am sure since all the malibu ballast with plug n play is on switches (now 1" hose and bigger pumps) you can quickly dial it in by adjusting ballast quickly. So thats the theory i guess.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-14-2012, 6:05 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattieK27 View Post
So you are telling me that you have a surf wake that is that good with only 600lbs of ballast?

I would love to see you provide any calculation of drag your boat creates in comparison to the drag created by surf gate. Hell I would love to see you calculate the drag created by just the surf gate; I mean if its so simple and all.

Quit running your mouth, go enjoy your Tige, and just know every time you open your mouth on this board you are hurting the brand you so passionately support.




Have you tested a boat with and without surfgate? Figured the fuel consumption both ways? Did you help design it too? When you load up a barge it doesn't sink the hull further down in the water and create drag either does it?

Seriously, just stop.
I haven't been running my mouth. I've been pushing buttons,evidentially one of them was yours.
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-14-2012, 6:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
I haven't been running my mouth. I've been pushing buttons,evidentially one of them was yours.
You think you're being cute, but the act is old. You are running your mouth, it's annoying; hence my comments. Good job though dodging my questions and challenges by claiming your pushing my buttons. Prove me wrong Tige fan boy, prove me wrong.
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       07-14-2012, 6:52 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
I dock when I'm done wake boarding. So yes I drain ballast before I dock. But usually I ride without ballast as I don't really need it to clear the wake. Even at 95' rope length. I guess some people need the weight.
Wow been reading this tool bags comments, and this one actually made me laugh. Time to ignore his ignorance and get back on the topic of this very innovative approach to surfing. I know mister "i don't need ballast to clear at 95ft" is threatened by it, but I have to say this summer has been great by many of the wake boat companies and I'm loving every minute of it!!
Old    E (22vdrive)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-14-2012, 8:09 PM Reply   
How big and long is the z3? Wouldn't its added size add more weight, just saying! As far as being able to switch sides in seconds; who wouldn't want that I know I would. That's like saying you prefer dial-up as opposed to broadband. Progression is potentially happening here it will at least if anything be fun to see if the system ends up working. Hopefully it does and if it doesn't then don't buy one. I can't wait till someone besides Malibu marketing gets there hands on one and does a real world review on it.
Old    Tim C (lifetimewarranty)      Join Date: Oct 2008       07-14-2012, 8:31 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamp View Post
. I never have sugar.
Wake aside...are you an alien? Have some sugar man! My a.d.d. Loves it!

Re the boat... Nice job Malibu!

Cwbfor me do yourself a favor and ban yourself from this thread. You look like a tool.
Old    Dax Jolly (volzalum)      Join Date: May 2009       07-14-2012, 10:20 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
Yes I fill the rear surf side with 600 lbs of weight and have a surf wave with plenty of push even 10 to 12 foot behind the deck. I use 3 to 3.5 gallons of fuel a hour surfing.Consumption varies with speed (rpm).
Just curious, since when is 10-12 feet considered a long pocket? That's barely twice the length of my board, not a very good surf wave in my opinion ...
Old    Adam Perez (adamp)      Join Date: Mar 2011       07-14-2012, 10:22 PM Reply   
Ohh robert, just so you know... I need to update my profile on here. I have not worked for Malibu since March 27th... So my job is not to sell anymore... I am a true believer of the surf gate system. Danny Gasper is an amazing engineer and Malibu has a great product. I was there for 8 years and was fortunate enough to be around during the development, r&d and I even got to test it, but I was not around for it's official release. So there goes your theory of me just trying to sell, I have nothing to gain from supporting this and sharing how awesome the system is... Except my own personal excitement for such a great innovation.
Old    Chase Tillett (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       07-14-2012, 10:41 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamp View Post
Ohh robert, just so you know... I need to update my profile on here. I have not worked for Malibu since March 27th... So my job is not to sell anymore... I am a true believer of the surf gate system. Danny Gasper is an amazing engineer and Malibu has a great product. I was there for 8 years and was fortunate enough to be around during the development, r&d and I even got to test it, but I was not around for it's official release. So there goes your theory of me just trying to sell, I have nothing to gain from supporting this and sharing how awesome the system is... Except my own personal excitement for such a great innovation.
He accuses you of trying to sell it but yet brings up tige in a thread about MALIBU'S SURFGATE then writes a book about how he gets his rocks off to tige....I want to learn more about SURFGATE so if you want to bring up the T word start a new thread.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       07-15-2012, 12:04 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattieK27 View Post
Please please please show me what calculations you used to determine a small tab on the side of the transom somehow makes a boat use more fuel than 1000 extra lbs of surf ballast.

Love armchair physics...
Umm, please show me your calculations that say the surf tab = 1000 lbs of ballast, that's like tiges original marketing ploy with taps, no weight required! Lol!

This is a sweet innovation, one I will likely never experience... I don't surf mackin waves, but I do try to sink my familys old 2100i and it surfs well for a D/D, its fun. I'm interested to see the results of this technology with a slammed out boat- weighted evenly and then see both sides surf wake to see if they are better than the "best" surf wakes in the industry- which take 15 minutes to switch sides...
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-15-2012, 3:31 AM Reply   
You guys are a riot. I give you some facts to think about and you say I'm comparing this boat to a Tige. Anytime I bring up anything you say prove it,why? Because you guys know everything. I am using basic facts that a third grader could comprehend and your arguing without facts or proof of your opinions. What makes your opinions right? I guess when you know everything your always right. What's funny is others have questioned the operation and effectivness of Surfgate yet you don't question their opinions. I guess I should have used a MB or Nautique for comparison,since I've surfed behind them also.
Old    Ktrent (ktrent)      Join Date: Jul 2010       07-15-2012, 5:56 AM Reply   
this post has gone off path so far it should be deleted and restarted with some real post about a real cool new device that malibu has created. no one should be allowed to talk about fuel per hour at all because lets face the facts. it one can spend 90 grand on a boat fuel should not be a problem to buy and if it is maybe one should rethink buying a 90 grand boat.

lets get back on topic here guys and talk about the wave and the coolness of the surfgate. maybe some guys that has rode it would tell the difference more or less weight will make. could we list the boat with weight and use the surfgate combined to make a super wave. i hope you get my point, stuff that matters.
Old    Michael Hunter (mhunter)      Join Date: Mar 2008       07-15-2012, 6:31 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
It's funny when I ask a legitimate question or pose possible flaws I'm the bad guy.When one of the chosen few say anything no matter how BS it is it's gospel.I guess you have to consider the source?
Truer words were never written. Only the opinions of some are valid here.

I have no skin in this game . I have nothing for or against Malibu. I wish they would just introduce the thing . All these videos show nothing . How about some real information showing how it works , when its available and what it costs?
Old    Brendan (CarFanatic5)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-15-2012, 6:35 AM Reply   
Seriously. This thread is rediculous. The fact that Malibu is listening and knew they needed to do something to try and get wakesurfers to look at there brand is smart. I'm glad they are pushing the technology. I hope they continue to do so and make surf specific boats. We all know other brands out there are know to be better surf boats. I'm just glad manufacturers are finally hearing how big surfing is becoming and the need for boat specific designs.
Old    Dave Diaz (wakebrdr94)      Join Date: Jul 2010       07-15-2012, 7:01 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhunter View Post
Truer words were never written. Only the opinions of some are valid here.

I have no skin in this game . I have nothing for or against Malibu. I wish they would just introduce the thing . All these videos show nothing . How about some real information showing how it works , when its available and what it costs?
Obviously if you can't figure how the system works by the last video that was released, then you need to go watch again. I think it gives you the basics, if you needed an answer from an engineering stand point, you wouldn't be asking, you'd already know
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       07-15-2012, 7:08 AM Reply   
Serious question:

Does the surfgate have any mechanism- since these boats are all computerized already- to automatically retract when the boat is off plane? It looks like it could be in a vulnerable spot if you were pulling up to a dock, boat, or trailer...
Old    TJ (Houstonshark)      Join Date: Jan 2011       07-15-2012, 8:31 AM Reply   
Is it adjustable or is it all or nothing? It seems like you would really want to be able to adjust the position it's in based on ballast, # of people in the boat, riding style, etc.

How does it perform with no ballast? I think that's the real question.

We wakeboard mostly but will usually surf at the end of the day. Most of the time, after the last wakeboarding set, we can easily set up the surf ballast of 600lbs surf side rear, 150lbs non surf side rear and 400lbs bow (plus ~600lbs in the bow in Pop bags and stereo) while picking up the wakeboarder, putting up their board, getting the surf board and swapping ropes. It takes a little time if we have a goofy rider and need to switch sides but considering that we don't have a ton of ballast it doesn't take near as long as some.

I can see avid surfers being all over this since you could basically go from backing the boat off the trailer to surfing almost immediately as long as the gate was the main factor in the wake and not the ballast.

I'm pretty excited to hear some more about it and get some real reviews by end users. It's probably not the end all, be all for creating a nice surf wake on a boat but it seems to be a good step in the right direction! Is this the first surf specific innovation we've seen on boats?
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-15-2012, 8:36 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakebordr11 View Post
Umm, please show me your calculations that say the surf tab = 1000 lbs of ballast, that's like tiges original marketing ploy with taps, no weight required! Lol!
It was an example, way to get hung up on it. My point was he commented that "obviously" the wakegate will result in worse fuel consumption, without calculating drag of a boat that has x amount of ballast (or 1000lbs like I said) and drag of the surf gate, its not obvious.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
You guys are a riot. I give you some facts to think about and you say I'm comparing this boat to a Tige. Anytime I bring up anything you say prove it,why? Because you guys know everything. I am using basic facts that a third grader could comprehend and your arguing without facts or proof of your opinions.
You make claims a typical third grader would make with nothing to support them and absolute bias; still waiting on how you concluded there is more drag from the wakegate than a boat with surf ballast.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mhunter View Post
Truer words were never written. Only the opinions of some are valid here.

I have no skin in this game . I have nothing for or against Malibu. I wish they would just introduce the thing . All these videos show nothing . How about some real information showing how it works , when its available and what it costs?
Oh I would love to see your responses if this was a Nautique innovation. Again with the absolute bias. You guys crack me up. Have you two met each other?

Last edited by MattieK27; 07-15-2012 at 8:41 AM.
Old    Troy Deschamps (TroyD)      Join Date: Jan 2012       07-15-2012, 8:48 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhunter View Post
Truer words were never written. Only the opinions of some are valid here.

I have no skin in this game . I have nothing for or against Malibu. I wish they would just introduce the thing . All these videos show nothing . How about some real information showing how it works , when its available and what it costs?
As one of the chosen few I find your remarks tasteless and morally bankrupt.

Fact is if CC had come up with this innovation it would be akin to the second coming for you. As you said, you have no skin in this game, so right now your best virtue should be silence.
Old    Troy Deschamps (TroyD)      Join Date: Jan 2012       07-15-2012, 8:57 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattieK27 View Post
So you are telling me that you have a surf wake that is that good with only 600lbs of ballast?

I would love to see you provide any calculation of drag your boat creates in comparison to the drag created by surf gate. Hell I would love to see you calculate the drag created by just the surf gate; I mean if its so simple and all.

Quit running your mouth, go enjoy your Tige, and just know every time you open your mouth on this board you are hurting the brand you so passionately support.




Have you tested a boat with and without surfgate? Figured the fuel consumption both ways? Did you help design it too? When you load up a barge it doesn't sink the hull further down in the water and create drag either does it?

Seriously, just stop.
I can't figure out who is more devout to their brand? CWB4Me or MHunter? At least MHunters brand has a legitimate contender as soon as it's in production.
Old    Michael Hunter (mhunter)      Join Date: Mar 2008       07-15-2012, 9:20 AM Reply   
Troy I can always count on you for such insightful and informative comments.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       07-15-2012, 9:31 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroyD View Post
I can't figure out who is more devout to their brand? CWB4Me or MHunter? At least MHunters brand has a legitimate contender as soon as it's in production.
Man, have you ignored all the production G pics out there? They've done probably 15+ by now, get your head out of your ass, I've been on number 7, not proto number 7, prod number 7! People have ridden amateur contest behind it.

My point, mattie, was Rob doesn't know the facts, its clear you don't either, throwing around numbers like that is like tige with taps back in the day or Bu with the wedge- no ballast required, BS, don't get your panties in a bunch that I called out your unsupported analysis.

Disclaimer: I'm not a fanboy for any brand, fav surf wake, best one I've been on is an avalanche. I like the old SAN 210 wakeboard wake. Like Bu's and mastercrafts and my old tige gets the job done for me in every category, not close to the best by any means... But with 800 hrs and going strong, thank you family for having that boat!
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-15-2012, 10:11 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakebordr11 View Post

My point, mattie, was Rob doesn't know the facts, its clear you don't either, throwing around numbers like that is like tige with taps back in the day or Bu with the wedge- no ballast required, BS, don't get your panties in a bunch that I called out your unsupported analysis.
!
Its clear I don't either? Seriously? I ask him to provide data for the drag created by the Surfgate versus an arbitrary ballast number and now I'm supposedly making claims like taps and wedge did saying you don't need ballast with Surfgate? It was an arbitrary number, my point was he has no clue how to calculate any of it and assuming Surfgate creates more drag than a boat sacked out to surf is a joke. Panties in a bunch? Yea right.

I don't think anyone with half a brain (or those of us who "have a clue") thinks surfgate will work with zero ballast, but the ability to run wakeboard ballast surfing and change sides up quickly is a nice innovation.

PS: Hows that PE license going?

Last edited by MattieK27; 07-15-2012 at 10:17 AM.
Old    Troy Deschamps (TroyD)      Join Date: Jan 2012       07-15-2012, 10:46 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhunter View Post
Troy I can always count on you for such insightful and informative comments.
We have a mutual respect then.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       07-15-2012, 2:30 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhunter View Post
....I wish they would just introduce the thing . All these videos show nothing . How about some real information showing how it works , when its available and what it costs?
I hate that I am posting another response that has nothing to add to the surf gate discussion, I just can't pass this up. Mhunter, you are incredible. Once again you prove you have a very short memory. Nautique posted video's for at least a month with interviews from paid riders speaking vaguely about the new G23. No pictures, specifics, cost, options... nothing. However, you seemed to have no problem with those videos that "show nothing", to quote you.

The big 3 seem to like to hype up their new innovations, probably because they want everyone to have the same excitement that they do, after all their time (years) working on it. Earlier Tige released the Z3 almost out of nowhere and MB released their F24 the same way, no hype. Why don't you go join robert and jump on the Tige ship or MB bandwagon, apparently you approve of how they do things.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-15-2012, 5:44 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattieK27 View Post
Its clear I don't either? Seriously? I ask him to provide data for the drag created by the Surfgate versus an arbitrary ballast number and now I'm supposedly making claims like taps and wedge did saying you don't need ballast with Surfgate? It was an arbitrary number, my point was he has no clue how to calculate any of it and assuming Surfgate creates more drag than a boat sacked out to surf is a joke. Panties in a bunch? Yea right.

I don't think anyone with half a brain (or those of us who "have a clue") thinks surfgate will work with zero ballast, but the ability to run wakeboard ballast surfing and change sides up quickly is a nice innovation.

PS: Hows that PE license going?
How much more data do you need? I told you i have just as clean and long of a wave as in the video.I use 600 lbs in the rear surf corner.Malibu stated they had 1200 lbs plus surf gate. Yes most third graders can do that math. Weight equals drag ALSO THE GATE CREATES DRAG.
Old    Bill K (bill_airjunky)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-15-2012, 6:04 PM Reply   
I happened to talk to Murphy tonite about a different subject & he asked me if I'd heard about this thread. I read him some of the BS you guys are saying & we laughed a little about it.

The video is hardly a commercial. He intentionally leaked this info out on a cell phone video shot by his nephew Tony. He's in talks with several boat manufacturers about them using it in their own boats. The limitations are endless..... seals in the gates, ballast all the way into the bow, automating it into that manufactures speed control system, finishing the inside of the tanks, etc. But those are all details the boat manufacturer will work out & not something he gets into. He does not build boats, but has lots of contacts with the various boat builders.
Old    David Williams (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       07-15-2012, 6:43 PM Reply   
I got a chance to watch a prototype of the Surf Gate in action this weekend out in Tampa after the Red Bull Wake Open. It was pretty weird to see such a huge wakesurf wake with the boat sitting perfectly level. It was a bit windy, rough and late in the day, so we didn't get much time to check it out, but it appears to be a pretty impressive piece of engineering and a lot simpler than I had envisioned. I just put up a press release on it with a pic: http://www.wakeworld.com/news/latest...echnology.html

It's really crazy how much boats are getting pushed from all the manufacturers this year. I can't remember a year when we've seen anywhere close to this much innovation. Very exciting!!
Old    Craig Emerton (craigtxmc)      Join Date: Oct 2008       07-15-2012, 9:36 PM Reply   
All I know is that I've been selling boats since 2005 and I can't remember a time when there were more big releases, new innovations, new models, etc...
The Star, G23, surrf gate, new Supra, x30, MXZ, newer G 25, Murphy's new quick fill, and a few others coming out soon this fall.. It really is exciting to see.
Congrats to all the guys... Should make everyone's sport they love grow.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       07-15-2012, 11:20 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_defacto View Post
I hate that I am posting another response that has nothing to add to the surf gate discussion, I just can't pass this up. Mhunter, you are incredible. Once again you prove you have a very short memory. Nautique posted video's for at least a month with interviews from paid riders speaking vaguely about the new G23. No pictures, specifics, cost, options... nothing. However, you seemed to have no problem with those videos that "show nothing", to quote you.

The big 3 seem to like to hype up their new innovations, probably because they want everyone to have the same excitement that they do, after all their time (years) working on it. Earlier Tige released the Z3 almost out of nowhere and MB released their F24 the same way, no hype. Why don't you go join robert and jump on the Tige ship or MB bandwagon, apparently you approve of how they do things.
mhunter exposed...
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       07-15-2012, 11:22 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhunter View Post
Troy I can always count on you for such insightful and informative comments.
What can we count on you for, mhunter? At least Troy's routine is funny. Yours is just plain tired. I honestly don't understand why you're is even in this thread other than to stir up drama.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       07-15-2012, 11:30 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
How much more data do you need? I told you i have just as clean and long of a wave as in the video.I use 600 lbs in the rear surf corner.Malibu stated they had 1200 lbs plus surf gate. Yes most third graders can do that math. Weight equals drag ALSO THE GATE CREATES DRAG.
"Data" is a strong word... I'm not so sure your interweb claims really meet the standard to be considered widely as "data." If I tell you that I can clear my wake with a 200' rope, can we consider that "data" too...?

Jokes aside... why are you so threatened by this new system? Does it make your boat any less capable? Honestly, I don't understand where all the hate comes from.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       07-15-2012, 11:52 PM Reply   
Okay, now that I have all ^^that^^ out of my system, I'm ready to comment on Surfgate.

Like everybody else in this thread, I have no idea what it's like to surf that wave. I wonder what folks will think of this wave a year from now after many have tried it. My guess is that most will like it (i.e. people like me who surf with stock ballast and people weight), but surf snobs will say it's inadaquate (i.e. people who surf with Enzo sacks and bags all over the floor). That latter group is hard to please. Sort of like DIY computer builders... if they didn't build it themselves, it must be crap.

But I will say this... my wife hates surfing.... although, it's not the actual surfing she hates. It's not even the time it takes to fill bags (we don't do that). It has more to do with the boat listing over to the side. She doesn't like driving it that way. Even as a passenger she complains of vertigo. I don't push the issue because quite frankly, I'm not that excited about surfing either. I think I could be if the wave was better, but to do that means more weight which would take time, occupy space, and make the listing to the side even more extreme. So I've pretty much stopped surfing. I find the entire process "high maintenance." I haven't even tried it once on my new VLX.

So... I am quite excited about the idea of a boat that can make a surfable wake w/out needing to list over to the side. Assuming this works as advertised, this is a game changer... for our family, anyway. I don't understand why everybody wouldn't be interested in this concept. Seriously, who wouldn't want a surf wave w/out having the boat slammed to once side?

This Surfgate thing might be enough to prompt another boat flip for the IXFE family! Shhhh... don't tell Mrs. IXFE.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-16-2012, 4:14 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ixfe View Post
"Data" is a strong word... I'm not so sure your interweb claims really meet the standard to be considered widely as "data." If I tell you that I can clear my wake with a 200' rope, can we consider that "data" too...?

Jokes aside... why are you so threatened by this new system? Does it make your boat any less capable? Honestly, I don't understand where all the hate comes from.
Go to you tube and type in CWB4ME i have a video of me doing a toeside 180 at 90' and a heel side jump at 95' on an unweighted boat.That is a fact not a claim. I was only going 23mph.This was to prove technique is more important than wake size.I guess you now need a video of my surf wake with only 600 lbs and just my wife driving.
Old    Michael Hunter (mhunter)      Join Date: Mar 2008       07-16-2012, 4:33 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luciano77 View Post
Just a little video of the new system. Picked the link from themalibucrew.com

http://www.surfgatewave.com/

Seems the system will be shown on 29/6/2012
Exposed???
As I recall the G was introduced on the day it was promised. All the hype happened before the intro date . The first post on this thread states the surfgate will be shown on 6/29/2012 what does that mean ?? As others have stated this has been another marketing failure similar to the Star. As I have said I have no skin in this game I wouldn't have bought a BU before and the surfgate dosnt change that. DBC I sorry if you felt a little threatened by my comments I never intended to put down your latest favorite brand . You find Troys comments amusing well I guess that says something about you?
Old    E (22vdrive)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-16-2012, 6:38 AM Reply   
C-3P0- no one cares that you clear your wake with no ballast at 95'. We add enormous amounts of weights to our boats not to help us over rather to boot us a high as possible. Your data is a joke and "facts" are a joke yet very entertaining!
Old    Troy Deschamps (TroyD)      Join Date: Jan 2012       07-16-2012, 6:44 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhunter View Post
Exposed???
As I recall the G was introduced on the day it was promised. All the hype happened before the intro date . The first post on this thread states the surfgate will be shown on 6/29/2012 what does that mean ?? As others have stated this has been another marketing failure similar to the Star. As I have said I have no skin in this game I wouldn't have bought a BU before and the surfgate dosnt change that. DBC I sorry if you felt a little threatened by my comments I never intended to put down your latest favorite brand . You find Troys comments amusing well I guess that says something about you?
Hype? What hype did CC generate, a leaked magazine picture? Fact is here we are 4 months later, with no production Gs and no one even talks about them anymore because it's like the Z3, forgettable. All that's left of the G23 is a skim of transmission oil on a lake somewhere. New XStar pulling new tricks every weekend and Malibu changing the surfing game, that's the news of 2012.
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-16-2012, 6:52 AM Reply   
Another great thread adhering to the topic at hand. I had more to say, but it got deleted. In my eyes, so should every post by CWB4Me, he once again took a thread about another boat company and steered in completely off course.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-16-2012, 6:55 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 22vdrive View Post
C-3P0- no one cares that you clear your wake with no ballast at 95'. We add enormous amounts of weights to our boats not to help us over rather to boot us a high as possible. Your data is a joke and "facts" are a joke yet very entertaining!
Technique will get you just as high with less weight.You don't need a 2-1/2 wave to get 8-10 feet of height.Remember your only going wake to wake on a 65- 70 ft rope.Harley Clifford rides on a 65' rope.Guys still think they need a longer rope and taller tower to get air.
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-16-2012, 6:59 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
Technique will get you just as high with less weight.You don't need a 2-1/2 wave to get 8-10 feet of height.Remember your only going wake to wake on a 65- 70 ft rope.Harley Clifford rides on a 65' rope.Guys still think they need a longer rope and taller tower to get air.
Yes, your right, technique will indeed make up for your boats shortcomings; whether due to the boat itself or an owner who doesn't weight it properly...
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            07-16-2012, 7:04 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroyD View Post
Hype? What hype did CC generate, a leaked magazine picture? Fact is here we are 4 months later, with no production Gs and no one even talks about them anymore because it's like the Z3, forgettable. All that's left of the G23 is a skim of transmission oil on a lake somewhere. New XStar pulling new tricks every weekend and Malibu changing the surfing game, that's the news of 2012.
R u crazy?? How many views and buzz was there before the magazine page was leaked? A **** ton! Get ur head out of ur...There are production G23s out as the people have said before!! U are obviously not on PN or Nautiques FB page. Most likely besides a few are not on WW....but there are still more than ur XStar! The first boat off the line had a transmission problem after 8k pounds of ballast, so frickin what.
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            07-16-2012, 7:05 AM Reply   
Kinda hard for other boats to pull new trivks in comps when Mastercraft is the official towboat in comps lol
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            07-16-2012, 7:08 AM Reply   
I was hoping to see surfgate this weekend out at the open, but the boat that had it im sure was the one in the water and I couldnt paddleboard close enough to see it firsthand. Ones on shore didnt have the surfgate.
Old    E (22vdrive)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-16-2012, 7:13 AM Reply   
C-3P0 do you truly believe that Harley Clifford or any pro rides their boat with no ballast? I think not.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-16-2012, 7:24 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 22vdrive View Post
C-3P0 do you truly believe that Harley Clifford or any pro rides their boat with no ballast? I think not.
No but i believe he uses technique to do tricks that most can't.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       07-16-2012, 7:29 AM Reply   
Back on topic.

The surfgate was on display at the Redbull Wake Open - so I'm assuming the cat's out of the bag, and I'll talk a little more about my impressions of the system. I got to spend a weekend behind an LSV with the surfgate system. It was a big group of us, with our kids, wives, boards, and all the stuff that goes along with that. We wanted to ride, surf, get from point A to point B, get the kids down for naps, pick people up at the dock, deal with boat traffic, etc. There was a lot that we wanted to do. I lay that background down, because I think it's important when considering what realistic impact I see this invention having on how people use their boats.

We were able to load up on the LSV (11 of us), fill the factory ballast, drop the wedge, and take turns riding (wakeboarding). When we were done riding, we wanted to take the kids surfing and let the wives surf. All we had to do was push a button to make that happen. We didn't have to drain any ballast, fill any ballast, move kids, wives, coolers, etc. to one side of the boat or the other. Nothing. Seriously, zero inconvenience. Zero hassle. You guys will just have to see this system work in person to appreciate it. It's extremely simple. The boat sits level in the water, just like when you're wakeboarding. At 11mph, the wave was big, meaty, and perfectly clean. The swim platform doesn't dig down into the water. The boat doesn't list or crab walk. You just drive straight and level and you have a perfect wave on one side. You can switch the wave from side to side with the push of a button. It litterally takes about 2-3 seconds for the wave to switch from regular to goofy. If you time it right, you can switch from side to side. It's really, really cool.

We were able to run through everyone who wanted to surf, both regular and goofy, without having any downtime moving people to one side of the boat or the other, pumping in or out any water, etc. When someone fell, you could easily turn left or right at idle speed and pick up the rider. There was no concern over shipping a roller over the side. Driving to pick up a rider who is regular foot forward was (to me) noticably easier, because, while sitting in the driver's seat, I was level with the water, and the boat wasn't leaning up and to the passenger side like I was used to, and I could pass the rider on the driver's side while seeing him/her clearly without having to stand up to do so.

When we were done surfing, we left the ballast in, ran the kiddos and wives back to the dock, and then took another round of sets on the wakeboard. We didn't have to pump in or out any water. Had it been a particularly long drive, we probably would have, but we didn't need to, because the boat wasn't leaning super hard to one side. As soon as the last kid was off the boat, we were able to just toss a handle to a rider and let him dockstart. The remainder of the weekend pretty much followed this routine. Some of you are young and have all the time in the world at your disposal. I would kill to be in that situation again. I have to make the most of what short down time I get. For the time it saved me alone in switching from surfing to wakeboarding, I love the surfgate system.

What are my initial real world impressions from spending a significant amount of time behind an LSV with the surfgate on it? Here they are:

(1) You can get a very nice wave out of an LSV with factory ballast, the wedge and the surfgate system deployed.
(2) People are still going to add weight to make the wave bigger.
(3) When adding 11 people to the factory ballast and wedge, the wave remained clean and just increased in size.
(4) At all times, with and without extra people, the wave had nice push and a long pocket.
(5) Being able to pull a surfer without having the boat list heavily to one side is much easier and, imo, much safer
(6) If you like to surf, there is a convenience factor here that cannot be adequately explained until you actually see and use a boat with this system on it.
(7) The purpose and effectiveness of the surfgate does not depend on increasing drag. It does not work like a wedge. I just don't believe that using the system will result in burning extra fuel.
(8) Being able to transition, very easily, from side to side, while riding, is really fun. People who are really good at surfing are going to create a whole new level of tricks with this system. I mean, imagine carving in hard, popping over the wave, and dropping in on the other side while a clean wave forms instantly under your feet.

Look, I'm not here saying that the surfgate is going to make me stop surfing behind my A22, and I'm not saying that it makes waves that you can get behind other boats inferior. It's just super, and I mean SUPER, convenient. It adds a level of safety by keeping the boat level. It adds the ability to transition from side to side while riding. It can be used with Robert's perfered 600lbs of ballast or with 3k in ballast. People are going to figure out how big they want their wave and weigh their boats accordingly.

I'm not going to try to lable the system as a "game changer". Blah blah blah. It is what it is. I'm just pumped that we're seeing more options being created and implemented, which have a direct impact on how we are able to use our boats, and what we can do with them. I really hope some people get a chance to demo this system themselves and chime in on this topic with usefull insight and with their own personal opinions.

Last edited by chattwake; 07-16-2012 at 7:36 AM.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       07-16-2012, 7:41 AM Reply   
By the way, here's a picture of one of the gates on an MXZ that was in Tampa this weekend. It is in the deployed position in this photo to demonstrate how it works.
Attached Images
 
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       07-16-2012, 7:45 AM Reply   
Great review Chatt.


One question I have - having the boat loaded with wakeboarding wake but riding at surf speed (10-11) - did you find the nose dipping more often? With a lot of weight in the nose (ballast + people) was there still enough bow ride at surf speed to keep the nose out of the water sufficiently? Seems the *only* concern I would have is dunking the nose riding slower with full nose ballast (+ people perhaps)..

The bickering in this thread is f'ing stupid.. Thankfully there are 7 legit posts out of 160 to make the thread worth the read.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       07-16-2012, 7:46 AM Reply   
... and can we please stop talking about clearing a wake at 95ft with no ballast. I mean, anyone who's strapped on a hydroslide from walmart knows that you can cut like a maniac at a small wake. Try to throw an invert when you're six inches off the water going a kabillion miles an hour and see how that works out for you.
Attached Images
 
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       07-16-2012, 7:49 AM Reply   
Jeff, we did not have that problem. We did not have the nose of the LSV slammed though. As a practical matter, if you're nose heavy, you're nose heavy, and need to be careful. The gate doesn't affect front to back tendencies.
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       07-16-2012, 8:01 AM Reply   
Nice review Chatt! Did you run the surf wave without using ballast or wedge? Just curious what that looked like. Also, did they say if they made any changes to the hull or is it just those "gates" that they added? Another question, can you turn on both sides at once and make a bigger wakeboarding wake?
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       07-16-2012, 8:03 AM Reply   
Robert - I think the horse is dead now fellow Tige owner, please stop beating it!
Old    Jon Hunter (hunter660)      Join Date: Aug 2007       07-16-2012, 8:05 AM Reply   
Thanks Chatt.
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            07-16-2012, 8:06 AM Reply   
So for those that were here in Tampa...did u guys get to surf it Saturday after the comp? How the wave without the wedge deployed? Just curious
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       07-16-2012, 9:08 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattwake View Post
Jeff, we did not have that problem. We did not have the nose of the LSV slammed though. As a practical matter, if you're nose heavy, you're nose heavy, and need to be careful. The gate doesn't affect front to back tendencies.
I realize that nose heavy is nose heavy - but typically running 23-26mph you have some bow rise. Just wondered where it "sat" in the water with full wake ballast at 10mph + wedge + surfgate.. You know?

It sounds fantastic. As someone with kids - I see the value that you are trying to relay above.
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       07-16-2012, 9:16 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_mn View Post
I realize that nose heavy is nose heavy - but typically running 23-26mph you have some bow rise. Just wondered where it "sat" in the water with full wake ballast at 10mph + wedge + surfgate.. You know?

It sounds fantastic. As someone with kids - I see the value that you are trying to relay above.
I actually think you'd have moer bow rise with full rear ballast at surf speeds. I know we run almost 1000lbs in our bow and we have decent bow rise just with the the back surf side locker full. The only bow dunking danger is turning around, but that can be midigated with letting the rollers pass before turning around to get the rider.

I don't surf much due to having to change the ballast over to goofy, or ride switch, so this seems like a seriously great option for me
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-16-2012, 9:18 AM Reply   
I wasn't beating a dead horse.I was talking to a brick wall.LOL Chatt explained it well and he and i can agree to disagree on fuel consumption since neither of us have acceptale DATA.I stated the math scenario because 600 is less than 1200. I stated the wake videos on you tube to Prove i wasn't making a BS statement.The chosen few will always take everything i say as negative or Tige praise.But in the real world i don't have any detractors.Actually i get along quite well with everyone.I just feel everyone on here already has a bad opinion of me even though i try to help others.I think the horse is starting to move again.
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-16-2012, 9:31 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
I wasn't beating a dead horse.I was talking to a brick wall.LOL Chatt explained it well and he and i can agree to disagree on fuel consumption since neither of us have acceptale DATA.I stated the math scenario because 600 is less than 1200. I stated the wake videos on you tube to Prove i wasn't making a BS statement.The chosen few will always take everything i say as negative or Tige praise.But in the real world i don't have any detractors.Actually i get along quite well with everyone.I just feel everyone on here already has a bad opinion of me even though i try to help others.I think the horse is starting to move again.
The fact you are allowed to continually cause arguments and drama with your passive aggressive statements on this site is a joke. Apparently there are no rules when you own a Tige...
Old    TJ (Houstonshark)      Join Date: Jan 2011       07-16-2012, 9:37 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
I wasn't beating a dead horse.I was talking to a brick wall.LOL Chatt explained it well and he and i can agree to disagree on fuel consumption since neither of us have acceptale DATA.I stated the math scenario because 600 is less than 1200. I stated the wake videos on you tube to Prove i wasn't making a BS statement.The chosen few will always take everything i say as negative or Tige praise.But in the real world i don't have any detractors.Actually i get along quite well with everyone.I just feel everyone on here already has a bad opinion of me even though i try to help others.I think the horse is starting to move again.
Old    TJ (Houstonshark)      Join Date: Jan 2011       07-16-2012, 9:50 AM Reply   
I've started passing the collection plate again Robert to get you out of the Tige and into a Malibu...best marketing dollars Tige could spend.
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       07-16-2012, 10:04 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
I wasn't beating a dead horse.I was talking to a brick wall.LOL
Whatever you want to call it...STOP! Please?
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-16-2012, 10:16 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Houstonshark View Post
I've started passing the collection plate again Robert to get you out of the Tige and into a Malibu...best marketing dollars Tige could spend.
How much have you collected so far? Should i start beating the horse again?
Old    TJ (Houstonshark)      Join Date: Jan 2011       07-16-2012, 10:57 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
How much have you collected so far? Should i start beating the horse again?
We're close. Waiting on pricing and availability for the Surf Gate option which I know you'll want...I'd zip it until the boat arrives...
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       07-16-2012, 11:06 AM Reply   
Seriously Robert?

How would you like it if you were talking to a friend about something you know about, like Snapon tools, and you were describing a new wrench that Snapon came out with that you believed was revolutionary in some form or fashion, and some random strange guy off the street barged into your conversation and was like, "hey, Hey, HEY!!!! Craftsman rules! I can build a treehouse with my Craftsman crescent wrench!" You'd probably just shake your head and roll your eyes and try to get back to what you were saying. Only, the same guy interupts you again, over and over and over, with "HEY! HEY YOU! Check out this Craftsman crescent wrench! I can take the tire off of a bike with this thing! Forget about that Snapon wrench I've never even seen. All you need is this Craftsman crescent wrench!" I'll bet you'd be pretty annoyed. Please. Think about this.



































Done?















































Shut up about Craftsman Robert. Nobody cares.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-16-2012, 11:25 AM Reply   
I'm still thinking.
Old    Mik (norcalrider)      Join Date: Jun 2002       07-16-2012, 12:15 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhunter View Post
...when its available and what it costs?
Also curious about this... Also is this something that can be retrofitted???
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       07-16-2012, 12:18 PM Reply   
It is available on the '13 BU's. I'm not sure on cost. I'll see if I can find out.
Old    Tyke Wilbur (dragracn)      Join Date: Jun 2008       07-16-2012, 12:44 PM Reply   
I don't post often and mostly lurk, but I've been following this thread more then most because I own a Malibu and will admit I follow a Malibu related threads more then some other threads, maybe this is "brand loyalty" as some of you call it? But I really don't consider myself to have Malibu goggles, or drink there Koolaid. I have been following the X-star and the G23 threads as well, (and am very impressed with the G23, and think it looks like a hell of a great boat, I couldn't afford the gas bill on one, let alone the boat itself thou). I do prefer Malibu over other boats just because I like the sleek lines they have, some like the edgy look of Axis, some prefer Mastercraft because its a "Mastercraft" and so on and so on, If we all liked the same thing the world would be a pretty boring place!! But MY GOD, if you admit you don't like "brand X", admit you don't want "brand X", think the innovations they come up with are not innovations, then why do you have to clutter up a thread with your post? I have tried to follow the X-Star and G23 threads but sort of lost interest in the blunder of **** throwing, I have stuck with this thread because it interest me a little more, but its beginning to be a waist of time. (as I'm sitting here wasting time replying???) PLEASE, STOP, STEP AWAY from the key board, and think before posting.

Now about the boat, I think its a great Idea, I don't think its the end to sinking boats with ballast, but do think its a big step in the rite direction, and will make it much safer for the average Joe. I can't wait to see some boats out in the real world with some more input from customers. I also can't wait to see some of the retrofits, that you know people are going to try with surf tabs mounted sideways!
Old    Dave Diaz (wakebrdr94)      Join Date: Jul 2010       07-16-2012, 12:50 PM Reply   
Hey Chatt,
So it doesn't crab the boat at all? I'm impressed. I would think that it would have to crab slightly in order to produce a surf wake on one side. Kind of like making a low speed turn, you get that clean wake on one side while it's washy on the other. You wouldn't need a lot of " crab" for this. I know it is all about water displacement to get the surf wake on one side, so is the tab slightly angled, or perfectly vertical?

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