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Old    sperbet            07-12-2012, 11:28 AM Reply   
So on the opposite end of Sydney's spectrum. I spent the last 2 years towing with a 1975 ford f350. It was cheap and got the job done.

However, I recently picked up a 2005 duramax 2500. All I can say is I will NEVER tow with an old POS truck again. The extra money is well worth it to me for the better ride, better pull and peace of mind that comes with driving a newer vehicle. I understand his point of view as it was just like mine until a month ago. At some point you start trading off repair bills for car payments and the difference isn't great enough to justify driving an old beater. To each his own.
Old    Pete (petrey10)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-12-2012, 11:28 AM Reply   
travis if you seriously think these guys pulling with diesels are spending more on gas than your 1500 then you my friend are ignorant and lying

you know how I know? Because I tow with gas and diesels everyday and if its a choice between "feeling" the back back there or not I would still pick the diesel any day of the week


My 07 Tundra(4.7l) which has more power and better efficiency 1500 only gets 10mpg (@ 65mph)when I tow my boat (2001 tige 20i) and thats on a good day on flat ground.... our 04 Dodge with the cummins? Yeah it gets 15 mpg on the same roads doing the same speed AND it tows that load a lot safer than the other truck.


Which is one reason we are trying to sell the 07 Tundra. Am I rich because I drive a diesel? HECK NO!!!!!! My whole rig probably cost less than most boats on this forum.

So before you open your mouth and blabber about something lets run through the price difference between gas and diesel.... right now my local station diesel is 5 cents more. It has been as much as 40 cents more and 10 cents LESS. Its volatile just like gas. So really diesel is cheaper....

Seems like a no brainer to me bro
Old    sperbet            07-12-2012, 11:31 AM Reply   
Oh, and in regard to a diesel being overkill for pulling wake boats. I think it depends where you live. I live at 6000' and pull up and down steep mountain grades. A gasser just does not get the job done like a diesel. Personally I don't see myself ever switching back.
Old    Chris (gravity)      Join Date: Jul 2009       07-12-2012, 11:44 AM Reply   
-----One day I pulled my head out of my ass, looked at how much my truck payment was, looked at how much MORE $ I was spending on gas than with the 1500, and said; "WTF am I doing?"-----


Why would you be putting "gas" in your diesel ?

America is great. We can burn fuel in any toy we want, so whats wrong with someone that has more money to so?
Old    Robby Elliott (Elliottsx80)      Join Date: Feb 2012       07-12-2012, 12:20 PM Reply   
i buy a new diesel every year to pull mine, and 90% of the time im pulling less than 20 miles to the lake round trip!!! its not that im stupid rich. i just need stupid tax right offs. and trucks are the easiest thing for me to right off. when i went to brostock last month i pulled my 80 up there using my d max and got 5.5 mpg. about 120 miles to a tank. yea im not going to lie that totally sucked spending 1500 in fuel alone up there and back. but it was all coming out of uncle sams pocket, because i right to fuel off to. my gas rigs dont get much better, my hummer sut. it gets about 6 mgp and i had to supercharge it, put better heads and bigger cam and larger injectors and 456 gears in the diffs, electric fan conversion and a 2000 dollar custom 4 core radiator to get that. and my 2010 escalade gets about 7mpg. the biggest reason why i stay with my diesel for pulling my boat, when i hook on to it, i like to set the cruise at 70 with the a/c cranked up and i dont have to worry about my truck shifting up and down 1 million times every time i hit a hill or have a strong head wind and it never over heats!!!
Old    Brendan (kybool)      Join Date: Aug 2004       07-12-2012, 12:47 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliottsx80 View Post
i buy a new diesel every year to pull mine, and 90% of the time im pulling less than 20 miles to the lake round trip!!! its not that im stupid rich. i just need stupid tax right offs. and trucks are the easiest thing for me to right off. when i went to brostock last month i pulled my 80 up there using my d max and got 5.5 mpg. about 120 miles to a tank. yea im not going to lie that totally sucked spending 1500 in fuel alone up there and back. but it was all coming out of uncle sams pocket, because i right to fuel off to. my gas rigs dont get much better, my hummer sut. it gets about 6 mgp and i had to supercharge it, put better heads and bigger cam and larger injectors and 456 gears in the diffs, electric fan conversion and a 2000 dollar custom 4 core radiator to get that. and my 2010 escalade gets about 7mpg. the biggest reason why i stay with my diesel for pulling my boat, when i hook on to it, i like to set the cruise at 70 with the a/c cranked up and i dont have to worry about my truck shifting up and down 1 million times every time i hit a hill or have a strong head wind and it never over heats!!!
Your DMax only got 5.5 MPG? That doesn't seem right even w a heavy foot and an X80.

I also towed with a old 1970 truck w/ a V8 gas, crew cab long bed heavy, heavy truck.. It was fun for a while but I was only getting 8-9 MPG, always breaking down and didn't feel comfortable with my family on longer trips. Heck, I got sick of breaking down, stopping for gas, no AC....so I also recently picked up a diesel truck. Still a long bed crew cab but getting closer to 14 MPG towing.

With that being said the old truck is for sale, interested?
Old    Anthonyv911 (tonyv420)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-12-2012, 1:56 PM Reply   
1998 K3500, has a new 454 but I sure wish I could afford a new deisel!
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Old    Pete (petrey10)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-12-2012, 2:16 PM Reply   
first off..... robbie you are such a poser... no way a dmax only get 5.5 mpg.... you know how I know? Because our family farm has one that we tow a lot heavier things than your x80.... gee wiz you guys

second you don't necessarily need a brand new diesel. If it were me I would buy the best 04 Dodge Cummins mega cab (not dually) I could afford. That engine and year will get you the best MPG for your buck.... make sure it has 3.42 or 3.73 gears.... don't put huge freaking tires and rims on it and you will easily get 19mpg on the highway and 14mpg pulling 4500ish pounds.

Lots of posers coming out on this thread...
Old    Travis (SydneyACE)      Join Date: Jun 2012       07-12-2012, 2:47 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by petrey10 View Post
travis if you seriously think these guys pulling with diesels are spending more on gas than your 1500 then you my friend are ignorant and lying

you know how I know? Because I tow with gas and diesels everyday and if its a choice between "feeling" the back back there or not I would still pick the diesel any day of the week


My 07 Tundra(4.7l) which has more power and better efficiency 1500 only gets 10mpg (@ 65mph)when I tow my boat (2001 tige 20i) and thats on a good day on flat ground.... our 04 Dodge with the cummins? Yeah it gets 15 mpg on the same roads doing the same speed AND it tows that load a lot safer than the other truck.


Which is one reason we are trying to sell the 07 Tundra. Am I rich because I drive a diesel? HECK NO!!!!!! My whole rig probably cost less than most boats on this forum.

So before you open your mouth and blabber about something lets run through the price difference between gas and diesel.... right now my local station diesel is 5 cents more. It has been as much as 40 cents more and 10 cents LESS. Its volatile just like gas. So really diesel is cheaper....

Seems like a no brainer to me bro
I'm not ignorant or lying, but thanks for the accusation.

Comparing your Tundra to my K1500 is kinda silly. The curb-weight on my 1500 is 4500lbs.
A newer Tundra is aroung 5500lbs. Your Tundra weighed about 1000lbs more than my truck does and most-likely had less torque too. (383 w/Vortech heads in my truck)

Truck with less torque and more weight is gonna be further out of it's efficiency range. I get 12-14 mpg when towing with my 1500.
My Duramax weighed 6500lbs (and had bigger tires). I used to get about 9-11 mpg towing with it.

Price difference?
Let's just use your example for the sake of argument.
Tundra 10mpg
Cummins 15mpg

Difference 5mpg

Let's say you tow 100 miles each time you boat... (Probably further than most)
Your Tundra would use 10 gallons x 4.00 = $40
Cummins 6.67 gallons x 4.00 (we'll just pretend that they cost the same) = $27
A difference of $13 per trip to the lake.

In your case, you most-likely didn't spend more for your Dodge than your Tundra. Right?
So it makes perfect sense for you to brag about all the $ you're saving by towing with the Dodge.
(Until you factor-in the first time you need to change an injector on that Dodge, but I'll just stay away from that subject. I used to be a mechanic at a dealership so I could talk anyone out of a diesel by showing them one repair bill.)

Let's assume for a minute that you're like so many others out-there who buy brand-new trucks because they think they need a new diesel to tow their boat.
You sell your Tundra for $20k and buy a new truck for $40k.
$20,000...
divide that by $13 (the amount you're saving on gas every tow to the lake)...
That's only 1500 trips to the lake before that new diesel starts paying for itself with all that $ you're saving in gas. (Or 150k miles if you want to think about it without the boat towing analogy.)

I love how people like to justify buy a new vehicle by claiming the're saving $ in gas. LOL!
Old    Travis (SydneyACE)      Join Date: Jun 2012       07-12-2012, 3:17 PM Reply   
Elliot is the only one I've heard from yet who can justify spending a ton of $ on a new truck.
The tax thing makes sense.

I'm not hatin on diesels just for the hell of it.
I used to have a really nice Duramax.
They're just like any toy.
Fun until you get tired of it (or you get tired of the payment).

Pretending that it saves you money to buy a new (or even newish) diesel for towing rather than keeping your current rig is just plain silly. I think some people have been brain-washed by corporate America's consumerism media marketing propaganda machine.

When you factor-in financing fees, insurance, and repair bills (on newer diesels), it's a no-brainer.
What's an oil-change on a diesel $60 if you're lucky?
How much $ to change a set of injectors on a Cummins? $200 each x 6 = $1200 (YES, they do go-out. I used to change injectors on 12-valves at the dealership quite frequently.)
Need a new fuel injector pump? $1000+
That's not even including labor. You know lots of dealerships and shops will charge you extra hourly-rate simply because it's a diesel?
EVERYTHING on a diesel is super-expensive!

I dunno, I feel like I might be wasting my time trying to explain to people why their "super sweet, black-smoke, uh uh uh foot-lbs of torque, 38" tire" diesel truck ISN'T saving them $.

If you bought it because you wanted a miniature semi-truck, thats fine.

Just admit-it!

It's a toy.
You feel like a bad-ass driving it. (It's cool, I understand.)
It's a way to show-off how much $ you make.

Just admit-it.

Don't pretend that you bought it because you NEEDED it to tow your 4000lb boat to the lake, or you are somehow magically saving $ by owning it.
Old    Brendan (kybool)      Join Date: Aug 2004       07-12-2012, 4:53 PM Reply   
I admit I get a chubby when I hit the gas and blow black smoke. We good?
Old    Harold Hemming (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       07-12-2012, 6:26 PM Reply   
I admit it I bought a big diesel truck because I can afford it plus I was tired of towing with my old 08 half ton.Is a diesel necessary NO but saying people drive them to feel cool is funny they are just a far superior tow rig.When I want to feel cool I grab the other ride
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Old    James Taylor (Vxmine)      Join Date: Jan 2012       07-12-2012, 7:24 PM Reply   
2008 LR3 hauling a 2006 Tige 24V. I get about 10 mpg with 4 people, gear/supplies, and full tanks. Great daily driver and fits in my garage! Good luck.
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Old    882001 (882001)      Join Date: Nov 2003       07-12-2012, 7:46 PM Reply   
my 7700# 7.3 liter pulls my 2300# nautique just fine. cant even feel it. haha i pull a 12,000# travel trailer too i can feel that, probably due to its total lack of aerodynamics
Old    Raf (Raf1985)      Join Date: Mar 2012       07-13-2012, 12:15 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by h20king View Post
I admit it I bought a big diesel truck because I can afford it plus I was tired of towing with my old 08 half ton.Is a diesel necessary NO but saying people drive them to feel cool is funny they are just a far superior tow rig.When I want to feel cool I grab the other ride
Is that an independence chopper with a revtech?
Old    Harold Hemming (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       07-13-2012, 4:10 AM Reply   
Good eye Raf it is a IMC with a 110 rev tec
Old    Brett Treiber (pc_sledge)      Join Date: Jan 2006       07-13-2012, 4:29 AM Reply   
I use a 2500 Sierra Denali HD with the DuraMax to tow my weighted X45. Love it.
Old    Brad Webb (04outback)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-13-2012, 4:47 AM Reply   
Just towed 2011 21v from NY to Miss. Avg 10.5 mpg
2011 silverado with 5.3 and tow pkg
Old    Sippi (sippi)      Join Date: Dec 2007       07-13-2012, 5:19 AM Reply   
Lovin it Brad!
Old    Brad Webb (04outback)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-13-2012, 6:14 AM Reply   
Sippi
what would you think about matching rims on the truck to the trailer?
Old    Pete (petrey10)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-13-2012, 6:24 AM Reply   
when did I say I bought a brand new diesel? I actually said you DON'T need to buy brand new. Injectors in a Cummins should last somewhere between 150k and 200k depending on how you treat the truck. So what do you do when you get 150k on your gasser? Probably time to pack it in or put some significant money into just like a diesel. Oil changes more expensive on diesel? Yeah they are SLIGHTLY because if you are using synthetic you can make it 7.5 to 10k before needing a change.

I am not saying a diesel isn't a toy and that I don't love to blow black smoke because I do. But you saying you are saving money by getting some POS 1970 gasser is only saving you money at the time of purchase. You are still going to pay more to tow your boat..... end of story.... a gasser can not get the mileage a diesel does in tow. Thats exactly why semi's are diesel.

We have figured out that diesel's are..... heavier so they control the load of the boat BETTER (than your 1500), gets better mileage while towing and possibly while not, costs slightly more to maintain, and can be had for just has cheap used as a gasser........... hmmmmm seems like a no brainer




keep chirping tho....
Old    Jeff Goldblum (VTWakeboard)      Join Date: Oct 2011       07-13-2012, 6:34 AM Reply   
2004 Nissan Titan does really great towing the boat but I will chime in on the gas diesel debate. I have owned both so i'll add some real numbers to this thread, all my mpg numbers are hand calculate at the gas pump and verified multiple times.All my towing has been highway so sorry I don't have the city numbers but they should be in a similar ratio.Numbers were taken towing my Mastercraft 205 on a tandem axel trailer which is about 4k lbs

2001 Dodge Ram CTD extended cab 6klbs
300hp/600ft lbs ish
mpg highway: 22.5
MPG towing:16

2004 Nissan titan crew cab 5.5klbs
305 hp/ 285 ft/lbs
Mpg Higway:16.5
mpg towing: 9

Cost to drive both per mile is almost identical unloaded/loaded (about .25c per mile with gas prices and diesel prices having about a .50 cent difference per gallong), insurance is about the same on both. Titan is way more comfortable day to day and has so much more room. The trucks costs are very similar and maintenance has been about equal. The Dodge though would never ever shift while towing, it got into 4th and stayed in 4th no matter what, set the cruise on any speed and forget about it, I really enjoyed that. Nisan will shift all over the place between 3ed and 4th gear on the highway with small to med size hills if im not paying attention.

End of factual information now to opinion. I would take the dodge ANYDAY over the titan towing. I could pass/stop/accelerate better than the titan and i was more confident in it safety wise with a load behind it. I would not hesitate to hook the boat to the dodge and drive cross country back then to Canada down to mexico if i wanted. The titan I am constantly thinking about the route hills and safety on the road though I may not really need to its in the back of my head. Also the dodge was flat out fun to drive and yes I enjoyed seeing a little smoke now and then.
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Old    Chris Bolding (chris_b)      Join Date: Feb 2007       07-13-2012, 7:40 AM Reply   
Another Diesel. I had trouble trying to decide between my crew Z71 or diesel. I found this 07 for a great price, thought I would at least try it a year. I love it. I have done a egr delete, new oil cooler, ARP studs, and put an SCT tuner with an Edge monitor. MPG's are 16-18 not towing, 13 towing. It has silly power with the race tune, and smooth towing with the tow tune.
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Old    Sippi (sippi)      Join Date: Dec 2007       07-13-2012, 7:49 AM Reply   
Yes Brad get matching rims.
Old    Raf (Raf1985)      Join Date: Mar 2012       07-13-2012, 8:05 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by h20king View Post
Good eye Raf it is a IMC with a 110 rev tec
Got the exact same one at the shop with 8k miles and the thing is completely falling apart. Just had to rebuild the top end too. Its true what they say about customs, you either get a really nice one or a really crappy one. I suppose it comes down to previous owner's maintenance as well though.
Old    Bryan James (bjames)      Join Date: May 2012       07-13-2012, 10:44 AM Reply   
2006 Ford F150 (Triton 5.4L). Been really good for towing, however I would like to upgrade to a newer 150 with a more powerfull engine.

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Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       07-13-2012, 11:04 AM Reply   
Put me on the "tows with a diesel" list. These threads are pitiful though, it'll never end. I use a diesel truck because it performs much better than any gas burner I've owned and for me, and the things I do, fuel economy is about the same. It just works for me.
Old    Jeff (cougarfan83)      Join Date: Sep 2011       07-13-2012, 11:18 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonyb View Post
Put me on the "tows with a diesel" list. These threads are pitiful though, it'll never end. I use a diesel truck because it performs much better than any gas burner I've owned and for me, and the things I do, fuel economy is about the same. It just works for me.
My intent with my post was just to get an idea of what others tow and with what vehicles. Somehow it has evolved into a diesel vs. gasser debate. Entertaining though.
Old    Bhyatt (bhyatt_ohp)      Join Date: Oct 2007       07-13-2012, 11:25 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by petrey10 View Post
Injectors in a Cummins should last somewhere between 150k and 200k depending on how you treat the truck. So what do you do when you get 150k on your gasser?
Let me start by saying I understand and respect everyone's choices/preferences on driving whatever they want to. I have over 170k on my 99 tahoe on the first page of this thread. I'm lucky to still be running on the stock engine, transmission, transfer case and differential gears, etc. I maintain my vehicle well and do all my own work - I'm also lucky to have some mechanical ability. At 160k I did brand new gaskets from intake up (intake gasket coolant leak), new water pump, alternator, distributor cap/rotor and plugs. I did the job myself in one weekend for about $350 in parts. With that work completed, I expect the motor to get the truck down the road another 100k at least - the 5.7l vortec motor is a workhorse IMO. In the past, I've sourced fully rebuilt transmissions for $750 and 5.7l engine long blocks for about $500.

So to answer the question, you can buy gasser parts for very cheap and you just repair them. Same idea as spending money on high mileage diesel truck repairs. Doing the work myself, I can have a new engine and transmission in a 1500 chassis for about $1,250. I've seen Cummins injectors cost $1000+ a set. Considering injector cost and other items of wear in every truck, such as transmissions, axles/differentials, etc - I don't see where a diesel has an advantage on maintenance costs. I also like working on the smaller 1500 chassis much more than the 2500 and 3500's. I've done some suspension work on an 06 Dodge 2500 Cummins and it kicked my arse.

Whatever you tow with, tow safely within gross weight specs for your setup and get you, your friends and family to the lake safely for a good time on the water.
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            07-13-2012, 11:35 AM Reply   
Im actually holding out for the new 2014 GM suvs that are replacing the tahoe, yukon & escalade. That will replace my current ride Im thinking

Old    D Hill (dhill)      Join Date: Aug 2010       07-13-2012, 12:45 PM Reply   
^^^ i could be seeing things, but that looks like an oval on the grill, not the chevy logo or "gmc"
Old    Pete (petrey10)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-13-2012, 12:55 PM Reply   
thank you Jeff G.... I appreciate someone else's actually experience... only thing I would add is that CURRENTLY in MY area diesel prices are only 5 to 10 cents higher so its a no brainer.... you area my be different
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            07-13-2012, 12:56 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhill View Post
^^^ i could be seeing things, but that looks like an oval on the grill, not the chevy logo or "gmc"
Yes...bc in the article it states that they replace the grill to disguise it from being noticed. Other pics show the bowtie and the headlights that are gm style
Old    D Hill (dhill)      Join Date: Aug 2010       07-13-2012, 1:14 PM Reply   
ahhh....i used to see disguised cars like this on the road in MI, makes sense.
Old    Kat Laird (wakekat15)      Join Date: Jul 2005       07-13-2012, 1:27 PM Reply   
My '09 SAN 210 and '12 Ford F-150 Raptor (6.2L 411 hp)....loving the way the new truck tows! Had to get something that can pull the G23 once I am in a position to get one!
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Old    Travis (SydneyACE)      Join Date: Jun 2012       07-13-2012, 2:24 PM Reply   
Unfortunately, I think some guys missed the whole point of my posts. I'm not trying to start a gasser vs diesel debate. My argument is; Keep the old gasser or buy a more expensive diesel? (Which is what the OP was asking about.)

After several years of working at a dealership, talking to guys (just like yourselves), who think they need to upgrade their trucks to the biggest, baddest diesel, I have learned a lot about this subject.

Being an employee of the company, I would never talk a guy out of buying a truck from us, but when I went back into the shop and started turning wrenches on a broken diesel, I would feel bad for them thinking about the HUGE disparity between gasser and diesel repair bills.
I'm not saying diesels break more than gassers (usually, it's the other way around). When they DO break however, it is usually 4x the cost of a gasser to fix them.

Pete: The real reason diesel oil-changes are more-expensive is because the average diesel uses 12 quarts of oil while most gassers use 5 quarts. Synthetic oil is irrelivant. (You can put synthetic in a gasser and go 7500+ between changes too.)

The whole point of my thread was not to try and say diesels suck for towing. It's obvious that they are better on most points. The point is, some guys think they NEED to sell their old gasser and buy a diesel because it's gonna save them $. That is simply not true. At-all...

My 1500 has 230k on the clock. Yes, I have rebuilt the trans. Yes, I have rebuilt the engine. Guess what. It's STILL cost me WAY less $ in the long-run that Duramax ever would have saved me. Payments and insurance on the Duramax could have bought me a new engine and trans for the 1500 every 6-months! The difference in gas-mileage is negligable. It really is. Unless you tow over 150k miles every year (like real truck-drivers do), you will not be able to justify the cost of upgrading to a diesel by claiming you're saving $ on gas.

I'll get off my soapbox now. I don't want to stir-up any bad blood. We're all boating enthusiasts here. We all like toys. I know I love my toys. I love my Duramax too, but it was one toy too many. (Motorcycle, Sports-car, Boat, Guns, etc.) As I said, it just irks me when somebody tries to justify that shiny new diesel by saying they NEED it to tow their 4000lb boat. Or claim that they are gonna save $ in the long-run on fuel or repair bills. You have a 10k lbs+ trailer? Yes! I get-it. The 1/2 ton gasser will not tow that. You just happen to own a diesel? Great! You got a real good deal on an old, used diesel? Why not?
Just don't sit there and tell me that $40k outright (or $20k upgrade from your old gasser) was REQUIRED. You did it because you wanted a new toy. It's not saving you $.

Peace, love and hugs! No hard feelings. It's cool to dissagree. If I ever met-up with any of you guys in-person, I would love to chill at the lake and have a beer. (Hit me-up for real if anyone near MT wants to ride behind a "sweet" old Supra!)
Old    Raf (Raf1985)      Join Date: Mar 2012       07-13-2012, 2:51 PM Reply   
I drive a lifted diesel and I'm hung like a horse. 8=================================D <-----actual size

But in reality I drive a diesel because I can afford it and I like it. Tows a million times better than any gasser I've ever had. And I like blowing black smoke, especially at hybrids with their windows down giving me dirty looks.
Old    882001 (882001)      Join Date: Nov 2003       07-13-2012, 2:55 PM Reply   
my 7.3 has 277,000 no rebuilt motor as i see it its about half life, as i plan on seeing 500K with it, i see alot of hotshot drivers getting that on the old 7.3s. all while getting 17 mpg. the best tank i ever got in my 150 was 13mpg in my f150 . and at 100,000 miles it needed a ton of work. so im calling bs
Old    Vic (vkkovach)      Join Date: May 2012       07-13-2012, 5:39 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by SydneyACE View Post
Unfortunately, I think some guys missed the whole point of my posts. I'm not trying to start a gasser vs diesel debate. My argument is; Keep the old gasser or buy a more expensive diesel? (Which is what the OP was asking about.)

After several years of working at a dealership, talking to guys (just like yourselves), who think they need to upgrade their trucks to the biggest, baddest diesel, I have learned a lot about this subject.

Being an employee of the company, I would never talk a guy out of buying a truck from us, but when I went back into the shop and started turning wrenches on a broken diesel, I would feel bad for them thinking about the HUGE disparity between gasser and diesel repair bills.
I'm not saying diesels break more than gassers (usually, it's the other way around). When they DO break however, it is usually 4x the cost of a gasser to fix them.

Pete: The real reason diesel oil-changes are more-expensive is because the average diesel uses 12 quarts of oil while most gassers use 5 quarts. Synthetic oil is irrelivant. (You can put synthetic in a gasser and go 7500+ between changes too.)

The whole point of my thread was not to try and say diesels suck for towing. It's obvious that they are better on most points. The point is, some guys think they NEED to sell their old gasser and buy a diesel because it's gonna save them $. That is simply not true. At-all...

My 1500 has 230k on the clock. Yes, I have rebuilt the trans. Yes, I have rebuilt the engine. Guess what. It's STILL cost me WAY less $ in the long-run that Duramax ever would have saved me. Payments and insurance on the Duramax could have bought me a new engine and trans for the 1500 every 6-months! The difference in gas-mileage is negligable. It really is. Unless you tow over 150k miles every year (like real truck-drivers do), you will not be able to justify the cost of upgrading to a diesel by claiming you're saving $ on gas.

I'll get off my soapbox now. I don't want to stir-up any bad blood. We're all boating enthusiasts here. We all like toys. I know I love my toys. I love my Duramax too, but it was one toy too many. (Motorcycle, Sports-car, Boat, Guns, etc.) As I said, it just irks me when somebody tries to justify that shiny new diesel by saying they NEED it to tow their 4000lb boat. Or claim that they are gonna save $ in the long-run on fuel or repair bills. You have a 10k lbs+ trailer? Yes! I get-it. The 1/2 ton gasser will not tow that. You just happen to own a diesel? Great! You got a real good deal on an old, used diesel? Why not?
Just don't sit there and tell me that $40k outright (or $20k upgrade from your old gasser) was REQUIRED. You did it because you wanted a new toy. It's not saving you $.

Peace, love and hugs! No hard feelings. It's cool to dissagree. If I ever met-up with any of you guys in-person, I would love to chill at the lake and have a beer. (Hit me-up for real if anyone near MT wants to ride behind a "sweet" old Supra!)
I wasn't going to post again to avoid getting any more off topic from the original post but I have to know! What kind of sports car do you have and how does that fit into your necessities only life style?
I personally would love to see a picture of it.
Old    Robby Elliott (Elliottsx80)      Join Date: Feb 2012       07-13-2012, 5:54 PM Reply   
1
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Old    B (fullspeed)      Join Date: Oct 2005       07-14-2012, 7:49 AM Reply   
Had the ford F250 with the 6.0. Towed great, always in the shop every other month. Sold it as soon as my warranty was up. Had the Gas chevy and 5.7 GMC Suburbans and 6.0 Yukons towed ok but low end brakes. Hated our Ford Expedition that thing towed like crap and did nothing well. Now we have a Jeep Commander with the Hemi as the family Suv, tows ok but is too small really for the VLX. Now I am looking for a GMC Sierra 2500/3500 Duramax or a Dodge 2500/3500 Cummins used. Saving some money now for a down payment.

Here is the picture of my Jeep.
http://s1022.photobucket.com/albums/...%20Stock9576a/
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Old    Jeff Glowniak (jspd234)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-14-2012, 8:55 AM Reply   
06 ford f350 crewcab longbed xlt 4x4 6.0 powerstroke diese that weighs over 8800 lbs with 4 people in itl. i like having a tow vehicle thats way heavier than my boat and trailer so it feels really stable no matter what the driving condtions are plus it has alot of torque to pull up ANY incline.
Old    Ally (alcarlaw1)      Join Date: Jun 2007       07-14-2012, 12:24 PM Reply   


Euro style!
Old    Ally (alcarlaw1)      Join Date: Jun 2007       07-14-2012, 12:27 PM Reply   
oh its a diesel, 3.0L V6, 270bhp, 560NM torque.
Old    Raf (Raf1985)      Join Date: Mar 2012       07-14-2012, 6:01 PM Reply   
^^you have a mini diesel. You are trying to semi-compensate for something.
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-14-2012, 8:01 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raf1985 View Post
^^you have a mini diesel. You are trying to semi-compensate for something.
No lift kit, no giant gaudy rims that make it look like a Tonka toy, and no claim that "he can't even feel the boat behind it." So no, no compensation here.

If you can't feel the boat behind your tow vehicle, you have crap for senses while driving; I don't care what your vehicle is. These tow threads always get ridiculous.
Old    Raf (Raf1985)      Join Date: Mar 2012       07-14-2012, 8:45 PM Reply   
But its really long and skinny looking. Thats why I said semi-compensating.
Old    Travis (SydneyACE)      Join Date: Jun 2012       07-15-2012, 10:45 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by vkkovach View Post
I wasn't going to post again to avoid getting any more off topic from the original post but I have to know! What kind of sports car do you have and how does that fit into your necessities only life style?
I personally would love to see a picture of it.
I think we're working on a serious thread de-railment here but what the hell...

Vic,

You should look through my posts and see if I said somewhere that I have a "necessities only lifestyle". The fact that I own a boat is proof-positive that I don't. Once again, people that own diesels don't bother me. I would be an extreme hypocrite seeing-as I've owned one myself. My gripe is with the people who won't admit that they bought-it because they wanted a toy... The people who try to justify spending a bunch of money on a more-expensive truck (when thier old one got the job done) by claiming that they are actually saving $ in the long-run. The attitude that bothers me is the one where people pretend they're being practical by spending money on something they don't need. (By definition, that is the opposite of practicality.)

As I have already stated, I have lots of toys. They aren't super nice or super expensive. I will be the first to admit that they are toys though.

Anyway, about my car...
It's a 2001 Corvette. Love taking it to the track (road-course) and running with the Porsche guys. Nothing more fun than getting the wave-by from an old rich guy in a car that costs 3-times as much as mine. On the flip-side, it is humbling to give the wave-by to my buddy James in his race-prepped Civic hatch-back. HAHAHA!

Old    DC (durty_curt)      Join Date: Apr 2008       07-15-2012, 11:14 AM Reply   
Mine is on the right.


Sadly i don't have any pics of my truck towing my own boat. . .
Old    Chris (centurion88)      Join Date: Mar 2012       07-15-2012, 11:25 AM Reply   
my tow rig 96 2dr tahoe. pulls our 01 centurion concourse. the pic with it hooked up is when i didnt have the helper bags hooked up(its a older pic)



Last edited by centurion88; 07-15-2012 at 11:27 AM. Reason: added pic
Old    Raf (Raf1985)      Join Date: Mar 2012       07-15-2012, 1:32 PM Reply   
Here's mine. Its full time 4x4. I just need to get the right hitch for the boat though. Excellent economy but does release some pretty bad fumes on occasion.

Old    jacob (jacob5)      Join Date: Nov 2009       07-16-2012, 7:17 AM Reply   
Great to see your thread, You share high quality boat pictures. Recently I boat '96 Powerstroke and share you soon in this thread.
Old    Axel (axeman)      Join Date: Aug 2009       07-16-2012, 8:38 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by axeman View Post
I've got an 09 ML550 that tows an 08 SAN 220 TE. No pics of both vehicles together though. Will try to get some pics this weekend.
Pic included this time...
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Old    Pete (petrey10)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-16-2012, 9:59 AM Reply   
you keep going back to someone saying they NEEDed a new diesel truck......... no one on here said that...... you can find a used diesel truck from 10k to 55k..... how much you spend is your problem..... if I trade my 19k gasser for a 19k diesel I WILL save money..... plain and simple... if I trade my 19k gasser for a 35k diesel then i won't
Old    Bill S (93rx7)      Join Date: Jan 2010       07-16-2012, 10:25 AM Reply   
i tow with a 1996 ford e-250 w/ a 4.9l straight 6

have previously owned a 2001 ford f150, and a 2002 ford f350 w/ a 7.3
towing with the 7.3 was a dream of course, but maintenance on that truck buried me. it got between 13 and 16 mpg regardless of what i had behind it.

f150 would get as low as 6 mpg when i would tow way too much. but i never had to work on it
Old    Ron Norris (LightningRon)      Join Date: Apr 2011       07-16-2012, 4:58 PM Reply   
08 Titan 4x4. Gas mileage is crap (7mpg) since I lifted it and put the 35s on it, but I tow maybe five minutes to the ramp.
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Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       07-16-2012, 6:00 PM Reply   
Here's mine but this ones getting old so I ordered a new one that'll be here next month . Its the exact same except 5.5' box.
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Old    LR3w8kbrdr            07-16-2012, 6:13 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by hatepain View Post
Here's mine but this ones getting old so I ordered a new one that'll be here next month . Its the exact same except 5.5' box.
Im not a Ford guy but thats one sweet lookin truck!
Old    Travis (SydneyACE)      Join Date: Jun 2012       07-17-2012, 11:11 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by petrey10 View Post
you keep going back to someone saying they NEEDed a new diesel truck......... no one on here said that...... you can find a used diesel truck from 10k to 55k..... how much you spend is your problem..... if I trade my 19k gasser for a 19k diesel I WILL save money..... plain and simple... if I trade my 19k gasser for a 35k diesel then i won't
Maybe nobody in this particular thread said that exactly, but I have read MANY similar threads where somebody said that. There are a couple posts where people implied it too.

"The old _______ (insert gasser 'beater' model here) wasn't cutting-it anymore, so it was time for me to upgrade to this;"

(Insert picture of huge, lifted, diesel with 24" chrome wheels, and stacks comming-out of the bed.)

"What do you all think? It gets 99mpg while towing the 10k lbs trailer up a 90% grade while doing 120mph! It has 900 ft/lbs of torque and I can't even feel the boat back-there! Man, I can't wait to start saving all these thousands of dollars at the pump!"

Obviously, there was exageration added to my quote for emphasis.

Anyway, I don't want to get on anybody's ****-list just because we have a disagreement about silly trucks. I have my opinion and you have yours. It's about as pointless as arguing about which brand of boat is "the best". When somebody asks for opinions, I'm gonna give them mine. When somebody calls me an "ignorant liar" that irks me a little bit so I will defend myself and give a detailed explanation of WHY I gave the info I did.

Sure! If the two trucks are the same price and you want a dedicated tow-rig, go for-it! I ALREADY said that in my post. You seem to be not reading my posts carefully, I explained clearly that I'm not against diesels for towing. I'm against people pretending that they're doing something practical when they're not. BTW, just because two trucks are the same cost, doesn't automatically mean the diesel one WILL be cheaper in the long-run. Fuel cost is just one part of the equation. You seem to be forgetting the maintenance aspect. Diesels don't always need more maintenance than gassers, but when they do need to be fixed, it is usually more-expensive than a gasser.

It might seem to you like I'm bashing diesels, but I'm not. My true intent was to raz braggarts who act like they are doing something practical by spending $. "Cool! I like your new toy! I wish I could justify something like that! You sure it's actually saving you money though?"
As I said, I owned a D-Max for a while. It was a great truck! Lots of fun! The fact is, it was anything but cheap, and I certainly didn't need it.
If I drove my truck often-enough to feel like I was justified in spending $ on upgrading, I would be all-over a 1/2 ton diesel. (If anyone would just effin make a good one already!)
When your good buddy has a collection service for vegetable-oil from a few local resturants, the thought of free gas sounds pretty nice. (Where was he when I owned my D-Max?)
Old    Ally (alcarlaw1)      Join Date: Jun 2007       07-17-2012, 2:14 PM Reply   
Over here in Europe, diesels out sell petrol (gas) SUV's probably 10 to 1 (or more). Diesels are so refined now, better mpg, sooooooooooo much more torque, there really is no reason to go for a petrol. Basically if you drive a small car you buy petrol, anything mid size and up (SUV's included), pretty much everybody goes diesel.
My Audi A6, 3.0TDI, (I guess small car by US standards!!) averages 42+mpg, 60mph in a shade over 6 seconds and tows my boat pretty well. Yes, you can feel it, and yes the fuel consumption is shocking when you are towing, but what would you expect. I've aways quite fancied a Q7 (same engine as my A6) but the fuel consumption is a killer by our standards. A gallon - 4.54 litres costs over 6, guessing around $9-10 so we need to be pretty fuel conscious!

Last edited by alcarlaw1; 07-17-2012 at 2:16 PM.
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            07-17-2012, 2:30 PM Reply   
Wait...you tow a boat with your A6??
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       07-17-2012, 3:32 PM Reply   
Quote:
Im not a Ford guy but thats one sweet lookin truck!
Thanks. Its a totally stock package from Ford. I've owned a lot of nice cars and trucks but this is my favorite of all.
Old    Raf (Raf1985)      Join Date: Mar 2012       07-17-2012, 5:25 PM Reply   
I don't think anyone mentioned anything about diesels holding their value much more than gassers. Yes you spend more money for one but you also get a lot more back when you sell/trade in. So in reality, its not "wasted" money.

I traded my 2007 chevy 1500 for a 99.5 f350 about 3 years ago. Back then, the book values were the same. That's not even including all the badass upgrades the f350 has. The chevy was bone stock. Now 3 years later, my diesel is worth more than the chevy and will sure as hell sell a lot quicker if I ever need the money.
Old    Ally (alcarlaw1)      Join Date: Jun 2007       07-18-2012, 2:45 AM Reply   
LR3w8kbrdr, of course, why not? The car is rated to tow a load weighing as much as my boat, it has 4WD, engine being a diesel more than capable with loads of torque etc. There is a different towing philosophy this side of the pond, not saying it is any better or safer, just different.
Old    Bevan (stxr_racer)      Join Date: Jun 2006       07-18-2012, 4:24 AM Reply   
A little slow outa the hole...but great on gas
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Old    LR3w8kbrdr            07-18-2012, 5:30 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by alcarlaw1 View Post
LR3w8kbrdr, of course, why not? The car is rated to tow a load weighing as much as my boat, it has 4WD, engine being a diesel more than capable with loads of torque etc. There is a different towing philosophy this side of the pond, not saying it is any better or safer, just different.
Guess it depends on the boat, ramps at the water...but I dont see people towing boats with their sport sedans around here. Half the time the suv is backed into the water, can only imagine that on an audi. Cant say Ive even seen a diesel Audi either and I live 1/2mile from the biggest audi dealer in the area. Def different over here
Old    Ally (alcarlaw1)      Join Date: Jun 2007       07-18-2012, 6:10 AM Reply   
ah, we keep it a secret. Both BMW and Audi have some pretty impressive diesel powered cars. The new A6 has a bi-turbo 3.0 V6, 309bhp, 479lb ft of torque and a shade over 5 seconds to 60, Oh yeah and 40+ mpg! You can generally remap a further 15-20% more ponies for not much money. I always wonder why these cars are not sold in the US, seems crazy to me...
Old    Greg (silvermustang35)      Join Date: Jul 2008       07-18-2012, 6:43 AM Reply   
I just switched from my 05 Silverado (2wd) Ext. Cab 1500 to an 02 F-350 Crew Cab Dually. The dually is Lariat package and inside doesn't even look like its been sat in. 194k miles and engine is in good shape. I have had nothing but issues since I bought the truck new in 05, saw a smoking deal come up on this dually so I jumped. The 4wd will help as ive had some issues at 2 or 3 ramps. I had the extended cab, but the crew cab is amazing. Actually average 15mpg with the dually. Was getting about 18 on the 1500. Towing I got around 8.9 on the 1500 compared to 13 with the dually. Programmer comes in tomorrow too.
On the silverado, I put cross drilled vented rotors, performance pads, and still had issues stopping. The truck stopped better with the boat. I think I had a master cylinder losing pressure. I had already replaced inner tie rods, doors were rusting and backlights on steering buttons were burnt. I traded the truck in last week with 54,000 miles on it... thats why I was disappointed, that low of miles on it and that many issues.
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Old    Andy (michridr69)      Join Date: Dec 2008       07-18-2012, 7:52 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by SydneyACE View Post
Ok kids, so who won the "I have the biggest, baddest, can tow @ 100mph, rig competition"?

"Uh, uh, uh! I can't even feel the boat back there!"

"Uh, uh, uh! I spent $40k on a truck that can pull the boat up a pass @ 75mph, no problem!"
I guess $40k is a fair price to pay for arriving at the lake 5 min earlier....

Seriously kids, it's OK to feel the boat behind you.
It's ok to go below the speed limit when towing up a hill.

Jeff; Your Sequoia WILL tow your boat back and forth to the lake. It might not do 100mph down the hwy doing-it, but I gurantee it will get your boat back and forth to the lake.
You will probably feel the boat back there too, but that's OK. Not sure why all these guys are on here bragging about how they "can't even feel" their boat behind them...

FYI, I have a '92 Chevy 1500. Works just fine...

"seriously kids" lol so what ur really trying to say is that if you could afford a brand new truck, you would rather drive your 92 chevy???? Im confused at ur stupidity... im sry some of us like showing others our trucks. If you dont want to look stop looking at this thread dumba$$
Old    BONDO (bondo)      Join Date: Oct 2007       07-18-2012, 6:46 PM Reply   
What happens if u just like kicking ass? Is that ok? I can tow, sled pull, drag race and take the family to a picnic. Its nice to have a truck that can be the Swiss army knife. A diesel will last forever, so I paid her off and built her up and and doesn't bother me if u don't like it.
Old    Raf (Raf1985)      Join Date: Mar 2012       07-18-2012, 7:30 PM Reply   
^^that truck is pure gnarly
Old    Jeff Goldblum (VTWakeboard)      Join Date: Oct 2011       07-18-2012, 8:18 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bondo View Post
What happens if u just like kicking ass? Is that ok?
Quote of the day. Some sick trucks here guys. Bondo whats done to that beast? some day I hope to get a 5.9 again
Old    James (james)      Join Date: Feb 2010       07-29-2012, 6:34 PM Reply   
a better pic of my tow rig but its not with the boat
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Old    Jeff Rowland (HygOctaneGraphics)      Join Date: Oct 2011       08-02-2012, 11:19 AM Reply   
Heres my tow rig. 1999 Tahoe with 270K miles on her. I replaced the motor a few years back with a 300+ horse chevy crate and she has ran great. The HOE only tows my little ol 1990 supra but for a few years she was towing 24' enclosed trailer full of quads and dirt bikes. That was hard on her for sure.



Boat and HOE
Old    Kevin Skonnord (kskonn)      Join Date: Mar 2011       08-02-2012, 12:16 PM Reply   
alright I will play-
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Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       08-02-2012, 1:15 PM Reply   

Old     (saberworks)      Join Date: Sep 2010       08-02-2012, 1:32 PM Reply   
Here's mine. I started with a 2000 Expedition with the 5.4 and it sucked. It was fine on flat ground but going over Snoqualmie Pass here in WA I had to wrap it at like 5000 RPM to even maintain 60MPH (and even that was tough on the steeper parts). I then "upgraded" to a 2005 F-150 with the newer 5.4 (supposedly had more torque and 40 more hp) and better gear ratio, but experienced essentially the same thing. And when either one was up at that high RPM they would shake too much to be comfortable. The F-150 was a bit better but not much better. Both got about 6-8MPG going over the passes, towing, and about 10 during regular, flat towing, and about 12 normal driving.

I looked into diesels but didn't want to pay the $. I also wanted a truck with more options (back up camera, electric seats, decent stereo). I didn't want to do another Ford because of all the problems I had with those two (including "cam phasers" on the F-150 for $1400, spark plug replacement which the dealer wants at least $400 if the 2-piece plugs don't break on the way out, and some undisclosed amount if they do [my mechanic friend did it for me, and 1 broke, at only 40k miles, when they're supposed to last 100k!], and the constant stress over whether an injector will stick open and ruin my entire engine). I didn't look into chevy at the time because I hadn't heard about the 6.2, so I was basically looking at Dodge and Toyota. I wanted the front bench seat because we usually have a total of 6 when we go over the mountains on vacation. The Toyota bench seat was a lot less comfortable (the buckets were nice though) and the one I test drove was really surging weirdly when entering the freeway. I liked the Dodge, and the MDS was cool (although it doesn't work very well in practice). The seats were nice, it drove really nice, and had all the options I wanted. So back in Feb. I bought a 2012 Ram 1500. I didn't want to post it here too much until I took it over the pass because if I didn't like it I'd be angry that I wasted a bunch of money.

It tows awesome. I had the boat behind me, the entire back of the truck full of gear, and a total of 6 people in the cab. I was easily able to maintain 70+mph over the passes (on cruise control, actually), and still had power to pass people at higher speeds if/when I wanted to. When it got steep it would definitely downshift and wrap up to about 4k rpm or something but it wasn't obnoxious and would only happen for a little while at a time. I averaged 11 mpg for the pass and I get about 13 towing on the flats (and about 15 normal driving w/out towing; they claim you can get 19 somehow but I have never seen that on average, only every so often when the mds will kick on, but it quickly turns back off).

Overall I'm pretty happy with the truck.
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Old    greg (lav)      Join Date: Jun 2007       08-05-2012, 5:12 AM Reply   
Waiting for the day when one of these will show up on here
Overkill for my needs but badazz all the same

http://sportchassis.com/component/op...Overview-P4XL/
Old    Raf (Raf1985)      Join Date: Mar 2012       08-05-2012, 10:53 AM Reply   
Or this one

http://www.conquestvehicles.com/knight-xv.html
Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       08-05-2012, 5:42 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raf1985 View Post
Is that what they used in the movie "Fast Five"?

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