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Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       07-03-2012, 2:53 PM Reply   
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/20...-leaked-video/
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       07-06-2012, 10:02 AM Reply   
Too bad the European socialists had to pick up the ball dropped by America when Congress killed America's High Energy Physics research in favor of funding GWB's war in Iraq.
Old    Akadirtbikingdad (wakeboardingdad)      Join Date: Aug 2008       07-06-2012, 11:32 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
GWB's war in Iraq.
That's funny.
Old    Tucker McElroy (Tucker_McElroy)      Join Date: Mar 2012       07-06-2012, 12:29 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
Too bad the European socialists had to pick up the ball dropped by America when Congress killed America's High Energy Physics research in favor of funding GWB's war in Iraq.
So... you are saying that Congress approved the war, not GWB?
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       07-06-2012, 12:50 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tucker_McElroy View Post
So... you are saying that Congress approved the war, not GWB?
This isn't the right question. The correct question is... would there have been a war without GWB. Let's see if we can put this in the simplest of terms....

1) Did GWB seek an invasion of Iraq by having the CIA prepare documents to justify the invasion and present an argument in favor of the invasion to the UN. Y or N?

2) If you answered Yes to the above. Do you think that Congress would have called for war with Iraq in the absence of GWB doing those things you answered yes to?

If you answered N to question 1 or Y to question 2, then you are justified in your belief that it wasn't GWB's war. I also think you are deluded, but at least your belief is consistent.

Last edited by fly135; 07-06-2012 at 12:52 PM.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       07-06-2012, 12:58 PM Reply   
You know when people ask if we should be spending 100's of millions annually on high energy physics vs doing better things in society with that money, it really makes you take pause and give some deep thought to that question. Then along comes something like the Iraq war which spent many 100's of times the amount spent on high energy physics and the ludicrousness of it all overwhelms any rational contemplation of such hard decisions.
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       07-06-2012, 1:20 PM Reply   
You only have to watch one episode of "Bomb Patrol Afganistan" to ask yourself WTF are we doing there. We are perfectly capable of blowing up AQ hot spots from the water.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       07-06-2012, 1:23 PM Reply   
I'm with you on that Paul.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       07-06-2012, 1:29 PM Reply   
What's that heathcare law called by the Republicans? Is it "CongressCare"?
Old    Terry Redfearn (TerryR)      Join Date: Aug 2010       07-06-2012, 3:49 PM Reply   
good point. it should be Democare.
Old    Tucker McElroy (Tucker_McElroy)      Join Date: Mar 2012       07-06-2012, 4:59 PM Reply   
I aw simply making the point that the war was approved by congress as stated in the Constitutuion, versus what was done in Libya and what is the policy of the Obama administration...

Quote:
SESSIONS: “Do you think you can act without Congress and initiate a no-fly zone in Syria without congressional approval?”

PANETTA: “Our goal would be to seek international permission… Whether or not we would want to get permission from the Congress—I think those are issues we would have to discuss as we decide what to do here.”

SESSIONS: “Well I am almost breathless about that because what I heard you say is, ‘we’re going to seek international approval and we’ll come and tell the Congress what we might do,*and we*might*seek congressional approval’… Wouldn’t you agree that would be pretty breathtaking to the average American?”
But who gives a crap, it's all a matter of just waiting now, we are all pretty much screwed. Remember I'm a Ron Paul conservative...

Can we get back to the God Particle thing now?
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       07-06-2012, 5:18 PM Reply   
^I'll take what was done in Libya over Iraq anyday.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       07-06-2012, 5:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerryR View Post
good point. it should be Democare.
I'm happy with Obamacare and Bush's War. It's accurate description of the champion of each.
Old    Tucker McElroy (Tucker_McElroy)      Join Date: Mar 2012       07-06-2012, 5:30 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
^I'll take what was done in Libya over Iraq anyday.
See, this why I think you are so short sighted... And a mindless Obama Fan Boy...

It's not what was done, it's not who did it, it's how it was done and what it means for the future.

BTW, let's not hijack this thread... This is the God Particle thread...
Old    Someone Else (deltahoosier)      Join Date: Jun 2002       07-06-2012, 8:10 PM Reply   
John is inaccurate yet again.

We have not abandoned any "high energy" physics in the US. That I bet my life on. You obviously know nothing about the subject.


If you want to keep reading the rest is about "the war".

Congress with a majority of democrats approved the war in Iraq. Here are some reasons John:

Pre-War Quotes from Democrats


"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998. *

"Together we must also confront the new hazards of chemical and biological weapons, and the outlaw states, terrorists and organized criminals seeking to acquire them. Saddam Hussein has spent the better part of this decade, and much of his nation's wealth, not on providing for the Iraqi people, but on developing nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them."
President Clinton, Jan. 27, 1998. * video

"Fateful decisions will be made in the days and weeks ahead. At issue is nothing less than the fundamental question of whether or not we can keep the most lethal weapons known to mankind out of the hands of an unreconstructed tyrant and aggressor who is in the same league as the most brutal dictators of this century."
Sen. Joe Biden (D, DE), Feb. 12, 1998 *

"It is essential that a dictator like Saddam not be allowed to evade international strictures and wield frightening weapons of mass destruction. As long as UNSCOM is prevented from carrying out its mission, the effort to monitor Iraqi compliance with Resolution 687 becomes a dangerous shell game. Neither the United States nor the global community can afford to allow Saddam Hussein to continue on this path."
Sen. Tom Daschle (D, SD), Feb. 12, 1998 *

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
Madeleine Albright, Feb. 18, 1998. *

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb. 18, 1998. *

"We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998. *

"As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998. *

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
Madeleine Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999. *

"This December will mark three years since United Nations inspectors last visited Iraq. There is no doubt that since that time, Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to refine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL) and others, Dec, 5, 2001. *

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002. *

"We know that he has stored away secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002. *

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002. *

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002. *

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002. *

"My position is very clear: The time has come for decisive action to eliminate the threat posed by Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction. I'm a co-sponsor of the bipartisan resolution that's presently under consideration in the Senate. Saddam Hussein's regime is a grave threat to America and our allies..."
John Edwards (D, NC), Oct. 7, 2002 * video

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force — if necessary — to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002. *

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years .... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002. *

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do."
Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002. *

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members.... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct. 10, 2002. * video

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction.
Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002. *

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime .... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction .... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ...."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003. *

http://www.reasons-for-war-with-iraq...y_of_Terrorism

You can read all about this and much more. Another thing you forget is the democrats have had the power of the purse since 2006. Who owns what war???? Now why hasn't obama end the wars? That's right they voted for it and funded. get a clue.
Old    Flight007 (poser007)      Join Date: Nov 2004       07-06-2012, 8:19 PM Reply   
If i'm not mistaken.....I'm pretty sure Hoosier just handed John his walking papers.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       07-06-2012, 8:54 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
John is inaccurate yet again.

We have not abandoned any "high energy" physics in the US. That I bet my life on. You obviously know nothing about the subject..
That is true it wasn't abandoned. Just severely cut back. You didn't answer my question. I've seen your cut and paste many times.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       07-07-2012, 6:20 AM Reply   
"Now why hasn't obama end the wars?"

I thought for all intensive purposes, the Iraq war was over. And didn't Obama just announce the date for the withdrawal of US troops in Afghanistan, much to the dismay of the GOP? But this is my biggest issue with Obama, I think he should have begun the withdrawal of US troops in both wars within the first week of his presidency.

And so now you guys (Delta and Flight) are trusting the words of Gore, Clinton, and Kerry? They are your gospel when they support your argument, but if their words go against your ideology, then the words are rubbish.

Now, back to the topic at hand.

"That is true it wasn't abandoned. Just severely cut back."

(From sciencemag.org):

"I'm dismayed, but not surprised," says Raymond Fonck, a fusion physicist at the University of Wisconsin, Madison. C-Mod had not yet been mined out scientifically, Fonck says, but there were arguments for keeping up the United States' two other tokamaks—at the Princeton Plasma Physics Laboratory in New Jersey and General Atomics in San Diego, California. Fusion physicists have long worried that the U.S. contributions to ITER would starve the domestic fusion program, and that appears to be happening. In the new budget, fusion research would receive 45% of the money, ITER would receive 45% of the money, and operations of the U.S. facilities would receive just 10% of the resources, a far cry from the roughly 50% considered optimal. "To have a 10% operating budget is kind of insane," Fonck says. "I understand where it's coming from, but we're already under utilizing our facilities."

"DOE's nuclear physics program would see its budget fall 3.6% to $527 million. But even the $20 million cut would have big consequences. For example, the budget would provide enough money to run an atom smasher known as the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider (RHIC) at Brookhaven National Laboratory in Upton, New York, for roughly 10 weeks—half of the time it will run this year. However, RHIC is already running at 2/3 capacity, and if such foreshortened runs continue, it could be the beginning of a "death spiral," says Steven Vigdor, associate director for nuclear and particle physics at Brookhaven."
Old    Someone Else (deltahoosier)      Join Date: Jun 2002       07-07-2012, 9:17 PM Reply   
John there was no question. Point is, they were ALL in on it. It is just not Bush. At least one person had the guts to own it.

Jeremy,

Don't even try. We have the worlds largest most powerful laser in the history of man at Livermore Lab. Just did a shot that was over 500 Tera watts and 1.8 Meja joules of energy. It is for doing everything from fusion, planetary science, weapons complex work. We have the linear accelerator at Stanford. I don't think you understand how many projects that intertwine that also collaborate in this field from around the world. Government budgets move up and down all the time. Always have, always will.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       07-08-2012, 6:17 AM Reply   
^Are you implying I created these figures? I simply posted some figures and opinions from some experts in the field. Argue with them.
Old    Tory Parke (TParke)      Join Date: Aug 2011       07-08-2012, 6:47 AM Reply   
I am pretty sure the way Harley Clifford is riding he found the God particle a couple of years ago.
Old    Someone Else (deltahoosier)      Join Date: Jun 2002       07-10-2012, 12:06 PM Reply   
Jeremy, I am implying that I am very interested in this subject for obvious reasons. The government moves money around based on world leadership in different fields. We actually were going to have the worlds largest super collider in the 90's. Clinton or Bush1 cut the budget for it. It was supposed to be 100 miles long. I think they were still buying the land even after the project got cut. Turns out the investment may not have been worth it considering CERN was being built. We can make proclamations that so and so hated research because of this or that. You don't know what kind of research deals get cut. Some countries will dump money into our large projects if we support theirs. It keeps money from being wasted. You can write a ton of articles regarding budgets cut or gone up in regards government and research all the time.

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