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Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       06-14-2012, 1:41 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamabonners View Post
Here is a good video of their factory and boat building process, I have heard that they do use the Gortex thread plus many other high quality components. I also like that their graphics are geled in. Bassboats have been doing this for years and it really does add to the longevity of the exterior.

Cheaper price doesn't always mean they use cheaper products. Many times, the higher price comes from more overhead like advertising, sales people, name recognition.... I am in IT consulting business - many times the big name product is more expensive because of the above reasons, not because they use better materials. No doubt that the Nautique is a well built boat, but to say something is made from higher quality materials just because it is more expensive is ignorant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNlfqpYywRI
Walk the boats and you will see where the extra price comes from. I've walked many boats recently because we are int he market. I've walked MBs right beside malibus, since they are at the same dealer, the malibus were more expensive and much nicer inside and out. I walked the TIges, they are nicer than the MBs and on par with the malibus. I've walked MCs and they are nicer than all three I've mentioned. The funny thing is as you talk about price point you start to see where the money goes as the price goes up.

Wake to wake you aren't going to see much difference, other than shape, until you get into some of really expensive boats. You're going to get less bling with less money, it's simple economics. THis isn't the crappy littleague teams where no one can lose, if you pay less you're going to get less on most products. MBs are still expensive and still nice and people don't want other to minimize a purchase like that, but it's reality.

The CCs are going to give you more and better otpions, because you are paying for more and better options. Much like Chat has said about axis, people want more out of the axis options wise and then bitch they cost too much. Once you start to bling out a boat it's going to quit being a price point boat. MBs and axis are price point boats, you aren't going to get everything you get with the other boats at that price point. Not everyone wants the bling, and not everyone can afford bling, so that's why the price point boats are there. If you can buy a blinged out boat for a price point price you snatch it up because it makes fiscal sense, and you'll have equity in it off the lot.
Old    Ian Brown (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       06-14-2012, 1:51 PM Reply   
Agree to disagree on the above statement. I think the MB interior is top notch and very comfortable with tons of storage.
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       06-14-2012, 1:52 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakereviews View Post
Agree to disagree on the above statement. I think the MB interior is top notch and very comfortable with tons of storage.
I'm sure side by side with an X25 you couldn't tell the difference in quality at all..... give me a break
Old    Jon Hunter (hunter660)      Join Date: Aug 2007       06-14-2012, 1:55 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjh1669 View Post
I'm sure side by side wiht an X25 you could tell the difference in quality at all..... give me a break
I do not like the inexpensive vacuum formed parts the MB has to the right of the driver and in the cup holder area. I would also prefer a 3 piece sunpad that opens like most of the MC line. Other than that, point out one area where the X25 is of higher "quality"
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       06-14-2012, 2:00 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter660 View Post
I do not like the inexpensive vacuum formed parts the MB has to the right of the driver and in the cup holder area. I would also prefer a 3 piece sunpad that opens like most of the MC line. Other than that, point out one area where the X25 is of higher "quality"
Let's see, hinges, racks, tower, depth of cockpit, vinyl, looks, storage, electronics, stereo, trailer, options. It also costs almost 30k more fully loaded than a fully loaded MB
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-14-2012, 2:06 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter660 View Post
I do not like the inexpensive vacuum formed parts the MB has to the right of the driver and in the cup holder area. I would also prefer a 3 piece sunpad that opens like most of the MC line. Other than that, point out one area where the X25 is of higher "quality"
Don't you know, a bunch of crossstitching, using different materials, etc all mean it is high quality. Haha.

I think that is their line of thinking. Jsut because it looks fancier doesn't mean it is any better quality or will last longer or is more comfortable. There is a difference between luxery and quality in hy opinion.

There are definately things I think would cost more to produce a nautique or Mastercraft then an MB and you can see those things but I am not sure it makes them any better quality. The dash area's seem to be more custom/molded etc.. hinged seats, shocks on the vdrive compartments, lcd screens, etc... All those things will add to the cost but again, in my opinion don't make it any higher a quality of boat.
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       06-14-2012, 2:09 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by polarbill View Post
Don't you know, a bunch of crossstitching, using different materials, etc all mean it is high quality. Haha.

I think that is their line of thinking. Jsut because it looks fancier doesn't mean it is any better quality or will last longer or is more comfortable. There is a difference between luxery and quality in hy opinion.

There are definately things I think would cost more to produce a nautique or Mastercraft then an MB and you can see those things but I am not sure it makes them any better quality. The dash area's seem to be more custom/molded etc.. hinged seats, shocks on the vdrive compartments, lcd screens, etc... All those things will add to the cost but again, in my opinion don't make it any higher a quality of boat.
I guess maybe we should define it then, the higher end boats have more luxury that give the feel of higher quality.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-14-2012, 2:17 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjh1669 View Post
I guess maybe we should define it then, the higher end boats have more luxury that give the feel of higher quality.
I think I would agree with that statement. I would kind of consider that fit and finish as well although a more simple boat could have equal or better fit and finish then a more luxurious boat if it was assembled better and used just has high a quality components. It may just lack some of the luxuries(bling).
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       06-14-2012, 2:20 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by polarbill View Post
I think I would agree with that statement. I would kind of consider that fit and finish as well although a more simple boat could have equal or better fit and finish then a more luxurious boat if it was assembled better and used just has high a quality components. It may just lack some of the luxuries(bling).
Luxury can cause problems, but it also holds resale better and tends to be more aesthetically pleasing. That's where the Highend boats have it over the price points.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       06-14-2012, 2:20 PM Reply   
As wake tractors, MBs do a fine job.

As status symbols (greating the impression of luxury, and the feel of luxury) less so.

I think the axis-MB comparison is a fairer one than MB-Nautique. Neither MB nor Axis are trying to deliver the experience of a big three flagship (in the boat at least).

Hinged cushions, lcd screens, touch screens, electronic switches... those things all cost money. A fairer comparison to a 23' mb would be something like a 23vride from malibu.
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       06-14-2012, 2:22 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
As wake tractors, MBs do a fine job.

As status symbols (greating the impression of luxury, and the feel of luxury) less so.

I think the axis-MB comparison is a fairer one than MB-Nautique. Neither MB nor Axis are trying to deliver the experience of a big three flagship (in the boat at least).

Hinged cushions, lcd screens, touch screens, electronic switches... those things all cost money. A fairer comparison to a 23' mb would be something like a 23vride from malibu.
best statement of the thread
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-14-2012, 2:33 PM Reply   
I am not sure I would agree with you chris on luxury holding value better. I would actually tend to believe the exact opposite. Look at cars, every luxury brand out there has insanely horrible resale. That includes Mercedes, BMW, Cadillac, Lincoln, etc.. About the only one to buck the trend would be lexus. Their resale being high though is based off of real(maybe percieved) reliability. What cars have the best resale in the USA? At least in Seattle I would believe Lexus, Honda, Toyota(especially pickups), subaru(maybe). How much is a 100k benz worth 5 years later. Probably ~25k. How much is a 25k honda worth 5 years later. Probably ~17-20k. The mercedes might still be worth more but certainly doesn't have better resale. I am not sure boats can be exactly compared to cars though. I think if you buy a 5 year old nautique or mastercraft and compare resale to buying a 5 year old MB then you may be right. The problem with the big dollar boats is that if you 75k for them and then try to sell 3 year later someone has the options of paying 50 or 60k for that Nautique or can buy a brand new MB or comparable boat. Actually for the initial 5 years I would bet almost all brands of boats have nearly identical resale value when expressed in a percentage.
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       06-14-2012, 2:38 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by polarbill View Post
I am not sure I would agree with you chris on luxury holding value better. I would actually tend to believe the exact opposite. Look at cars, every luxury brand out there has insanely horrible resale. That includes Mercedes, BMW, Cadillac, Lincoln, etc.. About the only one to buck the trend would be lexus. Their resale being high though is based off of real(maybe percieved) reliability. What cars have the best resale in the USA? At least in Seattle I would believe Lexus, Honda, Toyota(especially pickups), subaru(maybe). How much is a 100k benz worth 5 years later. Probably ~25k. How much is a 25k honda worth 5 years later. Probably ~17-20k. The mercedes might still be worth more but certainly doesn't have better resale. I am not sure boats can be exactly compared to cars though. I think if you buy a 5 year old nautique or mastercraft and compare resale to buying a 5 year old MB then you may be right. The problem with the big dollar boats is that if you 75k for them and then try to sell 3 year later someone has the options of paying 50 or 60k for that Nautique or can buy a brand new MB or comparable boat. Actually for the initial 5 years I would bet almost all brands of boats have nearly identical resale value when expressed in a percentage.
Something esle that calculates into resale is brand recognition. The big three carry more and tend to be where people look. If you can't afford a 2012 big three boat you can get a similar one in a 2010 model that will save you 20k and still have the luxury.

It's hard to compare boats to cars, the price of new boats being so inflated causes the used boat market to hold it's value better. I can sell my boat now, three years later, for 5k more than I bought it for, early 2000 xstars are selling for close to what they cost brand new back in the day.
Old    - (Txjole)      Join Date: Dec 2011       06-14-2012, 4:22 PM Reply   
Helm seat base, breaker boxes over fuses, no toggles, stereo remote, stainless hinges, Linc system, recessed battery boxes, battery breaker box, drain hoses on cup holders, recessed helm floor pan, ss floor drains its alot of little things that add up. They cost more and help hold value. 87 years they are doing something right.
Old    Preston (Bamabonners)      Join Date: Jul 2011       06-14-2012, 7:37 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Txjole View Post
Helm seat base, breaker boxes over fuses, no toggles, stereo remote, stainless hinges, Linc system, recessed battery boxes, battery breaker box, drain hoses on cup holders, recessed helm floor pan, ss floor drains its alot of little things that add up. They cost more and help hold value. 87 years they are doing something right.
I am not a MB fanboy or anything, I am just trying to be neutral and better undstand the perceptions of the subjects of "quality", "better build", and "better fit and finish".

In my mind, a boat is a luxury item. A luxury item with a ton of markup. The prices keep going up - sometimes because of cost of materials, but also because of the dwindling amount of good competition. Personally, I am glad MB is around to show that a quality boat can be built and prices can be kept low while maintaining good customer service.

I dont know if MB uses breaker boxes or fuses, but MB uses all stainless hardware that is anodized for salt water use. They use 52 oz vinyl and no chopper guns. Their graphics are made into the gel coat.

I have watched the factory tour videos for Malibu, MC, nautique, MB, Tige, and SC - all of them are so similar in build technique and materials that it makes no sense why the large differences in price. I don't know enough about boat building to know if chopper guns are bad, but Malibu, MC, MB, Nautique, and SC all use them (go check out their factory tour videos on youtube). All use triple density foam, all use composites and no wood, stainless hardware, and plush carpeting.

I have no doubt that Nautique is well built (as are the other big names), but you can't tell me that the higher costs of their boats is not due in part by the larger facilities, the private lakes, the paid pros, the free demo boats, the advertising, the larger teams of staff, etc... The same can probably be said for MC, Malibu, and SC as well.

On the subject of high prices of boats...Why is it that my wife's new Lincoln costs 20k less than my boat? The Lincoln is more comfortable, has more features, more materials, more technology, etc...
Old     (superfluous)      Join Date: May 2012       06-14-2012, 9:19 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamabonners View Post
On the subject of high prices of boats...Why is it that my wife's new Lincoln costs 20k less than my boat? The Lincoln is more comfortable, has more features, more materials, more technology, etc...
What kind of wake does your wife's alleged Lincoln put out?
Old    GD (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       06-14-2012, 9:58 PM Reply   
Nice post Preston! Its nice to see a little content. Shawn you have it right too. MB == WAKE TRACTOR.
Old    Preston (Bamabonners)      Join Date: Jul 2011       06-14-2012, 10:05 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by superfluous View Post
What kind of wake does your wife's alleged Lincoln put out?
I wouldn't know, she doesn't let me drive it. I am lucky to even get to ride in it

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