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Old    Austin Quina (GatorMD97)      Join Date: Jun 2012       06-06-2012, 5:28 PM Reply   
I've reached 40 and blown out my ACL in both knees; I've decided it's time to make wake surfing my primary water sport; however, I still want a boat with a great wakeboard wake for my son and daughter to grow into (ages 10 and 8). I have narrowed my search to basically 3 boats (Tige RZ2, Super Air Nautique 230, and the Malibu VLX). I have spent considerable time researching each of these boats but I can find very little information on the Nautique 230 in regards to wake surfing. I hate to start another this boat or that boat thread but any constructive input I can get regarding these boats, especially the 230 would be greatly appreciated. I have very limited time to test drive boats and not many dealers close so I want to get as much information and as many opinions as possible prior to any demos I set up. Here are my criteria:

1. The boat must be a 2009 or newer model year. I will not purchase a new boat ever again.

2. Wake surfing is my primary goal and I want a surf style wake with a LONG POCKET vs the skim style as I have extensive experience in real wave surfing and prefer a STEEP FACE with a crisp lip. I am 6' and 200 lbs if that makes a difference with the push of the wake.

3. My son and I both ride GOOFY, so the boat must put out a good starboard wake.

4. All ballast must be hidden and custom sacks must be able to be plumbed into the boat for full automation (I have no problem spending the cash to do it right). I'd like to stay away from fixed weights.

5. I have a Malibu dealer 35 miles from my house and a Tige dealer 100 miles away, there is not a close Nautique dealer. I spoke with the Malibu dealer today and he will be happy to service any boat I get.

6. The wife and I are into "luxury" and I am willing to pay for what I get. I'm really not interested comparing any other brand boats, I want to stick to these specific boats but would consider most anything in the 21' to 23' range from any of these manufacturers. I think the Malibu 24 LSV is to big for my boat house.

7. I would like to keep the budget max in the mid to low $70K range but will go higher for the right deal on a newer model if the deal is right.

8. I don't think I want a base engine in any of these boats as I plan on adding whatever weight is necessary to get the right surf wake.

Like I said, I don't want to start a flame war about which boat is better. I am merely looking for advice from people who have FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE with these particular boats. I have an appointment to see a 2011 230, a 2010 RZ2 and a 2012 VLX next week. Any advice on known problems and recalls on these boats is also much appreciated as well as links to boats that you know of that are for sale. Thanks in advance!

Austin
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       06-06-2012, 6:52 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorMD97 View Post
I've reached 40 and blown out my ACL in both knees; I've decided it's time to make wake surfing my primary water sport; however, I still want a boat with a great wakeboard wake for my son and daughter to grow into (ages 10 and 8). I have narrowed my search to basically 3 boats (Tige RZ2, Super Air Nautique 230, and the Malibu VLX). I have spent considerable time researching each of these boats but I can find very little information on the Nautique 230 in regards to wake surfing. I hate to start another this boat or that boat thread but any constructive input I can get regarding these boats, especially the 230 would be greatly appreciated. I have very limited time to test drive boats and not many dealers close so I want to get as much information and as many opinions as possible prior to any demos I set up. Here are my criteria:

1. The boat must be a 2009 or newer model year. I will not purchase a new boat ever again.

2. Wake surfing is my primary goal and I want a surf style wake with a LONG POCKET vs the skim style as I have extensive experience in real wave surfing and prefer a STEEP FACE with a crisp lip. I am 6' and 200 lbs if that makes a difference with the push of the wake.

3. My son and I both ride GOOFY, so the boat must put out a good starboard wake.

4. All ballast must be hidden and custom sacks must be able to be plumbed into the boat for full automation (I have no problem spending the cash to do it right). I'd like to stay away from fixed weights.

5. I have a Malibu dealer 35 miles from my house and a Tige dealer 100 miles away, there is not a close Nautique dealer. I spoke with the Malibu dealer today and he will be happy to service any boat I get.

6. The wife and I are into "luxury" and I am willing to pay for what I get. I'm really not interested comparing any other brand boats, I want to stick to these specific boats but would consider most anything in the 21' to 23' range from any of these manufacturers. I think the Malibu 24 LSV is to big for my boat house.

7. I would like to keep the budget max in the mid to low $70K range but will go higher for the right deal on a newer model if the deal is right.

8. I don't think I want a base engine in any of these boats as I plan on adding whatever weight is necessary to get the right surf wake.

Like I said, I don't want to start a flame war about which boat is better. I am merely looking for advice from people who have FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE with these particular boats. I have an appointment to see a 2011 230, a 2010 RZ2 and a 2012 VLX next week. Any advice on known problems and recalls on these boats is also much appreciated as well as links to boats that you know of that are for sale. Thanks in advance!

Austin
1. that's easy
2. Long pocket will be a Malibu LSV/247, RZ2 or a Centurion. 230 will be shorter, taller wave (but still big) - I'd recommend you at least *look* at the Centurion Enzo
3. Sack enough weight into *almost* any boat and the goofy wake is good
4. Anything 22'-24' should have the storage capacity to accomplish this. The serious wake surf guys run 1100+lbs sacks in the rear corners. Most of these run from the rear corner up under the seats moving forward. You would want to take the size/seating/storage compartments into consideration on the goody side since some boats are smaller on that side (VLX comes to mind - you may be better off in an LSV)
5. If you're not buying brand new and you are comfortable with your Malibu dealer servicing your non-Malibu boat, this is a non-issue. I had my Moomba serviced at a local Malibu dealer many times and was completely satisfied. Our local Moomba dealer was a joke. If you're not buying brand new (which you've indicated) and your warranty items are getting closer to being "your problem" - then buy the boat you like and have it serviced at the Bu' dealer. If you happened into the Tige - it may be worth the extra 65 miles each way to have it serviced there - but I wouldn't hesitate bringing *any* inboard wakeboat to *any* qualified dealer.
6. Based on this statement alone - I'm venturing to guess you will feel most comfortable in a Malibu LSV or a Malibu 247... In my *personal* opinion - they have the most luxurious feel and they both also put out a nice surf wake (2 requirements).. The VLX is a bit short (especially compared to the 22' and 23' you mentioned). You may be a better fit in the LSV (23')
7. All of the boats listed ( used) can be had in that price range.
8. Then dont. Easy as that. I wouldn't underestimate the power of a prop change, especially if you are at sea level. But I don't think many people regret going with the big motor and obviously you're not a budget buyer. You want the big motor - get it. Easy as that. Seems like the best choice.

My opinion is to look at the RZ2, the Bu' LSV and the Centurion Enzo.. Good size boats, "nice" feel to them, long surf pockets, in your price range, available with big motors.. The Natiques and Mastercrafts are fantastic boats but traditionally have taller, shorter waves (I'm sure the owners goggles will come out and argue those).. The Supreme 226 is also a fantastic wake but I have a feeling you wouldn't get the "luxury" feel you're looking for. But I guess at the end of the day - I also don't think you'll get that feel in the Tige and Centurion like you would in the LSV.

I'm sure you can see what direction I'm encouraging you. Just based on your description - that was the boat that stuck out in my mind. I have no affiliation to Malibu - just seemed like it ticked *all* of your check boxes. Size, price, wave, motor, service, luxury. Go with the LSV over the VLX, it will be worth it. Prepare to have every other post recommend you an MB.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       06-06-2012, 6:54 PM Reply   
Oh and to note - I re-read what you said. You mentioned the VLX (21') and the 247 (24'7") but didn't mention the LSV (23'). If you can fit a Natique 230 in your boat house, you can fit a Malibu LSV as well (same size). The 247 is the big mama.
Old    Austin Quina (GatorMD97)      Join Date: Jun 2012       06-06-2012, 7:19 PM Reply   
Jeff,

Thanks for your thoughtful input. I will do a bit more research on the larger Malibus.
Old    doug rose (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       06-06-2012, 7:31 PM Reply   
the tige will give you the best surf wave out of the 3 choices you have asked about. the 230 can perform well, but i dont know if you will ne happy with sacs on the seats, the vlx will be the least favorable and require the most effort to get the wave you want. I am 6'4 and 240, and now matter what boat i have surfed, being big is not in our favor, so you sacrifice board options as your wave gets smaller and has less push. i had bu's, then after many knee surgeries, stopped boarding and now only surf. i ended up with an 09 enzo 230 and just got a new 244, i am not saying look a centurion, but i want you to get a boat that makes for a fun day and keeps you free from bags on seats or extreme list that makes it dangerous. I know that with enough weight the cc 230 will make a nice wave. If you can fit a 247 bu in your boat house, that boat can also make a killer wave (maybe on of the best). wheelhouse has a massive wave and no bags exposed. you can search his info. the 23lsv bu is also a great option, i know it also requires alot of weight, but you can make it great and keep the bags hidden. in the end, all the deep v boats will kill and require alot less weight, so i would look at other brands just to see the fit and finish and if there is something that would make you and your wife happy, and also give you the best of both worlds
Old    JF Despars (jfd)      Join Date: Jul 2011       06-06-2012, 7:33 PM Reply   
I've seen and ridden nautiques, malibus and presently own a MC x15.
I ride goofy also

Malibu: very clean wake on both sides, with about 1000 lbs of extra weight you should have something amazing. very nice boat, good quality build, comfy. The only downside with this boat, is, in my opinion, the ****ty power wedge. Mine kept breaking.

CC: I haven't rode the CC with more than stock weight but the wake was still really good. also, the one I tried had the 3 stage stick thingy next to the throttle and it really changed the wake from the flatter/longer to steeper/shorter. The only things I dislike with this boat is that I feel that the interior quality doesn't seem to match up with the Bu and MC.

MC: it's the boat I have right now, the wake is a lot longer than the bu, similar in lenght as the CC. there's a nice lip at the top of it to get airs (i don't go real big, skim style surfer here)

If I were to choose between the boats you mentionned in your first post, i'd take the time to look closely and try them a lot. Do you plan on doing the maintenance yourself or having a dealer do it for you, if so, having a good dealer close to where you live should definitly make a difference in what boat you choose!
Old    D Hill (dhill)      Join Date: Aug 2010       06-06-2012, 7:50 PM Reply   
if surfing is your primary "want", i would avoid the 230. we have an '08 and the wakeboard wake is the best, but the surf wake is as jeff described, shorter and taller. have never rode a malibu or tige surf wake, but have rode the enzo. as suggested, you should add this boat to your list if surfing is that important.

lastly, i'd like to compliment jeff on his post. insightful, helpful, and in my opinion, answers most of your questions. now you just go demo, demo, demo

the attached pic is the best pic i have of our 230 starboard surf wake. full stock ballast in belly & starboard, 750 lb fat sac in starboard locker, 700 lbs bow sac, 200 lb driver, and 500 lbs of other persons in the main cabin, 10.4 mph.

sorry, but my technologically challenged a$$ could not rotate the photo
Attached Images
 
Old    Aaron Douglas (suprafly08)      Join Date: Dec 2008       06-06-2012, 7:53 PM Reply   
If you are looking to mainly surf, go to more surf specific boats. Malibus are great boats, nautilus too, mastercraft not so much. Kidding!

Centurion, Tige, MB, Supreme even Sanger are boats to consider. A lot of their boats are surf first, board second. Vs the bu, cc and mastercrafts are board first, surf second.

Nothing like getting the right tool for the job. Trust me I'm working with the wrong tool to surf (supra 21v) and trying to make it work. It has a great wake boarding wake tho!
Old    Bruizza (bruizza)      Join Date: May 2009       06-06-2012, 9:32 PM Reply   
We recently decided between a VLX and an RZ2. Coming from an Axis the wakeboard wake was very important to me. I had never ridden a Tige wake before. I was blown away at how good the Tige wakeboarding wake is. I had one of the better riders I know out on the RZ2 this weekend. After wakeboarding he said it was the first boat he has been in and behind that made him feel like he needs to upgrade from his early 2000s VLX. We have the pro ballast set up which is 2000lbs all hidden. The rear 350lb sacs can be swapped out quickly. There are numerous folks offering custom surf sacs for the Tige so you can get a crazy wave out of it.

The surf wave is just incredible behind the RZ2. I have never been much into surfing but that is changing some now that we have the Tige. I am the exact same size as you and the wave has plenty of push. The VLX is not going to give you the wave you desire. The wakeboarding wake is legendary but the surf wave is not. The other bonus for the Tige IMHO is that since the ballast pumps are on timers you can set them for any size bag you want. You can't do that with the Malibu touch screen system. Don't get me wrong I love the Bu and it was super tough to go with the Tige instead of the Bu but in the end it was the right fit for us. We demoed and made our decision. Good luck with your demos! I have 0 experience with the 230 so I can't help there.
Old    Sheldon (Fiveflat)      Join Date: Sep 2010       06-07-2012, 8:04 AM Reply   
Over Memorial weekend I had James Walker out on my 2012 Axis A22. I have the plug 'n play with 750lbs sacs and he killed it. His summary of the surf wake was:
"This is awesome for a stock wake!"

Of course James can kill on just about any wake... but he liked it. He's anxious to sac it a bit more and see what more we can do with it.
Old     (will5150)      Join Date: Oct 2002       06-07-2012, 11:46 AM Reply   
I admit it- I am biased- I owna Tige, Jeff Wadholm is a friend of mine too and it was a good review. I think the Tige surf wakes are among the best available if not the best. Boarding is good too, but I have to say the BEST wakeboard wake I have ever ridden with a macked out BU VLX without the Wedge ( Can't stand the wedge) it was super solid, huge and very , very clean. The wedge ( which this guy had on his boat) makes the wake so vertical - like a Nautique Super Air ( older model). I also love the fit and finish on the BU's. When I got mine, it was between the Tige 21V I own and the VLX ( came down to price).
Good luck.
Old    Jake (jdhart73)      Join Date: Mar 2010       06-07-2012, 12:35 PM Reply   
I own the 2012 Tige RZ2 and looked at all of the options last year with surfing being my priority.
I am extremely happy with the surf wake on my boat, I have the pro ballast system but purchased the custom sacs for the port and SB sides to really throw a monster wave. RZ2 pics and videos are worn the hell out so I won't bore you, but suffice to say I am real happy with mine so far and the layout and surf bimini and the like are all bonuses.
Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       06-07-2012, 2:47 PM Reply   
Might also want to look the Malibu MXZ. Pics of the surf wakes I've seen on that with the stock ballast were pretty nice. You will be hard pressed to find used, but the dealer at the boat show was selling a very well optioned new one for around 85k.
Old    Austin Quina (GatorMD97)      Join Date: Jun 2012       06-10-2012, 7:48 PM Reply   
Sold my boat yesterday, at dealer getting detailed and some guy came in and offered to buy it! Going to Tige dealer tomorrow to demo RZ2 and Z3, got a date with an MXZ and 23LSV Tuesday. I did not like the SANTE 230 I looked at, very small bow and no space to add custom sacs starboard or much in the rear. I know I said no new boats but the initial quotes on the new Malibus were really good. Research is telling me I will like the Tiges best but the dealer is 118 miles away and the bu dealer is only 35. It will be a hard decision If I like the Tige as much as I think I will. If I get the bu I won't need the trailer which will save another 5 to 6k making the MXZ even more appealing.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       06-10-2012, 10:25 PM Reply   
jeff's post was really good with great advice on the Malibu 23LSV. I too agree with will5150 about the vlx as the best wake (also agree the wedge is a no no). I think the 3 boats you will be picking from is the Bu 23LSV, Tige RZ2 and Z3. The bu will "feel" the most plush and "luxurious" as you mentioned you wanted. From reputation, the RZ2 should win in the wave category (don't know about the Z3, hearing great things) and the Bu should win in the wake category.

If you can, bring a couple fat sacks and a pump so that you can load up each boat to see their potential. Have fun and take pics for us.
Old     (Jape)      Join Date: May 2012       06-10-2012, 10:52 PM Reply   
Hey austin quina, how did the demos of the mxz and tige boats go? Curious on what you thought
Old    Austin Quina (GatorMD97)      Join Date: Jun 2012       06-11-2012, 6:03 PM Reply   
Got the RZ2 on the lake today. Spectacular boat optioned and painted just right. The price was 20% off MSRP but I'm not sure that is a good enough deal and the dealer didn't seem that hungry. They have a similiar 2010 with 160 hrs for 20K less but I hate the colors and hate the cooler location. There is a dealer in MN advertizing at 25% off MSRP but it would cost most of the savings to get it shipped. Going to demo the Malibus tomorrow. The 23 LSV will be 5K less than the RZ2 and the MXZ will be about the same price but it will have the bigger L96 engine in it. I'm wishing I wouldn't have sold my boat so quickly at this point because the used market is very depleted. I don't see how I could like the bu anymore I just hope I like it as much since the dealer is closer and more service after the sale oriented.
Old    Austin Quina (GatorMD97)      Join Date: Jun 2012       06-12-2012, 5:14 PM Reply   
Bought the 2012 RZ2. The Malibu MXZ was really nice but there were just to many things I liked better on the Tige. The fit and finish was definitely better on the bu but the price was just way to high. Reasons I went with Tige.

1. 5 year warranty on electronics and 3 years of routine maintenance.

2. Much better surf wake. I tested the MXZ with a 750 in the rear locker and it was comparable to the RZ2 stock, bigger face and a little shorter wave. I got the Tige plumbed with 2 extra 1600 custom fly high sacks which was virtually zero labor vs the bu which was a 3 hr install per side according to dealer.

3. Tige Touch a lot more user friendly and responsive than Maliview. The Maliview was not laid out very well but still very nice. I would compare the Touch to an iPhone and the View to a Droid. both really nice but the iPhone is slicker, more intuitive and just works.

4. Hated the wedge.

5. Much less bow rise on the Tige, did not feel safe with the MXZ seated while pulling a surfer because I couldn't see over the bow without standind and I am 6 ft. The flip up captain seat bolster is terrible on the bu, felt like I was constantly sliding off and not near high enough.

6. Tige is more fuel efficient.

7. Bow grab handles on MXZ are horribly laid out. They are placed right in the middle of we're your back or side rests when lounging up front in several positions except rearward.

8. Price, loaded RZ2 with every option deliverd with trailer and shrink wrapped was $7k less than the Malibu with a 6.0 409 (which I feel is a must in that boat), no trailer and only a base stereo. The engine is most of the cost here but I think the RZ2 is fine with the 5.7.

9. The Tige is a drier ride. Wife got slashed twice on the bu but never on the Tige.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       06-12-2012, 6:21 PM Reply   
Congratulations on your new boat! Now enjoy the summer!
Old    doug rose (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       06-12-2012, 6:52 PM Reply   
congrats, i hope it is great for you and the fam. its cool to see more and more competitive options in wakeboats. i think surfing will continue to grow and more and more boat companies will really start to take this serious and make an effort to make suft specific boats that still make a killer wakeboard wake. cheers
Old    Tal Cloud (Kingsriver)      Join Date: Aug 2011       06-12-2012, 9:15 PM Reply   
Great job. Glad you found a boat that works for you and your family. Enjoy this summer and may more. Post up the pictures.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       06-13-2012, 6:28 AM Reply   
Congrats man. Post some pics!
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       06-13-2012, 6:37 AM Reply   
Why no pics...?
Old    Austin Quina (GatorMD97)      Join Date: Jun 2012       06-13-2012, 7:06 PM Reply   
Boat won't be here until tomorrow and all I have is my iPad up here at my lake house. Will post pics next week when I get back home
Old     (will5150)      Join Date: Oct 2002       06-14-2012, 1:19 PM Reply   
outstanding! it's always good to hear about the outcome on these kinds of posts. I have to say, the older I get, the more surfing sounds better ( less painful ) and i love the surf wake on my Tige. Was out last weekend surfing again and i am convinced it's one of th ebest surf wakes you'll find. My boat is 11 years old now and it is rock solid. Construction on these Tiges is very good and the 5.7 with the right prop will push that boat very nicely.

Pics !!!

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