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Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       05-30-2012, 10:00 AM Reply   
People forget that oil prices also affect boat prices and not just at the pump. Over the past few years I've heard so many people say that its ridiculous how much boat prices have raised. Well fiberglass is a petroleum based product, when oil prices rise, so does fiberglass cost and just about everything else that gets poured into these boats. That said, if your not price point go with the Malibu, if you are price point, go with the Axis. Either way you'll get a great boat for the money and both boats will more than satisfy your wake/surf/tube/and light entertainment needs. You just have to ask yourself if all those bells and whistles of the Malibu are worth the costs. Are you a die hard wakeboarder? I am only curious becuase if you are a recreational rider than wake shouldn't be a first concern. I would decide based on company, quality, price, and options. Obviously you like Malibu which is a great company, axis seems more in your price range, and as far as options you can get full factory ballast with PP. Any V drive with factory ballast and PP will have a surf wake as well. Good luck in your hunt post some pics when you pull the trigger!
Old    Mike G (MikeyG)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-30-2012, 10:01 AM Reply   
Well that depends. Does a similarly equipped VLX cost $90k+ these days?? I honestly have no idea. All I know is that I would have had roughly $70k+ into an A22 last fall.


Would a better comparison be an A22 and a Vride?
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       05-30-2012, 10:02 AM Reply   
It would also be better for comparison sake if you guys didn't quote the OTD price. At least not including tax and license. Those two additional costs vary from state to state and some don't have tax at all. For example in Washington we pay around 10% sales tax. In Portland, none. Even if the boats were the same price you would pay 10% more here then in Oregon.
Old    Mike G (MikeyG)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-30-2012, 10:03 AM Reply   
BTW - Standard motor too
Old    Mike G (MikeyG)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-30-2012, 10:04 AM Reply   
7% tax on new boats here.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-30-2012, 10:16 AM Reply   
Mike, that's crazy. My friend paid under 50k (not including tax) for a nicely equipped 2011 A20 last season. He could have gotten a nicely equipped A22 for mid 50's with the small motor. I know of several people who bought small motor vandall edition A22's last year for around 60k. Some slightly under, some slightly over.

What some people fail to recognize is that the more expensive axis boats out there have stereo pack III, which consists of a syn 6, syn 2, pro 485's, xs650's and an xs-12. That's a hell of a factory stereo, and it rivals anything put on any factory boat. Yeah, that's going to jack up the price. Also, the big motor option is super expensive on all boats. That's why it's important to make sure we are comparing apples to apples here. My suspicion is that an LSV with the big motor and highest end stereo is going to be 90k, while an A22 is going to be closer to $65k.

Sure, you can get a vlx with a standard motor, minus some bells and whistles and compare it to an A22 equipped like mine and reduce the difference in price, but that's not exactly apples to apples.

And, the big variance here is dealer to dealer pricing. Some dealers in the southeast sell the exact same boat at a price 10-15% higher than other dealers in the same area. Also, its best to compare figures that people are actually paying for boats, as opposed to what people are quoted right when they walk in the door.

Last edited by chattwake; 05-30-2012 at 10:20 AM.
Old    Brett B. (Brett_B)      Join Date: Sep 2010       05-30-2012, 10:44 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattwake View Post
Sure, you can get a vlx with a standard motor, minus some bells and whistles and compare it to an A22 equipped like mine and reduce the difference in price, but that's not exactly apples to apples.
And who here has done that? I am absolutely comparing option per option boats and it looks like everybody else is too. Please don't insinuate that the rest of us just don't understand how to compare boats.

Whether it was reflected in your deals or not, the Axis prices have gone up substantially in the past 2 years, decreasing the price difference to a comparably equipped Wakesetter. That doesn’t mean it’s not still a great boat at a good price. Your Axis is still awesome, and I look forward to seeing more pictures of it.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-30-2012, 11:24 AM Reply   
Brett,

Well, not everyone may be as familiar with the options that are offered on the vlx, lsv, mxz and A22 are you and I are. It's important to make sure people are being fair about pricing. Apparently, you are, so that's great. However, it boils down to things like, which stereo options to both boats have? Do both boats have a standard bimini? Do both boats have upgraded gel? What trailers are we talking? Many people don't realize that a z5, metal flake, and a tricked out axis trailer can result in a 5-7k difference in the base price of a boat. Add an upgraded motor and sound pack III, and you're looking at a $15k+ difference between an A22 with a standard motor, standard trailer, white gel, and standard bimini.
Old    Mike G (MikeyG)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-30-2012, 11:55 AM Reply   
So now all of a sudden it's not sounding like the prices I got were that far off....

$55k for a 2011 A22 with small motor and a few options, 2 tone color, heater, w/ regular trailer
$58k for a 2012 A22 with small motor and a few options, all black w/ regular trailer
$64k for a 2012 A22 Vandal edition with small motor, metal flake gel, heater, tower speakers, and a tricked out trailer

I want to say I was told there was a 6% increase going to happen or it just happened at the time. Maybe it was the 2011 to 2012 model... don't quote me but I remember being told about a 6% increase happening at some time.
Old    Mike G (MikeyG)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-30-2012, 12:02 PM Reply   
add the big motor upgrade and you would be back in the $70k range for a Vandal and low to mid $60's for a regular one. Still need to upgrade the stereo.... and then if you want the Z5...... Am I doing my math wrong......?

I am sure there are deals to be had. but it sounds like both Brett and I had very similar prices
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       05-30-2012, 12:08 PM Reply   
All in all the axis has lost some of its bang for its buck as its price has increased. If you're paying 70k prior to some key upgrades, then odds are you're only about 10k off form the VLX and maybe 12-13k from an LSV. The G3, powerwedge, faster filling ballast, and maliview make up that difference pretty quickly. The power wedge alone is worth the upgrade over the free floating for the control it gives you.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-30-2012, 12:19 PM Reply   
I doubt anyone is paying $70k for an Axis.

I suspect that the msrp for a vandal edition with z5, ls3 and stereo pack III is somewhere in the the neighborhood of 70k, but that's MSRP.

What's the MSRP of a loaded VLX/LSV with the big motor, upgraded gel, wetsounds stereo, upgraded trailer package, etc. (which won't even factor in the $2k cost of a z5, which is not yet available for the G3).

Last edited by chattwake; 05-30-2012 at 12:25 PM.
Old    Sheldon (Fiveflat)      Join Date: Sep 2010       05-30-2012, 12:21 PM Reply   
What someone pays vs. msrp might be two different things as well though. Every option available including LS3 for an A22 should list out in the mid $70's shouldn't it?
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-30-2012, 12:24 PM Reply   
You also have to keep in mind that you can still get a standard axis, with standard gel, a standard trailer, standard motor, standard bimini, stereo pack II, and pnp for close to $50k. That's still a bargain. Yes, due to customer demand, Axis has offered a bunch of extra features, which, in turn, drives up the cost of the boat. It is what it is.

Also, with the addition of cats, nicer vinyl, and other standard options, the price of the base A22 has gone up over the past 3 years. Name me a wakeboat that has not had a decent price increase over the past 3 years? Hell, the '10 SANTE 230 I bought in '09 cost me $20k more than the '08 SANTE cost me in '07. Yes, I got a z5, LINC system, and a different tower on the '10, but costs go up with demand, with material costs, and to reflect added features. Sure, at some point, cost gets so high, that the boat itself loses affordability/value to a certain segmant of purchasers - hence part of the reason I switched to Axis.

Last edited by chattwake; 05-30-2012 at 12:28 PM.
Old    Mike G (MikeyG)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-30-2012, 12:30 PM Reply   
Real world pricing = 2012 A22, all black, minimal options, regular trailer, crappy stereo = $58k.

Here is the one I listed one for $64k. Chatt, how come you cannot fathom a $70+ Axis? Put a big motor in this one and a Z5 with wetsounds and your are there man.

Old    Preston (Bamabonners)      Join Date: Jul 2011       05-30-2012, 12:34 PM Reply   
Here is my take on the Axis and Malibu argument. Is the plushness of the malibu and the touchscreens worth the extra 20k+ over the seating options in the Axis and the plug and play ballast? That is up to you to do decide. We didn't like the styling of the Axis, but loved the comfort in the malibu.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-30-2012, 12:35 PM Reply   
Mike G - is that MSRP, or what the boat SOLD for?
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-30-2012, 12:36 PM Reply   
That's a good looking boat there, btw. Wow. Hadn't seen that color combo before.
Old    Preston (Bamabonners)      Join Date: Jul 2011       05-30-2012, 12:39 PM Reply   
that V and skeleton hand has me scratching my head. Just doesn't seem to fit the lines of the boat IMO>
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            05-30-2012, 12:50 PM Reply   
There is a A22 new on onlyinboards w/ the Z5, 335 and mtx audio package for $64k listed.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       05-30-2012, 12:56 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamabonners View Post
that V and skeleton hand has me scratching my head. Just doesn't seem to fit the lines of the boat IMO>
Unfotunately Axis has never had a single good looking decal. The good news though is they are just stickers and th boats look a million times better naked.
Old    Sheldon (Fiveflat)      Join Date: Sep 2010       05-30-2012, 1:03 PM Reply   
Nekkid:


Old    LR3w8kbrdr            05-30-2012, 1:07 PM Reply   
Yeah but it still looks better than the new Xstar

Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       05-30-2012, 1:19 PM Reply   
that grey and green is SIIIIKKKK
Old    Andrew (ajf4242)      Join Date: Aug 2008       05-30-2012, 1:47 PM Reply   
I own an A22 and have been behind some vlx's and have demoed the mxz. A22 in my opinion has more cockpit seating an space just from being in those. The interiors do not compare or the gadgets do not compare to each other at all, lets just throw that down. I have a 2011 and every option I could have got besides the big motor and paid 62k. I didn't go with a Vandall. I really like my boat, wish I would have got the bigger engine though because it has trouble pulling me out with 750's in the rear (i do have the 5 blade prop). After having a Supra 22 and being in many Nautique 230's and other brands such as Epic, Centurion, Mastercraft. . . I think I made the right decision. I had issues with my Supra and it had higher interior and all that, but the wake was the biggest thing for me. All the boats besides Malibu/Axis seem to be very weight sensitive. That is why I chose to go with the Axis. I love the seating and the simplicity of everything. I don't have to worry about stupid electronics going off or a dumb lcd screen not working it's all easy to work on if need be. All in all it depends on the person. I love all brands of boats, but I definitely don't think any boat is worth paying what most are going for. Why would I spend 30k more on a tricked out 230 when the wake is just as nice. I like to ride and I guess it's not that big of a deal to me to have the "coolest stereo" or super thick vinyl. One way or another something will break and a scratch will occur and i'm not having to worry as much as I would with a boat that costs 10-20k more. I take well care of my boat and the only interior issue was the back corner seat pulling away from the stitching and was taken care off no questions asked. Unfortunately I have had events happen (got rear ended on the highway going 65 mph) that has caused issues with the gel in the back and a few other things. When I go to buy another boat I will more than likely get another a22 unless I can find a killer deal on a 230 or g23.
Old    A.J. West (you_da_man)      Join Date: Sep 2009       05-30-2012, 1:47 PM Reply   
I bought my A22 at this time last year (May 28th) and after my purchase my dealer (Central Texas Watersports) had only one Axis allotted to him left and it was on the lot. At this time he has 3 Axis on the lot and I believe still has some not built yet AND the exact same features as my 2011 with a price increase of $6,000. Hope this might help the trade-in/resale value of my boat.
Old     (Jape)      Join Date: May 2012       05-30-2012, 2:02 PM Reply   
Thank you all again for all the help and comments. I was thinking that the best bang for your buck would be chatts boats after he uses them for a year.... Haha. That would actually be a viable option. I am actually new to wakeboarding and posed the question because I felt somewhat weird buying a boat like the mxz or nautique, if I could get a great boat for less. I mean I still have issues getting out of the water.... Haha (I know lame). It is just hard to forget about the cushiness of the more exspensive boats.
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       05-30-2012, 2:10 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jape View Post
Thank you all again for all the help and comments. I was thinking that the best bang for your buck would be chatts boats after he uses them for a year.... Haha. That would actually be a viable option. I am actually new to wakeboarding and posed the question because I felt somewhat weird buying a boat like the mxz or nautique, if I could get a great boat for less. I mean I still have issues getting out of the water.... Haha (I know lame). It is just hard to forget about the cushiness of the more exspensive boats.
That is just awesome. Go big or go home!

Best advice: if you are new to wakeboarding boats and you are really willing to spend $75K on your 1st boat, you really need to go test drive nearly every boat you can. Whether people want to admit it or not, the top boat brands (Nati, Bu, MC, Centurion, Tige, Supra, Sanger, MB, Axis, etc) all make very nice boats. Any one of these boats will have way more wake than 95% of the riders out there can handle. So it comes down to dealer/layout/storage/tower/finish out/etc and most of that is personal taste.

Have a great time looking around and take your time.
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            05-30-2012, 2:20 PM Reply   
And guys dont flame him now...take it easy on him. Hell i wish i would have learned yrs ago behind a true wakeboat.

Nothing wrong with getting advice here and buying a brand new first boat.
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       05-30-2012, 2:29 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by LR3w8kbrdr View Post
And guys dont flame him now...take it easy on him. Hell i wish i would have learned yrs ago behind a true wakeboat.

Nothing wrong with getting advice here and buying a brand new first boat.
I am not flaming him, just a little jealous. I wish I could have had that kind of $ to put down on a 1st boat.

But I am serous about him test driving as many boats as possible. He has a lot of options with that type of budget.
Old    Mike G (MikeyG)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-30-2012, 5:44 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattwake View Post
Mike G - is that MSRP, or what the boat SOLD for?
This was NOT MSRP. The MSRP was more but I do not recall what it was. $64,5xx was the dealers price to me after spending some time at the dealership, demoing the boat for more than 2 hours both riding and driving, and sitting in the sales office with a pre-approval to make the purchase. They knocked some money off here and there - punching different numbers into the calculator and the prices I listed above was what they said their best prices were for me. We talked about different ways to get the boat cheaper and I expressed to them that it was more than I was expecting etc... We were so far off that I didn't bother playing the "price circle jerk" with him. I was expecting them to be much cheaper. Not sure what they eventually sold for but it sounds to me like his prices were not really off the mark in comparison to what I'm hearing on here.

So ajf4242 paid $62k for a loaded 2011 Non-Vandal A22. Was this with a Z5, full WetSounds sytstem, and tricked out trailer?? Don't forget to factor in the price increase for the 2012's....

Here is the BIG question - HOW MUCH DOES IT COST TO GET THE BIG MOTOR UPGRADE?

$70k+ here we come!

I'm not saying these boats are not worth the price tag. Some think so. But it seems like most people think these boats cost much less than they actually do.

Not trying to argue. I'm trying to educate! it is what it is.
Old    Victor Imondi (imondi)      Join Date: Aug 2010       05-30-2012, 6:09 PM Reply   
Did I just get a really good deal or what?? I got an 11 a22 last September with every option but underwater lights, tower mirror, and tricked out trailer for under 55k out the door! That was with the big motor, all PnP bags included, and a pair of rev 10s for the tower! These prices seem insane!
Old    Andrew (ajf4242)      Join Date: Aug 2008       05-30-2012, 6:34 PM Reply   
Mike G, I have the Z5 on mine tricked out trailer and everything else. They did not offer a full wetsounds system in 2011 otherwise I would have paid for it. I have the MTX speakers and they do ok. I have the dec trac, the chilax seating, the stereo remote in the back, tower mirror, under water lights, docking lights, heater, tatami mat. . . the list goes on. Like I said I got everything, but the big engine, which I regret big time now. The 400 raptor was a $4,000 option and I will now never make the same mistake again. Once you put that wedge down and have everything full with 750's in the rear I can't plane with any prop. I usually just drain the back until I can get on plane and then go. The price might be high, but you get a lot of boat for the money too in my opinion. Here is a picture of my boat.
Attached Images
  
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-30-2012, 7:28 PM Reply   
^^^^ love that color combo!! Have you tried the core prop, and if you have, have you called oj or acme and discussed what you want out of a prop. I bet you can get a prop to get you on plane with those 750s but you will be running some rpms at cruising speed.
Old    Andrew (ajf4242)      Join Date: Aug 2008       05-30-2012, 7:40 PM Reply   
I had the acme 1615 with that special cup for a little while and It got up with 4 people in the boat with it all full, but it wasn't worth it to me to be running that high of rpms all the time. I'm fine with draining and going, but next time I get a new boat, I will be getting the 400+ horse engine no questions asked. Haven't tried the core prop, i got the 1235 when I got the boat. You live and learn. Thanks though, I like the colors a lot, I'm a fan or orange.
Old    Lou Ferraro (ferral)      Join Date: Sep 2007       05-30-2012, 7:47 PM Reply   
I just ordered my my 2012 Vandall. I got most options except the z5 and big motor. So this include the upgrade gel, tricked out trailer, wet sounds, pnp with 750s for the rear, etc. MSRP is close to 73, I got it for about 67. Pretty sure I could have got more off if I took one off the lot. A few people have asked and I was told about $6300 more for the big motor, give or take.

For reference, I could have gotten a 21 Ride for about the same price but it would have been on a standard trailer and no stereo upgrade. My wife loves that all of the weight in the A22 is hidden away out of sight that wouldn't be th case in the Ride.

Also looked at a Vlx and Mxz, but considered those to be out of reach price wise. I did think the A22 cabin felt
a bit roomier than the Mxz, but not certain that's true. If money was not an issue, probably would have gone Mxz. The Lsv is just too big to me.
Old    Ktrent (ktrent)      Join Date: Jul 2010       05-30-2012, 8:06 PM Reply   
i love the z5 but not on the g3 tower. it looks a little bulky in the pictures but never seen one in person.

back to the topic. everyone is talking about the surf wake on the a22 and the lsv (which we all no is awesome) but has anyone talked about the surf wake on the mxz. i will be retiring my vlx this season and was going with a 23 until the mxz came out. i wanted to give it a year to see what was up. i love the look of axis and malibu boats on the water. they look so mean and nasty. even my wife says they look much beter that MCs on the water. i am no hater though have a xstar in the past so don't start.

also i read on bucrew that there would be a mxz 24 next year. any truth to that???
Old    Brett B. (Brett_B)      Join Date: Sep 2010       05-31-2012, 6:40 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jape View Post
I was thinking that the best bang for your buck would be chatts boats after he uses them for a year.... Haha. That would actually be a viable option.
This is actually a pretty smart approach! Instead of onlyinboards.com there should be onlyChattsboats.com. One lucky buyer is guaranteed to get a well cared for boat with a bangin stereo every year.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-31-2012, 7:04 AM Reply   
Hahaha. That's pretty much what happens. I always cut someone a great deal at the end of the year.
Old    William Burell (williamburell)      Join Date: Sep 2011       05-31-2012, 8:59 AM Reply   
Would be interesting to get a spreadsheet going of who paid what and with what options. I'm contemplating getting a new a22 this winter or a slightly used boat and would love to see where everything falls. I'll gladly put it together
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       05-31-2012, 9:03 AM Reply   
So can you get a 2012 A22 with the following for 50-55ish?

standard gelcoat
standard tandem trailer
335 engine
plug and play
Cruise
Standard tower
One set of fixed racks
standard bimini
cover
No stereo
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-31-2012, 9:06 AM Reply   
I would think so.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-31-2012, 9:07 AM Reply   
Hell, I sold my '11 with the big motor, full wetsounds system, tricked out trailer, vandall package - basically everything but a bimini or batteries, for mid 50's.

That guy got a smokin deal.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       05-31-2012, 9:17 AM Reply   
What are everbodies opinions on the floating wedge? What is the option cost and is it worth it? I would think that you could skip the wedge all together and just do plug and play with 750's or 900's in the rear and the 950 pound bow sack? That would have you setup for wakeboarding and surfing unless the wedge really helps the wakeboard or surf wake but I was under the impression the wedge doesnt' work well for surfing.
Old    Ed (elc)      Join Date: Jan 2008       05-31-2012, 10:01 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by polarbill View Post
What are everbodies opinions on the floating wedge? What is the option cost and is it worth it? I would think that you could skip the wedge all together and just do plug and play with 750's or 900's in the rear and the 950 pound bow sack? That would have you setup for wakeboarding and surfing unless the wedge really helps the wakeboard or surf wake but I was under the impression the wedge doesnt' work well for surfing.
The wake is different with the wedge and it really becomes preference. johnydefacto on this site does not have the wedge on his a22 but has similar weight set up as you suggest, plus some lead. I have the wedge on my a22 so I have ridden both and so has john. The wedge ads a lip at the top of the wake that you won't get with weight.

I can't comment on surfing, I haven't weighted my boat to try it.
Old    Andrew (ajf4242)      Join Date: Aug 2008       05-31-2012, 10:57 AM Reply   
I would not get a malibu without the wedge. I like the wake with just the wedge and no weight sometimes when i'm trying to learn new stuff. I think it helps the wake out a lot having it down, but then again it's all personal opinion. I've ridden with the wedge up and didn't care for the wake as much as it's down. Personally I like having the floating wedge than a power wedge as well. The power wedge if you were to hit something you're super screwed at least with the floating wedge if you hit something you have more play in there so it could potentially save you from a lot of damage. Plus you don't have to mess around with setting because the floating wedge finds the best spot for the wake from my understanding. As for the surf wake on my boat it's not the greatest. I can still surf without a rope and do 360's and stuff, but it's not as good as my Supra's was or a lot of other boats i've been on. This has to do with that platform cutting into the wave as said before. I'm sure the new platform has an awesome wave. Overall though it does what I need it do and I've been very happy with the boat.
Old    MK (csswake3)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-31-2012, 11:02 AM Reply   
We have a VLX without the Power Wedge and just have the manual wedge. If we could do it over again we would without a doubt get the power wedge, its either up or down with the manual. Power you can tweak it more and play around with it, I don't know the price difference, but I would not pump that much money into a boat and not get the power wedge, but that's just my opinion.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       05-31-2012, 11:08 AM Reply   
I don't think you can get an Axis with the power wedge. The floating wedge is the only option as far as wedges go. I am not really interested in buying a boat but though I would try and bring up some things to keep the discussion going that might help potential buyers.
Old    Sippi (sippi)      Join Date: Dec 2007       05-31-2012, 11:13 AM Reply   
get the wedge if you're getting the boat. if you don't want it, don't use it, or take it off. but get it. the next owner might really want it and not want to go out and buy one.
Old    Andrew (ajf4242)      Join Date: Aug 2008       05-31-2012, 11:16 AM Reply   
the power wedge is not an option on the axis, I was just stating that I liked the floating wedge better for the reasons stated and the floating wedge is different then the manual wedge, the floating wedge u push the 2 pins together drop it and that's that, the manual it sits in one spot after u put it down in the position. I guess the only upside to the power wedge is those cold days were u don't want to get your hands cold.
Old    Bruizza (bruizza)      Join Date: May 2009       05-31-2012, 11:30 AM Reply   
The other bonus of the power wedge is you wait until you plane out and move it up to the desired position. You can waste a lot of gas in the axis tring to get on plane with the wedge dropped since by its nature it is trying to create as much drag as possible.
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       05-31-2012, 12:26 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajf4242 View Post
the power wedge is not an option on the axis, I was just stating that I liked the floating wedge better for the reasons stated and the floating wedge is different then the manual wedge, the floating wedge u push the 2 pins together drop it and that's that, the manual it sits in one spot after u put it down in the position. I guess the only upside to the power wedge is those cold days were u don't want to get your hands cold.
I think the power wedge is much better. AS Brian said, you can put the wedge all the way down to plane out, it's also better to have it allo the way down for surfing, keeps the wave cleaner. You can adjust the lip on the wake for the rider. I think the only way to go on a wedge is the power wedge. The other options seem more of a PITA to me, and I'd rather not have one at all going that route.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-31-2012, 1:10 PM Reply   
There are pros and cons of each. Power wedge = more stuff to break, you have to adjust it to the optimal height, you have to be moving to raise it. Floating wedge = you can't manually adjust it, it just automatically goes to the spot with the greatest downforce when going in a straight line, you can raise and lower it by hand whenever you want, less to break over time.
Old    Jeremy G (Giesh164)      Join Date: Mar 2012       05-31-2012, 1:11 PM Reply   
i may be wrong, but i believe u can't operate the power wedge while at wake speed. only at idle
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       05-31-2012, 1:18 PM Reply   
You can't go over 25mph with the powerwedge, you can operate it at any speed bellow that. you do need to be moving to make it come up up
Old    Brett B. (Brett_B)      Join Date: Sep 2010       05-31-2012, 1:19 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giesh164 View Post
i may be wrong, but i believe u can't operate the power wedge while at wake speed. only at idle
If the power wedge has been deployed, you can certainly adjust it from 0% (all the way down) to 100% (max wedge, ~45 degree angle) while at wake speeds. However it can only be deployed from it's stow position under the platform, or returned to stow, while at idle speeds. You aren't exactly going to drop the manual wedge from it's stowed position while at wake speeds either...

We love the power wedge, it makes it so easy to make small adjustments to the wake shape without having to change the ballast. In fact we even have a hand signal for "wedge up" or "wedge down" that the rider gives the driver. One click up or down while riding makes a very clear change to the wake shape.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       05-31-2012, 1:20 PM Reply   
What is the option cost for a floating wedge on a malibu/Axis and what is the option cost for a power wedge on a malibu? The power wedge has to be a 4 or 5k option isn't it?
Old    Brett B. (Brett_B)      Join Date: Sep 2010       05-31-2012, 1:24 PM Reply   
Power wedge is $2k, I forget the floating wedge price.
Old    Jeremy G (Giesh164)      Join Date: Mar 2012       05-31-2012, 1:25 PM Reply   
well, i guess i was wrong! thanx for the info
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       05-31-2012, 1:28 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brett_B View Post
Power wedge is $2k, I forget the floating wedge price.
2k over the floating wedge or 2k total for adding a wedge to a boat that doesn't come standard with any sort of wedge? That seems cheap. I would definately add a power wedge to a Malibu if that is the cost over having no wedge at all. Now if a floating wedge is 1500 and then the power wedge is another 2k on top of that ti would be a tough choice. no wedge at all might be a good way to go if you don't really care much about having one.
Old    Sheldon (Fiveflat)      Join Date: Sep 2010       05-31-2012, 1:42 PM Reply   
I never use the floating wedge on my Axis...
Old    Sheldon (Fiveflat)      Join Date: Sep 2010       05-31-2012, 1:43 PM Reply   
What are the two different towers that Axis has? I thought there was only one. The "Standard" tower comment above leads me to believe there is an optional one?
Old    Brett B. (Brett_B)      Join Date: Sep 2010       05-31-2012, 1:48 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by polarbill View Post
2k over the floating wedge or 2k total for adding a wedge to a boat that doesn't come standard with any sort of wedge? That seems cheap. I would definately add a power wedge to a Malibu if that is the cost over having no wedge at all. Now if a floating wedge is 1500 and then the power wedge is another 2k on top of that ti would be a tough choice. no wedge at all might be a good way to go if you don't really care much about having one.
No, it's $2k total. You can order a Malibu with no wedge at all. Adding a power wedge to a boat that has no wedge is $2k.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       05-31-2012, 1:52 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brett_B View Post
No, it's $2k total. You can order a Malibu with no wedge at all. Adding a power wedge to a boat that has no wedge is $2k.
Wow, that isn't that bad. Is there a reason it isn't an option on the Axis boats? Does it have to do with them not having a screen or cpu setup for the dash and switches?
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       05-31-2012, 3:52 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by polarbill View Post
Wow, that isn't that bad. Is there a reason it isn't an option on the Axis boats? Does it have to do with them not having a screen or cpu setup for the dash and switches?
They DO offer the power wedge on the Axis. They also offer the Maliview, G3 tower, thicker vinyl, carpet and all the other goodies. But the deal is... once you add all that stuff it's no longer called the A22.... It's called an MXZ! Ha!!

The real answer to your question is simply "product differentiation."
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-31-2012, 4:18 PM Reply   
The mxz has a different hull than an A22.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       05-31-2012, 4:31 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ixfe View Post
They DO offer the power wedge on the Axis. They also offer the Maliview, G3 tower, thicker vinyl, carpet and all the other goodies. But the deal is... once you add all that stuff it's no longer called the A22.... It's called an MXZ! Ha!!

The real answer to your question is simply "product differentiation."

lol... nice one. I got the joke

Like ELC said, I ordered mine without the wedge (solely based on my experience with the wake of an 07 vlx heavily weighted). It is preference and you need to demo the boat with sacks, then with and without the wedge. It think the floating wedge was a $900 option or so, and was told I could add it later for $1100 if I wanted to. I personally am happy without it, but have ridden ELC's boat with a little less ballast and the wedge and it is a really really good wake, just slightly different.

for $1K, i think it is a good option to get if you are not completely sure if you want it or not. It is good for resale and it gives you another option to help shape your wake.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       05-31-2012, 4:58 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_defacto View Post
lol... nice one. I got the joke
Apparently Chatt did not...
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-31-2012, 5:26 PM Reply   
DBC - hahahaha. I got it. Jeeze, I just don't want to have to clarify for those who don't understand that the mxz and A22 are completely different hulls. I'm pretty sure I went through that on here a while back when the mxz came out.
Old    Jimmy Winkle (jimmyd)      Join Date: Apr 2012       05-31-2012, 5:33 PM Reply   
I'm anxious to see what happens to axis.

A 25% price increase over 3 years is unheard of at the state our economy has been in. I bet a dealer today can hardly get a stripped down axis for their 39K advertised price point.

The problem I see with axis is that the boats can be sick, but your looking at a 60k boat. 30k is the boat stripped down, then the rest of the price is options. Good luck on the resale value of that sucker in 5 years
Old    Jimmy Winkle (jimmyd)      Join Date: Apr 2012       05-31-2012, 5:38 PM Reply   
point being, buy the malibu if you want to keep it a while. you will pay more upfront, but you will probably get most of the difference back on the resell of it in comparison to an axis. The used market isnt too kind on add-ons and option pricing
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       05-31-2012, 5:45 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattwake View Post
DBC - hahahaha. I got it. Jeeze, I just don't want to have to clarify for those who don't understand that the mxz and A22 are completely different hulls. I'm pretty sure I went through that on here a while back when the mxz came out.
It's all good. I actually remember that A22 vs. MXZ back-and-forth, and I was in part poking fun at the notion that they are the same. Some of the initial impressions of the MXZ was that it looked like an A22 in Malibu dress. Obviously, we now know that's not true.

But I was also making a point... much of the feature make-up of an Axis can be understood as simple "feature differentiation." Obviously Malibu has to make the differences stark.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       05-31-2012, 10:48 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ixfe View Post
But I was also making a point... much of the feature make-up of an Axis can be understood as simple "feature differentiation." Obviously Malibu has to make the differences stark.
I agree completely. I think Malibu has done a very good job of keeping both boat brands separate and unique, even though they are made side by side in the same factory. The look and feel of the bu screens classy, comfort, plushness, and has the newest technology (touch screens, presets...). Axis has an edgy look, basic and simple interior layout and design, basic, simple, and clean drivers area and controls and puts less effort in quality and more effort into a "riders boat" design.

funny thing about the Axis was it came out when it seemed that EVERYONE on here (myself included) was begging for the following: 21ish foot vdrive wake boat with a tower, speed control, lots of ballast and some board racks that put out a great wake. Well, Axis did that and even through in stereos and adjustable seating and standard LED lighting and a decent stereo (mtx speakers and amps) on a standard trailer....AND it is made by one of the "big 3" with a truly incredible wake....

BUT... ALMOST EVERY AXIS I SEE NOW have tricked out trailers, heaters, extra LEDs everywhere, upgraded stereo's that are crazy loud, upgraded gel scheme, upgraded Z5 cargo bimini, upgraded swivel racks, swivel drivers seat.... etc. No wonder they are pushing into the $60k range and higher. And then I laugh when there are complaints of cheap interior.... duh, it was designed as a budget wakeboard boat for riders...

Mine is the most stripped down A22 I have ever seen to date and nowhere near the $60K+ range some of you guys have been quoted... no way I would buy an axis for $70k, I don't care what motor it had.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       05-31-2012, 11:25 PM Reply   
^^^ This is so true. You really hit the nail on the head. The Axis was designed as a basic rider's boat. And yet most of the owners have ignored that and optioned the boat up to so be so expensive they lose the connection to the boats original mission / roots.

Malibu has got to be laughing all the way to the bank on this. What an interesting lesson we've all taught them. As Johnny said, we screamed for a budget boat. They gave it to us. Then we went and turned it back into an expensive boat with our own behavior. Sort of like owners of pro sports teams who cry poor... just before they sign yet another overhyped player to a long-term, max contract.

I gotta side with Johhny and Chatt on this one... the A22 could probably be had for very cheap. But 18" wheels, Corvette motors, and Wetsounds gear all costs a sh*t ton of money no matter what boat you sprinkle it on.
Old    Mike G (MikeyG)      Join Date: Apr 2010       06-01-2012, 3:31 AM Reply   
Budget boat = $55k with minimal options and less effort into quality nowadays....
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       06-01-2012, 6:01 AM Reply   
Look, the A22 was introduced in 2009 as a budget friendly core rider wakeboat. There were not a whole lot of options available, and the price was kept super low. Over time, people demanded more and more out of the A22. People wanted to put crazy weight in the boat because the hull can handle it and still produce an awesome, huge, well shaped, crisp clean wake at 21-24mph from 60-85ft+. THERE ARE NOT THAT MANY BOATS ON THE MARKET THAT CAN DO THIS, regardless of being budget friendly or not. Hence, the Raptor motor in '11 and the LS3 in '12. Hell yeah, those motors are expensive, so it added, what? 5-8k to the price of the boat.

Also, people wanted swivel racks. Well, you can get those on an Axis. Docking lights? Yup. Underwater lights? Yup. Z5? Yup. Fancy carpet? Yup. Tricked out trailer with 18's all over it? Yup. Huge wetsounds system from the factory? Yup. What other company is putting 485's - and now - perhaps 410's on the towers of any of their boats? It's the best you can get and you can get it with an Axis.

All that stuff adds up. It's expensive. It's crazy expensive. Other than the big motor, it's all unnecessary for producing a crazy wake. But, people want it, and want it bad. What is Axis supposed to do, say "screw you guys, go buy it all aftermarket?" Sure, Axis could have just stuck its head in the sand and argued "It's too expensive. We don't want to have to change the line. We don't want to have to increase our exposure to warranty issues. We don't want to have to train Bill and Ray to have to run an extra set of wires and drill a few more holes. We don't want to have to deal with the trouble of negotiating with another stereo supplier for high end audio. We don't want to have to continue to educate dealers as to new options. Blah, blah, blah." Instead, Axis/BU nutted up and responded to what people were asking for and made more options possible. Now, what? People are complaining that the price of the A22, WITH TONS OF OPTIONS THAT WERE NOT AVAILABLE IN '08, are in the 60's. C'mon.

For those hating on people who are ordering more expensive A22's, is the actual Axis boat junk or something? Hell no. Some of you guys act like dressing up and pimping an A22 is like putting a viper motor and a huge system in a neon. Take that neon to the track and it will explode, because it's not made to perform. The A22, on the other hand, was designed from the start to perform and produce the best wake possible for a 22ft'er. I understand that the Axis, AGAIN, does not have as nice of an interior as a malibu, mastercraft or nautique. The upper eschelon of boats have gone bananas over the past few years. They are like luxury jets or something. The interior and fit and finish of the A22 is not garbage. It's freaking nice. The seats may not be made of double analine leather baby sealion hides, and the steering wheel may not be wrapped in full quill ostrich, but I'm not paying for that.

Where does the difference in price come from between an A22 and an LSV or VLX? The A22 the vinyl is not as complex or nice as the BU vinyl. The rub rail is plastic. There are no screens. There is no power wedge. There is paddle wheel cruise (which I perfer anyway). Some of the trim is injected molded and not vinyl wrapped (like the dash). That being said, the motor options are every bit as good. The hull is every bit as good. The tower is every bit as good. The upgraded wetsounds system is actually better on the A22 than on any BU made.

People speculating about the resale of the A22 being bad, IMO, are completely wrong. I flipped my A22 quick. My local dealer can't keep new or used A22's in stock. I've helped a few people buy used A22's, and it's damn hard to find a good deal on a used one. Even in the 50's or low 60's, there's just not a lot that you can compare to a used A22 with the big motor and big stereo. Will there always be a rub in the used market place between buying, say a one year old Axis for mid 50's or a 3 year old VLX or LSV for close to the same price? Of course there will! It will just boil down to styling preferences, wake preferences and thought process regarding future operating costs. Some people are going to be concerned about what happens when one of those screens pops when the boat is out of warranty.

Back to Axis. Will there be more options coming out in '13, which will result in even higher msrp numbers for the A22? Yup. Will the A22 be even nicer next year? Yup. However, will the A22 top tier price - which has resulted from TONS of new options being introduced - continue to escalate at the same rate that it has from '08 to now? No.

And for those arguing that the price of the A22 has increased more than other boats, look at the SANTE 230. I sold my '08 for $60k. Two years later, I sold my '10 for around $83k. The stereos on both boats were wetsounds, and both had the big motor options. The price difference was attributable purely to "cost increases" the link system, new tower and z5. I'm no rain man, but I think that's a 27% price jump in TWO YEARS.

Can you option the hell out of an A22 and end up with an msrp that rivals a more basic vlx? Yes. However, you'd probably be comparing an A22 vandal with the ls3, z5 and wetsounds system to a base vlx/lsv with the small motor.

End rant. Want to see Vandal and Byerly ripping being an A22? Here you go:


Last edited by chattwake; 06-01-2012 at 6:10 AM.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       06-01-2012, 6:15 AM Reply   
Damnit, I hate it when I type fast and make all sorts of spelling and gramatical errors and then my time runs out to fix them. I'm going to to add that to the hate your boat thread.
Old    Bruizza (bruizza)      Join Date: May 2009       06-01-2012, 7:30 AM Reply   
For those of you thinking resale is going to be an issue with Axis the dealer gave us 3k less than we paid on trade in after putting 250 hours on it. The boat was put on their used boat board at the boat show and sold within 2 hours of the boat show starting based off 4 pictures. They listed the boat for 1k MORE than they sold it to us new for. You will have no problems selling a used Axis.
Old    Brett B. (Brett_B)      Join Date: Sep 2010       06-01-2012, 11:44 AM Reply   
To get back on topic of comparing options with the two boats, will you be dropping the tower often? Do you plan on having tower speakers?

The Axis tower is rock solid when it's up, but if you have any significant weight on it from tower speakers it becomes a 3-man job to drop the tower. If you always leave it up this is not a concern. But when at the dealer I wanted to see how the tower folded on an A22, and it had Wetsounds speakers on it. It took 3 decent sized guys to hold and lower the tower without nearly dropping it or letting one of the folding legs bash something. It was very clearly not something I would want to do more than once. I had no idea it would be that difficult with tower speakers until I actually tried it to see how it went.

We raise/drop our VLX tower every time we go out (which is 2-3 times a week) since it's stored in our garage. With the G3 tower it's an easy one-person job that only takes a couple minutes. Even with a pair of Exile XM9's mounted my wife can lift it no problem. If you add more speakers/weight you can also get stronger gas shocks so it's still a weightless drop. It's a really great design and a life saver if you have to fold the tower like we do.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       06-01-2012, 11:48 AM Reply   
The new tower legs on the A22 make it easier to fold the tower. I do not mean easier in terms of dealing with the weight of the speakers, but in terms of disconnecting and folding down the rear legs.

If you have Rev410's on your tower like I do, you probably will need help.

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