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Old    Cole K (SkySki)      Join Date: Feb 2010       05-18-2012, 11:13 AM Reply   
Posted on MBBoatOwners.com a few minutes ago. Didn't want to hijack the other posting started already (Check Out My Buddy's Boat). They are on MB's Facebook page with additional pictures. Triple axle trailer is awesome...
Attached Images
    
Old    Cole K (SkySki)      Join Date: Feb 2010       05-18-2012, 11:15 AM Reply   
I typed MF instead of MB. Guess it works either way.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       05-18-2012, 11:28 AM Reply   
All dirty as hell.
Old    Mark (FunkyBunch)      Join Date: Jun 2011       05-18-2012, 11:31 AM Reply   
They look good. I like the red and white one without the break in the gel lines. I would like to see this get added to the boat builder though.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       05-18-2012, 12:06 PM Reply   
I love the boats they are all gorgeous. I'm still trying to sort that tower out in my head.
Old    Ian Brown (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       05-18-2012, 12:06 PM Reply   
Old    Sippi (sippi)      Join Date: Dec 2007       05-18-2012, 12:39 PM Reply   
I agree hate....that tower doesn't look right to me....something about the three tubes. Not a fan. I like the first boat color scheme the best though. not a fan of the triple axle trailer....my brain says "why"....but then my male ego slaps my brain in the face and says..."why not!"
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       05-18-2012, 12:41 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by hatepain View Post
I love the boats they are all gorgeous. I'm still trying to sort that tower out in my head.
I agree. If I could afford and was ordering one I think I would see if I could order without tower and I would put this one on.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       05-18-2012, 12:45 PM Reply   
This tower
Attached Images
 
Old     (MrPeepers)      Join Date: Aug 2011       05-18-2012, 12:57 PM Reply   
Boats look good. Not over the top, but still modern/sharp. Tower is not the greatest, imo.
Old    Ian Brown (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       05-18-2012, 1:28 PM Reply   
Mine will be really similar to the one on the triple trailer, but with a black tower and red/black speakers (and on a standard trailer)
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       05-18-2012, 1:44 PM Reply   
front storage looks crazy deep?

Old    GD (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       05-18-2012, 11:59 PM Reply   
Its interesting to compare this new MB flagship vs the new CC flagship...

I guess the MB is $75K. Not sure what the CC will cost.

Old    doug rose (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       05-19-2012, 5:19 AM Reply   
love it. i think its sharp. we dont have mb in our area, not sure why but i would love to get in one. I just bought a new enzo 244 and love the space, i wonder how much space there is behing the windshield.
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-19-2012, 12:43 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by sippi View Post
my brain says "why"....but then my male ego slaps my brain in the face and says..."why not!"
Lol
Old    Michael Hunter (mhunter)      Join Date: Mar 2008       05-19-2012, 7:05 PM Reply   
The G23 loaded with the 550 and trailer will go in the 125k range.
Old    Preston (Bamabonners)      Join Date: Jul 2011       05-19-2012, 8:27 PM Reply   
geez, the MB kool aid drinkers are beginning to make me hate coming to wake world.

Last edited by Bamabonners; 05-19-2012 at 8:30 PM.
Old     (superfluous)      Join Date: May 2012       05-19-2012, 8:36 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamabonners View Post
geez, the MB kool aid drinkers are beginning to make me hate coming to wake world.
Where is this "kool aid drinking" in this thread?

Why would that alleged behavior make you hate coming to Wakeworld? Surely you aren't that insecure, are you?
Old    GD (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       05-19-2012, 8:39 PM Reply   
I only said it's interesting to compare.

I like the F24 while I love the G23. While I will never own a 23/24 foot boat, I still dig both boats.

Ignoring price, I think the G23 is the most impressive boat on the market now.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       05-19-2012, 11:18 PM Reply   
Cole, I saw an F24 today on the channel we were holding a local competition at. It was the same color scheme as your buddies. I did not get a chance to really look at it because I was driving and we were turning around, but from what I saw, it looks really sharp on the water.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       05-20-2012, 6:32 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamabonners View Post
geez, the MB kool aid drinkers are beginning to make me hate coming to wake world.
Dude, I know! I open a thread about MB's and there's a bunch of pictures of MBs! WTF!?!?
Old    Ian Brown (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       05-20-2012, 7:16 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamabonners View Post
geez, the MB kool aid drinkers are beginning to make me hate coming to wake world.
So, let me get this straight. There is a thread about the new MB F24. You click on it. then you are disappointed to read about the MBs. Just so you know, thread titles should generally give you an idea of the content of the actual thread. Most people read the thread title, then make a decision on whether or not the content has any interest to them. If it does not, they do not click on the thread. Maybe you can use this train of logic the next time you come to Wakeworld.
Old    Sean Griswold (seangriswold)      Join Date: Apr 2006       05-20-2012, 7:50 AM Reply   
I'm going to have to agree with Ian... I look at threads all the time with titles containing various boat manufacturers in hopes of seeing pics of someones sweet new ride. I do happen to own an MB and love it...probably will always own MB's as long as they are around but I also have friends with Malibu's, Mastercraft's etc and dig their boats as well!

One thing I never understood on this site is why there seems to be so much hate towards other peoples boats. In my opinion if you have a boat and love to wakeboard who cares what it is. I have met some cool people who ride behind an I/O with a monster tower because they can't afford an inboard but they are just thrilled to be on the water and enjoying the sport. Not trying to hate one anyone here just saying Ian is right. If you hate MB's don't bother checking out the thread. Someone was just pumped up to show of their new ride and who wouldn't be!? It is a great looking boat!
Old    Travis (fman)      Join Date: Nov 2008       05-20-2012, 8:46 AM Reply   
I was kind of disappointed to see a Nautique G23 and Tige in the MB thread....

The new MB 24 is looking great, there new progressive tower I am not sold on, but its better than the dated funky tower they had previously been putting on all there boats. Curious to see what it looks like with the a bimini on it. Does anyone have a picture of the wake or someone riding the new 24? Could not expect anything less than a stellar, monster wake from a boat that size!
Old    GD (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       05-20-2012, 9:03 AM Reply   
I appologize for polluting this thread with the G23. I chose to do it here over someone's personal thread that contained a boat that they bought. While I love both boats, it interesting to compare what $75K gets you vs $125K. That $50K difference, if true, is a huge sum of money! Even if you make $200K per year, it takes something like 5 years to save $50K after taxes.
Old     (superfluous)      Join Date: May 2012       05-20-2012, 10:18 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fman View Post
Does anyone have a picture of the wake or someone riding the new 24? Could not expect anything less than a stellar, monster wake from a boat that size!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBPQZ...layer_embedded
Old    Preston (Bamabonners)      Join Date: Jul 2011       05-20-2012, 8:25 PM Reply   
My point is that the mb fan boys have to crap in every single thread on wake world. It was neat at first, but now it seems like they are trying too hard and it just gets annoying. So yes, I did open the mb thread knowing that I would see mb boats. Funny thing is, I could probably open any other manufacturer thread and see mb boats.

Who makes the trailers for mb boats? Haven't seen that mentioned yet.
Old    9Drozd            05-20-2012, 10:29 PM Reply   
The first one with a matching dark grey tower and orange accents on it would be absolutely sex on water.
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       05-20-2012, 11:24 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakereviews View Post
I like this
Old    Scott R (ScottR)      Join Date: Aug 2011       05-21-2012, 6:47 AM Reply   
Mine has a BoatMate under it.
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-21-2012, 8:01 AM Reply   
Did they change the freeboard at all for this boat? I personally can't stand driving an MB. I'm not very tall (6'1") but my knees feel like they are in my chin when sitting in the drivers seat. I guess everyone that is buying them is either short or has never driven anything else. Nice wake though.
Old    Ian Brown (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       05-21-2012, 8:06 AM Reply   
I am pretty sure they changed it so that there is more legroom for the driver.
Old    Scott R (ScottR)      Join Date: Aug 2011       05-21-2012, 9:10 AM Reply   
I am 6' and I am totally fine in the drivers seat so they must have done something. I never drove one before my test drive with the '12. So nothing to compare it too except my previous boats (weren't MBs) but seem very normal compared to those. No complaints here.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       05-21-2012, 9:43 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamabonners View Post
My point is that the mb fan boys have to crap in every single thread on wake world. It was neat at first, but now it seems like they are trying too hard and it just gets annoying. So yes, I did open the mb thread knowing that I would see mb boats. Funny thing is, I could probably open any other manufacturer thread and see mb boats.

Who makes the trailers for mb boats? Haven't seen that mentioned yet.
Maybe it is because a lot of people on wakeworld really like what MB is doing. They are making boats that look good(this was always one of their biggest problems because their main graphics were tribal or flame), perform really good(what a good portion of wakeworld care about), have all the things you need and none that you don't, are nicer/plusher then the other boats in their price range and are as nice/plush as the boats that are priced significantly higher. They may not be the best boat out there(although they should probably be in teh conversation) but they are by far the best "value".

Plush interior=check
lots of interior space=check
lots of storage=check
good looks=check although that is up to personal preferance. I believe most people would say they look good.
stock wakeboard wake performance=check
stock surf wake performance=check
great wake/wave with additional ballast=check
good rough water ride=check
good powerplants=check with PCM and what appears to be Indmar now
Ease of functions=check
very competetive price=check
good factory support=check
Overall value=Check and probably better then any other boat brand out there.

I will admit when someone pipes up abotu MB in a thread that has nothign to do with MB then it is kind of annoying. When people say go look at them when considering a new boat I have no problem at all. Espcecially when someone says they have 45-60k and are looking for a used boat. Why not suggest a new boat that falls into that price range that they can custom order and does everything but ski good.
Old    GD (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       05-21-2012, 10:07 AM Reply   
I think most would agree that MB is near the top in bang-per-buck "VALUE".

Some are mature enough to handle the attention that MB gets from this.
Some whine and complain like babies.
Old    SS (illini88)      Join Date: Oct 2007       05-21-2012, 8:23 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottR View Post
I am 6' and I am totally fine in the drivers seat so they must have done something. I never drove one before my test drive with the '12. So nothing to compare it too except my previous boats (weren't MBs) but seem very normal compared to those. No complaints here.
6'3" and perfectly comfortable behind the wheel
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-21-2012, 8:26 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by illini88 View Post
6'3" and perfectly comfortable behind the wheel
Maybe with your legs completely stretched out or you have short legs. If you sit with your feet flat on the ground at 90 degrees, you probably can't even turn the wheel. Owner's goggles help the situation I suppose.
Old    9Drozd            05-21-2012, 10:54 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyb View Post
Maybe with your legs completely stretched out or you have short legs. If you sit with your feet flat on the ground at 90 degrees, you probably can't even turn the wheel. Owner's goggles help the situation I suppose.
Or he has a tilt steering wheel.
Old    E (22vdrive)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-22-2012, 12:02 AM Reply   
I wonder what the surf wave looks like on this monster!
Old    SS (illini88)      Join Date: Oct 2007       05-22-2012, 5:40 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyb View Post
Maybe with your legs completely stretched out or you have short legs. If you sit with your feet flat on the ground at 90 degrees, you probably can't even turn the wheel. Owner's goggles help the situation I suppose.

I don't own a MB, so we can scratch owner's goggles off the list. So, I guess I must have short legs...great, now i'm going to have a complex
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-22-2012, 5:48 AM Reply   
I've got a question about MB. I heard that the factory can compete directly with mb dealers to sell boats. Is this true? If so, doesn't the factory have an unfair advantage? I may be way off here. I just wanted to know if this was the case.

I like a lot of what mb is doing. It's a great value brand, and I'm a fan of value brands. My only knock on MB in general is the pure vert balast system. Sure it's quicker, but there's no way to piggy back additional ballast with no pumps, and there's no way to dump the weight unless you're moving. I know I've had a mechanical failure or two that has required me to be towed in over the last 15 years, and I wouldn't like to have a boat full of ballast that I couldn't dump at the time.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       05-22-2012, 6:19 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattwake View Post
I've got a question about MB. I heard that the factory can compete directly with mb dealers to sell boats. Is this true? If so, doesn't the factory have an unfair advantage? I may be way off here. I just wanted to know if this was the case.

I like a lot of what mb is doing. It's a great value brand, and I'm a fan of value brands. My only knock on MB in general is the pure vert balast system. Sure it's quicker, but there's no way to piggy back additional ballast with no pumps, and there's no way to dump the weight unless you're moving. I know I've had a mechanical failure or two that has required me to be towed in over the last 15 years, and I wouldn't like to have a boat full of ballast that I couldn't dump at the time.
Chatt, the ballast concern is a completely reasonable one. I know you don't keep your boats very long, but ask anyone with a boat that's a few years old, and they've had a ballast pump fail (be it aerator or impeller). So none of the systems are foolproof and it's totally possible that you could have a load of ballast that you can't dump even if your boat is running fine. I've been there. On my Vride the drain pump on the center tank died which meant I had to tow home with that tank full. On the MB if the boat dies and you need to get towed back to the ramp while loaded, you can at least empty the tanks on the ramp.

Is there any ballast system that allows you to piggy back with no pumps? I've never heard of it, but it would be cool. I mean, the axis plug and play system relies on diverting the stock aerators, right?

I don't know about the factory direct question, but I don't think it's the case that the factory is selling boats.
Old     (MrPeepers)      Join Date: Aug 2011       05-22-2012, 6:26 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by superfluous View Post
Nice wake! Super clean.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-22-2012, 6:33 AM Reply   
shawndoggy, I'll answer your ballast question about the brand you mentioned in the thread about my boat. I agree that pumps do fail from time to time.

Another question, do mb's offer belly or nose ballast?
Old    Mark (FunkyBunch)      Join Date: Jun 2011       05-22-2012, 6:39 AM Reply   
Chatt

There is not any nose ballast that is one of the major complaints of the more serious riders of mb. The tanks on the mb do run into the belly all the way to the front of the windshield I believe on all the boats. Most guy around here are running one 400lb fat sack in the nose and love the wake. I know a lot of the people buying these are asking for the sac in the nose to be an option we shall see if that comes out in the 2013's. There are rumors of a lot of changes for the 2013's so it will be interesting to see what happens.
Old    Scott R (ScottR)      Join Date: Aug 2011       05-22-2012, 6:44 AM Reply   
I guess I don't know why MB is getting a bad rap here. I have converted to an MB don't post much about it, yet all I see is people bashing others on these threads if the make mention of this particular brand. I know we all come here together to get other people's opinion about a topic. That is why we post. I understand people "pushing" a product on here...trust me I do since I got bashed for that at one time with another brand, however I have read almost every thread in here for the last 3 months and haven't really seen alot of people pushing MB on others. Like Brett Yates said when a thread pops up about someone wanting advice as to which boat to buy and the MB boat line fits why wouldn't people who own an MB chime in? Everyone is biased towards a brand and we get that, but diminishing MB on here just because it fits alot of budgets and needs and gets talked about more now than ever before shouldn't be a reason to bash people talking about it.

This place has very useful information and some not so useful, we all know that. Someone asks about room for the driver on this thread about an MB and this isn't an MB thread....so do I not answer? He asked a legit question and wants a legit answer I would assume. I know when I ask something I do want and answer, good bad or indifferent. So why can't we as a group just let people talk about the things in their boats that they like, dislike and can comment on? Isn't that why we are all here? We may not always agree with a comment to even agree at all, but that person is stating their opinion on that issue. It is just getting pretty tiresome to hear all the negative if anyone mentions MB. Yeah I own one, so what..... I love the axis stuff, love the new Tige's and MC's....so I could have bought any of those. I choose MB in big part to what has been mentioned by yates list. Anyway, rant is closing and I am sure I will take more crap for posting this too, but again one person's opinion and in life not everyone thinks like you do. That is exactly why we are on a social site, gathering other people's opinions about a topic. If seeing people post about a manufacture upsets you maybe you shouldn't read it. Just my 2 cents.

Oh and Chatt, really diggin the wheel man. Anyone who has his own style like that on every boat I have ever seen of his is my type of guy. Good luck riding and having fun this year. Can't wait to see what boat you get next year!! Hell maybe even ....wait for it....... an MB.........

OK OK...yeah yeah...I did it... I put this on an MB thread..lol I thought I was in Chatt's boat thread....so now you can BASH AWAY....uggg what a dumb ass!

Last edited by ScottR; 05-22-2012 at 6:51 AM. Reason: messed up....
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       05-22-2012, 6:44 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattwake View Post
shawndoggy, I'll answer your ballast question about the brand you mentioned in the thread about my boat. I agree that pumps do fail from time to time.

Another question, do mb's offer belly or nose ballast?
LOL, yeah, you don't want bamabonners going off on you!

Just like that new x30, no factory weight in the nose.

Other potential complaints about gravity ballast -- it's a bit of a blunt instrument. If you want to know that your front tank is 52% full, your belly tank is 63% full and each rear tank has 44%, it's not the system for you. Even the factory info says that the gauges aren't too accurate (and they will change between floating and nose-up while on plane). More often than not I use the mirror as the gauge to just dump a little on the heavy side while under way to even out the wake. 10-15 second process, but it takes some getting used to (lol, for my wife anyway) if you aren't used to the system.

One HUGE advantage of the system in my particular case, and why we chose MB over other similarly priced brands (sanger and axis in particular were under consideration) was the ability to switch from wakeboarding to surfing and back again as fast as we can change riders. Can any other system do that (aside from Epic, which was out of the running because the closest dealer is 20 hours away)?

My wife loves to surf, and if I want to own a boat and wakeboard, momma's got to be happy.

Last edited by shawndoggy; 05-22-2012 at 6:52 AM.
Old    Sean Griswold (seangriswold)      Join Date: Apr 2006       05-22-2012, 7:20 AM Reply   
It would be great to see a forward ballast tank in the 2013's. I have 300lbs of lead in the front of mine and it does the trick. As for the ballast gauges....One of mine has been stuck on half full for some time now. I have not really tried to fix it as it doesn't bother me that much and the tanks seem to fill and empty at the same rate. With that being said the new ballast system is one of the reasons I am most interested in a new MB. Would love to not have to mess with changing my impellers and winterizing the ballast pumps

I wonder if the tower on the F24 is going to be the new tower for all the MB's?
Old    GD (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       05-22-2012, 7:55 AM Reply   
I love the gravity fed ballast system but I also wish the nose had a ballast option -- either fill by pump or fill by scupper when underway. Currently, I have 400 lbs of lead to round out the ballast. The lead is not much of a problem for me since my boat lives at a dock and I don't trailer.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       05-22-2012, 7:56 AM Reply   
I wonder how they would run a bow ballast setup on a boat like MB that uses the purevert ballast system? Would you have another intake at the stern and then a 3 or 4 inch pipe that runs between the stringers up to a bow tank? Would it be better to just leave like it is and have the factory plumb in a pump style bow tank? Is there room under the front seats to plumb in a bow integrated sack? I think if it was me buying one of their boats as is today I would buy 300-500 pounds of lead bags and plumb in 750's or so in the rear compartments. With this setup the lead can stay up front under the bow fillin cushion to help the wakeboard wake, getting on plane, rough water ride and porpoising. Then for surfing you can just move it bac under the seats on whatever side you are surfing. Surre it means you would have to deal with lead but if you have 300 pounds that is like 6 bags. How long does it take to move 6 50 pound bags from the front to back or vice versa? 30 seconds, a minute?

Also I just don't understand the idea that it has no piggy back system, which means you can't add extra ballast. Sure it isn't as easy as piggybacking on previously installed pump ballast tanks but once you are done installing the pumps/bags in an MB it just has a hybrid setup. The best of both worlds. you have a really quick filling balanced ballast system that doesn't require pumps as well as automatic plumbed in ballast for surfing. It isn't like the factory doesn't drill holes and add pumps to brands like Axis, Malibu, Mastercraft, Nautique, Supra, moomba.
Old    Cole K (SkySki)      Join Date: Feb 2010       05-22-2012, 8:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattwake View Post
I've got a question about MB. I heard that the factory can compete directly with mb dealers to sell boats. Is this true? If so, doesn't the factory have an unfair advantage? I may be way off here. I just wanted to know if this was the case.

I like a lot of what mb is doing. It's a great value brand, and I'm a fan of value brands. My only knock on MB in general is the pure vert balast system. Sure it's quicker, but there's no way to piggy back additional ballast with no pumps, and there's no way to dump the weight unless you're moving. I know I've had a mechanical failure or two that has required me to be towed in over the last 15 years, and I wouldn't like to have a boat full of ballast that I couldn't dump at the time.


As for factory direct - that is a big NO. I asked about that back in January. First new boat so I didn't know the procedure. If you don't have a dealer near you, you can get selective and choose one anywhere. If you do have a dealerin your state, that is your dealer.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-22-2012, 8:20 AM Reply   
Well, I guess the question is whether people: (a) want to drill holes in their hulls; (b) want to pay for having holes drilled and/or all of the pumps, hoses, fittings, check valves, etc. to create an entire pump system; (c) are comfortable installing such a system, which could create a warranty issue; and/or (d) whether people are concerned that it would hurt resale value to have a non-factory system of that magnitude installed in their boat.

To me, it would make sense for MB to just add a pump for factory nose ballast, and then offer another pump for an additional rear bag ballast system on top of the pure vert system. That way, you can fill your rear ballast super quick, but also be able to pump in weight in the nose, and also add bags in the rear hatches if you wanted to.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       05-22-2012, 8:27 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattwake View Post
To me, it would make sense for MB to just add a pump for factory nose ballast, and then offer another pump for an additional rear bag ballast system on top of the pure vert system. That way, you can fill your rear ballast super quick, but also be able to pump in weight in the nose, and also add bags in the rear hatches if you wanted to.
As an MB owner I couldn't agree more. It's not necessary, but it certainly wouldn't hurt.
Old    Scott R (ScottR)      Join Date: Aug 2011       05-22-2012, 8:32 AM Reply   
Why couldn't they just do a gravity filled front ballast on the 2013 models? Have 3 tanks even if the front tank is much smaller they could have a 500-750 tank that is gravity fed just like the other two. I know my last boat had this and it was really nice!
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-22-2012, 8:37 AM Reply   
You guys crack me up...do you want it to be a value boat or a high end boat? To keep the price low, you get what you get and add your own stuff.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       05-22-2012, 8:42 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyb View Post
You guys crack me up...do you want it to be a value boat or a high end boat? To keep the price low, you get what you get and add your own stuff.
And then there's that....
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-22-2012, 8:43 AM Reply   
Ok, c'mon now. Installing about 12ft of 3/4'' hose, two pumps, and two through hull fittings while the boat is being made and is nothing but a shell is not exactly a labor intensive operation, nor are we talking about more than $300 in parts. I'm not even talking about adding more tanks or anything. I'm just suggesting adding a plug n play option so people could easily add their own bags. That's all.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-22-2012, 8:45 AM Reply   
Ok, well, I guess you'd actually have to add two more toggle switches somewhere and run 4 extra wires, so parts would probably be $400 total. Even if you add another few hundred for an extra hour or so of labor, then mark up the option, I think people would probably pay an extra $1000 to get their boat plumbed and ready for sacs. Maybe I'm wrong.
Old    Jon Hunter (hunter660)      Join Date: Aug 2007       05-22-2012, 8:51 AM Reply   
I plan on putting ~400 lbs of lead in the bow for wakeboarding. From what I can tell that is all it needs.

As for surfing, I'll be installing the pumps, bags, and switches myself, just like I did on my last boat.
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       05-22-2012, 8:51 AM Reply   
Adding some plug and play ballast can not be that much $. My 244 has two quick fill tanks (much smaller just 500lbs each) standard and you can add nearly 3,500lbs of sacs on top of that (500lbs bow sac, 650lbs side sacs, 300lbs center tank and 750lbs locker sacs). I think it is a $1,200 option.

BTW: new F24 looks great. I do think the tower looks terrible.
Old    Mark (FunkyBunch)      Join Date: Jun 2011       05-22-2012, 8:54 AM Reply   
Chatt I do not think your wrong IMHO most everyone would pay for a pnp system. However I don't think your going to see them try to add a front tank via the vert system that would mean remaking the molds and coming up with a way to fill said tank above the water line. They just changed the top mold to put the batteries up front where the tank would go.
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-22-2012, 8:59 AM Reply   
Chatt, that's at least $100k cost to the factory to implement that change in their line. First you have to do the R&D, then you have to change the wiring harnesses, add fuses, train the wiring guy, train the guy who puts in the switches, train someone to put in thru-hulls, stock the parts, etc all to sell that option for $1k. Again, value boat or luxury boat?
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       05-22-2012, 9:10 AM Reply   
Personally I think they should move the batteries back to the observers area and leave the area as a storage area. It seem to me they could make that compartment deeper easily and long without changing the molds from the build pics I saw a couple years ago. Then it woul be just throwing a custom sized bag in there. It isn't like they have no idea how to isntall pumps. Up until a couple years ago they used pump ballast.

You are right though, If they have to change the mold though it might not be worth it to the average buyer.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-22-2012, 9:13 AM Reply   
Timmy, well, if that's actually the case, then maybe the costs don't justify the changes. Just seems to me that it would be a major selling point and a minor investment. Again, I did not suggest adding a tank in the front, but simply making it possible to quickly hook up a nose sac by having a pump and hose ready for a bag in the front that could either go under the seats or on top of them (like a bow triangle).
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-22-2012, 9:28 AM Reply   
Customers always think in small terms and how much that option would/should cost whereas the manufacturer has to look at the big picture and what the real cost/value/profit is. They also have to warranty that item too.
Old    E (22vdrive)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-22-2012, 9:29 AM Reply   
If MB put a plug and play ballast sytem on top of the pure-vert system it would put them on a whole different level. I have an mb and would love to have both ballast systems on the boat. Hopefully mb will listen to their customers wants. If they don't do it someone will be it centurion or epic.
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       05-22-2012, 9:35 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyb View Post
Chatt, that's at least $100k cost to the factory to implement that change in their line. First you have to do the R&D, then you have to change the wiring harnesses, add fuses, train the wiring guy, train the guy who puts in the switches, train someone to put in thru-hulls, stock the parts, etc all to sell that option for $1k. Again, value boat or luxury boat?
It would obviously be an tpion so that in and of itself would pay for all this. IMO bow ballast is a must.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       05-22-2012, 9:36 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 22vdrive View Post
If MB put a plug and play ballast sytem on top of the pure-vert system it would put them on a whole different level. I have an mb and would love to have both ballast systems on the boat. Hopefully mb will listen to their customers wants. If they don't do it someone will be it centurion or epic.
That would be amazing but Timmy is probably right. I would guess having the extra ballast is probably important to less tehn 25% of their customer base. Most people will be completely fine with the stock ballast. The extra ballast would really only be appealing to true riders which doesn't make up much of the potential boat buying pool.
Old    GD (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       05-22-2012, 9:52 AM Reply   
"true riders" -- I would avoid saying such things.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       05-22-2012, 9:57 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddad View Post
"true riders" -- I would avoid saying such things.
Why is that? I am just referring to people that actually care about the wake beyond stock ballast. That probably equates to less then 25% of the potential buyers and maybe even less.
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-22-2012, 10:02 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddad View Post
"true riders" -- I would avoid saying such things.
I wouldn't. The F23 that I ride behind occasionally, rarely gets the tanks filled because their whole family is new to the sport and even with the 409, the boat takes awhile to get on plane. Not everyone who buys a wakeboard boat is buying it for the wake or the ballast. You have a specialized audience here on this site which makes it seem like "everyone" would like that option.
Old    B Beasley (ProvoMB52)      Join Date: Nov 2011       05-22-2012, 5:59 PM Reply   
For those who are worried about having to be towed in with tank full on a pure vert system, like MB's, you need to understand, all you need to do is open the valves (which you can do manually), and as soon as you start heading in, under your own power or being towed in by another boat, the water simply pours out the back of the hull through the ballast inlet/ejection ports. Not a big deal!
Old     (superfluous)      Join Date: May 2012       05-22-2012, 8:03 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProvoMB52 View Post
For those who are worried about having to be towed in with tank full on a pure vert system, like MB's, you need to understand, all you need to do is open the valves (which you can do manually), and as soon as you start heading in, under your own power or being towed in by another boat, the water simply pours out the back of the hull through the ballast inlet/ejection ports. Not a big deal!
Not true.

At typical towing speeds of around 5 mph the tanks do not gravity drain.
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-22-2012, 8:32 PM Reply   
Doesn't the boat have to be on plane to get the tanks draining?
Old    D.F.T.R. Josh (downfortheride)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-22-2012, 8:42 PM Reply   
My tanks drained (F21) during wakeless speed on Sunday... I usually haul ass and drain them out but we had some little ones getting situated for a bit and tanks drained to 1/4. I was surprised and can see them emptying during a tow in...
Old     (superfluous)      Join Date: May 2012       05-22-2012, 10:04 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by downfortheride View Post
My tanks drained (F21) during wakeless speed on Sunday... I usually haul ass and drain them out but we had some little ones getting situated for a bit and tanks drained to 1/4. I was surprised and can see them emptying during a tow in...
Our typical launch requires 10+ minutes of no wake/5 mph to get to fast water.

Sometimes we forget to close the valves and the ballast fills when we launch.

The tanks do not drain while we get to the fast water.

As long as you have bow rise the tanks will drain (8+ mph). I can't imagine anyone towing at those speeds.
Old     (superfluous)      Join Date: May 2012       05-22-2012, 10:05 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyb View Post
Doesn't the boat have to be on plane to get the tanks draining?
No. They will drain while plowing at surf speeds.
Old    Vince Dinatale (supratweaked)      Join Date: Aug 2005       05-22-2012, 11:40 PM Reply   
My .02 cents: First let me say that I own an F-21 so my experience is mostly with this model. Myself and my daughters had been behind MB's in the past and did not care for the wakes. We have all loved the F-21 since riding behind one at a local comp. a few years ago. When I decided that it was time to replace boats, MB was the final choice. Have never regretted this choice!

The way I weight my boat, I am not sure if adding factory ballast to the front would keep me from having to add another bag or not. I am running 6-7 hundred pounds of nose weight plus 8 hundred plus of added weight in the boat and I decide where it goes. My wake is dialed. Filling bags is part of wakeboarding. The large PP systems take time to fill, so I do not see them a a large time saver. They are nice that they are all out of sight.

To me the F-21 is a core wakeboarders boat and MB at its core is about wakeboarding. They are in my opinion one the the two brands out there that provide a cost effective boat with a World class wake. I happen to think that MB does it with better quality and a better pricing structure. They are expanding the line (F24) to fill a want or need in the market. All companies do this to prosper. Cannot fault MB for this.

I like that I do not have all the extra electronics to deal with. All I need are analog gauges, toggle switches and a speed control system. The rest is about enjoying time with friends and what is going on behind the boat.

I ride behind different brands of boats and they all have good wakes. Some you like better than others due to personnal preference. My preference is get the best wake I can at a good value. I will then spend my savings on 2-3K of gas a month to get the girls behind the boat 5 plus times a week during the Summer months. With my MB, I did not compromise the wake to save money. I got savings and a great wake.

JMO - Without drinking koolaid or having MB googles on.

Vince

Just keep doing what you are doing MB.
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       05-23-2012, 6:32 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 22vdrive View Post
If MB put a plug and play ballast sytem on top of the pure-vert system it would put them on a whole different level. I have an mb and would love to have both ballast systems on the boat. Hopefully mb will listen to their customers wants. If they don't do it someone will be it centurion or epic.
I have a plug n play system going in on my B52 23 as I type, I pretty much only surf and switching from reg to goof is not much fun and it's a given that if someone else is doing it they will spill a ton of water, no worries now and I can dump half of the other side as we pull them up. MB has more orders for boats than they can build at the moment and there is a huge liability with adding PnP, once things calm down and moving forward to 2013 models I BELIEVE (not 100% sure) than PnP will be an option but the boat owner will have to purchase and install (with their dealer) the bags and take responsibility for weighting it over stock ballast.
Old    NAW (ripr)      Join Date: Mar 2002       05-23-2012, 6:52 AM Reply   
I'm sorry, I just don't like the look of this boat. But, to each his own.

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