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Old    Josh Wood (07vlx)      Join Date: Apr 2012       05-11-2012, 7:11 AM Reply   
Looking for some help trouble shooting why I have louder sound coming from headunit vs the 420. I have checked all of the settings on the iphone to make sure the volume is all the way up and eq is set to flat. I have even tried a couple diifrent ipods and still the same. I have left the settings on the 420 flat as well. I am out of ideas other than there is a problem with the 420. Let me know if you guys have any ideas.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       05-11-2012, 8:31 AM Reply   
you mean that the aux input on the ws420 is quieter than the headunit which is also playing through the ws420? I believe that the ws420's non-adustable-undergained-aux-input is a "feature" (i.e. design flaw).

Take a look at something like this:



It's a line driver that brings up the weak signal voltage coming out of the ipod.
Old    L W (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       05-11-2012, 8:58 AM Reply   
I found the same thing. It was always way louder through the head unit then through the "headphone jack input".
Old    Josh Wood (07vlx)      Join Date: Apr 2012       05-11-2012, 9:33 AM Reply   
Shawndoggy that is correct and what is the name of the line driver you are recommending. So the problem is the headunit puts out more voltage than the iphone.
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       05-11-2012, 9:35 AM Reply   
It's because the ipod had such a low voltage output especially through the headphones jack. The 420 has no circuitry like your headunit does to boost that output signal.It's always best to run your ipod through the pin jack on the bottom of your ipod and run that to your head unit for optimal sound. However again even doing that and popping in a cd you will still be able to tell a difference. Cd is better
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       05-11-2012, 9:38 AM Reply   
http://www.amazon.com/PIE-Adjustable.../dp/B001AB7HXG
Old    Murphy Smith (murphy_smith)      Join Date: Dec 2005       05-11-2012, 9:38 AM Reply   
Shawn - would it make any improvement to add one these inbetween my IS75 cable and my AudioControl Three.2
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       05-11-2012, 9:42 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphy_smith View Post
Shawn - would it make any improvement to add one these inbetween my IS75 cable and my AudioControl Three.2
doesn't the three.2 have adjustable gain pots for the aux input? If it does, crank those up first. If it doesn't or if you've already done that, then yes, this sort of line driver between the is75 and the eq should help.
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       05-11-2012, 10:24 AM Reply   
Ok not to start a war because I do have a WS420 but if you need an adjustable line driver can you return the 420 and get the ZLD.

http://exileaudio.com/store/index.ph...reamp-kit.html
Old    Murphy Smith (murphy_smith)      Join Date: Dec 2005       05-11-2012, 11:03 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
doesn't the three.2 have adjustable gain pots for the aux input? If it does, crank those up first. If it doesn't or if you've already done that, then yes, this sort of line driver between the is75 and the eq should help.
only has gains adjustment on the signal out to the amps.

Not sure if I really would need this since my audiocontrol is only turned up halfway and my gains on my amps are matched toward the floor
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       05-11-2012, 11:12 AM Reply   
Murphy, it would be to match the input voltage between the ipod and the headunit.
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       05-11-2012, 11:12 AM Reply   
Just to add after a bit of research on the ZLD the ZLD has adjustable input gain for the main source AND Aux source. and they are independent from each other. meaning you can dial you ipod gains up as needed and the main source could remain low. Hope this helps you out good luck.
Old    Murphy Smith (murphy_smith)      Join Date: Dec 2005       05-11-2012, 12:20 PM Reply   
So what do you do you...crank the gains on it to the max....it put's out about 3.4 volts max
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       05-11-2012, 12:32 PM Reply   
Probably not max then... Isn't your black box only 2v?
Old    Tim White (wetsounds1)      Join Date: Jan 2006       05-11-2012, 12:44 PM Reply   
let me clarify some points here. The 420 IS a line driver and does boost the voltage.

the WS-420 HAD adjustable gains on the top for the line drivers for aux and main. But we had too many customers that could not tune the system and had install isssues and problems. As you have to tune the main off the head unit and then the aux off an ipod. and make sure that that it is not overgained at the amps. the latest version of the 420 has non adjustable outputs with a 5 volt line driver. it works great and we have had less install issues once we went to the route without adjustments.

There are a hundreds of half din eq's on the market that offer a single zone eq with front to rear fade or "cabin to tower" fade. These basic car audio eq's have been around for years. The 420 is two of these in one chassis. So it is a bit more time consuming on the set up as you can tune the towers on their own and the in boats on their own. Add to the mix, main adjustments, aux adjustments. And you can see where the issues come into play. The original one had a really hot line driver as well.

So we had to simplfy the unit to make it easier to install. Which it is.

So josh, best thing to do when using an ipod. Make sure the ipod volume is max or close to it when using head phone jack. Or get a bottom jack to 3.5 and go from there. This is a much better source. Then tune the system this route. Once you switch back to the head unit, you will then be able to find the max volume on the head unit that is safe so the volume level is the same from head unit to ipod. So re tune your system with the ipod into the 420 and the 420 volume up and then set the gains on the amps. right now it was probably tuned from the head unit that has higher voltage going into the 420 than an ipod does.

Hope that makes sense.

Feel free to call our tech support and speak with Gyver or Simon, they will be happy to help. Simon was an installer at one of our top dealers and installeds hundreds of WS-420 so he can help for sure.

Tim
Wet Sounds

Last edited by wetsounds1; 05-11-2012 at 12:48 PM.
Old    Murphy Smith (murphy_smith)      Join Date: Dec 2005       05-11-2012, 12:46 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Probably not max then... Isn't your black box only 2v?
I am bypassing the black box....it goes IS 75 to AC 3.2 to Amps.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       05-11-2012, 12:58 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphy_smith View Post
I am bypassing the black box....it goes IS 75 to AC 3.2 to Amps.
LOL, then what's the problem? This will only help equalize between two inputs. The OP complained that his ipod is way quieter than his headunit.

Last edited by shawndoggy; 05-11-2012 at 1:01 PM.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       05-11-2012, 1:04 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wetsounds1 View Post
let me clarify some points here. The 420 IS a line driver and does boost the voltage.

the WS-420 HAD adjustable gains on the top for the line drivers for aux and main. But we had too many customers that could not tune the system and had install isssues and problems. As you have to tune the main off the head unit and then the aux off an ipod. and make sure that that it is not overgained at the amps. the latest version of the 420 has non adjustable outputs with a 5 volt line driver. it works great and we have had less install issues once we went to the route without adjustments.

There are a hundreds of half din eq's on the market that offer a single zone eq with front to rear fade or "cabin to tower" fade. These basic car audio eq's have been around for years. The 420 is two of these in one chassis. So it is a bit more time consuming on the set up as you can tune the towers on their own and the in boats on their own. Add to the mix, main adjustments, aux adjustments. And you can see where the issues come into play. The original one had a really hot line driver as well.

So we had to simplfy the unit to make it easier to install. Which it is.

So josh, best thing to do when using an ipod. Make sure the ipod volume is max or close to it when using head phone jack. Or get a bottom jack to 3.5 and go from there. This is a much better source. Then tune the system this route. Once you switch back to the head unit, you will then be able to find the max volume on the head unit that is safe so the volume level is the same from head unit to ipod. So re tune your system with the ipod into the 420 and the 420 volume up and then set the gains on the amps. right now it was probably tuned from the head unit that has higher voltage going into the 420 than an ipod does.

Hope that makes sense.

Feel free to call our tech support and speak with Gyver or Simon, they will be happy to help. Simon was an installer at one of our top dealers and installeds hundreds of WS-420 so he can help for sure.

Tim
Wet Sounds
Tim doesn't that method cut the nads off of an expensive headunit's high voltage preouts to tune to the ipod's much wimpier pre-out voltage?
Old    Murphy Smith (murphy_smith)      Join Date: Dec 2005       05-11-2012, 1:05 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
LOL, then what's the problem? This will only help equalize between two inputs. The OP complained that his ipod is way quieter than his headunit.
thanks - got it
Old    Tim White (wetsounds1)      Join Date: Jan 2006       05-11-2012, 1:11 PM Reply   
shawn,

the majority are running a marine unit without the high voltage pre outs. so in this case it would be fine. If you are running a high voltage deck, you could ipod into the deck and just switch the source at the deck. I am using a clarion (which is not the highest voltage deck) but we then go ipod into an isimple bottom dock connector with charging and into the aux of the clarion. so you have full control of the ipod and not have to use the clarion control.

Tim
Wet Sounds
Old    Josh Wood (07vlx)      Join Date: Apr 2012       05-11-2012, 1:25 PM Reply   
The head unit is a CDA-9886M which has 4V preamp out and the the jack that I use at the headunit plugs into the bottom of the iphone. I started at the headunit and went down the line and used a scope at the headunit, 420 and amps to make sure of no distortion. I understand the jack at the bottom of the phone is digital vs an analog signal from the head phone jack so i understand a little lost in sound but it is cut in half at the 420 with volume all the way up. What i dont understand is that the 420 is a 5V out so shouldnt it boost the signal down the line?
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       05-11-2012, 1:29 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 07vlx View Post
The head unit is a CDA-9886M which has 4V preamp out and the the jack that I use at the headunit plugs into the bottom of the iphone. I started at the headunit and went down the line and used a scope at the headunit, 420 and amps to make sure of no distortion. I understand the jack at the bottom of the phone is digital vs an analog signal from the head phone jack so i understand a little lost in sound but it is cut in half at the 420 with volume all the way up. What i dont understand is that the 420 is a 5V out so shouldnt it boost the signal down the line?
yes, but you would need to be able to adjust the gain of that input channel to accommodate the ipod's lower preout voltage. You need to make the inputs (alpine deck at 4v and ipod at 1v) equal going into the ws420 for the signal going out of the ws420 to be equal. You could do that by:

adjusting the gain of the input on the eq (if the eq had a gain adjustment, but it doesn't),

turning your deck down to 1/4 of it's potential output as tim suggests, or

increasing the voltage of the ipod into the ws420, which is what I suggested above.

Last edited by shawndoggy; 05-11-2012 at 1:32 PM.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       05-11-2012, 1:34 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wetsounds1 View Post
shawn,

the majority are running a marine unit without the high voltage pre outs. so in this case it would be fine. If you are running a high voltage deck, you could ipod into the deck and just switch the source at the deck. I am using a clarion (which is not the highest voltage deck) but we then go ipod into an isimple bottom dock connector with charging and into the aux of the clarion. so you have full control of the ipod and not have to use the clarion control.

Tim
Wet Sounds
are you against one of the pre-drivers like I linked above? I know your solution is available, but what that solution is really saying is don't use the WS420's aux input if you want to get the most out of your deck's pre-out voltage. Honestly, this is one of the reasons I abandoned the ws420.
Old    Josh Wood (07vlx)      Join Date: Apr 2012       05-11-2012, 2:02 PM Reply   
i have 2 options play everything through the headunit or buy a line driver to increase the voltage from iphone to 420. Is it possible to play through the headunit and still use the 420 aux out to link to another boat or would having the switch on main instead of aux on the 420 not allow a signal to go out to another boat?
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       05-11-2012, 2:08 PM Reply   
I just had a stereo shop instal a 420, went to pick it up and everything was great, got out on the water and turned the engine on and get a bad buzzing sound now, only does it when the engine is running, RCA cables ?
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       05-11-2012, 10:09 PM Reply   
Tim,

I know that the WS420 has the line driver built in, but the tech guys explained it to me that you get a much more regulated source and a bit more SQ going through the deck vs the WS420. Maybe I miss understood them as to why, but I swear they said it had to do with the newer "iPod" head units having some extra features for the signal. Again maybe I misunderstood why to was better to go through the head unit, but they def said that was the way to go vs the aux input.
Old    D (tx_foilhead)      Join Date: Apr 2009       05-12-2012, 8:30 AM Reply   
Some, but not all headunits have the ability to use the internal DAC rather than the the one on the iPod when using the bottom plug on the iPod. That should give you better sounding output from the iPod.

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