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Old    Chris (Frozenwhite)      Join Date: Jun 2011       04-21-2012, 1:17 PM Reply   
Took up wakeboarding last year. Had a couple of lessons and was out on my own around 6 times last year. Managed to get out today for the first time this year. I am getting a tower installed in the next month or so but looking for any advice at all on improving the wake on the boat. I'm not sure if my rope is too long or too short and when I did attempt some jumps I know I wasn't standing up before I got to the wake to achieve some pop. Any pointers at all would be great. All constructive criticism accepted my fiancée was driving the boat and for only being her third time she done really well. Had to have her change the speed a few times. I look forward to any comments

Old    Mark Pfister (mpfiste2)      Join Date: Jun 2009       04-21-2012, 2:15 PM Reply   
That is beautiful water you are on. Where is that? I'm assuming your boat is a smaller I/O. It looks like you may need to speed up a bit. 20-22 mph. Also, move your trim up to about 1/2 way and that may clean some of the wash up. More people in the boat will help as well. I'm jealous of your riding spot!
Old    Chris (Frozenwhite)      Join Date: Jun 2011       04-21-2012, 2:38 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpfiste2 View Post
That is beautiful water you are on. Where is that? I'm assuming your boat is a smaller I/O. It looks like you may need to speed up a bit. 20-22 mph. Also, move your trim up to about 1/2 way and that may clean some of the wash up. More people in the boat will help as well. I'm jealous of your riding spot!
Boat is a bayliner discovery 192. Like I said I'm new to this so haven't done anything at all to enhance the wake. The trim was all the way down when the video was shot. I'm riding on Loch Lomond in Scotland. It really is amazing scenery. Only downside is its pretty cold
Old    Paulh (paulharenberg)      Join Date: Jul 2007       04-21-2012, 2:45 PM Reply   
What engine do you have in that boat. What line length are you riding at? I also rode behind my Dad's boat as a 10' shorter than behind a inboard.

As mentioned before weight in the front and trim up the outdrive will help with white wash and wake overall.

Depending on engine, repropping with a high 5 and/or ading perfect pass will help with speed control. In my Dad's IO, I used to find the wake would get the best between 22 and 24 mph.

As for wakeboarding, set realistic goals and have fun. Learn to ride all positions (toeside, heelside, both goofy and regular). The wake behind that boat (as is right) will not limit you in the least in learning basics and building a good foundation. Learn surface tricks, line tentions, ollie tricks, ect.
Old    KEVIN (kko13)      Join Date: Jul 2006       04-21-2012, 3:02 PM Reply   
First thing and I understand she is learning ( I went through it with my wife) Your girl is going to have to get more consistent with the speed. There are a few times it gets close and with a little trim it would be good. But she drops speed to much and the wake goes to crap and washes out. So work on keeping the speed consistent (19-22mph) and go from there. If I were to have to say the rope might be a little long esp. for when your first learing but its hard to say until you get the wake dialed in. So work on getting it good and consistent and then work on making it bigger as you get better. I would look into some sort of speed control if you could. Keeping the boat at a good consistent speed is crucial and appears to be your biggest issue right now IMPO. Keep working at it you will get it.
Old    Chris (Frozenwhite)      Join Date: Jun 2011       04-21-2012, 3:02 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulharenberg View Post
What engine do you have in that boat. What line length are you riding at? I also rode behind my Dad's boat as a 10' shorter than behind a inboard.

As mentioned before weight in the front and trim up the outdrive will help with white wash and wake overall.

Depending on engine, repropping with a high 5 and/or ading perfect pass will help with speed control. In my Dad's IO, I used to find the wake would get the best between 22 and 24 mph.

As for wakeboarding, set realistic goals and have fun. Learn to ride all positions (toeside, heelside, both goofy and regular). The wake behind that boat (as is right) will not limit you in the least in learning basics and building a good foundation. Learn surface tricks, line tentions, ollie tricks, ect.
Thanks dude. I have been desperate to get back out. Been watching videos on here all winter. The engine is a 3.0L MerCruiser® Alpha I (135 HP) the boat is the same as this one http://www.boatshop24.co.uk/MzE0Nzgz...overy_192.html
Excuse my ignorance but what does IO mean? My dad has only had the boat a year and this is his first so it's all alien to me. My line is 55' in the video.
Old    Paulh (paulharenberg)      Join Date: Jul 2007       04-21-2012, 3:24 PM Reply   
I/O - Inboard/outboard (or sterndrive) - named because the engine is inside the boat and the outdrive is outside the boat as opposed to outboard or inboard.

the expensive brand name wakeboard boats are considered inboards (engine completely within boat with only the shaft for the propeller coming out, direct drive or v drive)

My dad's boat has the 3.0. Perfect pass isn't available for that motor, at least to my knowledge. The deep hull doesn't help the white wash. And with the 3.0 you do not want to load the boat up with too much excessive weight, its only a 135 hp 4 banger.

Speed control on an IO is extremely hard esp. at wakeboard speeds, so you might want to have your driver do a little practice without having to worry about you behind there. I find controlling the throwing with my index and thumb, with my arm on an arm rest, doing minor adjustments is easier and allows more control than having your entire hand on it and controlling speed with your arm. Hopefully that made sense.

From the video the rope looks long but I don't think I would go less than 55'. So I think that is good.
Old    Chris (Frozenwhite)      Join Date: Jun 2011       04-21-2012, 3:28 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulharenberg View Post
I/O - Inboard/outboard (or sterndrive) - named because the engine is inside the boat and the outdrive is outside the boat as opposed to outboard or inboard.

the expensive brand name wakeboard boats are considered inboards (engine completely within boat with only the shaft for the propeller coming out, direct drive or v drive)

My dad's boat has the 3.0. Perfect pass isn't available for that motor, at least to my knowledge. The deep hull doesn't help the white wash. And with the 3.0 you do not want to load the boat up with too much excessive weight, its only a 135 hp 4 banger.

Speed control on an IO is extremely hard esp. at wakeboard speeds, so you might want to have your driver do a little practice without having to worry about you behind there. I find controlling the throwing with my index and thumb, with my arm on an arm rest, doing minor adjustments is easier and allows more control than having your entire hand on it and controlling speed with your arm. Hopefully that made sense.

From the video the rope looks long but I don't think I would go less than 55'. So I think that is good.
Thanks for the advice
Old    Ben Ax (hawkeye7708)      Join Date: Feb 2007       04-21-2012, 8:50 PM Reply   
Hey Chris,

Jumped around the video a few times and here's what I've noticed. Definitely have been some informative posts above too.

1) Boat speed- as you mentioned, it's was a little inconsistent. Just comes with wheel time. As far as speed goes, on a boat like that you want to start at 21mph and feel it out from there. We rode behind a 20-foot Bayliner back in the day, and we rode at roughly 23 miles an hour. Check into the speed and it'll help out with a lot of things: edging, control, ollies, etc.
2)Trim: We always ran about a 1/4 trim to clean our wake up. That'll depend on your weighting, people in the boat, etc.
3) Weight: Try throwing a little weight in the boat. Few hundred pounds makes a BIG difference.
4) Rope length: Behind an I/O boat with a setup like you have, you're going to need to shorten your rope up. Clearing a wake that wide would definitely be a feat! haha

Keep it up man!
Old    Jamie (Wiatowski)      Join Date: Aug 2011       04-21-2012, 8:54 PM Reply   
Couple questions... having boarded last year behind an i/o

Does the boat have a hydro foil on it?( it will be mounted on the stern drive right above the prop)

And I guess the rest really isn't a question much more than a statement. 1/2 way up trim is asking for trouble... 1/4 at most. I ran like an 1/8 on my bayliner.
I had a hydrofoil on mine and liked it, helped get on plane faster and found it dug in a little better when trimming up and didn't have prop blowout .
put some weight in the front of an i/o this will help balance the boat better and give your wake a cleaner and better shape.
this is from last year. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxBVXZvpkaY
as for the speed issue your girl will just have to get good at fiddling with the throttle, my wife did awesome last year. My suggestion take your car gps on the boat, and you'll get a more accurate speed. Driving can be a tough job especially when you want to watch so get her a good mirror.
Perfect pass is the biggest rip off in the world if you have a good driver it's a waste of money. (will take the heat for that statement bu it true)
hope this helps a bit.
Old    Ben Ax (hawkeye7708)      Join Date: Feb 2007       04-22-2012, 3:59 AM Reply   
Jamie,

Not going to be the one who brings the heat for the PP, however, I have noticed that unless you own the boat, quite often people aren't experienced behind the wheel. Much less towing somebody. I'm not advocating that people run out and buy PP, however, for those who aren't used to driving a boarder, it can be a major asset. There's a reason they call it the "Marriage Saver" haha

Last edited by hawkeye7708; 04-22-2012 at 4:00 AM. Reason: clarification
Old    Chris (Frozenwhite)      Join Date: Jun 2011       04-22-2012, 4:29 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiatowski View Post
Couple questions... having boarded last year behind an i/o

Does the boat have a hydro foil on it?( it will be mounted on the stern drive right above the prop)

And I guess the rest really isn't a question much more than a statement. 1/2 way up trim is asking for trouble... 1/4 at most. I ran like an 1/8 on my bayliner.
I had a hydrofoil on mine and liked it, helped get on plane faster and found it dug in a little better when trimming up and didn't have prop blowout .
put some weight in the front of an i/o this will help balance the boat better and give your wake a cleaner and better shape.
this is from last year. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxBVXZvpkaY
as for the speed issue your girl will just have to get good at fiddling with the throttle, my wife did awesome last year. My suggestion take your car gps on the boat, and you'll get a more accurate speed. Driving can be a tough job especially when you want to watch so get her a good mirror.
Perfect pass is the biggest rip off in the world if you have a good driver it's a waste of money. (will take the heat for that statement bu it true)
hope this helps a bit.
Thanks for all the advice. Jamie I don't think it does have a hydrofoil. I have a few apps on my phone which give gps speed so may try that out. I've ordered a GoPro camera which should arrive next week. Until I get better my plan is to mount it on the back of the boat so I can use it to learn what I'm doing wrong and progress further
Old    Chris (Frozenwhite)      Join Date: Jun 2011       04-22-2012, 4:35 AM Reply   
I also felt I couldn't get out very wide toeside. I didn't have this problem on my lesson when using a pole. Will it make a difference once I get the tower? I feel like towing straight from the back of the boat is restricting my movement a bit?
Old    Chris (Frozenwhite)      Join Date: Jun 2011       04-22-2012, 5:33 AM Reply   
This was a lesson las year with a much cleaner wake

Old    Chris (Frozenwhite)      Join Date: Jun 2011       04-22-2012, 8:28 AM Reply   
A shorter edit with the less mundane stuff removed

Old    Jamie (Wiatowski)      Join Date: Aug 2011       04-22-2012, 10:10 AM Reply   
A tower is totally worth it. the way you're riding now I would shorten the line byanother 10'
the wake you had last year was nice and clean go back to doing whatever it was last year and agree with the speed needing to be increased. what are you riding at right now?
Old    Chris (Frozenwhite)      Join Date: Jun 2011       04-22-2012, 12:05 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiatowski View Post
A tower is totally worth it. the way you're riding now I would shorten the line byanother 10'
the wake you had last year was nice and clean go back to doing whatever it was last year and agree with the speed needing to be increased. what are you riding at right now?
The Video from last year was using the local wakeboard schools boat. I felt much better using that which I think is down to the tower. And obviously the cleaner wake. Unfortunately she isn't sure what speed she was doing yesterday

But I have downloaded a gps speedometer for my iPhone which I will have her use next time

I think once I have the tower the rope will naturally be shorter as its attached further up the rope
Old    Lou Ferraro (ferral)      Join Date: Sep 2007       04-22-2012, 3:19 PM Reply   
Speed might be a factor on your toe side. If you are going too slow, you will dig in too much while you try to edge out. I'd be pretty surprised if lack of tower is the problem.

I also have an I/O. Play with the trim, but halfway up is definitely too much. The right answer will depend on your boat and the weight in it. For me it's 1/8 or less. If you go too high, the bow will start to bounce. A little weight up front will help, but with the small engine, you won't be able to add a lot of weight. you'll just have to play with it to find whats best for your setup.

Driving a consistent speed is extremely important as others have set. Just takes a bunch of practice. Good luck and welcome to the sport.
Old    Jamie (Wiatowski)      Join Date: Aug 2011       04-22-2012, 5:54 PM Reply   
the right prop will make up for the lack of HP. Look up prop doc or prop calculator and pick a 4 blade for water sports. I had an19.5' 89 bayliner with a 120 hp i/o last year. had a 4 blade 13 pitch prop and could have 8 people with extra weight in the front, would pull no problem. your max speed goes down but your pulling power goes up. think of your prop as a gear on your car or bike if your pulling a bigger load you need to lower the gear to get better use of hp.
if you have a hydrofoil on the out drive it will eliminate any porpoising (boat bobbing up and down) sting rays are good.
Old    Chris (Frozenwhite)      Join Date: Jun 2011       04-23-2012, 11:46 AM Reply   
Thanks for all the advice guys. I just found out my fiancee has booked an all day intensive coaching session with Matt Crowhurst who is recognised as the best coach in the UK for this saturday. It is an early birthday present. Can't wait
Old    Jamie (Wiatowski)      Join Date: Aug 2011       04-23-2012, 12:18 PM Reply   
nice
Old    Chris (Frozenwhite)      Join Date: Jun 2011       04-24-2012, 3:29 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiatowski View Post
nice
Will be riding behind a 2012 Super Air nauitique 210. At least I won't have to worry about the wake
Old    Joe Jones (BamaLurker)      Join Date: Dec 2011       04-25-2012, 12:16 PM Reply   
Crowhurst will set you straight!
Old    Chris (Frozenwhite)      Join Date: Jun 2011       04-26-2012, 2:31 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaLurker View Post
Crowhurst will set you straight!
Hope so. Really looking forward to it
Old    Jamie (Wiatowski)      Join Date: Aug 2011       04-28-2012, 10:53 AM Reply   
How did your riding today go?
Old    Chris (Frozenwhite)      Join Date: Jun 2011       04-28-2012, 4:39 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiatowski View Post
How did your riding today go?
Much much better. Thanks for asking. Matt is a great coach. I managed to get a video of my last set which I will upload tomorrow
Old    Jamie (Wiatowski)      Join Date: Aug 2011       04-28-2012, 7:10 PM Reply   
looking forward to seeing it.
Old    Chris (Frozenwhite)      Join Date: Jun 2011       04-29-2012, 2:38 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiatowski View Post
looking forward to seeing it.
Here you go mate. My first time on a wakeboard was less than a year ago. This is roughly my 9th time ever boarding. I am really happy with my progress and can't wait to work on everything Matt taught me yesterday



Let me know what you think
Old    Chris (Frozenwhite)      Join Date: Jun 2011       04-29-2012, 3:08 AM Reply   
P.S it's worth watching to the end to see my digger. Caught my edge while riding switch
Old    Chris (Frozenwhite)      Join Date: Jun 2011       04-29-2012, 3:18 AM Reply   
Jamie I appear to have messed up my edit. I has the same video clip in it twice. I will sort it out and re post
Old    Jamie (Wiatowski)      Join Date: Aug 2011       04-29-2012, 5:36 AM Reply   
Did you ever sign up for learn to wake? You can watch some of their videos on YouTube.
My thoughts are this;
Your toe side edging needs to be stronger... watch the LTW toe side edging drill, it helped me a lot.
It my be me but you need to gain more confidence/comfort when boarding. Sounds weird but we can see you thinking when you're riding.
Practice, practice,practice!
It's not just learning the drills but doing them that help with your boarding. I can sometimes spend an entire set just doing drills with out ever going W2W. Doing them and doing them to death WILL make your boarding progress faster. It's frustrating to go out and ride and say "How come I can't jump W2W?" but if you haven't done the preparation to do it, the answer should be simple. That would be like taking the eggs out of the fridge and saying why isn't the omelet made yet.
You've got a good start... just need to polish up what you're doing and the rest will come when the foundation is there. Watch your video and be your biggest critic... but don't just look at what needs improving but look at what your doing right too.

Keep it up!
Old    Chris (Frozenwhite)      Join Date: Jun 2011       05-01-2012, 12:08 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiatowski View Post
Did you ever sign up for learn to wake? You can watch some of their videos on YouTube.
My thoughts are this;
Your toe side edging needs to be stronger... watch the LTW toe side edging drill, it helped me a lot.
It my be me but you need to gain more confidence/comfort when boarding. Sounds weird but we can see you thinking when you're riding.
Practice, practice,practice!
It's not just learning the drills but doing them that help with your boarding. I can sometimes spend an entire set just doing drills with out ever going W2W. Doing them and doing them to death WILL make your boarding progress faster. It's frustrating to go out and ride and say "How come I can't jump W2W?" but if you haven't done the preparation to do it, the answer should be simple. That would be like taking the eggs out of the fridge and saying why isn't the omelet made yet.
You've got a good start... just need to polish up what you're doing and the rest will come when the foundation is there. Watch your video and be your biggest critic... but don't just look at what needs improving but look at what your doing right too.

Keep it up!

Thanks. That all makes sense. I haven't joined learn to wake yet but I do intend to
Old    Chris (Frozenwhite)      Join Date: Jun 2011       05-01-2012, 12:15 PM Reply   
Managed to sort the video out

Old    Jamie (Wiatowski)      Join Date: Aug 2011       05-01-2012, 8:39 PM Reply   
Wanted to ask if Matt took a set and if so did you get any video?
Old    Chris (Frozenwhite)      Join Date: Jun 2011       05-02-2012, 1:48 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiatowski View Post
Wanted to ask if Matt took a set and if so did you get any video?
Unfortunately not when I was there. He was coaching for 4 days though so I'm sure he would have been out after the coaching was done at least one of the days. If any footage appears I will post it for you

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