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Old    Matthew Spencer (canadian_waterboy)      Join Date: Apr 2008       03-03-2012, 1:27 PM Reply   
It seems to me that most serious riders are sacking their boats out these days. I know I do. While I don't mind doing it, it's a pretty arduous and time consuming process. Most of the time I'm riding just before dusk when there is the least boat traffic and wind, and so sacking up always puts a strain on my schedule. I mean who likes riding in the dark right? Now I know what most of you will say, "Get organized and get your boat prepped earlier, stop complaining about a problem that has a simple solution" and you would be right, my problem is mostly due to my poor time management. However, as boat manufacturers strive to add new and improved features (digital dash, follow cam, plug n play) I'm left wondering why companies haven't started installing larger internal factory ballast set ups? I mean Epic has the 4000 lb ballast tanks, but to my knowledge, they are the only manufacturer doing this. I know with plug n play you can add extra bags, but unless they are in the locker they are cumbersome and detract from the boat's seating capacity. I was wondering what wakeworld thinks of my predicament?
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       03-03-2012, 1:29 PM Reply   
Tige offers 2,500 as does MB Sports.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       03-03-2012, 4:54 PM Reply   
spencer, I agree with you and have had that same question for years... I have heard from others on ww about coast guard or government rules and laws, but not sure how or why Epic can do it and nobody else can. Yes supra has 2k+, tige 2500, mb's 23 footer has over 2k, but common, you are talking about sacking out your boat, and 2500 on a 23+ footer, although a nice starting point, doesnt cut it.

Most companies offer plug n play systems that can get you into the 3's while keeping it under the seats, Axis can get you into 4k all hidden under the seats or in lockers and all on factory installed pumps and switches, but it kills your storage space.

You will get the "but 95% of wakeboat owners do not sack out their boats"... In my area, over %50 of the the wakeboats I see on the water are sacked out. Also, with the surge of wakesurfing, having the ability to have a couple thousand pounds in each locker is becoming more desirable. Finally, it is fun to be able to sink your boat and take a set on a huge wake, even if you do not do it all the time....

I am with you on that one.
Old    Matthew Spencer (canadian_waterboy)      Join Date: Apr 2008       03-03-2012, 5:22 PM Reply   
The only thing I can really think of is access. I know that EPIC boats have massive hard tanks underneath the floor. This design seems logical considering it utilizes space which would otherwise be wasted. However, I can see where repairs to the ballast system would be difficult considering the placement. I do remember looking at a 2007 EPIC 23V that had been improperly winterized. The boat had a cracked internal hard tank, and there was talk about cutting the floor open to fix it... defininely not a DIY repair... at least for me
Old    Matthew Spencer (canadian_waterboy)      Join Date: Apr 2008       03-03-2012, 5:24 PM Reply   
I must say though, I am pretty impressed that you can get 4K in an Axis with the plug N play. That must be a nice wake.
Old     (pprior)      Join Date: Jan 2012       03-03-2012, 7:38 PM Reply   
I know just the sacked weight on my boat is over the stickered capacity weight - figure that might have something to do with it....
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       03-03-2012, 7:40 PM Reply   
Yeah, that is one of the reasons I went with Axis. I was soooo tired of having a buttload of lead everywhere, or having to fill and empty fat sacks with the portable pumps. I just wanted to drop the boat in, flip a few switches to sink the boat, then ride... and once done, flip a few switches again and leave. I do have a bit of lead still, but that is so that I did not have to go with the 1100s in the lockers, or have to put a sack in the bow. My wife loves that you wont see any lead or sacks, except if you start opening compartments. It is surprisingly hard to find a boat that you can hide so much water ballast in, and still have everything connected to the stock pumps.
Old    The Truth (boomshot)      Join Date: Jan 2008       03-03-2012, 9:52 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pprior View Post
I know just the sacked weight on my boat is over the stickered capacity weight - figure that might have something to do with it....
That is why the top-tier boats will not do it. This and only this. This thread is over, because this is why. This answers the OP's question.
Old    Jeremy Byrom (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       03-03-2012, 10:19 PM Reply   
Even though Epic has the most ballast and all of it is under the floor preserving every bit of storage space... the depth of the seating is sacrificed. it feels weird sitting so high up with seat backs that only go 1/2 way up your back and your knees kinda high, like you were a big kid Billy Madison in pre-school seats
But this is based off an experience sitting in one trailered by a hotel. saw the owner outside standing next to my dream boat and had to stop and check it out in person for the first time.
I am still kicking myself for not going the extra mile and asking if i could join them later to ride behind it. Dumb dumb dumb jeremy.
I want to try riding behind an epic SOOOO bad and still consider it a dream boat, even still after being a little disappointed with seat depth

another good question is why more brands are not adopting the gravity-fed ballast. MB does and Epic started last year. Calabria.

Last edited by wakerider111; 03-03-2012 at 10:21 PM.
Old    Jeremy Byrom (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       03-03-2012, 10:24 PM Reply   
**ohh and another thing you got to watch out for if looking at an epic. if you are bleeding, the blood will drip out through the floor drains and attract flesh-eating marine life....

**gota watch shark night and laugh the whole way through
Old    Mitch (wakemitch)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-03-2012, 10:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakerider111 View Post
another good question is why more brands are not adopting the gravity-fed ballast. MB does and Epic started last year. Calabria.
Centurion does now too
Old    Jeremy Byrom (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       03-03-2012, 10:35 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakemitch View Post
Centurion does now too
right on, did not know that.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       03-03-2012, 11:36 PM Reply   
problem with the gravity feed system is it is a closed system and can not (or has not yet) be piggy backed on for extra ballast. epic doesnt have this concern because it has two tons of stock. The rest of the boats that use this system (mb, calabria, centurion...etc) have a decent amount that most of us do not need more... unless you surf.

What a pain to have a gravity system that gets you 1800 lbs that fills really fast, but then you have to sit there and fill fat sacks, or have pumps and sacks plumbed in having 2 seperate systems.

Jeremy, i have ridden, driven and rode behind and epic a few years ago and do not remember the seats being a concern to me. Then again, I am only 5'8" so it probably fit me fine.
Old    Jeremy Byrom (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       03-04-2012, 11:46 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_defacto View Post
problem with the gravity feed system is it is a closed system and can not (or has not yet) be piggy backed on for extra ballast.

...

Jeremy, i have ridden, driven and rode behind and epic a few years ago and do not remember the seats being a concern to me. Then again, I am only 5'8" so it probably fit me fine.
i would think it would be rather easy to make plug and play systems for gravity fed ballast too. just will have to wait and see what companies come up with.

I am 6ft. even... i might be exaggerating a bit and poking fun about epic's seating. just kinda reminds me of sitting in an older natique
on another note, looking at pictures with passengers, Epic has passengers with their lower arm resting on the deck/seat-back (upper arm is kinda straight and elbow bent at about 90*). other boats you see almost the entire arm resting on the deck/seat-back.
...there could be some misrepresentation with slouching and or person height too
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       03-05-2012, 12:15 PM Reply   
I ride in both an Epic ('07) and a '10 MB F23 and I think the seating is about the same in both of them but the drivers seat is what kills me in the MB. Feel like my knees are in my chin in that thing for some reason. I have a Tige RZ2 and it is a deep boat by comparison to both of them.
Old    M-Dizzle (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-05-2012, 6:31 PM Reply   
Aside from the obvious answer that truth gave here is some more food for thought:

I would say that roughly 10% (AT BEST) of boat owners "need" or "can safely operate and use" more than factory ballast. I personally dont like the idea of some dude who cannot even clear the wake TS filling his boat up with 4k plus and whipping around bat turns when the rider falls. Same goes for people who do "extreme" tubing with full ballast. Don't get me wrong, I am all for family and fun...but i have been shat on enough over the years from poor etiquette and just plain A-holes to realize you cannot teach everyone nor will everyone respect your space.

Additionally, the boat retrieval company's would make a KILLING pulling up all the sunk boats of owners who filled the boat to capacity with weight, added people and didnt know how to drive the boat and took on massive water...additionally the lawsuits would be high as well (I recall a recent mastercraft one). You dont just "hop" behind the wheel of a 21ft'r with 4k in it and take off. Most who ride with that kind of weight know how to handle it, and what it's limitations are. The general populous doesn't.

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