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Old    Darren Lamont (dlamont)      Join Date: Apr 2003       02-28-2012, 12:11 PM Reply   
Mastercrafts don't take water over the bow. Everyone knows that.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       02-28-2012, 12:12 PM Reply   
Old    Darren Lamont (dlamont)      Join Date: Apr 2003       02-28-2012, 12:24 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlamont View Post
Mastercrafts don't take water over the bow. Everyone knows that.
sorry forgot to mention that was in sarcasm font.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       02-28-2012, 12:50 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlamont View Post
sorry forgot to mention that was in sarcasm font.
Darren, have you gotten that X30 out on the water yet so you can let us all know(especially the OP) what the wake is like? We have had perfect weather for boating in Seattle the last week or so. high winds, rain, snow, cold. Be a trooper and help the OP out.
Old    J.B. O'Neill (gnarslayer)      Join Date: Sep 2008       02-28-2012, 1:00 PM Reply   
the wakeboard wake is way sicker on the LSV

get the wakesetter dude
Old    Craig Emerton (craigtxmc)      Join Date: Oct 2008       02-28-2012, 9:11 PM Reply   
My two cents.....

Malibu's always seem to have that great turning and stick you to your seat handling. Trying to combat that is a no win situation in my opinion.. Sometimes you just have to say hey, they drive great.. They always look great with the hand stitched vinyl on the dash, the chrome bezels, and the screens are top notch. The wedge is also pretty cool.
If I'm being completely honest, I will be the first to admit that MC will not usual win a hard cornering contest. However, they ride better and handle choppy water better. That's where the foam floor and stringer system flexes its muscle. I'm confident that the MC has a quieter ride as well. Perhaps one could compare that to a Lexus type of quiet/comfort, etc...
Sometimes it's ok to say hey, if you think you'd rather have handling over comfort than Bu is a good choice for you. It's not saying anything negative about either brand.. There's a great boat for everyone.
Now, a few things I like about MC's vs Malibu.. The windshield is stronger on the MC. I'm 6'4 240 and I can literally do dips on the windshield of an MC. The Bu generally has more flex when tested. The Bu uses cheaper hardware throughout. You can see this on hinges especially. I would recommend opening hatches, pulling on shift panels, etc... As far as one piece deck molds, I think that definitely favors MC. It allows more storage (wider, deeper access), stronger seat bases, and center console type wash and go ability. You can check this by simply lifting a Bu cushion and feeling and seeing flex. If you also take into consideration that MC uses HDPE backing in their deck molds to help with future rattles, etc, I feel that one may justify some of the price difference. The build techniques are more expensive when you have to maintain 2 molds per boat. There are a lot of maintenance man hours involved. It's also nice to know there are many areas that MC's are through bolted vs screwed in.
I'm sure I'll hear that I'm a Koop aid guy too but I tried to honestly note a number of quality differences. I'll be happy to answer any questions if I can help..

The bottom line is it's not always bashing when you point out construction differences. Please know that we hear why are MC's higher? That requires pointing out differences.
Craig.
Old    Craig Emerton (craigtxmc)      Join Date: Oct 2008       02-28-2012, 9:31 PM Reply   
And I was just trying to share my opinion. No disrespect To any Malibu owners intended.
Old    Darren Lamont (dlamont)      Join Date: Apr 2003       02-29-2012, 12:09 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by polarbill View Post
Darren, have you gotten that X30 out on the water yet so you can let us all know(especially the OP) what the wake is like? We have had perfect weather for boating in Seattle the last week or so. high winds, rain, snow, cold. Be a trooper and help the OP out.
Don't have the X30 yet, we get our first one in late March. From images I've seen and talking with MC factory guys the X30 will have a similar wakeboarding wake to the X15 and the surf wake is the best in the line. I'll be doing my own market research in March to confirm.
We had one for the Seattle Boat Show and I was simply impressed with the size and storage it has. MC really didn't have anything that competed that well with the LSV and I think the X30 will give it a good run.
To the OP, go demo both. Tell your dealer to fly you to the factories in Tennessee. I've sent multiple customers to the MC plant. Malibu is right down the street. A plane ticket is pretty minimal considering the price of these boats now.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       02-29-2012, 6:49 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigtxmc View Post
My two cents.....

Malibu's always seem to have that great turning and stick you to your seat handling. Trying to combat that is a no win situation in my opinion.. Sometimes you just have to say hey, they drive great.. They always look great with the hand stitched vinyl on the dash, the chrome bezels, and the screens are top notch. The wedge is also pretty cool.
If I'm being completely honest, I will be the first to admit that MC will not usual win a hard cornering contest. However, they ride better and handle choppy water better. That's where the foam floor and stringer system flexes its muscle. I'm confident that the MC has a quieter ride as well. Perhaps one could compare that to a Lexus type of quiet/comfort, etc...
Sometimes it's ok to say hey, if you think you'd rather have handling over comfort than Bu is a good choice for you. It's not saying anything negative about either brand.. There's a great boat for everyone.
Now, a few things I like about MC's vs Malibu.. The windshield is stronger on the MC. I'm 6'4 240 and I can literally do dips on the windshield of an MC. The Bu generally has more flex when tested. The Bu uses cheaper hardware throughout. You can see this on hinges especially. I would recommend opening hatches, pulling on shift panels, etc... As far as one piece deck molds, I think that definitely favors MC. It allows more storage (wider, deeper access), stronger seat bases, and center console type wash and go ability. You can check this by simply lifting a Bu cushion and feeling and seeing flex. If you also take into consideration that MC uses HDPE backing in their deck molds to help with future rattles, etc, I feel that one may justify some of the price difference. The build techniques are more expensive when you have to maintain 2 molds per boat. There are a lot of maintenance man hours involved. It's also nice to know there are many areas that MC's are through bolted vs screwed in.
I'm sure I'll hear that I'm a Koop aid guy too but I tried to honestly note a number of quality differences. I'll be happy to answer any questions if I can help..

The bottom line is it's not always bashing when you point out construction differences. Please know that we hear why are MC's higher? That requires pointing out differences.
Craig.
Alan - please take notes.

Great insight and *opinion* Craig.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       02-29-2012, 9:07 AM Reply   
We just went through 4 Xstars before switching to an LSV. I can tell you the Malibu is much quieter and more peaceful to ride in than the MC. Probably because the interior is better insulated from engine and running noise by the added upholstery and carpet. Also, the Xstar handled chop no better than the Malibu. This has more to do with boat size and where you're holding weight than anything else. And honestly, I'm out to wakeboard in nice flat water, so how a wake boat handles chop has always seemed silly to me. It's like debating which sports car will perform best on dirt roads. It's a sport boat.

The windshield? Maybe it is stronger? But are Malibu windshields failing? Maybe it's another Mastercraft over-engineering job, like the 500$ billet aluminum walk through door that rattles underway, and the 5 figure tower that helped price them out of the market.

My 2 cents
Old    Craig Emerton (craigtxmc)      Join Date: Oct 2008       02-29-2012, 10:03 AM Reply   
J-Rod, I'm going to take the high road on this but I'll say my opinion as well. In equal lengths, Malibu DOES NOT ride better than a MasterCraft. No offense, but that isn't true no matter how loyal to Bu you are... Does MC's power tower make sense to all? No, it is very expensive. Their 2 point tower is now rock solid and free of rattles. I haven't had a ZFT4 on the water yet so i cant speak for that tower yet.

As far as going to the lake to board...? I don't know where you board but it must be a private lake because where 99% of the boats go to public lakes where about 80% of the lake is chaos and 20% share the riding areas. That makes a better riding boat a benefit. I'm not saying Malibu's are like riding in john boats, i'm just saying MC's ride better. And families with MOMS tend to agree. That's a selling feature for MC, in my opinion.

As far as over-engineering, i like that term. I'll take that all day versus cutting corners. Malibu's can't use the same components or their prices would be higher. Do you agree that it costs more to build a MasterCraft? That's why they cost more. That's why Cobalts cost more than Chaparrals... It's also why Correct Craft's cost more than Malibu's. It doesn't mean any of those boats are inferior, cheap, fall-apart boats. Isn't it ok to just sometimes say some items are better built than others without causing a rift? Do you agree that Chevrolet heavy duty trucks are better built than Dodge's? That doesn't make Dodge a cheap, fall-apart truck, it just means Chevy's are better built with better components. If you've spent any time in those trucks you would see a difference. Yes, Chevy is not better in all areas, just many or even most. That's all I'm trying to say.. I give credit where credit is due, but I also have my opinions. No offense intended. For real.

Malibu's are great boats. They really are. They just aren't the best built. But that doesn't mean they don't provide just as much fun, if not more...
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       02-29-2012, 10:10 AM Reply   
Mastercraft cost more because of their PAYROLL. Look at all the riders they sponser.How did they get those riders? Money and a free boat.They also spend more on advertising.Sure the fasteners they use might cost 100 to 200 more than others and their interior might cost them 300 or so more.But their Major cost difference is in advertising and sponsership contracts.
Old    Hate2party (slipknot)      Join Date: Aug 2001       02-29-2012, 10:11 AM Reply   
The best built boats are Correct Crafts
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            02-29-2012, 10:16 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by slipknot View Post
The best built boats are Correct Crafts
Thank you! Ive been waiting for someone to speak the truth lol
Old    Nauti 210 (brett33)      Join Date: Apr 2011       02-29-2012, 10:22 AM Reply   
+1 for Correct Craft FTW
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-29-2012, 10:22 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
Mastercraft cost more because of their PAYROLL. Look at all the riders they sponser.How did they get those riders? Money and a free boat.They also spend more on advertising.Sure the fasteners they use might cost 100 to 200 more than others and their interior might cost them 300 or so more.But their Major cost difference is in advertising and sponsership contracts.
I agree with this. I haven't driven any of the new mastercrafts, but I find it hard to beleive they drive much better than the BUs. I've yet to drive a 23 foot boat that drives as well as the LSV, it doesn't drive exactly like my VTX, but it isn't too far off.
Old    Craig Emerton (craigtxmc)      Join Date: Oct 2008       02-29-2012, 10:26 AM Reply   
Hey, I consider CC and MC the 2 best built boats out there. I agree 100%.

All those contracts you speak of and the pro riders help make MC the 2nd most recognized name in the marine industry behind Sea Ray. Just sayin.. That's part of the deal when you are an industry leader. Go ask Red Bull how much they pay their athletes and how involved they are in their industry. Branding is VERY important in my opinion. I may be wrong, but that's ok too. I've been wrong many times.

Haven't you heard the saying... " You gotta spend money to make money?" LOL J/K
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-29-2012, 10:27 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by brett33 View Post
+1 for Correct Craft FTW
I love the build quality of correct craft boats. The wiring harnesses, the henges, the connections, just about everything is top notch. I don't like how they are set up inside in their smaller boats, and how you have to hammer it to get a clean wake on the 230, and the stupid expensive prices. If my wife had her way we'd be shooping for a 230, but it isn't going to happen with their price points and some of the issues I mentioned above
Old    Mark (FunkyBunch)      Join Date: Jun 2011       02-29-2012, 10:28 AM Reply   
Craig all I can say is "trailer straps" man be careful.

I think Craig's review is pretty good if you look at it. There are some things I agree with and some I don't but that is what opinions are for we all have one. I think Mastercraft does over build somethings in their boats and that fine. Some of the differences IMO are useless and some think they are great features. I personally love the Malibu wake and their non-cluttered interior. I like the MC with the fiberglass floor and snap out carpet. I hate how hard it is to clean the inside of the boat with our mud lakes here in Texas.
Build quality seems to come up with every boat comparison and I really did not know what the differences where in the manufacturing processes. The one piece top deck was an interesting difference along with how the top deck is attached to the hull. I have also noticed there is a difference in the way the hulls are laminated. I am not sure what I really think is better at the end of the day other than just a manufacturing difference.
I tell myself all the time you get what you pay for, but then I also ask my self do I want or need what I am paying for. That could be different for all of us. Good luck with your boat purchase OP.
Old    Craig Emerton (craigtxmc)      Join Date: Oct 2008       02-29-2012, 10:30 AM Reply   
Chris, I said they RIDE better. I understand that Malibu's are great handling boats. I'm the first to admit that.
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-29-2012, 10:33 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigtxmc View Post
Hey, I consider CC and MC the 2 best built boats out there. I agree 100%.

All those contracts you speak of and the pro riders help make MC the 2nd most recognized name in the marine industry behind Sea Ray. Just sayin.. That's part of the deal when you are an industry leader. Go ask Red Bull how much they pay their athletes and how involved they are in their industry. Branding is VERY important in my opinion. I may be wrong, but that's ok too. I've been wrong many times.

Haven't you heard the saying... " You gotta spend money to make money?" LOL J/K
You do have to spend to make, and some of that spending is reflected in their prices versus their Quality of build. Malibu does the same thing and it's reflected in their prices also. I think all of the big three have their pluses and minuses. The problem where I live is that MC and CC don't have good dealer presences to make them viable options to the educated boater. The CC dealer here treats the wakeboats like their red headed step children. Nice people just more into selling cobalts. We don't need to bring up the MC dealers issues any more than already has been
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       02-29-2012, 10:38 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigtxmc View Post
My two cents.....

Malibu's always seem to have that great turning and stick you to your seat handling. Trying to combat that is a no win situation in my opinion.. Sometimes you just have to say hey, they drive great.. They always look great with the hand stitched vinyl on the dash, the chrome bezels, and the screens are top notch. The wedge is also pretty cool.
If I'm being completely honest, I will be the first to admit that MC will not usual win a hard cornering contest. However, they ride better and handle choppy water better. That's where the foam floor and stringer system flexes its muscle. I'm confident that the MC has a quieter ride as well. Perhaps one could compare that to a Lexus type of quiet/comfort, etc...
Sometimes it's ok to say hey, if you think you'd rather have handling over comfort than Bu is a good choice for you. It's not saying anything negative about either brand.. There's a great boat for everyone.
Now, a few things I like about MC's vs Malibu.. The windshield is stronger on the MC. I'm 6'4 240 and I can literally do dips on the windshield of an MC. The Bu generally has more flex when tested. The Bu uses cheaper hardware throughout. You can see this on hinges especially. I would recommend opening hatches, pulling on shift panels, etc... As far as one piece deck molds, I think that definitely favors MC. It allows more storage (wider, deeper access), stronger seat bases, and center console type wash and go ability. You can check this by simply lifting a Bu cushion and feeling and seeing flex. If you also take into consideration that MC uses HDPE backing in their deck molds to help with future rattles, etc, I feel that one may justify some of the price difference. The build techniques are more expensive when you have to maintain 2 molds per boat. There are a lot of maintenance man hours involved. It's also nice to know there are many areas that MC's are through bolted vs screwed in.
I'm sure I'll hear that I'm a Koop aid guy too but I tried to honestly note a number of quality differences. I'll be happy to answer any questions if I can help..

The bottom line is it's not always bashing when you point out construction differences. Please know that we hear why are MC's higher? That requires pointing out differences.
Craig.
Honestly that sounds exactly like the sales pitch I was suppose to use when I sold mastercrafts. The part about the windshield and supports is correct in my opinion but like Jarrod said I am not sure it really matters unless you are going to be doing dips on your windshield on a regular basis. I don't think the Malibu windshields are falling apart unless abused. Here is my rundown on of the 2 which I think is better at certain criteria in "general". I am sure they don't apply over the entire line in some cases.

-Looks-not going to go there as it is personal preference although I like the looks of Malibu better.
-Stock Wakeboard Wake-Malibu crushes Mastercraft in stock wake. The only mastercraft even close may be the X25 but I haven't been in one so can't comment.
-Loaded down Wakeboard wake-Pretty even for the most part but I think the malibu us better over their entire line then the Mastercraft. The X2 and X45 aren't on the same level as the VTX and 247. The 2004-2011 Xstar is amazing obviously, the X15 is really good loaded down and the X25 seems to get rave reviews.
-Stock surf wake-Neither are great so I don't think either win when compared to other boats with more stock ballast and deeper V hulls.
-Loaded surf wake-same as above. Neither brand makes a deeper V boat so not sure they are considered great surf boats although both lines have boats that can throw awesome surf wakes, it just takes a lot of weight.
-Handling-Malibu hands down. When selling mastercraft I had multiple customers comment on how much better the Malibu's drove then the comparable Mastercraft.
-Rough water ride-Both suck compared to most boats now because they don't have deep V's like a lot of the other boats. Like Jarrod said this doesn't matter to me personally.
-Quietness while driving-Malibu-Too many people have commented on this. I never thought Mastercrafts were quiet.
-Core build process-Mastercraft-I like the one piece deck and honestly it helped sell a lot fo boats.
-Ease of cleaning-Mastercraft hands down-Snap out carpet and a drain. You can just spray the whole floor down and pull carpet out and shampoo/vacuum easily. The newer malibus have a tub insert with snap out carpet when optioned that way so the carpet removal is nice for cleaning but you still can't just spray down the interior like you can with a Mastercraft.
-Interior comfort-Malibu-Both utalize nice wrap around seating with little obstructions or changes in angles. I do think Malibu's though have a much plusher/nicer interior look and feel. They feel more comfy sofa like then the Mastercraft. Mastercraft has too many panels with crazy cross stitching as well which in my opinion doesn't do anything better and just looks too busy.
-Tower-Both have had some faults olong the way but the Mastercraft towers have had problems after problems. I fell like the original illusion was better and had less problems then the 2007 to whenever tower for mastercraft and the new G3 tower is great looking and functional. Same can't be said for any of the power towers and they have had problems.
Racks-Mastercraft hands down. Still love those clamp swivel racks.
Engines-Not sure, sounds like the Ilmor's could be sick but I am not sure there is anything wrong with Indmar's.

Overall I think the Malibu's are a better boat for the money because of plush feel, better stock wake, better handling, better tower and I personally like the looks better. I do think if you are abusing the 2 boats the Mastercraft may last longer or look better for longer because of the single piece cap construction and snapout carpet/fiberglass/gelcoat seat bases. Just my opinion. I would like to own either. I am also interested to see how the X30 performs. I don't really see how it is going to be an amazing surf boat if they flattened out the hull like Zane said though. If you can get the X30 with the older ZFT tower like in 2007-2010 with/without the LCD display for a similar price to a 23LSV it would be a tough choice assuming the X30 performs well.
Old    Nauti 210 (brett33)      Join Date: Apr 2011       02-29-2012, 10:39 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjh1669 View Post
I don't like how they are set up inside in their smaller boats, and how you have to hammer it to get a clean wake on the 230, and the stupid expensive prices.
you do realize Bu, MC and CC are all "stupid expensive", right?
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-29-2012, 10:49 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by brett33 View Post
you do realize Bu, MC and CC are all "stupid expensive", right?
All wakeboats are stupid expensive, CCs just happen to be so much so that they don't compete in my opinion. Also like I said they almost zero dealer presence in Denver. 85k for a 21ft moderately optioned boat, when you can get a VLX for almost 15k less wiht just about every option out there. Also the 210 feels much smaller inside than the VLX
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       02-29-2012, 11:53 AM Reply   
I agree that the wakeboat industry as a whole has gone bananas. I mean, yes, every industry is going to have cost increases, and stuff is going to get nicer and nicer, as more creature comforts are thrown in as standard options. What's bizzare, is that the hulls of these wakeboats and motors really don't change that often, yet we see huge yearly increases in prices due to added technology, redesigned aesthetic features, like vinyl layouts, cupholders, etc. I understand MC went to Ilmore, Bu added the CTSV motor, etc. etc. But apart from that, when you price a nicely equipped vlx, 230, xstar, etc., with the same options that were available 3 years ago, the price difference is nuts. The probem is that the consumer just nuts up and continues to pay whatever they can finance year after year. I'm wondering at what point does the market shift so that there is a rejection across the board of these astronomical prices? Maybe when gas is $5 a gallon, and people can't afford the $500/month note on a 15 year loan. Who knows?

Heck, even MB, Tige and Supra, which in my neck of the woods were always viewed as budget friendly alternatives to the big 3, are creaping up into the same 65-90k price range. Even Axis and Moomba's prices are steadily going up - while perhapse not at the same rate. It's just crazy to me to look back and remember what I paid for my '02 XStar back in '04, and what I paid for my '08 230 in '07, and think that if I added both of those prices together, I still wouldn't be able to buy a loaded '12 230 or '12 X25 today.

Here we are talking about how one brand is built better than another, how one brand uses higher quality hinges, etc. As consumers, we are drinking the industry kookaid with gusto. How expensive are hinges anyway? What's next, diamond encrusted steering wheels?

Hell, ALL of these boats are overbuilt. Who needs a friggin supercharged dry sump racecar motor in their wakeboat that tops out at 45mph? Who needs a tower that raises and lowers itself? Who needs 9 different touch screens and rider specific presets? What we need is a tower that works, a hull that produces a sick wake, a platform that enhances a surf wave, a faster ballast system, a more fuel efficient motor, a swim platform that folds so it's easier to store a boat, a friggin better cooler option.

Ok, sorry. Rant over. I'm going to google image search Kate Upton.
Old    RPenner (pennery)      Join Date: Jul 2006       02-29-2012, 12:04 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by brett33 View Post
you do realize Bu, MC and CC are all "stupid expensive", right?
Pretty relative statement...
Old    Nauti 210 (brett33)      Join Date: Apr 2011       02-29-2012, 12:08 PM Reply   
Quote:
Ok, sorry. Rant over. I'm going to google image search Kate Upton.
seriously! her boobs would bring peace to this thread!

I agree Chatt. I wish there was a new company or an existing one that would produce a serious "Riders Edition" boat. Like you said, no bells and whistles.. just the essentials. When someone does that and does it right, they wont be able to build boats fast enough. Maybe then the other companies will get the drift!
Old    Craig Emerton (craigtxmc)      Join Date: Oct 2008       02-29-2012, 12:11 PM Reply   
In my opinion, Kate is built better than any of the boats discussed here today. However, $100,000 wouldn't touch that!!!! She's nice. Real nice.
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            02-29-2012, 12:12 PM Reply   
Did someone say kate upton?? Ahhh...soo dreamy
Old    Mark (FunkyBunch)      Join Date: Jun 2011       02-29-2012, 12:27 PM Reply   
Intermission




continue rants
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       02-29-2012, 12:42 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkyBunch View Post
Intermission




continue rants
Puck me!!!
Old    Craig Emerton (craigtxmc)      Join Date: Oct 2008       02-29-2012, 12:43 PM Reply   
That's just not right man.....
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       02-29-2012, 12:44 PM Reply   



Old    LR3w8kbrdr            02-29-2012, 12:50 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkyBunch View Post
Intermission




continue rants
Of course you had to pick the one of the painting on bathing suit! Im at work bro...how can i focus now??



Something about this pic just leves my jaw dropping.
Old    Mark (FunkyBunch)      Join Date: Jun 2011       02-29-2012, 1:00 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by LR3w8kbrdr View Post
Of course you had to pick the one of the painting on bathing suit! Im at work bro...how can i focus now??
Sorry man if it makes a difference I am at work to. And the one I posted doesn't jiggle like chats does.
Old    Aaron (aarond0083)      Join Date: Apr 2007       02-29-2012, 1:04 PM Reply   

Last edited by aarond0083; 02-29-2012 at 1:08 PM.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       02-29-2012, 1:34 PM Reply   
"Malibu DOES NOT ride better than a MasterCraft"

Craig, I never say they did. I was refuting the claim that the MC was quieter than the Malibu. They're not. That's a fact.

And I respect your opinion, but I've owned 2 Malibu LSVs, and 6 Mastercrafts (X1s and Xstars) between 2001 and now. So, I think I have enough experience with the two brands to form my own opinion.

I ride on the delta. We do have a lot of good water, but like every place else, we have bad water some days. Still, I would never consider the rough-water-ride as a requirement. If I did, it would be very low on the list. Riding around in rough water in ANY sport boat sucks. MCs included.

What's with the MOM and Family thing?

I don't know what point you're trying to make with your last paragraph. It doesn't seem relevant to anything that I said. I was simply trying to suggest that if you're going to compare boats, compare things that matter. I don't need to pay extra for a windshield strong enough to do dips on. It's not important to most wakeboarders that I know. A claim for a superior hull construction might be worth paying attention to if boat hulls were failing. But they're not!

"Malibu's can't use the same components or their prices would be higher." Please explain. Or show me an example that matters.

You're welcome to come out and take a walk through our 2011 LSV with 250 hours on it. Please show me an example of corner cutting and how it has effected my experience. You won't find any gel coat cracks either, even after nearly 100 double ups with thousands of pounds of weight. Our Xstar was littered with them.

There's something that matters.
Old    Dave Gast (nautiquesonly)      Join Date: Sep 2007       02-29-2012, 2:05 PM Reply   
The windshield comment makes me laugh. I have several friends. With MCs and I would not do dips on a newer windshield. I am sure both brands windshields are adequate and that comparison has nothing to do with normal use. I know from first hand experience that MC support bracket lower portions are just screwed to the dash not thru bolted. Realized that this summer when my friends 07 x2 had those screws falling out. We took it apart and re bolted it.
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       02-29-2012, 2:42 PM Reply   
What were we talking about again?
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       02-29-2012, 2:43 PM Reply   

Last edited by chattwake; 02-29-2012 at 2:46 PM.
Old    Craig Emerton (craigtxmc)      Join Date: Oct 2008       02-29-2012, 2:51 PM Reply   
Thanks for the info fellas. We can agree to disagree.
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-29-2012, 3:07 PM Reply   
I think what we have learned here, and hopefully will help the OP decide, is that the big three(plus some other makers like tige and MB) make great boats. They all have their short comings and they all have things they do well. The key is finding the boat that fits what you need. If a sales guy tries to convince you their brand is soo much better due to it's name or some weird arbitrary thing that has nothing to do wiht how the boat is used, ignore it. In the end DEMO DEMO DEMO. Drive and ride behind them and findout for yourself what boat fits you. To quote Timothy Leary "Think for yourself, question authority"
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-29-2012, 3:09 PM Reply   
...oh and chicks from the the swimsuit edition rock!
Old    Craig Emerton (craigtxmc)      Join Date: Oct 2008       02-29-2012, 3:33 PM Reply   
Easy on the salesguys. At least we make an attempt to give opinions. Even if they aren't always supported, we still step out there. Is it the smartest thing to do? Of course not. My kids and I go to the lake nearly every weekend so it's not something i do part time. Your comments are great ones. Find a boat thats good for you and demo and ask questions.
I'm a salesman and I like to be sold so I don't mind when someone puts it out there for me to filter through. That's the nature of the beast in my opinion.

Good luck in your search OP. Hope to hear from you sometime...
Everyone else, thank you for the comments and happy WW'ing..

BY THE WAY.... WAIT TILL YOU GUYS SEE MY COMPLETELY BLACKED OUT TOMCAT (tower, windshield, logos, dash, pylon, trailer)COMING IN WITH FERRARI RED SEATS!!!!! That's also stepping out there! Pics to come in a few weeks.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       02-29-2012, 3:35 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattwake View Post
I agree that the wakeboat industry as a whole has gone bananas. I mean, yes, every industry is going to have cost increases, and stuff is going to get nicer and nicer, as more creature comforts are thrown in as standard options. What's bizzare, is that the hulls of these wakeboats and motors really don't change that often, yet we see huge yearly increases in prices due to added technology, redesigned aesthetic features, like vinyl layouts, cupholders, etc. I understand MC went to Ilmore, Bu added the CTSV motor, etc. etc. But apart from that, when you price a nicely equipped vlx, 230, xstar, etc., with the same options that were available 3 years ago, the price difference is nuts. The probem is that the consumer just nuts up and continues to pay whatever they can finance year after year. I'm wondering at what point does the market shift so that there is a rejection across the board of these astronomical prices? Maybe when gas is $5 a gallon, and people can't afford the $500/month note on a 15 year loan. Who knows?

Heck, even MB, Tige and Supra, which in my neck of the woods were always viewed as budget friendly alternatives to the big 3, are creaping up into the same 65-90k price range. Even Axis and Moomba's prices are steadily going up - while perhapse not at the same rate. It's just crazy to me to look back and remember what I paid for my '02 XStar back in '04, and what I paid for my '08 230 in '07, and think that if I added both of those prices together, I still wouldn't be able to buy a loaded '12 230 or '12 X25 today.

Here we are talking about how one brand is built better than another, how one brand uses higher quality hinges, etc. As consumers, we are drinking the industry kookaid with gusto. How expensive are hinges anyway? What's next, diamond encrusted steering wheels?

Hell, ALL of these boats are overbuilt. Who needs a friggin supercharged dry sump racecar motor in their wakeboat that tops out at 45mph? Who needs a tower that raises and lowers itself? Who needs 9 different touch screens and rider specific presets? What we need is a tower that works, a hull that produces a sick wake, a platform that enhances a surf wave, a faster ballast system, a more fuel efficient motor, a swim platform that folds so it's easier to store a boat, a friggin better cooler option.

Ok, sorry. Rant over. I'm going to google image search Kate Upton.

Chatt... this might be your best post ever. We don't always agree on junk, but man did you hit hte nail on the head with this one.

You are right... we are all suckers. Otherwise we wouldn't be reading and contributing to this thread at 3pm on a work day.
Old    Craig Emerton (craigtxmc)      Join Date: Oct 2008       02-29-2012, 3:58 PM Reply   
Nuff said....
Attached Images
 
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       02-29-2012, 4:40 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigtxmc View Post
Nuff said....
I really like the effort Craig but I hate that shirt and everything it stands for. Mostly that it covers up her tata's.
Old    Craig Emerton (craigtxmc)      Join Date: Oct 2008       02-29-2012, 4:50 PM Reply   
You have no idea how fun it was to color them. she smiled the whole time.. ha
Old    L W (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       02-29-2012, 5:11 PM Reply   
I took the family and we looked at both boats agin today. Decision isn't any easier. Both are very nice boats. Now to see where the final numbers come in and weigh all these pro's and con's.
Old    L W (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       02-29-2012, 5:12 PM Reply   
Oh, and thanks for adding pics to the thread.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       02-29-2012, 6:18 PM Reply   
Levi. either way you go, it will be a blast to pick out colors and options.

My only concern is dropping $75k+ on a boat in which you have not ridden behind, ridden the wake or wave, seen pictures of the wake or wave, or heard actual reviews from real people who have experience behind the wake or wave. The bu is tried and tru, the mc's is unseen and new. Not test driving the bu is not a big deal. everyone knows they handle superbly and the wake and wave is fantastic. But not test driving a first gen boat??? i couldnt do it, even if it was 10k cheaper.

however, its your money and I cant wait to see pics of your new ride.
Old    Greg Miller (malibu23lsv)      Join Date: Feb 2012       02-29-2012, 7:54 PM Reply   
Levi, good luck! Just a few other differences between the brands you may be interested in. All the diamond pleat stitching on the MC is chain stitched as opposed to lock stitched. This means that when one thread gets cut, the whole line will run. Also, Malibu uses a Gore-tex thread for strength, stain resistance and UV protection...MC uses a more standard marine thread that has had issues with staining/yellowing in the past. The gore-tex thread is more difficult to sew with but Malibu figures it's value to the customer long term and deals with it. The Malibu vinyl is easier to clean as oppose to the "silk" looking accent vinyl MC uses.

The whole "tub deck design is stronger" claims is just flat out wrong and unproven. The MXZ or new X-30 is no stronger than the 23LSV...no data to back it up at least. One disadvantage to tub decks is that they have a better chance of gel coat cracking. When a boat flexes (and they all do) during a double up for example, the floor will flex as the hull flexes and could cause cracks. It's more about what feels comfortable to you and your family.

Don't expect the pricing (any brand) to go down. Manufactures are doing all they can to hold them steady. Since resin, gel coat and many other necessary raw materials come from oil...it's not getting cheaper. Emission regulations and permits are a pain and expensive. And remember, there are less than 10,000 boats a year built in the ski boat niche world wide. There isn't much room for new players and companies have to make a profit on low volumes.

The x-30 has more storage space just by the fact the hull is deeper but you will sacrifice handling to get it. Maybe it's worth it to some but I was amazed when the 23LSV turned better than an X-2. This sold me and made me look over some of the small hardware differances that others have mentioned...they are insignificant as they have cause me no problems.
Old    Craig Emerton (craigtxmc)      Join Date: Oct 2008       02-29-2012, 9:02 PM Reply   
OK, I can't resist one last input.... Guys, how can "L" brackets be just as strong as 1/4" fiberglass? Man, just remove all cushions from each boat and start pulling and pushing on the interior of the boats and tell me again that there is no data to back it up.. You can pull as hard as you can on the MC interior bases and see no movement. Try the same with the 23 LSV or VLX, etc.. I haven't tried the new MXZ, but I would assume it is more MC like as far as strength. That's a big plus and movement in the right direction for Malibu in my opinion.
This is all friendly, but come on guys... Sure, I give the Malibu the handling (turning) award but they are NOT as strong seat base wise. It's funny that many keep saying there isn't proof of that. Just go dig around in them and it will present itself.

Perhaps they sew the seat bases down with that "Gortex" thread? Just kidding, but it's fun to return the favor when people quote you...

I think Chris said it best.... Demo Demo Demo. They're all great boats.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       03-01-2012, 4:12 AM Reply   
Quality is in the imagination of the owner or poster.
Old    Greg Miller (malibu23lsv)      Join Date: Feb 2012       03-01-2012, 4:54 AM Reply   
Craig, no hard feelings here. I will agree that the fiberglass seat bases are more rigid than the assembled seat bases. What I was refering to was the overall structural integrety of the construction (hull to deck) as there is a misconception that manufactures are moving towards tub deck construction because of strength alone when it is actually for manufacturability more than anything. MC and Malibu both glass in a 1/4" wall steel tubing walk thru brace to stiffen the deck to prevent flex. Without that brace, both brands would buckle at the walk thru...tub deck or not.

I'm not planning on getting the last word on this...so I look forward to your comment.
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-01-2012, 7:14 AM Reply   
My question is, has anyone ever heard of broken seat bases being an issue with malibus? If not then it's a moot point. Just because ones stronger it means nothing if the other doesn't have issues. If one is stronger thanthe other, but the other holds up fine it really doesn't matter.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       03-01-2012, 7:29 AM Reply   
Carry on discussing which NON-FAILURE pieces of a boat are better..








Old    Mark (FunkyBunch)      Join Date: Jun 2011       03-01-2012, 7:57 AM Reply   
Jeff

I see that bottom picture and wish that was the painted on suit.
Old    Craig Emerton (craigtxmc)      Join Date: Oct 2008       03-01-2012, 8:18 AM Reply   
I slept on this last night and realized that there's absolutely no reason for me to keep cheerleading for MC. At the end of the day they are just boats. And each boat has it's strengths and weaknesses. You know it's funny, because I know better. I understand completely that people don't want to hear sales guys bash and I fell in the trap. Sometimes you try to make a few points and the next thing you know it's bashing..

It's going to be 81 degrees in Dallas today so things are looking great! Enjoy your day fellas...
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-01-2012, 8:21 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigtxmc View Post
I slept on this last night and realized that there's absolutely no reason for me to keep cheerleading for MC. At the end of the day they are just boats. And each boat has it's strengths and weaknesses. You know it's funny, because I know better. I understand completely that people don't want to hear sales guys bash and I fell in the trap. Sometimes you try to make a few points and the next thing you know it's bashing..

It's going to be 81 degrees in Dallas today so things are looking great! Enjoy your day fellas...
It happens to the best of us. Even us non sales guys fall into these traps on here.

Lucky ass, it's only in the 50's in Denver
Old    Tom (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       03-01-2012, 1:44 PM Reply   
If I were in your shoes, I would get whichever boat includes more accessories (stereo, fancy leds, lcd screens, etc...) for the same price. At the end of the day, those are probably the only things you'll notice as being significantly better.

As others have stated, the fact that one windshield is built better is irrelevant. Neither windshield is likely to EVER fail. Same thing with the construction of the floor.

You will never finish a day on the lake saying, "boy, sure am glad I paid an extra $10k to make sure I can do a pull up on my windsheild".

Though, you certainly might say, "I sure am glad I got the boat with the better stereo at the same price... that lake party ROCKED".
Old    Brett Treiber (pc_sledge)      Join Date: Jan 2006       03-01-2012, 3:18 PM Reply   
It's all personal preference. I wanted to buy a 247, so I test drove one and was blown away by the handling. Got behind it and the wake was a deal breaker for me. Ended up buying an X45. I'm sure there are just as many guys out there who test drove an X45 and hated it, so they opted for the 247. While there is no dispute that Kate Upton is a pretty girl, not my type. To each his own.
Old    Hugh Jas (malibupilot)      Join Date: Nov 2005       03-02-2012, 9:03 AM Reply   
I can tell you from experience, that you could be right about the windsheileds in the BU, mine got out of alignment quickly... after some pounding on big chop.

The dealer experience that I have heard from people in SoCal regarding MC is pretty negative.... kind of a 'better than you' attitude. Malibu service guys have always been helpful... even if they do charge me an arm and a leg for yearly service. :-(
Old    RPenner (pennery)      Join Date: Jul 2006       03-02-2012, 9:49 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pc_sledge View Post
It's all personal preference. I wanted to buy a 247, so I test drove one and was blown away by the handling. Got behind it and the wake was a deal breaker for me. Ended up buying an X45. I'm sure there are just as many guys out there who test drove an X45 and hated it, so they opted for the 247. While there is no dispute that Kate Upton is a pretty girl, not my type. To each his own.
You must be Gay.










J/K
Old    L W (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       03-02-2012, 10:05 AM Reply   
Hey Brett, What didn't you like about the 247 wake? I love that boat too. What made the X-45 wake better?
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       03-02-2012, 10:22 AM Reply   
Catrinel Menghia = Fiat commercial girl. Someone not at work post pics!
Old    Willy T (willyt)      Join Date: May 2010       03-02-2012, 1:29 PM Reply   
im an MC guy

I would take a malibu in a heartbeat kate came with it. hell... i'd even take a mooba.
Old    Brett Treiber (pc_sledge)      Join Date: Jan 2006       03-02-2012, 1:46 PM Reply   
Yes, now we are talking. The Fiat chick is smoking hot. When i rode behind the 247, the salesman could not get the wake to clean up at all. I also thought it was super wide for how small it was. However, I think the salesman was a huge douche bag which probably had something to do with it. I agree with Paul...pics of the Fiat girl are being called for.
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-02-2012, 1:56 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pc_sledge View Post
Yes, now we are talking. The Fiat chick is smoking hot. When i rode behind the 247, the salesman could not get the wake to clean up at all. I also thought it was super wide for how small it was. However, I think the salesman was a huge douche bag which probably had something to do with it. I agree with Paul...pics of the Fiat girl are being called for.
I've heard about some issues wiht the 247 wake cleaning up, big boats typically take higher speeds to clean up. The 23ft doesn't have that issue. Malibu wakes are typically pretty wide
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            03-02-2012, 2:27 PM Reply   
Her??

Old    Craig Emerton (craigtxmc)      Join Date: Oct 2008       03-02-2012, 5:40 PM Reply   
I'm pretty sure she prefers MasterCraft.
Attached Images
 
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            03-02-2012, 5:50 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigtxmc View Post
I'm pretty sure she prefers MasterCraft.
We all know that the smokin hotties ride in Nautiques duh
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       03-03-2012, 6:24 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjh1669 View Post
I've heard about some issues wiht the 247 wake cleaning up, big boats typically take higher speeds to clean up. The 23ft doesn't have that issue. Malibu wakes are typically pretty wide
Wide wakes separate the men from the boys.
Old    Ktrent (ktrent)      Join Date: Jul 2010       03-04-2012, 7:39 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattwake View Post
I agree that the wakeboat industry as a whole has gone bananas. I mean, yes, every industry is going to have cost increases, and stuff is going to get nicer and nicer, as more creature comforts are thrown in as standard options. What's bizzare, is that the hulls of these wakeboats and motors really don't change that often, yet we see huge yearly increases in prices due to added technology, redesigned aesthetic features, like vinyl layouts, cupholders, etc. I understand MC went to Ilmore, Bu added the CTSV motor, etc. etc. But apart from that, when you price a nicely equipped vlx, 230, xstar, etc., with the same options that were available 3 years ago, the price difference is nuts. The probem is that the consumer just nuts up and continues to pay whatever they can finance year after year. I'm wondering at what point does the market shift so that there is a rejection across the board of these astronomical prices? Maybe when gas is $5 a gallon, and people can't afford the $500/month note on a 15 year loan. Who knows?

Heck, even MB, Tige and Supra, which in my neck of the woods were always viewed as budget friendly alternatives to the big 3, are creaping up into the same 65-90k price range. Even Axis and Moomba's prices are steadily going up - while perhapse not at the same rate. It's just crazy to me to look back and remember what I paid for my '02 XStar back in '04, and what I paid for my '08 230 in '07, and think that if I added both of those prices together, I still wouldn't be able to buy a loaded '12 230 or '12 X25 today.

Here we are talking about how one brand is built better than another, how one brand uses higher quality hinges, etc. As consumers, we are drinking the industry kookaid with gusto. How expensive are hinges anyway? What's next, diamond encrusted steering wheels?

Hell, ALL of these boats are overbuilt. Who needs a friggin supercharged dry sump racecar motor in their wakeboat that tops out at 45mph? Who needs a tower that raises and lowers itself? Who needs 9 different touch screens and rider specific presets? What we need is a tower that works, a hull that produces a sick wake, a platform that enhances a surf wave, a faster ballast system, a more fuel efficient motor, a swim platform that folds so it's easier to store a boat, a friggin better cooler option.

Ok, sorry. Rant over. I'm going to google image search Kate Upton.
I could not have said it better. I traded every couple years back in the day of getting a great top of the line boat for between 30-45 grand. Now I just can't seem to pull the trigger on a 80+ grand boat. It just doesn't make since. Trading in a boat and writing a check doesn't bother me, but trading in a damn good boat and signing a note for more than the trade in value is crazy. I am in the construction industry and our cost of work has doubled in the past 10 years but our profit sure has not. I think its time the boat companies have a reality check. Vehicles have increases as well but not near as much as boats. Never the less I am still taking my ass to the boat show to look at the new x30. Lol we are all crazy.
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       03-04-2012, 4:29 PM Reply   
this thread turned out to be so nice...world peace
Old    Bu Coo (brett564)      Join Date: Jul 2006       03-04-2012, 10:42 PM Reply   
235!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Old    L W (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       03-05-2012, 10:46 AM Reply   
Well I can honetly say I didn't expect this thread to blow up the way it did. I also didn't expect the decision to be so tough. I thought choosing a new boat would be fun and easy. At least it's been fun.

I just want to be very clear, from the start both dealers have been nothing but professional to deal with. Both have gone above and beyond to try to make me happy with my decision. I would reccomend both dealers to anyone looking for a boat. You can't go wrong with a Mastercraft or a Malibu! I know a lot of people have the opinions and loves and hates but I really loved both of these boats. In the end it was a decision to pick the boat that was best for the family.

We have our final prices and are finalizing the deal today. Once everything is signed off, I will post some pics of the boat and a breakdown of why we made the decision. I really appreciate all the input people put into the thread, there are a lot of WW folks who are very passionate about boats, and it shows. There is always going to be some "bashing" or "mine is better then yours" comments, but if you filter through them you can see that both boat brands are quality, neither are inferior, that's for sure. Anyone in their right mind would be happy with an X-30 or an LSV.

In typical Canadian fashion, we got a foot of snow last night. I guess I can go spend the afternoon shoveling snow and dreaming about summer in a new boat!
Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       03-05-2012, 12:40 PM Reply   
Is it typical Canadian fashion to leave an entire website hanging?!?! Holy hell man, out with it!!
Old    Brandon Zubke (bzubke1)      Join Date: Feb 2010       03-05-2012, 2:42 PM Reply   
Are you custom ordering or picking from the dealer's inventory? If custom ordering you might have just as hard of a decision picking colors. I know we did.
Old    RPenner (pennery)      Join Date: Jul 2006       03-05-2012, 5:54 PM Reply   
Can't wait to check it out Levi.

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