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Old    Scott R (ScottR)      Join Date: Aug 2011       02-16-2012, 6:44 AM Reply   
Hey guys, I know this isn't always received well on these threads but gonna just post it anyway because I need some help. I am wanting to sell my boat to get another. I have posted it everywhere on the net (onlyinboards, boat trader and WW) Have had a few calls about her over the winter but nothing solid. (3 calls total)

I want to sell it in the next 3 weeks and just don't know where else to post. I want to order another one and don't want to cut it so close to boating season. I feel like I am asking a solid price and she is a gorgous boat.

Any thoughts or any leads that looking for 2012 Epic 23V with 54 hours.


WW, sorry if this isn't the place to post this, but hoping someone out there may just be looking for this boat or know someone who is. Thanks

Scott
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       02-16-2012, 6:52 AM Reply   
Looks like you've covered the bases.March-April is much better time to sell a used boat.Although yours is hardly used.Usually what keeps a boat from selling is condition,color or price.With price being the end determining factor.Have you looked at average resale figures?
Old    Scott R (ScottR)      Join Date: Aug 2011       02-16-2012, 7:10 AM Reply   
Condition is almost perfect (one minor scratch needs buffing about 1" long on gunnell)

Color - Black and Silver, very sharp looking

Price - No resale figure really since it is a 2012 and an Epic. Just not that many around. I think it is priced to steal, but still alot of money.
Old    Tuneman (tuneman)      Join Date: Mar 2002       02-16-2012, 8:19 AM Reply   
Epic boats are virtually unknown to the majority. If you want it to sell, you're gonna have to price it a lot lower that you would like.
Old    Scott R (ScottR)      Join Date: Aug 2011       02-16-2012, 8:22 AM Reply   
Tune, not sure I am with you on that one. I sold my 2011 last year at this time for a solid price to both of us. I think this boat is much better and should be in same "boat" so to speak. It is priced fair I believe, and you are correct that Epic's aren't known around the majority but one buyer is all someone needs. Just waiting on that one guy!
Old    Justin (jrw160)      Join Date: Oct 2006       02-16-2012, 8:35 AM Reply   
If you want to make sure you sell it in the next 3 weeks, you are probably going to have to lower your price quite a bit. It seems like it's tough to move expensive used boats in the winter. I think most of the winter shoppers are either looking for offseason deals or ordering new boats.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       02-16-2012, 8:38 AM Reply   
Unfortunately Scott you just need to lower the price or wait until closer to summer. If you wan tto sell it in the next 2 or 3 weeks lower the price a grand every 3 or 4 days. At some point it will be too good of price for someone to pass up. Obviously the price you listed isn't a "great" deal or someone would of swooped it up by now. You may have sold your 2011 quickly but you might have just gotten lucky. Assuming yours is the 2012 for 62k the problem is there are too many options out there for the 60k you are asking. You can get a brand new MB 21 or 23 for less then you are asking, a loaded Axis A22, probably a loaded up XLV or LSV Moomba. These boats also appeal to the average user more then a basically non existant brand like Epic.

The flat out truth is that Epics are funny looking, not widely known and are pretty much geared towards the 100% hardcore rider which make up less then 5% of the potential boat buyers pool.

List it for less.
Old    Scott R (ScottR)      Join Date: Aug 2011       02-16-2012, 8:39 AM Reply   
maybe true, but I can keep it as well, just would like to sell. Thanks for the input all of you.
Old    Scott R (ScottR)      Join Date: Aug 2011       02-16-2012, 8:42 AM Reply   
Brett, Agreed!

I am at $58,500 as it sits today. Won't go any lower as I don't HAVE to sell in 3 weeks. If I wait, I won't be able to order the 2013 and have it all summer. So that is the trade off.

You are correct in the hardcore rider part. These boats are geared to those types for sure, however we use it as a family boat and honestly it is the best family boat around in my opinion. Again all opinion and I appreciated all the thoughts. It is exactly what I am looking to hear. Just hoping someone out there knows of someone wanting to order a '12 from Epic and instead i will give them a 12 now without waiting. Here is to hoping!!
Old    rod (rodltg2)      Join Date: Oct 2005       02-16-2012, 8:58 AM Reply   
You did not mention Ebay. Its expensive but it has worked great for me in the past. Also the obvious: Craigslist. Post it in multiple cities in your area. Since Epic is unknown to most, make sure its listed or tagged, keywords, so that buyers searching for other brands come across yours. Canada has always been a good market too.
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       02-16-2012, 11:55 AM Reply   
Scott - what is different with the new model? I'm just curious as to why you want to sell a 2012 to buy another one.
Old    Nauti 210 (brett33)      Join Date: Apr 2011       02-16-2012, 12:14 PM Reply   
^^ curious as well...

wondering if it's because of the "fit and finish being substandard" since it was the first 2012 off the line.
You acknowledged the fit and finish problems and even went on to say in this thread, you think they "rushed this boat"

http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=788033
Old    Bruizza (bruizza)      Join Date: May 2009       02-16-2012, 12:47 PM Reply   
Maybe it would be good to wait a bit longer and not get the very first 2013 off the line so you don't have the fit and finish issues. I understand the appeal of being the "first" but in the end it doesn't matter too much.
Old    Justin (jrw160)      Join Date: Oct 2006       02-16-2012, 1:10 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by brett33 View Post
Considering the reason for this thread, the last post in that thread is amusing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottRobinson View Post
I agree with the fact that since I am not filling ballast to ride the hours will go down some. I do surf alot however on this trip we didn't ...maybe 2 hours. So I assume surfing more and filling ballast to ride will decrease fuel.

The whole debate on the engine to me is pointless. (although I don't use ballast HA) Most people who would buy this boat would use the full ballast to ride so there for you would want the big engine to pull. Yes it is an expensive option but one that you just can't live without IMO. This still kicks the crap out of a Malibu, Mastercraft or anything else out there at what you get for the price. Where else can you get a 8.2 23' boat with 4000# of ballast with 16 WetSound speakers in the boat for $70k? And to boot it throws a serious wake for the serious rider or can throw a big wake for guys like me. To me that is why I bought it. BIG BOAT, nice stereo and I can sell it anytime for close to what I paid. There just aren't any out there. Unlike the big 3 where they are everywhere. Just my 2 cents.....

I know alot of people will hate this boat for the price or love it. I just fell in love with them and now am on my second one. Maybe in a year I will be in a 2013 and this will be for sale!! =)
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       02-16-2012, 3:36 PM Reply   
Some people just like to have a new boat every year.Others like a new car every year.If you can do that more power to you.Who are we to judge?How many people own a sportbike that can't even compete with amatuer road racers?You should be able to buy what you want.This is still america,right?
Old     (Brendon444)      Join Date: Jul 2011       02-16-2012, 3:41 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
Some people just like to have a new boat every year.Others like a new car every year.If you can do that more power to you.Who are we to judge?How many people own a sportbike that can't even compete with amatuer road racers?You should be able to buy what you want.This is still america,right?
To me I dont care how much money you have doesnt seem very smart. Each there own I guess.
Old    doug rose (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       02-16-2012, 3:55 PM Reply   
just trade it in, save the tax money, roll over the difference and be happy. Sometimes its just bad timing. good luck
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       02-16-2012, 3:57 PM Reply   
^^^ There is nothing "smart" about owning any boat no matter how often you replace it. LOL. But it's a bug we have all caught. If not, we wouldn't spend so much time on this forum.

I don't know Scott from Adam, but I'm guessing he's trying to sell the boat at/near what he paid for it. If he can pull that off every year, he has minimized/eliminated his downside. Notice how he says if he can't get $58K for it, he'll keep it. That's code for, "I paid $58-ish, if I can't sell for that I will keep it cuz I love Epic. But if I can manage to sell for what I paid, why not rinse and repeat with a 2013, yo!"
Old    Scott R (ScottR)      Join Date: Aug 2011       02-17-2012, 7:30 AM Reply   
Timmy and Nauti - The 2013 most likely won't be that much different if at all. I have actually done this 2 times before with boats. I bought in June (ish) the boat model coming and then sold it in the calendar year for basically a wash. I got to use the boat for a year and then sell it for about what I had in it. So DBC is correct. I believe that I am actually helping myself along with one other person out when I do this. I got a great deal because I have bought multiple boats from them. So why wouldn't I sell my 12 and get a 13 even if there are no differences?

For some reason people think that just because someone does something they may not do it is stupid or wrong. I don't have more money than sense, that isn't the case. In fact, I believe this to be quite the opposite. I am looking at this from a common sense approach. Someone out there gets a boat basically brand new (50+) hours each year and I get a new boat. Since I buy one every year from the same company I have gotten a heck of a steal from them on the price. Epic being small compared to the masses helps that because they don't have dealerships buying 20-30 boats a year. One guy (me) buying one every year they tend to take care of me. In turn, one lucky person gets a hell of a boat at my cost or just under and I got to use that boat for a year for basically nothing. Common sense says do it again.

I would love to "trade" it Doug but any dealership also has to make a profit and therefore won't give me what I want in trade value. They will give me $10k less so they can make a profit. Again solid business but I don't have to do that. So I thought take it to the people who wake board and wake surf. WW was a perfect fit.

Brenden - Unfortunately comments like yours chap me pretty bad. It's easy to sit behind a screen and say things like "it's not very smart" without knowing any facts and just using a blanket statement to throw your 2 cents in. Why do we feel (especially at WW right now) that attacking people is a good idea? I just dont get it.

Bruizza - Yes I agree the fit and finish of this particular boat wasn't up to their standards. I have disclosed that to anyone looking at my boat. Honestly, the one thing that gets me and reason for saying that was one cushion just sticks out about half and inch compared to the rest. Annoying, yes but it isn't a huge deal. The other "issue" is the SeaDek on the swim platform wasn't cut right and on the edges one side is about a quarter inch from the edge while the other is about half and inch. Basically not perfect centered but again whatever. That's the "fit and finish" issues. Do I think they rushed this? YES! I know they did. They had a deadline to meet from me and they met it. They had too, because of a boat trip I was taking and needed a boat. They made it work for me. That is why I am here NOW so they have more time to get the 2013 ready if I get this one sold. That is the reason for the 3 week deadline. I wanted to order by March 1-15 so June 1 would be no issue at all to have my new one.

Hope this helps all to understand why I posted this. If you think I am stupid for doing this, having an Epic in the first place, spending too much money, or any other smart remark i would prefer if you would just keep it to yourself. Hopefully that doesn't kill the thread but who knows.

Thanks for all the positive comments from those of you that did. Much appreciated and I enjoyed the banter to help me figure out what I should be doing. Thanks again.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       02-17-2012, 7:50 AM Reply   
Scott, does your state collect sales tax? If they do and it is somewhere close to 10% you could save around 5k in sales tax by trading it in. My point is that if you trade it in for 10k less then what you want or need to sell it at it is really like selling it for 5k less. If your state doesn't have sales tax then this doesn't matter obviously. Another thing to try if you have sales tax is see if the boat dealer will run the sale through as a trade even though you find the buyer and settle on a price. We did this a couple times at Copes when I worked there to help the new boat buyer get rid of their boat.
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       02-17-2012, 7:52 AM Reply   
The only reason I was asking is I thought maybe they were finally making some changes for 2013. The boat hasn't changed much at all since 2007, was hoping that they were finally doing something new besides changing the seadek and stereo.
Old    doug rose (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       02-17-2012, 7:55 AM Reply   
i agree with the loss, but lets say you have 6month of winter, like here, on an average payment of 600 a month, (thats aprox a 60k boat for 10yr) then your tax difference, here it is 7% sales tax. 3600 in payments and 4200 in tax, you are just about the same price as selling outright and not dealing with the masses. Plus it gives your dealer a really clean boat and the opportunity to make profit again. I think it makes the relationship better, and you can usually get your dealer to work around the couple grand. Anyways, thats what i have been doing, maybe that will help you get the new ride and help your dealer as well. Good luck
Old    doug rose (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       02-17-2012, 7:57 AM Reply   
oh, i always trade mine in around oct, when the dealer is placing there order, they pay off my boat ,put it on there floor plan and order a new boat. Then pick it up in april before the seaon starts and at that time get a new loan, the tax difference caries over and i dont have a payment for 6months, nor insurance. The dealer can then work on selling my boat all winter, really works well and it usually helps the dealer get a better volume discount on there order for the new boats.
Old    Scott R (ScottR)      Join Date: Aug 2011       02-17-2012, 7:58 AM Reply   
Brett - Yeah I have thought of that and actually tried it last year but to no avail. You are correct in your thought on that sales tax issue. I may need to consider that further and see about that, problem is Epic doesn't have "dealers" at least not near me. So getting another Epic would be hard doing it that way I think. I could be wrong and maybe the dealer would buy it and help with sales tax?? Hmmmm wheels spinning now....


timmy- I would say the 11 and 12 were much different even though on the surface they don't look different. Engine, tower, stereo, SeaDek, were all different. That is quite alot for one year. I think they are still "young" and still innovative just they only really have one boat out. 23v although the 21v came out I think last year. I have talked about a few changes to them that I would like to see. Doubtful they will happen anytime soon but they are cool about listening to customers thoughts and experiences.
Old    Scott R (ScottR)      Join Date: Aug 2011       02-17-2012, 8:03 AM Reply   
Doug - I like it.... have to do that next year! Very smart
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       02-17-2012, 8:03 AM Reply   
[QUOTE=ScottR;1732518]Brett - Yeah I have thought of that and actually tried it last year but to no avail. You are correct in your thought on that sales tax issue. I may need to consider that further and see about that, problem is Epic doesn't have "dealers" at least not near me. So getting another Epic would be hard doing it that way I think. I could be wrong and maybe the dealer would buy it and help with sales tax?? Hmmmm wheels spinning now....

QUOTE]

Basically I believe you would find a buyer for the boat and basically they would buy the boat from the dealer the same day you trade it in. They would have a some time and paperwork costs for but I don't think it could be much otherwise we wouldn't have done it. With no Epic dealers around that is going to be tough since you are suppose to pay the tax in your own state I believe when you license the boat. Then again with the BS new "streamlined sales tax" approach the IRS is doing not sure how that works because tax is suppose to be collected in the zip+4 that the transaction happened.
Old     (Brendon444)      Join Date: Jul 2011       02-17-2012, 8:38 AM Reply   
Sorry I was not trying to offend you by that comment. I agree that many ppl think owning a boat in general is a waste of money but we do it because we love boating and is worth it to us. I just thought if the boat was virtually the same I didnt see the benefit of getting a year newer but further reading I see you explained your reasoning. Good luck with your sale and purchase.
Old    Bruizza (bruizza)      Join Date: May 2009       02-17-2012, 9:16 AM Reply   
If you could work out a trade in deal it might be beneficial. Let's assume sales tax is 7% where you live. Let's say your new boat is 60k. You will pay $4200 in sales tax on the new boat. Now let's say the dealership gives you 55k on trade. So now you Only sales tax on the difference in trade vs new which is 5k. That comes out to $350 in sales tax. Add that to the $3500 you lost on not selling it for $58,500 and you are still only at $3850 so you saved a few hundred bucks and get your new boat in time.
Old    Scott R (ScottR)      Join Date: Aug 2011       02-17-2012, 9:36 AM Reply   
http://www.nadaguides.com/Boats/2011...dard-Equipment

Not sure if this will work but NADA doesn't have 2012s listed. So here is a 2011 with the 8.1 not the 8.2 ($12,000 option now)

Suggested Retail price is $66, 204
Ave retail - $63,200
Low retail - $55,385

With it being a year newer and the 8.2L I really think someone should (maybe I am hoping) snatch this up at my pricing.

Again this is a 2011 on NADA. Boat is a 2012.....thinking that should add $5k?

Last edited by ScottR; 02-17-2012 at 9:38 AM. Reason: add more
Old    Nicolas Kohler (monkey_butt)      Join Date: Sep 2011       02-17-2012, 12:35 PM Reply   
Scott - had you listed yours back in November for around 55 - 57 when I sold my 2007 Epic I would have jumped on yours w/o hesitation as the sales tax would not have applied to me in MN when it is a private sale ... and you're competing against the 2012 anniversary edition now as well which is offered for 68K on onlyinboards ...

Just in case - I did end up selling my 2007 via ebay - took me 2 attempts but it's not that expensive as people may think - you're not paying a percentage on the selling price but actually a flat fee of $200 if I remember correctly - and at least that tells you if you have interested buyers. In all honesty - onlyinboards didn't many leads and none worth it - I got a lot more interest when posting it locally on craigslist but as said earlier - ebay attracts even more people.

Hope it works out for you - and one more thing - as long as the Canadian $ is that strong - you also have a better chance to sell it north of our borders - this is where my boat ended up going and most of the leads came from there anyway.
Old    Scott R (ScottR)      Join Date: Aug 2011       02-20-2012, 7:11 AM Reply   
I need to go ahead and try Ebay then I guess. Maybe even Craigslist in Canada. Just hoping someone here may know some person that may want one.

Thanks
Old    Scott R (ScottR)      Join Date: Aug 2011       03-08-2012, 10:23 AM Reply   
Well, mine didn't sell. I had a guy from Canada looking at it and the one in Florida that is the Anniversary edition. He decided to spend more money and get that one. He was an awesome guy and I wish him nothing but love with his new ride. I am going to go on my last week here of having her for sale. I think I would still be fine in 2-3 weeks but not gonna put the time in for those weeks. One more week.

If anyone knows of anyone looking let them know....have it listed in lots of places so hopefully I will get another great guy like "B" (guy I talked with from Canada) and can sell her and order another.

Thanks guys for all the help.

Scott

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