Darrin Shapiro arrested. I guess wakeboarding doesn't pay the bills after all.

@trigo I never said "laugh", I just stated everyone most likely thought the same thing. Whether they found it to be comical was entirely up to them.

Woah, this thread has only been around for 24 hours and it's all ready out of hand! This thread is gonna top JBs tomcat thread in no time

Originally Posted by SamIngram

Telling the truth is not slander...

And how do we know what you are saying is even true? You use a pseudonym on ww. So basically, you are a coward who is throwing ridiculous accusations out there. I honestly dont even care if they are true or not, i just think it is pathetic and wrong to do it in the manner you are doing it.

Watching national geographic channel and right now drugs inc is on talking about the pain killer epidemic! Non the less they're talking about pain clinics in Florida! And I was cleaning out my garage today and found my O'Brien demented (Shapiro model) wake board! small world...

Had a good friend take his lfe because of an Oxy addiction.
Currently watching someone else fall apart because of the same crap. All prescribed by "pain centers" total bull****. They keep their clients hooked on the crap because it pays the bills. Healing them does not.

I cant even put into words properly how sad this makes me.. I thought it was a joke or a hoax..

Shapiro was always my favorite of the legends of wakeboarding and I always felt he deserved more recognition, still and always will be the biggest balls to the walls rider ever.

Now his legacy will be tainted forever by this.. ah sometimes life sucks

Samingram actually you are walking a very thin line with regard to slander. He is right in the accusation. I almost said it yesterday too. You can't be doing that. It's illegal. Whether or not it's true matters very little. With no 'proof' you could easily be lying and nobody would know. Look slander up. Then defamation.

Also I second the comment that there's a lot of ignorance in this thread. So much that I don't know where to start. If I had to pick just one though, it's the boldness around 'well I didn't like the pain pills so I don't get what the point is.' Good for you, it sounds like you are one of those people who can take medications as prescribed. Unfortunately for addicts and alcoholics, things are not that easy. Modern medecine states that addiction IS a disease. While I agree that it's a 'choice' to pick up that first drink or pill, what follows is often not based in choice.

But that brings me back to my point yesterday. Since we have an unflattering mug shot to go along with the story, I'd estimate that 25% - 30% of casual readers here and on Facebook (which is honestly so irritating and lazy - FB, youtube, imdb ignorance is just the worst) are simply assuming Shapiro's trouble is over his own usage, and one again that is not the point of the story. Kind of astounding.

Edit: User Samingram banned? Looks like it.

I Hope Sam didn't get banned. Maybe his statement about randy was too blunt but the rest of the stuff sounds true. If you guys are gonna say he's wrong for saying anything then you're all enablers. If these guys didn't want it getting out then perhaps they shouldn't do those activities blatantly in infront of the public.

Originally Posted by wakerpunk

I Hope Sam didn't get banned. Maybe his statement about randy was too blunt but the rest of the stuff sounds true. If you guys are gonna say he's wrong for saying anything then you're all enablers. If these guys didn't want it getting out then perhaps they shouldn't do those activities blatantly in infront of the public.

Not with you on that. Gone are the days when someone can sit back and post anonymously, or at least mostly anonymously. To that end slander, libel and defamation are all crimes and if he was banned for that reason then I wholly support the decision. Banter is banter, but his comments were really inappropriate.

Libel:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libel

Slander/Defamation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slander

Hey erik just because addiction is a disease doesn't mean someone cant do something about it. You're sittin there like addicts dont have a choice, everyone has a choice, its just if they want to do something about it or just blame there problems on something else.

+1 with Henry and Sam. If you CHOOSE not to try drugs, then you CANNOT become addicted. No possible way. Some people choose not to take pain killers after surgery because they don't like how F-ed up they feel. So wait? they made the choice to suffer through pain to heal instead of taking dangerous meds? i thought the doctor FORCED them to take it....

I think you people are missing the point. Its about Darren. He knew what he was doing. When these mills perscribe hundreds of pills intened for cancer patients to one person with a knee ach a month then drug test them to make sure they are taking them (and they do) they know what is going on. There is nobody in this world who can take the amount of opiates they perscribe and not become physcially addicted. This is not a matter of what is addiction and not a mater of somone being a good wakeboarder. It is a matter of one person preying on someone elses weakness for their own personal profit.

^^
What he said. If this is all true. Shapiro was feeding habits and getting big money just like any other drug dealer. Now he will pay for it.

Dang, did Sam get banned?

I always liked Shapiro, but if he is guilty of the charges, he is scum. I don't care what impact he has had on the sport, if this stuff is true, think of all of the lives he has destroyed.

Don't worry, Sam will be back with a new username soon

Had to watch Retrospect last night. Loved hearing Darin talk about his contest strategy " I go out there and ride easier and easier. There's not even a mobious, its NOT NEEDED!" haha

RIP Sam Ingram

No clue about the real behind the scenes story, but Darin was a GREAT person, with a great business sense and built for his retirement way back when. So not sure how all this went down, but he is a smart guy. Money can corrupt even the best person though, especially lots of it. I am not forgiving anything or saying it's ok, but just a reality.

Originally Posted by SamIngram

What are you saying? I will become a drug addict even if I don't do drugs? Hmm... okay, thanks!

If the answer was simply not to use the drugs then the best solution is not to sell them.

Originally Posted by SamIngram

Yes, I am sure it is not Darin or Darren's fault... He is a good guy and has obviously been framed by the corrupt pharmaceutical industry and the FDA in Florida!

And this is why we have zero personal accountability in our society, because people won't hold their peers accountable...Why hold yourself accountable if your peers won't. It is never anyone's fault, and no one should be accountable for their mistakes! They are mistakes after all...

Why does industry have no accountability in your eyes? The pharmaceuticals know how many doses of these drugs they make and where they are distributed.

I know this might seem like a pretty callous thing to say, but this would make a great documentary.

Originally Posted by captain_vilfo

Hey erik just because addiction is a disease doesn't mean someone cant do something about it. You're sittin there like addicts dont have a choice, everyone has a choice, its just if they want to do something about it or just blame there problems on something else.

What you don't understand is that when the addiction is severe these people would choose suicide over quitting. If you are one of those people who are resistance to addiction then you should thank your lucky stars because there are many factors in your life that contribute to that. I have no desire to take these kind of drugs and I don't have an addictive personality. IOW, I'm a happy well adjusted healthy person, and for that I feel privileged. I wouldn't want to spend a day in the shoes of people with addictions.

I have family members who do have problems and their problems didn't start with drugs. There was suffering from other factors that precipitated doctors prescribing addictive drugs. And there are many doctors who don't care what's happening in their patient's lives. The patient doctor relationship is confidential even though the family members know far more than the doctors about what's going on. But the doctors don't want to know. They want to make money writing prescriptions.

The bottom line is that someone who's been addicted and recovered knows the real truth. They are the one's who did the hard time to get back on track. And they are far more likely to want to help other addicted people than blow them off as having a lack of personal responsibility.

A great documentary?

It'd be great to see someone profit from his greed, just the same as how he profited from his customer's struggles.

"Kauai Chronic quietly closed down last month. The closure occurred a week or two after a group of local high school students staged a peaceful picketing demonstration outside the clinic protesting its existence in their community."

Hooray for the local kids. Darrin could have easily parlayed his earned money and fame into something positive and productive. Its a shame he became a drug dealer.

He was/is a great wakeboarder.

Who cares, it doesn't even really matter.

His current career choice was to sell drugs, and do it illegally through means that look legal. He made a LOT of money off of it and hurt many many people while doing it He's scum to do that. We aren't talking about selling weed to a couple of friends. We are talking thousands and thousands of pills to addicts and doing it as a "business" with the sole goal of profits. I hope these guys do time for it.

I don't think a guy like that deserves "respect" just cause he could ride a wakeboard well, you can repect his riding but the man.... not so much.
There are many many other ways to make money that don't revolve around selling drugs.

Originally Posted by ttrigo

And how do we know what you are saying is even true? You use a pseudonym on ww. So basically, you are a coward who is throwing ridiculous accusations out there. I honestly dont even care if they are true or not, i just think it is pathetic and wrong to do it in the manner you are doing it.

His name is Ryan and he lives in AZ..

Unlike what he did to Randall Harris - I will *not* put all of his personal information on blast. He hides behing monikers and false screen names but he is VERY easy to find.

He and I had it out in another thread. He thought he was really "cute" by posting all kinds of stuff that he googled about me - since I use my real name as my user name here on WakeWorld. He was living under the impression that his screen names were enough to hide his true identity - but they were not.

Although he put a LOT of my information into a thread once while he was being a jerk - I chose the high road and did not do the same for him. I know quite a bit abou thim - but I am an adult and I realize that someone talking big behind a screen name on the internet shouldn't be messed with in real life. We all have jobs and families and business to attend to. We don't need this forum turned into another one where people are messed with in real life based on their statements behind a screen name here.

Ryan didn't make very good choices in the thread he and I were trolling each other in and quite frankly - I don't appreciate him slandering Randall Harris here either. But for the second time - I will take the high road on this thread and not make his information public. I am 100% certain that he is lurking this thread. And that is assuming he doesnt' have a new screen name already.

Ryan - please be more cautious in the future. I know a lot of the stuff you do is "trolling" and most of it is in good fun - but there are people are plenty smart on the internet and could make a lot of trouble for you in your real life - particularly in your relatively "high profile" professional life. Use better judgement when talking about peoples personal lives here please. It would be appreciated. I don't care about your comments on Shapiro - but talking about Randall is over the line. You've been banned for it and that's fine - but if you mess with the wrong people it will go bad for you.



Back on topic - this sucks for the people of Florida. This is becoming a REAL problem in our country and I hope there are inititives to put an end to it.

Originally Posted by 501s

He was/is a great wakeboarder.

Who cares, it doesn't even really matter.

His current career choice was to sell drugs, and do it illegally through means that look legal. He made a LOT of money off of it and hurt many many people while doing it He's scum to do that. We aren't talking about selling weed to a couple of friends. We are talking thousands and thousands of pills to addicts and doing it as a "business" with the sole goal of profits. I hope these guys do time for it.

I don't think a guy like that deserves "respect" just cause he could ride a wakeboard well, you can repect his riding but the man.... not so much.
There are many many other ways to make money that don't revolve around selling drugs.

amen to all of this.

I feel sickened by this.I got introduced to Darin early 2008 and did work for him on a number of occasions. Once,ironically when they were renovating the premises for the clinic on Orange avenue. I met his family on numerous occasions and Darin became what I consider a friend and it was an honor to be invited to his induction at the Waterski Hall of Fame.Darin is a really likeable and a nice guy.People do crazy,stupid things for money so I am not going to judge him for this. The night my dogs were shot I was at the emergency vet,with my one dog hanging onto life by a thread, not realizing I had inadvertently left my wallet with the dogs leads in the field where they were shot. The vet would not treat my dogs without payment. I had known Darin for about 2 months and I called him in desperation.He gave his credit card details for payment without hesitation. You do not forget kindness like that. If I had the money I would pay his bail in a heartbeat.

It wasn't Harris that I thought he was slandering.

Originally Posted by juniorhawk

It wasnt Harris that I thought he was slandering.

Not the point.. He's the one I personally took offense too because he named names unrelated to the article on Shapiro and made claims that shouldn't be posted on public forums.

The only reason I said **** is because he thinks he's anonymous and runs his mouth all the time. That's fine - that's what the internet and anonymity are for. I get that. But when you start bringing up peoples personal **** on a forum where sponsors, fans etc are active - you cross the line.

Someone said he was talking big because he's "anonymous".. He's DEFINITELY not anonymous. That's all I'm saying. I don't care what people do or say here - it's a forum. But you keep someones name out of your mouth when it comes to their livlihood and how they put food on the table. I will make an assumption that "SamIngram" wouldn't like me or anyone else doing something publicly to tarnish his career. Randy Harris deserves that same respect.

Because it's in writing, pretty sure any defamation (if anything in this thread could be considered defamation) would be libel, not slander. Slander is spoken.

And we should all remember that truth is an absolute defense to a defamation claim. So if you have bros who saw you do the fish after too many whip-its back in the day, don't be expecting a big recovery when they spill to TMZ.

carry on.

UGH, who the hell cares about your petty libel argument? If you don't like the **** someone's talking, call them out and then move on.

Here's an earlier article from the same person at The Garden Island. It's from November and the first part of a series on drugs in Hawaii. It has a lot of quotes from Darin that kind of give his side of the story and reasoning for opening up pain clinics. It seems like a very well-done series of articles...

Part 1: Former ‘pill mill’ owner opens Kaua‘i clinic
Part 2: Pill abuse presents legal challenges
Part 3: From not enough to too much
Part 4: Future depends on foundation
Part 5: Education, enforcement, treatment

Jeff, I have never felt that "Ryan" was hiding here commenting anonymously, all you have to do is go over to find a pull in Arizona, and you could probably find people on here that have been on his boat, not a thing to do if you are trying to stay anonymous. also, I don't see a reason why he would be lying about Randy doing drugs, he probably was there with someone else who can vouch for him, he is pretty stupid anyway for doing drugs out in the open. Do not see why you back up the druggy "professional" wakeboarders and not the people on this site.

Originally Posted by joeshmoe

Jeff, I have never felt that "Ryan" was hiding here commenting anonymously, all you have to do is go over to find a pull in Arizona, and you could probably find people on here that have been on his boat, not a thing to do if you are trying to stay anonymous. also, I don't see a reason why he would be lying about Randy doing drugs, he probably was there with someone else who can vouch for him, he is pretty stupid anyway for doing drugs out in the open. Do not see why you back up the druggy "professional" wakeboarders and not the people on this site.

I'm pretty sure that Randall is not referred to as the "Godfather" of wakeboarding.

is it really important to bring up other riders' past drug use that probably has nothing to do w/ the topic of this thread?

Sam was not banned, but it does appear that he deleted his own profile.

Originally Posted by wakekat15

I'm pretty sure that Randall is not referred to as the "Godfather" of wakeboarding.

I thought that was Scott Byerly.

"Jummani was not arrested during the June raids, but his license was placed on emergency suspension..." - exerpt from Part 1: Former ‘pill mill’ owner opens Kaua‘i clinic

Interesting...

Let us also not forget that one of the most sacred principles of the American justice system is the concept that one is innocent until proven guilty. There appears to be a lot of judgment being passed based upon moral considerations, but very little discussion or consideration of whether or not what was done falls within the parameters of applicable law. While I don't condone the alleged wrongdoing, I do think it is important to maintain a balanced and objective analysis of the facts.

Time and process will ultimately determine whether the alleged actions, morally reprehensible as they may be, ultimately lead to a conviction of one of the most talented, influential and beloved athletes in the history of our sport. In the meantime, let's try to keep the discussion fair to those involved (or not involved) and based in relevant facts. Kudos to David Williams for actually providing meaningful information on the topic at hand.

Can anyone elaborate on what racketeering and money laundering encompass? They're not charging him with dispensing drugs from what I can tell, so what do those charges really mean?

Florida criminal defense attorney here. I presently defend a doctor who worked at a pill mill and also have a bunch of clients charged w/ possession and or trafficking. Florida is def. ground zero for oxys and they can wreck peoples lives.

That being said, outside of Florida there is a serious problem with under-prescribing pain meds for people that genuinely need them. Lots of doctors are afraid to prescribe most opiates given how heavy handed the DEA can be. Some good reads floating around the internet about how zealous the feds can get with these prosecutions (William Hurwitz, for example).

I have some theories as to why Florida is so different than the rest of the country, but things are changing and law enforcement is really starting to tighten up. IIRC our governor actually vetoed a bill that was going to create a database for those who doctor shop. Here in a few years, FL will be just the same as everywhere else.

^^David, racketeering is a really generic charge that is apparently really tough to defend. I've never even dealt with a RICO case, but it's my understanding alleges that defendant is part of a business (legal or illegal) that is functioning illegally. I would assume that this means selling products/services that are illegal, or selling legal products (i.e. alcohol) in illegal fashion. Also stuff like blackmail, fraud, bribery, gambling, etc tend to pop up in those types of cases.

DS probably can't get stuck with drug charges if he just owned the clinic because the LEO's probably can't show possession. And he's lucky that's the case because he would easily be looking at a 25 yr minimum mandatory.

"The RICO Act focuses specifically on racketeering, and it allows for the leaders of a syndicate to be tried for the crimes which they ordered others to do or assisted them, closing a perceived loophole that allowed someone who told a man to, for example, murder, to be exempt from the trial because they did not actually do it."

It is obviously this is very serious stuff. My experience is that the Feds don't go after small fish or cases that they have a chance of losing. He will probably plead to a lesser charge, but I would be surprised if he doesn't get at least a year or two in "Club Fed"

Originally Posted by Shooter

"The RICO Act focuses specifically on racketeering, and it allows for the leaders of a syndicate to be tried for the crimes which they ordered others to do or assisted them, closing a perceived loophole that allowed someone who told a man to, for example, murder, to be exempt from the trial because they did not actually do it."

It is obviously this is very serious stuff. My experience is that the Feds don't go after small fish or cases that they have a chance of losing. He will probably plead to a lesser charge, but I would be surprised if he doesn't get at least a year or two in "Club Fed"

He was picked up by FDLE though so it's likely a state case. State system is draconian in FL. 1 or 2 years is wishful thinking IMO.

1or 2 years?? I would think,given the charge sheet and the bail amount, they would bite your hand off for that.Mind you even one month in prison would be enough to affect the rest of your life.

Originally Posted by Shooter

He will probably plead to a lesser charge, but I would be surprised if he doesn't get at least a year or two in "Club Fed"

who is he going to throw under the bus to get said lesser charge, his dad? his brother? to get a plea deal, usually the prosecutors want you to give them something in return.

I see you watch Law and Order too, Joe.

As expected, I see this thread has turned to mostly speculation about a lot of stuff that none of us know anything about.

Originally Posted by jarrod

As expected, I see this thread has turned to mostly speculation about a lot of stuff that none of us know anything about.

AMEN.
I wish I could leave it at that. I can't. Please know that simply put I agree 100% with what you said C.I.E. JRod.. All I know is that placing blame around addiction is wild and unpredictable. Blame the addict? Blame the supply? How about everyone? Noone? Who knows. I sure as hell don't have an answer that I'm 100% comfortable with.
Shapiro has always been really polarizing. He's one of my sports heroes but I am not surprised to see the line of supporters/defenders coming up much shorter than the... other line.

Originally Posted by jarrod

I see you watch Law and Order too, Joe.

yeah but you'd be amazed where else i learned that stuff.

Total BS--easy target for the DEA to make theselves look good.

Sorry, I need to get glasses. I meant to say "TOTAL BS!!! Another ploy for the DEA to make themselves look good.

Make no mistake, these pill mills aren't doing their patients any favors pushing this highly addictive substances to their patients. Even general practitioners are too quick to push these drugs, after my last back injury my dr. was prescribing me methadone and hydrocodone without even offering physical therapy or other treatment modalities. Instead they get a quick fix and an addiction to go along with it. You can and will get addicted when you take these substances at regular intervals for more than a few weeks at a time. Unless your just occasionally taking 5mg of oxycodone. These pill mills are pushing 40,60,90mg of oxycontin, the sustained time released opioid agonist.

edit: Yes there are patients that can benefit from opioids, hell I wouldn't have been able to work last summer without them, but they should be an adjunct to physical therapy and other alternatives.

"Sorry, I need to get glasses. I meant to say "TOTAL BS!!! Another ploy for the DEA to make themselves look good."

I agree because I can't find anything that says the DEA was even involved in this case.

@wakeboardertj You were prescribed methadone AND vicodin at the same time? Unfortunately I know a bit about this and the order that you normally see methadone in, is last. That and suboxone. Methadone is used to treat acute opiate addiction, particularly heroin. Rarely methadone is used to treat acute pain patients but only after many, many things have failed. Like patches, subutex, and again, suboxone. You sure it was methadone you were given?

Erik - yes I was first given 10mg hydrocodone (norco), but was having to pop too many to keep up with the pain. Methadone was given as a steady long term release which works great and don't get as loopy as taking multiple norco. However, as a healthcare worker myself I was kind of surprised at my Dr.s prescription writing habits.... I took it upon myself to do as much physical rehab and weight lifting to strengthen my back so I could get off pain killers, they are no joke

" drug enforcement task force" I apologize, Jeremy. To me, task force/agency, they all perform similar services. It's still BS.

Taylor I know too well that they are no joke. Family stuff. I'm glad you were able to see the forest through the trees. It's hard, I know.

"" drug enforcement task force" I apologize, Jeremy. To me, task force/agency, they all perform similar services. It's still BS."

So you think it is okay for one clinic, in one quarter, to prescribe more OC's than the "entire state of California"? Do you get mad when law enforcement shuts down a meth lab or a crack house? I don't see what is "BS" about shutting down a place and going after a someone, wakeboarding icon or not, that is destroying people's lives. Please enlighten us all with your rationale.

Well, Jeremy, if the laws differ from state to state, wouldn't the "Shapiro's clinic vs state of California" discrepancy be an apples to oranges kind of comparison? The laws must be different from state to state or Florida wouldn't be called out like it is. Once again we're back to the issue of "almost none of us have a f*ing clue about what the law is, how it works, and what the right reaction is". This being the internet does not stop us from commenting, and I am guilty too.

The issue for ALL pain clinics is the fear of patients dispensing/distributing the drugs on their own. If they can't manage that, they're going to close up shop - simple as that. If the even so much as feel a hint that a patient is full of it, they need to ditch them. These clinics tend not to turn people away, they insist on cash, sometimes don't allow insurance, and... they MAKE BANK.

I'm sorry but as this relates to Darin Shapiro, I think he's a businessman in trouble, not a "drug dealer". It is a business after all. If he didn't run a clinic someone else will. It doesn't make him innately evil or something. But it's such a grey area that I can understand both sides. As I said though, people have always been very quick to turn on the guy. I mean this sentiment goes back to the 90's and I am not joking. No matter what the topic is really. Though I feel like I'm in bizzaro land trying to figure out how the winningest/highest earning rider in the history of the sport found this as his post-career business. And then for it to sour. So weird. SO weird.

It is my opinion that the doctors writing the prescriptions are the ones that should be in the most trouble. He could have been a hands off investor only guilty of not doing his due diligence. Not enough info to tell though.

This documentary seems to provide a decent summary on the issue of prescription pill abuse (both by user and seller) in Florida and beyond. Doesn't paint a very pretty picture:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7DHM...2sZTHdW0HVAr_A

Originally Posted by psudy

It is my opinion that the doctors writing the prescriptions are the ones that should be in the most trouble. He could have been a hands off investor only guilty of not doing his due diligence. Not enough info to tell though.

You would think the doctor would be in the most trouble. But I'd also have to wonder why the doctor isn't running his own pain clinic instead of working for someone else when such large amounts of money are involved for so little work. I really doubt due diligence is only thing missing here.

I remember Chris's awful story about his dogs but come on...."I had known Darin for about 2 months and I called him in desperation. He gave his credit card details for payment without hesitation. You do not forget kindness like that. If I had the money I would pay his bail in a heartbeat" That's warped. What if your kid or family member was addicted to the drugs that were made easily accessible through licensed doctors as part of his operation. What if Darrin offered the free sample during a party. I'm sure Darrin only considered the money but never had to face those affected by his drug distribution operation. Hell it was a family business....

That reminds me of the mafia boss who's kid went to my high school. He would do things like pay for all the cheerleaders uniforms or the little league's trip to another city to play in a tournament. Oh he such a nice great guy. Meanwhile he's distributing drugs and was convicted of murder and money laundering. Its easy to turn a blind eye when your the benefactor of anothers dirty work.

"Well, Jeremy, if the laws differ from state to state, wouldn't the "Shapiro's clinic vs state of California" discrepancy be an apples to oranges kind of comparison?"

You are 100% correct. There is no way in hell you should be able to compare Oxy prescriptions from a state with over thirty six million people with those from a single pain management clinic.

Originally Posted by wake77

"Well, Jeremy, if the laws differ from state to state, wouldn't the "Shapiro's clinic vs state of California" discrepancy be an apples to oranges kind of comparison?"

You are 100% correct. There is no way in hell you should be able to compare Oxy prescriptions from a state with over thirty six million people with those from a single pain management clinic.

Yeah. Thanks. When I was in Journalism school, we read this book and I'll never forget it.
http://www.amazon.com/How-Lie-Statis.../dp/0393310728
"How to Lie With Statistics"

"So you think it is okay for one clinic, in one quarter, to prescribe more OC's than the "entire state of California"? Do you get mad when law enforcement shuts down a meth lab or a crack house? I don't see what is "BS" about shutting down a place and going after a someone, wakeboarding icon or not, that is destroying people's lives. Please enlighten us all with your rationale. " Jeremy, while I symphaize with anyone who has an adddiction problem, by BS, I mean the charges are "GROSSLY" exaggerated. Even if half of what DS is being charged for is true, just close the clinic, take away the doctor's license, and give them a fine.

Originally Posted by Laker1234

"So you think it is okay for one clinic, in one quarter, to prescribe more OC's than the "entire state of California"? Do you get mad when law enforcement shuts down a meth lab or a crack house? I don't see what is "BS" about shutting down a place and going after a someone, wakeboarding icon or not, that is destroying people's lives. Please enlighten us all with your rationale. " Jeremy, while I symphaize with anyone who has an adddiction problem, by BS, I mean the charges are "GROSSLY" exaggerated. Even if half of what DS is being charged for is true, just close the clinic, take away the doctor's license, and give them a fine.

I'm sorry but I don't understand the point you are making, It's kind of all over the place sir, quotes and stuff. I can tell you are trying to make a point but I don't understand. Are you saying they just deserve a slap on the wrist? Or do you equate legitimate pain clinics prescribing medication to chronically ill or chronic pain patients with a crack house? Those people who need this stuff do exist. These places exist because primary care doctors don't feel equipped to dispense loads of opiate pain medication in such large quantities. Opiate use in humans goes back, literally, thousands of years. I agree this is a problem and it is being abused but someone has to do it, sadly.

"Even if half of what DS is being charged for is true, just close the clinic, take away the doctor's license, and give them a fine."

So putting people's lives at risk and damaging others only deserves a fine? I guess with your rationale, a few days in jail is sufficient for a convicted murderer.

I didn't read anywhere in the article about DS killing anyone or damaging a life. However, I did see words such as racketeering and money laundering, which are normally used when prosecuting organized crime members. Sorry, but I don't see how taking all of a person's money and sending him/her to jail is a solution.

it's not a solution, but it is a consequence. had it been an mlb, nba or nfl player, i bet a lot those defending darin would be asking for life in prison.

I can't believe everyone is condemning Shapiro already. Innocent until proven guilty? I bet if you were arrested, you would want people to at least give you the possibility that you were innocent before trashing your name on the internet. Also, if you are not a lawyer, you should not talk about the law or how punishments should be dealt out to people, because you don't know what you are talking about. It seems like lots of people have opinions about the dispensing of pain-killers, but if you are not a doctor then you don't really know about what goes in to the decision about whether or not to prescribe them. Having a history of drug abuse doesn't make you an expert on the topic either. It is sad to see this kind of accusation be brought against a person that a lot of us probably looked up to, but it is also really sad to see how quick everyone is to believe everything they hear, and to condemn a guy when they have no evidence to support their accusations.

What's this "everyone" s#it? Not "everyone" is condemning him.

"I didn't read anywhere in the article about DS killing anyone or damaging a life."

They weren't writing prescriptions for Advil. Have you watched the news or looked around your community to see what oxy's do to people? You may like to turn a blind eye because it is prescription medication, but that crap turns people into junkies.

"I can't believe everyone is condemning Shapiro already. Innocent until proven guilty? I bet if you were arrested, you would want people to at least give you the possibility that you were innocent before trashing your name on the internet."

Last time I checked, most people like to have opinions on topics. Why would Shapiro be any different?

Originally Posted by acerock88

It seems like lots of people have opinions about the dispensing of pain-killers, but if you are not a doctor then you don't really know about what goes in to the decision about whether or not to prescribe them. Having a history of drug abuse doesn't make you an expert on the topic either.

That's not true. Some of us do know what goes into a doctor prescribing these things. And someone with a history of drug abuse is an expert on what it takes to get a prescription.

My bad. Not everyone is condemning him, so if you feel wrongly labeled I apologize. I posted that at 3 in the morning so I might have been a little careless when I wrote it. However, I do think some people are being to quick to pass judgement on Shapiro. I don't think it is any more appropriate to call him guilty and say he ruined people's lives than it is to say what SamIngram said about other riders, when there is so little information out about the circumstances surrounding the arrest. People, myself included, should be more careful with what they say about another person's life. Just my opinion.

"Yeah. Thanks. When I was in Journalism school, we read this book and I'll never forget it.
http://www.amazon.com/How-Lie-Statis.../dp/0393310728
"How to Lie With Statistics""

People only say statistics lie when it doesn't support their view.

That's what I was trying to say, Alex. This type of news has a tendecy to get blown out of proportion. I'm not buying it.

Originally Posted by wake77

People only say statistics lie when it doesn't support their view.

Sorry, but that is such a spectacularly stupid thing to say. My god.

Darin's wikipedia article already refers to his "pill mill". I would be astounded if any company in the wake industry wanted to use the Shapiro name to sell anything ever again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darin_Shapiro

Darin, his bro and his papa are looking at up to 25 yrs in prison.

http://thegardenisland.com/news/loca...9bb2963f4.html

Even if by some failure in the justice system he doesn't go to jail, I'm sad to say:

Darin Shapiro's career as a professional wakeboarder is over.