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Old    BLAIR BARHAM (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       01-28-2012, 10:58 AM Reply   
This is more for my wife than me. We are both trying to work out a little more mainly 2 to 3 times a week. She was asking me if she should take anything like a Supplement and I have no idea what to tell her. She is mainly trying to lean up and lose a few pounds. I don't think she would ever take a diet pill or something like that but I don't know anything about supplements and don't want to give her the wrong advice.

Also every time I start drink proten drinks like musle milk I swear it goes straight to my gut. I think thats because when I'm not working out I sit behind a computer for 8 hours a day doing CAD. What would you recomend for me to take to bulk up a little.

P.S. both of us are really making an efford to eat better.
Old    McGavin (Shooter)      Join Date: Apr 2010       01-28-2012, 11:19 AM Reply   
I'm by far not the expert, but enjoy reading about this kind of stuff. I read this ebook and found it very interesting.
http ://bodybuilding.about.com/od/productreviews/gr/dietsupplements.htm

In a nutshell, he said most supplements are BS and have little or no clinical evidence that they work. He only recommended a healthy diet, Whey protein, Creatine, omega fats and a multivitamin.

You obviously need to workout to see any advantages to the protein & creatine.
Old    McGavin (Shooter)      Join Date: Apr 2010       01-28-2012, 11:23 AM Reply   
Oh yeah...He also said Ephedrine works well to lean up, but I don't think it is worth the problems it may cause. Just eat health. Eat a diet high in lean protein and cut the simple sugars.
Old    Eric (mjfan23)      Join Date: Nov 2003       01-28-2012, 11:29 AM Reply   
Muscle Milk is not a great supplement if your trying to lose weight.. Its not bad if your trying to bulk up, but you want to work out hard or it will go right to your "gut"

Id reccomend Whey Protein to both you and your wife.

Creatine based supplements are popular but kind of a waste imo. All your gains are water based and not real, along with as soon as your stop it goes away.

Best thing is to workout hard.

Last edited by mjfan23; 01-28-2012 at 11:33 AM.
Old    McGavin (Shooter)      Join Date: Apr 2010       01-28-2012, 11:44 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjfan23 View Post

Creatine based supplements are popular but kind of a waste imo. All your gains are water based and not real, along with as soon as your stop it goes away.
You are right on, but the argument for Creatine is that it can allow you to slightly increase your repetitions thus giving you better gains over time.
Old    McGavin (Shooter)      Join Date: Apr 2010       01-28-2012, 12:01 PM Reply   
As far as protein drinks without the carbs/ calories. I like tge EAS Myoplex lite.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       01-28-2012, 3:24 PM Reply   
Check out this thread. I just started juicing veggies last week. I'm already slimming down and I'm not even trying to lose weight. In the movie they are fasting on juice. I'm not doing that. Combine that with some protein for building lean muscle mass and you should be doing good. If the juice gives you the runs it's because you don't have enough veggies in your diet.

http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=791533
Old    Andrea Ensminger (parkgirl)      Join Date: Nov 2001       01-29-2012, 6:18 AM Reply   
Most trainers I work with start everyone on a multi-vitamin (if they aren't taking one) a fat burner (pre-workout) and a protein powder, (post-workout. whey is better). Im no expert, just saying what I know.

John- I do a green smoothie for breakfast 3-4 times a week. I love them!

Combine a bunch of super greens like, Kale and spinach in with some fruits and blend up quick way to get a whole bunch of the good stuff in. Add some ground up flax seed in too.

Many protein powders have a bunch of additives. You want one with low carbs, low sugar and low fat. Opti-whey nutrition and Iso-Pure powders are a good brand choice.
Old    J.B. O'Neill (gnarslayer)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-29-2012, 7:38 AM Reply   
whey protien reduces hunger and has alot of nutrients per calorie, so that would already be a start in losing weight.

drink 10 to 12 ice cold cups of water a day, your body will burn around 500 more calories a day from trying to warm your body back up.

and for you, just stick with the protien and take some of this for your pre work out supplement http://www.novateklabs.com/
Old    Jason Buffalow (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-30-2012, 7:45 AM Reply   
Hey Andrea, what fat burners are they recommending these days?
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       01-30-2012, 7:58 AM Reply   
Muscle Milk is garbage. That goes for any protein powder pretty much. Look at the ingredients. Chemicals. Dozens of them. You muscles might appreciate the protein, but the rest of your body is paying the price.

Eat good, nutrient rich whole food.

"She was asking me if she should take anything like a Supplement"

I wouldn't

"drink 10 to 12 ice cold cups of water a day, your body will burn around 500 more calories a day from trying to warm your body back up."

I know that cold water will sit in the stomach until it's warmed up and passed on. I seriously doubt that you'll burn 500 calories this way though. For most people, 500 calories is about 45-60 minutes on a treadmill.

I take exercise for a fat burner.
Old    BLAIR BARHAM (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       01-30-2012, 8:57 AM Reply   
Thanks for the answers thats pretty much what I thought. We both are killing some water right now and trying our best to eat healthy. She really dosen't need to lose any weight but you know how women are.

So It looks like whey is about the only protien that was recomended. I've done the p90x thing and still use some of the workouts, its just to cardio based for me. I only weigh about 158-159 on a good day at 6' tall I don't need to lose anything. Its just that as soon as I start taking a protien powder my abs go backwards, maybe I'm just seeing things.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       02-01-2012, 2:19 PM Reply   
There are lots of beneficial supplements (= any nutrients you use to supplement your current diet) (diet= whatever you eat, not necessarily a calorie ristricted diet which is what everyone thinks of when they hear "diet")

Protein powders, both Whey and other compalation proteins, will feed your muscles the aminos they need to aid in recovery. Can you get this from straight food? Yes, however the types of protein used typically have a higher bio availabilty than do those we eat as well as have a better amino acid profile. They often have Aminogen in them which affords the body a better ability to digest/utilize the protein. They are way more convenient, you can suck down 40G of protein in a chocolate shake or prepare and eat a chicken breast. Don't get me wrong, I am a firm believer in eating clean whole foods as well but discounting the benefits of protein supplementation is a mistake.

Creatine is a very good supplement if you are looking to increase muscular strength and stamina. The initional weight gain found with creatine supplementation is yes from water (muscles are 76% water) but you should ultimately see lasting increase in muscular tissue due to the increase work capacity. If you can lift more your muscles have to grow to accomodate the increased work load.

Thermogenics work to both supress ones appetite and stimulate a thermogenic response from the body. They are pretty much all stimulant based and work on the sympatthetic nervous system so use caution if you're sensitive to them or have had other stimulants. Some also have herbs/aminos/nutrients that stimulate the thyroid.

Multivitamins are very beneficial in my book. Its very hard these days to get the amount of vitamins we need to be truly healthy from whole food sources and unless you grow and raise your own expect them to be lacking.

Lipids i.e. fish oil, EPO, flax, etc. are very good for you and have loads of benefits

Ergogenics usually are a waste.

I may be a bit biased as I've owned a couple nutrition stores but I have also researched a great deal as well and seen first hand the benefits they have.
Old    Erik (kinger)      Join Date: Jun 2007       02-01-2012, 2:37 PM Reply   
What ever you get make sure it comes from a high grade source (not crap). The only thing I would advise her to get on is the supplements that she maybe needs to subsidize her diet with. So we don't eat alot of fish in our house so we both take krill oil. if you didn't get a large amount of fruit and vegitables then you should be on a multi-vit. if you didn't get alot of lean protein then you should be following a workout w/some highgrade protein. Its is all dependent on your existing diet, but I would never venture outside of those basic supplement (i.e. Creatine, ephedrine, ect) its all jusnk w/ to many potential side effects.
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-01-2012, 2:37 PM Reply   
EPO has loads of benefits but I don't think its that good for you......
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       02-01-2012, 4:03 PM Reply   
Evening Primrose Oil vs Erythropoietin wrong EPO


Quote:
(i.e. Creatine, ephedrine, ect) its all jusnk w/ to many potential side effects.
Creatine is one of the most studied/scrutinized and still most hearalded supplements. There is very little to be worried about with it. Are there potential sides? Yes but less than taking an asperine. Ephedrine certainly can be dangerous but getting that banned was a witch hunt. At the time of its banning there were 122 total cases reported agianst meanwhile asperine is associated with thousands of deaths a year.
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-01-2012, 5:39 PM Reply   
Haha. Didn't you hear EPO is as safe as orange juice.
Old     (wtrgrl)      Join Date: Mar 2009       02-02-2012, 8:38 AM Reply   
For you, up your weight and lower your reps. For your girl, lots of cardio and when lifting weights lower weight and lots of reps. For both of you take any vitamins that are lacking in your diet.
Old    Adam Curtis (acurtis_ttu)      Join Date: May 2004       02-02-2012, 10:15 AM Reply   
surprised no one has mentioned it, but you both should write down everything you eat/drink over a 1-2 week period. It will give you an idea of where you're at ( diet) and show you how you can supplement to get to where you wanna be.

Most people who ask me for "diet" advice dont' really know where they stand. I tell most people to focus on macros ( carbs/fat/protien) instead of calories. It's easier....
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       02-02-2012, 11:25 AM Reply   
When I use to compete I wrote down everything that went into my mouth broke down into kcal/ pro/ carb/ fat so I always knew where I stood. Now I just stick to specific foods and don't worry about calorie counting. Any proteins, eggs, heavily fibrous veggies i.e grean, fruits (not melons), berries, nuts. I don't do any starches, beans, legumes, grains, dairy, sugars. The only thing I blow my diet on is beer. I drank dark beers all fall and winter and am now paying the price, so now the beer fridge is bone dry and I'm scheduling my drinking i.e Super Bowl, Whistler trip, etc.

Supps I take:
Progenix, Syntrax 5.0, Myofusion, Cytosport Whey
Vitamin D
Alive mutivitamin, although I started blending quite a bit so I'm not on this right now to see how it goes
I occasianally take a thermogenic and a pre workout blend but not very often
Glucosamine and MSM
Ground Flax
Vitamin C
Old    BLAIR BARHAM (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       02-02-2012, 12:16 PM Reply   
Adam I think you are right about not know where I'm at with my diet. One of the main staples in my diet is a PB & J sandwich on weat with either skim milk or OJ. I have eatin this ever day for breakfeast with out missing a day since I was about five. And most days I eat it for lunch too becuase its quick. I don't know how good or bad they are but that would be one thing I would really have a problem getting rid of. I don't really eat any kind of sea food and really cut back on the beer I guess you could say I'm a steak and potatoes kind of guy and I'm trying to limit the potatoes. LOL
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-02-2012, 1:04 PM Reply   
Hey Blair, I know where you are with the same thing every day. I have been eating Sunflower bread toast with cream cheese and strawberry jam for breakfast every day for a long time. However I recently decided to get rid of refined sugar in my diet as jam is almost all sugar.

Now I take fresh strawberries, blueberries, and mango, throw it i the blender on chop and make my own jar of jam with no sugar. When I make my toast I add the chopped fruit and honey to sweeten. Still not the healthiest, but IMO miles and away better than sugar filled jam.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       02-02-2012, 1:52 PM Reply   
Quote:
PB & J sandwich on weat with either skim milk or OJ
Yeah kick the sugar so find no sugar added peanut butter, jams, jellys or do as John mentioned. Also avoid the OJ so stick with the skim milk and maybe a half orange. This way you get the fiber thats in the orange that mitigates the insulin spike tha OJ will cause. We condition ourselves to NEED sugars and salts to ENHANCE flavor but we don't need it. Give it two weeks and you will see how your tastes change. Pretty soon those sugar filled foods will be to sweet.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       02-02-2012, 3:24 PM Reply   
Hate, I like and agree with your outlook on food selection. But as a health and fitness guy, you put a lot of unnatural stuff in your body. Skim milk is the most highly processed milk available, and the list of ingredients in your supplements is nasty. Do you not worry about all of the chemicals while you're trying to make healthy decisions? Do you not worry about where the milk comes from that produces that whey? The artificial colors, flavors, sweeteners, and 10 other mystery chemicals that are simply abbreviated as "Artificial Flavors" because the FDA doesn't force companies to list them?

I cycle every few years through various levels of fitness. Lately I'm most focused on proper movement, fending off imbalances, preventing injury, maintaining a high standard of cardio-respiratory performance, and looking good. I'll admin I'm less focused on building strength and muscle mass, and more focus on being healthy and fit as I'm approaching 38. My workout are always high intensity circuits.

In my early 20s, I was into body building, and consuming every supplement available. Mass amounts of protein, creatine, and everything else. In my experience that stuff offers only more the same chemicals that we're already getting in the processed food that most of us are buying at the grocery store. Creatine also effects kidney function.

3 years ago at 34 while working as a trainer at a mostly-Chek Practitioner shop, I was in the best shape of my life using nothing more than workouts and natural whole foods. My strength, cardio, and overall physique was at an all time high. Leaner, stronger, and more fit than I was at 23 working out 6 days a week and loading up on mass amounts of protein.

My take on supplements.......poisonous and unnecessary. Vitamins included. Marketing hype and studies paid for by supplement companies.

I also believe in biochemical individuality. So recommending that everyone take in the same nutrients regardless of metabolic type or chemical deficiencies is kind of silly to me.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       02-03-2012, 3:23 PM Reply   
Quote:
Skim milk is the most highly processed milk available, and the list of ingredients in your supplements is nasty. Do you not worry about all of the chemicals while you're trying to make healthy decisions? Do you not worry about where the milk comes from that produces that whey? The artificial colors, flavors, sweeteners, and 10 other mystery chemicals that are simply abbreviated as "Artificial Flavors" because the FDA doesn't force companies to list them?
I don't drink milk and haven't since 97. Am I against it? Nope, it just doesn't work with my diet. I'm not at all concerened with what is in the supplements I use. I've seen many a lab assay from the companys I select from and only buy from very reputable companies. Look in a perfect world we would all get all of our nutrients from food but for many its simply just not realistic. 99% of the population simply doesn't have the knowledge, time nor inclination to prepare meals to suit their nutritional needs. Hell you're running the risk that the soil your food is raised on/ grown in is good, free of chemicals and provisional of the minerals you require. I've seen way to many people return to, sustain and start a healthy lifestyle via supplementation to ever deny their efficacy. We'll probably never see eye to eye on that, and thats okay.

Quote:
My take on supplements.......poisonous and unnecessary. Vitamins included. Marketing hype and studies paid for by supplement companies.
I feel this is a radical and dangerous opinion to assert onto the masses and certainly is in the minority amongst nutritionist, natropaths and doctors alike.
Old    Andrea Ensminger (parkgirl)      Join Date: Nov 2001       02-04-2012, 9:17 AM Reply   
I agree, Jarrod you are exactly right... however expecting the general public to conform and adopt to that high standard is idealistic. It's like getting everyone to stop powerturning and surfing on glass. we wish! haha

People are starting to prioritize their health and well being but we have a long way to go. Supplements get them started on the right track and hopefully begin to teach them what to be putting in their body instead of the fast food and frozen processed junk most turn to. They are the gateway to better living. Yes it is the quick and lazy way to get protein and vitamins, but it's better that the alternatives they might be used to.
Old    Jeff Moore (jeff359)      Join Date: Jun 2005       02-04-2012, 1:11 PM Reply   
I'm old school I guess. Eat big to get big, eat slim to get slim. IMO, the only supplements worth taking are illegal.

Also for me, I quit drinking diet soda and sugar free rockstar since the new year, and I've already lost over 15 lbs and two inches on my waist. Cut out anything that comes in a package or can, do your grocery shopping on the out side isles of the stores (try it and you'll see why).

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