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Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-05-2012, 4:40 PM Reply   
Barack Obama's 32 Month Report Card
by Rich Carroll

Mr. Hope and Change wants to create a nation humbled; humiliated, casting-aside capitalism and individual freedoms for one where we the people are government controlled. This would be a system that genuflects mediocrity, steals personal aspiration and opportunity, and punishes those who strive to succeed.

A gallon of regular gasoline the day Obama was inaugurated was $1.79 on average in the U.S. Today that price is $3.59, a 100.6% increase. The number of food stamp recipients has risen since Obama took office from 31,983,716 to 43,200,878, a 35.1% jump. Long term unemployment soared 146.2% during the same 32 month period from 2,600,000 to 6,400,000. Staggering hope and change isn't it?

American citizens living in poverty have risen 9.5% from 39,800,000 to 43,600,000, and the number of unemployed has jumped almost 25% from 11,616,000 to 14,485,000 as of August 31, 2011. The number of unemployed blacks has risen from 12.6% at the end of George Bush's term to 15.8% today, a 25.4% increase, and finally, our national debt is up 34.4% from 10.627 trillion to 14,278 trillion *

Keep these figures in mind as we recount the number of firsts for this presidency:

First President to refuse to show a valid birth certificate.
First President to apply for college aid as a foreign student, then deny he was a foreigner.
First President to have a social security number from a state he has never lived in.
First President to preside over a cut to the credit rating of the United States .
First President to violate the War Powers Act.
First President to be held in contempt of court for illegally obstructing oil drilling in the Gulf of Mexico .
First President to defy a Federal Judges court order to cease implementing the Health Care Reform Law.
First President to require all Americans to purchase a product from a third party.
First President to spend a trillion dollars on shovel-ready jobs and later admit there was no such thing as shovel-ready jobs.
First President to abrogate bankruptcy law to turn over control of companies to his union supporters.
First President to by-pass Congress and implement the Dream Act through executive fiat.
First President to order a secret amnesty program that stopped the deportation of illegal immigrants across the U.S. , including those with criminal convictions.
First President to demand a company hand-over $20 billion to one of his political appointees.
First President to terminate Americas ability to put a man in space.
First President to encourage racial discrimination and intimidation at polling places.
First President to have a law signed by an auto-pen without being present.
First President to arbitrarily declare an existing law unconstitutional and refuse to enforce it.
First President to threaten insurance companies if they publicly speak-out on the reasons for their rate increases.
First President to tell a major manufacturing company in which state they are allowed to locate a factory.
First President to file lawsuits against the states he swore an oath to protect (AZ, WI, OH, IN)
First President to withdraw an existing coal permit that had been properly issued years ago.
First President to fire an inspector general of Ameri-corps for catching one of his friends in a corruption case.
First President to appoint 45 Czars to replace elected officials in his office.
First President to golf 73 separate times in his first two and a half years in office.
First President to hide his medical, educational and travel records.
First President to win a Nobel Peace Prize for doing NOTHING to earn it.
First President to coddle American enemies while alienating Americas allies.
First President to publicly bow to Americas enemies while refusing to salute the U.S. Flag.
First President to go on multiple global apology tours.
First President to go on 17 lavish vacations, including date nights and Wednesday evening White House parties for his friends, paid for by the taxpayer.
First President to refuse to wear the U.S. Flag lapel pin.
First President to have 22 personal servants (taxpayer funded) for his wife.
First President to keep a dog trainer on retainer for $102,000.00 a year at taxpayer expense.
First President to repeat the Holy Qur'an tells us, and openly admit the early morning call of the Azan (Islamic call to worship) is the most beautiful sound on earth.

Remember that 32 months of Obama White House we the people have accumulated national debt at a rate more than 27 times as fast as during the rest of our nation's entire history, as the Obama's plan their next extravagant vacation to the Indonesian Island nation of Bali .

Hope and change anyone ?????????

* sources: U.S. Energy Information Administration, Wall Street Journal, Bureau of Labor Statistics, US Dept of Labor, Standard & Poors/Case-Shiller, Federal Reserve, US Treasury, Heritage Foundation.
Old    Flight007 (poser007)      Join Date: Nov 2004       01-05-2012, 8:11 PM Reply   
I know some of this stuff would have grown no matter who was in office. But after reading this I dislike Obama even more then I did before I read it. Unfortunetely I am not a huge fan of any of the GOP guys coming in either, I guess if I had to choose I would go with Nute right now.
Old    Cliff (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       01-06-2012, 7:10 AM Reply   
the scariest part of Obama is his refusal to follow the checks and balances that our government is all about. He came out publicly the other day and said that he is willing to work with congress, but if he can't get what he wants, he will go around them.
He was advised by his own counsel not to make these latest appointments the way that he did. His democrat cronies are supporting the same tactics that they claimed were unconstitutional with Bush.
He broke the law, now lets impeach him

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2829319/posts

http://www.npr.org/2012/01/06/144781...al-appointment

http://weaselzippers.us/2012/01/05/s...s-appointment/
Old    David Williams (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       01-06-2012, 12:25 PM Reply   
^^^^ Totally agree. It was unbelievable to watch Jay Carney try to explain this away this week. He actually sat there and stated that because congress was being "stubborn," it justifies Obama going around them. It's completely unbelievable to hear that come out of the White House spokeman's mouth. If congress chooses not to do something and abides by all the rules of Congress in doing so, then they can't be forced to do it by another branch of government that disagrees. That's why we have separation of powers! It's so incredibly blatant, even by Obama standards, that I'm just stunned. This is how dictatorships come about...just keep grabbing power little by little and before you know it you're the only branch of government that matters!

Start at 2:30 if you want to hear him explain why Congress apparently doesn't have the right to turn down proposals that the administration feels strongly about. Craze!


Last edited by wakeworld; 01-06-2012 at 12:41 PM.
Old    Mik (norcalrider)      Join Date: Jun 2002       01-06-2012, 12:42 PM Reply   
George Washington and many other Presidents have used recess appointments. Not justifying the action just stating the fact.

I do feel with the passage and signature on the NDAA that liberty is being assaulted or devalued by our current elected officials.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       01-06-2012, 1:05 PM Reply   
Even with all that God still told Pat Robertson that Obama was going to win again.
Old    Bruizza (bruizza)      Join Date: May 2009       01-06-2012, 1:06 PM Reply   
The gas prices part of that "report card" is the most LOL part of the whole thing. You all do realize gas prices were $4.00/gallon+ before the economy crashed which happened before Obama took office. Just in case you forgot here is a nice site to go to and check out.

http://gasbuddy.com/gb_retail_price_chart.aspx

Also...

Beginning in 2002, each subsequent year of Bush’s administration saw higher average annual gas prices than the previous year. For six years in a row — from 2003 through 2008 — gas prices rose. Prices crossed the $2.00/gallon mark in 2004 and ultimately rose to an annual average of $3.30 a gallon in 2008, Bush’s last full year in office. And the only reason gasoline prices weren’t higher than $3.30 a gallon was due to the recession-induced price collapse in the price of oil in the second half of 2008.

http://www.consumerenergyreport.com/...on-gas-prices/

Also almost every single thing on that list has been debunked. I am not defending Obama because he has not delivered what he promised but these internet chain letters with the fear mongering stuff are just silly.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       01-06-2012, 1:07 PM Reply   
"It was unbelievable to watch Jay Carney try to explain this away this week."

Congress and the Senate have claimed they are in session, and Carney challenged the press to go to Capitol Hill and to find one single member of Congress. I can't say I am work when I am sitting at home on the couch, so why should elected officials be granted that ability? What's unbelievable about that?
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       01-06-2012, 2:44 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizza View Post
Also almost every single thing on that list has been debunked. I am not defending Obama because he has not delivered what he promised but these internet chain letters with the fear mongering stuff are just silly.
It does make you wonder why people keep turning to the liars for information.
Old    GD (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       01-06-2012, 4:04 PM Reply   
Quote:
First President to refuse to show a valid birth certificate.
Its never a good idea to start a list with something absurd/stupid/noise/rubbish.
Old    Mik (norcalrider)      Join Date: Jun 2002       01-06-2012, 4:24 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
"It was unbelievable to watch Jay Carney try to explain this away this week."

Congress and the Senate have claimed they are in session, and Carney challenged the press to go to Capitol Hill and to find one single member of Congress. I can't say I am work when I am sitting at home on the couch, so why should elected officials be granted that ability? What's unbelievable about that?
If they are "in session" one would expect a quorum in DC but otherwise they all have district offices so you can't exactly equate that to sitting at home on the couch.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       01-06-2012, 4:55 PM Reply   
"He broke the law, now lets impeach him"

The federal appellate courts have already made it clear that such presidential "recess appointments" – even while the Senate is in a "pro forma" session – are constitutional. See e.g., Evans v. Stephens, 387 F. 3d 1220 (CA 11, 2004), cert. denied, 544 U.S. 942 (2005); United States v. Woodley, 751 F.2d 1008, 1013 (CA9, 1985) (en banc); United States v. Allocco, 305 F.2d 704, 709-713 (CA2, 1962).

"If they are "in session" one would expect a quorum in DC but otherwise they all have district offices so you can't exactly equate that to sitting at home on the couch."

The Senate doesn't convene until the 23rd, the Congress on the 17th. They are in a "pro-forma" session. I don't think we could find any of the lawmakers in their district offices either.

"In the United States federal government, either house of the United States Congress (the United States House of Representatives or the United States Senate) can hold a pro forma session at which no formal business is expected to be conducted.[4] This is usually to fulfill the obligation under the Constitution "that neither chamber can adjourn for more than three days without the consent of the other."[5] Pro forma sessions can also be used to prevent the President pocket-vetoing bills, or calling the Congress into special session.[6] They have also been used to prevent presidents from making recess appointments."
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       01-06-2012, 5:12 PM Reply   
"First President to golf 73 separate times in his first two and a half years in office."

This is one I couldn't pass on. President Eisenhower played over 800 rounds as president. But he wasn't the most avid golfer while president. Woodrow Wilson played close to 1,600 rounds during his two terms. So Obama is averaging about 30 rounds a year. So if he keeps this pace, in four years, he would have played 120 rounds and if reelected, he would have played 240 rounds. Playing golf 30 times a year classifies you as a weekend hack, and I don't think that amount would interfere with any career.
Old    Cliff (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       01-06-2012, 7:46 PM Reply   
during the George H.W. Bush administration, Democrats came up with the idea of pro forma sessions, in which the body is gaveled to order then immediately adjourned for another few days.
Republicans have continued the practice. The notion is that it prevents the Senate from fully going into recess, thus blocking a president from using the recess appointment authority.

Some legal experts have concluded that the Constitution gives a president authority to make a recess appointment only for positions that actually become vacant during the recess

Jeremy, are you really an Obama supporter? Isn't there another liberal politician somewhere that could do a better job?
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-06-2012, 8:18 PM Reply   
Over Christmas Vacation the Obama's were supposed to Vacation in Hawaii. Mr Obama stayed behind and tryed to get the latest bill pushed threw. Ms Obama Flys Air Force one to Hawaii complete with the 2nd on in tow. 4 days later Mr Obama Joins the Family for vacation. Os the 2 Complete Air force One's have to do the Round trip for a 2nd time. Seems like alot of jet fuel and Tax Payer money got wastes Just so Ms Obama could get to Hawaii on time.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       01-06-2012, 8:45 PM Reply   
"during the George H.W. Bush administration, Democrats came up with the idea of pro forma sessions,"

Bush had 34 recess appointments compared to 31 for Obama, what's your point? I am not an Obama supporter, per se, but I voted for him. What was the alternative? McCain and Palin? You must be joking. Do you think things would be better with them two in office? Which current GOP candidate do you think is going to be an improvement to what we have? Explain to me how life for you is so bad under Obama and how life is going to be better under one of the GOP candidates. Put your stupid little list aside, because almost all of it is not true. I bet you honestly cannot answer that question.
Old    Cliff (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       01-07-2012, 8:11 AM Reply   
Bush made several recess appointments, true, but not one during a pro forma session. It was the democrats that came up with tactic for keeping congress in session. Bush's legal team, like Obama's, advised him not to make an appointment during those times. When Bush did not, the same democrats that are praising Obama's move now, said then that if he had, they would have challenged it.

I really hope that the Supreme Court gets a chance to rule on this finally. It would stop the abuses from both sides.

You really didn't answer the question. Much like there isn't a stellar GOP candidate, there also isn't a stellar democratic candidate.

Obama is a progressive. I am not a fan of the progressive.

First was the passing of a healthcare bill that; A) didn't address that real problems, B)was shoved down the throats of congress and the public so fast, that it wasn't even read thoroughly (Pelosi's words), and C) will wind up costing us more and more and more (the congressional budget office changed their outlook shortly after the thing was signed)

Obama birthed that little gem when he had control of the congress. The public's answer was to rebuild congress with enough of an imbalance to stop or slow him down.

He is not effective within the checks and balances of the government and has said that he will continue to work around congress if they don't agree with him. How does that not bother you?

To answer you: The economy isn't any better. He hasn't addressed some of the issues that would stave off inflation. The corn ethanol situation for example. This piece of work directly affects me. I own a restaurant. Anything that has corn in it has skyrocketed in price.
Experts are now saying that another crash is coming. So much so that my business partner is completely out of the market.

Also, I believe that any of the top 3 GOP candidates could do a better job. Even if the definition of a better job is to stop the progressive "bleeding"

Last edited by ord27; 01-07-2012 at 8:14 AM.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       01-07-2012, 9:05 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ord27 View Post
Isn't there another liberal politician somewhere that could do a better job?
Probably. But the best time to ask that question isn't after trying to defend a list off the right wing liar's spam train.

We all know that the Democrats aren't going to nominate a new candidate. Besides Obama is obviously way better than the fantasy world where the right wing lives. Otherwise they could promote their agenda by telling the truth.

Sounds to me like you have low standards. Because I don't need lies to convince me I'd rather see someone else in the White House. But there isn't enough wool in the world to cover my eyes from the lunacy of the GOP.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       01-07-2012, 9:14 AM Reply   
A look at where the stock market was when Obama took office as opposed to where it is now contradicts your claim of "the economy not being any better". As far as "working around Congress", the Congress has made it abundantly clear since the GOP took over Congress that they will not support anything with Obama's name on it. Look at the nonsense surrounding the payroll tax extension, to avoid looking like total buffoons and burying the 2012 presidential candidate, the GOP finally relinquished. I don't know about you, but I don't vote people to go to Washington and get absolutely nothing done, except furthering their political career, for two years. I mean at your restaurant, do you retain people that sit around and do nothing because they don't agree with what their co-workers are doing?

"The public's answer was to rebuild congress with enough of an imbalance to stop or slow him down."

And where is the public approval rating for Congress right now? Last time I checked, it was less than 10%. Now GOP lawmakers are beginning to point the finger at each other, particularly, John Boehner.

This is an Op-Ed piece written by two of Bush's attorneys in 2010 concerning pro forma sessions.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...101405441.html

"First was the passing of a healthcare bill that" "Also, I believe that any of the top 3 GOP candidates could do a better job"

I find it peculiar that your main issue with Obama is the healthcare bill, (isn't Romney a top 3 candidate?) but you think a guy whose highlight as governor was passing a government-sponsored healthcare bill is a better candidate? Strange to say the least.
Old    Cliff (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       01-07-2012, 10:19 AM Reply   
if my standards are low, I much prefer that to anyone who just buries their head in the sand and hopes things will work out. Yes, I will vote for anyone who will stall Obama's agenda.

With the healthcare bill, you have to also look between the lines. He said full public bi-partisan exposure. He had more behind closed door partisan meetings than not. He refused to even consider any ideas from across the isle. I don't know about you, but the leader that I want should be able to reach across the isle.

Congress is at the lowest approval rating because the public spin is to name call and blame. Nothing is getting done, because the result of the Obama agenda is to create a dependent welfare state. I am glad that there is a congress that is trying to not allow this to happen.

Healthcare.......you seriously can't be happy with the way that Obama shoved this down everyone's throat without really knowing what was in it. that is just reckless.

Look at the list of waivers that were granted. A restaurant chain changes it's menu to a healthier selection. The result:it gets a pass on Obamacare

20% of the new group of waivers granted were in Pelosi's district. Sounds to me like the government trying to DICTATE things.....and corruption.

Even Bill Clinton came out and criticized Obama for his weak leadership.

Internationally.....we could go on for days about this one. Just read up on how Iran views Obama.

They all lie during a campaign. Everyone of them spouts off whatever will get them elected. I would rather gamble on the next guy than worry about what this guy will try to do. Can you imagine what would happen if he tackled the immigration situation the way that he did healthcare? We could get a bill signed that no one would know what was in it until even more damage was done. Amnesty? more affirmative action? How about we pay repercussions to all Illegals who lived here worrying about being deported.......

economy....ask the unemployed
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/unit...mployment-rate
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       01-07-2012, 11:53 AM Reply   
Yes, interesting list. Some is irrelevant or not significant and some is contradictory to the point attempting to be made. Regardless,look at those who this Obama is terrible. They cheer on their neocon candidate of choice, who are all the same. Obama has been a great neocon, so may as well vote for him if you're considering Newt/Romney/Santorum/etc. Then those folks can feel good about "winning" while we all have more money stolen from us by government and more of our rights violated.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       01-07-2012, 11:56 AM Reply   
Cliff, if you are judging your standard against people who hide their head in the sand then that is low standards. AFA healthcare goes I am actually happy that Obama shoved it down people's throats. Now maybe people will take notice and actually give some intelligent thought to healthcare. It was bad before and it's bad now. The only difference is that now it's a forced topic.

I agree his leadership is weak. But not when it comes from the two-sided mouth of a Republican. I guess Obama shoved healthcare down our throats with weak leadership. You can't have it both ways.

I agree with you that the govt is badly run and all politicians are liars. But IMO jumping from the frying pan into the fire is the best way to characterize supporting the GOP. Blaming Obama for the economy is ridiculous. The GOP doesn't exhibit a clue as to how to improve employment. It is however good at spinning lies that pass for good ideas to a lot of people.

LOL at the irony of a Republican valuing the opinions of the Iranian govt.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       01-07-2012, 11:58 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadunkle View Post
Yes, interesting list. Some is irrelevant or not significant and some is contradictory to the point attempting to be made. Regardless,look at those who this Obama is terrible. They cheer on their neocon candidate of choice, who are all the same. Obama has been a great neocon, so may as well vote for him if you're considering Newt/Romney/Santorum/etc. Then those folks can feel good about "winning" while we all have more money stolen from us by government and more of our rights violated.
+1
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       01-07-2012, 12:27 PM Reply   
Cliff, I read the link you posted concerning unemployment. I found this bit interesting,

"The unemployment rate in the United States fell to 8.5 percent in December of 2011, the lowest since February 2009. From 1948 until 2010 the United States' Unemployment Rate averaged 5.70 percent reaching an historical high of 10.80 percent in November of 1982".

While 8.5 percent unemployment is nothing to brag about, who was president in November of 1982? Isn't it the same name we here uttered at least 100 times during any GOP debate? We are always told we need to go back to the days of Reagan, what with 10.8% unemployment? Isn't it the same name that a top candidate brags about, being a Reagan-conservative? And if the manner in which the healthcare bill was past; the fact that it wasn't bipartisan, then how come all of the GOP candidates say nothing but they are going to repeal it instead of tinkering it and coming up with a bipartisan plan?
Old    Cliff (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       01-07-2012, 12:27 PM Reply   
to me it's more like out of the burn vat of molten lava and into the frying pan. I'm sure that many of you will start talking about what a failure Obama is once he isn't re-elected and accurate history starts to be written. oh, unless we leave out some things to be politically correct.

For the record, I am more anti Obama than pro anyone else.

To be clear, if you are referring to a Reagan Conservative as a Republican, then I guess I foot the bill. If it's today's idea of the GOP, then no, not me.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       01-07-2012, 12:33 PM Reply   
There we go again, someone claiming to be a Reagan-Conservative. Some minor research may show that Reagan was more moderate than most remember.
Old    Bruizza (bruizza)      Join Date: May 2009       01-07-2012, 12:55 PM Reply   
To answer you: The economy isn't any better. He hasn't addressed some of the issues that would stave off inflation. The corn ethanol situation for example. This piece of work directly affects me. I own a restaurant. Anything that has corn in it has skyrocketed in price.
Experts are now saying that another crash is coming. So much so that my business partner is completely out of the market.


I might not be following what you are getting at but the corn ethanol subsidies ended at the end of 2011.
Old    Cliff (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       01-07-2012, 1:05 PM Reply   
that's good to know, no more corn in gas?
I can admit when I'm wrong on a point.

call Reagan moderate, call him conservative, call him home for dinner, I don't care. That is what we need
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       01-07-2012, 1:25 PM Reply   
Reagan raised taxes four times between 82 and 84. Is that what we really need?
Old    Bruizza (bruizza)      Join Date: May 2009       01-07-2012, 1:31 PM Reply   
Unfortunately we still get corn in gas. Fortunately we don't have the govt paying corn farmers to grow corn for gas.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       01-07-2012, 1:38 PM Reply   
Corn should be more expensive considering it receives 40% of the agriculture subsidies that should not be paid. The reality is that non-essentials are going to take more and more hits in terms of keeping up with the essentials. HI for a family costs more than the roof over their head. Dining out is a non-essential. No matter how much value you offer for the money, there are other segments of the economy stealing your customers and opportunities from you.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       01-07-2012, 1:42 PM Reply   
Cliff the reason why Obama isn't getting called on his inadequacies is because the GOP isn't offering something better. If Republicans can't address the real issues with intellectual integrity, then Obama starts looking better than he is. It's like Alien vs Predator where the chick befriends the Predator for survival against the Aliens. Even after his kind killed half her mates.
Old    Cliff (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       01-08-2012, 9:24 AM Reply   
Jeremy
You are obviously more intelligent, more well read, articulate better, and have a greater degree of understanding of world economics and social order than I do. I hope that when you are my age you can enjoy a life time that has been full of financial, spiritual, and family success. I also hope that you maintain your moral ground that seems to drive you to save the world. This is not sarcasm.

I, however, am a pretty simple man, much like in the song from Lynyrd Skynard/Shinedown. I work hard to be a good provider for my family and I spend an exorbitant amount of time cultivating relationships in all aspects of my life. The present day political climate is pretty cut and dry for me.

I started working at the restaurant when I was 14 years old. My parents divorced. My mom brother and I moved to Texas. I watched her struggle. I went to school, played sports, went to work and studied into the night. This was my routine from my freshman to Senior year in high school. I bought my own clothes, paid for all my own stuff, and gave my mom money every week.

I went off to college but always went back home and helped my mom out. I also helped the restaurant out holidays and summers. After I graduated, I told the owner that I was headed to grad school unless he made me an offer that I couldn't refuse. He did.

So began the years of 100 hour weeks. When my wife and I had kids,(that I paid for through pregnancy and birth) she felt like a single parent. Live was not easy.
The hard work both at the job and at home paid off. The restaurant grew and grew and I (after many attempts) found the right combination of staff members that finally allowed me to work a normal restaurant 55 hour week.

The owners also held to his agreement and began to sell the store to me with the rights to open more.
I turn 48 this year, work 20 hours a week, go to every one of my kids sporting events and practices and wouldn't trade the path I chose for anything.

I only share this because, like many, our experiences in life are what shape our political and spiritual beliefs.

I am all for the moral responsibility of giving back to society and helping out your fellow man. Everybody should.
I just don't think that the federal government should make us contribute to charity or be the driving force behind all social programs. Charity should be something done on an individual bases.

I am not a fan of the rich paying more than the poor. I believe in a flat percentage for all. I know that you will argue this. I have seen it in other posts. That's just my take on it. I am even in favor of eliminating that tax loop holes and write-offs.
I worked hard to get to where I am. I don't want to give it up to those unwilling to work. Sorry. You won't change my mind on that. If that is immoral, my GOD will sort it out with me at a later time and place. I am not opposed to helping those out that can't help themselves, but not at a percentage that is different from anybody else.


Obama has publicly declared that he wants to redistribute wealth. He wants to take from the haves in order to help out the have nots. These are his words, not Glen Beck's, or any other talk show host that you don't like. I just don't agree with it. I have several examples in my life where someone was too lazy to work, couldn't work more than X hours or they wouldn't get government money, worked for a few days/weeks and tried to get fired so that they could (try) to collect unemployment...etc....

Obamacare, in my personal experience, is this sort a Robin Hood type of program. The way that he wanted it, was to fine businesses that didn't offer it to employees. Why is it my responsibility? There are also exemptions made to restaurants that change the menu to healthier ingredients. How is that fair and even? Would a small franchise operation even have a chance at the exemption?
I could go on for days about, immigration, e-verify, 940 taxes, compliance codes...etc....but I won't

Obama wants me and my business to take care of others at a rate that isn't even across the board. I don't want to. It's that simple.
I want him gone before the government makes it to difficult to stay in business. If my business were as big as GM, I guess I could always get a bailout......
I can already hear the arguments against what I've said. I have read the posts about this kind of thing. I don't care. You will believe what you will about me anyway. Perhaps there is someone on here that is more eloquent at conveying the same ideological point of view that I have. Maybe not.
sorry for the "rant" and the hijack

I'm out
Old    Jo Shmoe (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       01-08-2012, 4:21 PM Reply   
Ciff, 100 hour work weeks are for someone that didn't go to college, what was your degree in? I think you made your point very eloquently.
I can see why you vote republican and do not blame you for doing so. I can also see most of your employees who make less than minimum wage voting democratic and I don't blame them either.
"wouldn't trade the path I chose for anything" are you kidding me? your wife was a single parent just like your mom, is this what you want for your kids? I would have bought stock in apple and microsoft in the 80's, sold them just before each market crash and then buy them back at their low value, then spend all my time trying to develope the ultimate wake machine, if I had to do it all over again!
Sorry the government is screwing your business over, but it works like property tax, where everybody pays that lives inside the county limits. The government wants to collect from every employee or make sure everyone is covered so the employer is stuck.
Old    SamIngram            01-08-2012, 4:52 PM Reply   
WTF... Ciff, 100 hour work weeks are for someone that didn't go to college... Wow, pretty damn elitist...
Old    Meathead (meathead65)      Join Date: Sep 2006       01-08-2012, 5:32 PM Reply   
I try to stay out of political threads but I have to say that joschmoe's post was complete bs. Typical of the " I got a degree so you owe me a career" mindset of the current college crowd. The same ones who protest because college admission fees are to high. When did a taxpayer subsidized college education become a "right"? I personally think this country would be in much better shape if we had a few more guys with Cliff's mindset and work ethic running things rather than the silver spoon "bred to be a politician" bunch we are saddled with.
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       01-09-2012, 11:21 AM Reply   
http://www.youtube.com/embed/OAOrT0O...rch=0&showi%20
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       01-09-2012, 1:13 PM Reply   
^Oh god, not that goob again. David Williams posted one of his videos a few months ago and I couldn't get through 45 seconds.
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       01-09-2012, 1:30 PM Reply   
lol.
Old    Jo Shmoe (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       01-09-2012, 8:45 PM Reply   
"I try to stay out of political threads but I have to say that joschmoe's post was complete bs"
yah, looks like Cliff's time in college was a complete waste of time, he could have worked four more year at 100 hours a week, what a bunch of BS!
JS said "I think you made your point very eloquently" where's the BS there?
JS said "Sorry the government is screwing your business over" more BS??
JS said "The government wants to collect from every employee" no? then no BS there
Looks like JS post was not all BS, If you go to college and get a degree so you are paid more money, then you do not have to work as many hours to make it. If you want to work your life away, you better really enjoy your work. Then Meathead states some BS about complaining about admission fees and some more BS about college being a right.

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