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Old     (92Maristar)      Join Date: Mar 2010       01-03-2012, 2:19 AM Reply   
Looks like MC brought back the X30 with a new hull and are calling it their new Surf Boat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYeIFrblcJg

Last edited by 92Maristar; 01-03-2012 at 2:26 AM.
Old    John James (johnboyy7)      Join Date: Apr 2011       01-03-2012, 3:28 AM Reply   
nice looking wave for 400lbs. i wonder what the push is like. wish he wasnt riding a pier.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       01-03-2012, 3:59 AM Reply   
That's factory plus 400 lb sac.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       01-03-2012, 9:41 AM Reply   
The shape looks nice, other than that mush all over the lip. If that could be dialed out, looks like a fun boat.
Old     (92Maristar)      Join Date: Mar 2010       01-03-2012, 10:23 AM Reply   
The wave to me in very small. Yes, it is probably about 700 lbs total and has room for 1500 concealed. I'm hoping the new hull will lend itself to a nice wave. Zane is on the record for saying surf tabs add length to this wave, but I doubt that is the case. In every test I've seen it tabs may shape the face but wont make a wave bigger or longer. The part that I do not like and think is just marketing is when Zane says they gave the back of the boat a little flatter surface so you could waterski behind it. NO ONE is going to be buying this boat to ski behind. They should have went all in on a surf boat and add what could be done to make it a good wakeboard boat as well.

Good looking boat and I love the fact that it is not a pickle fork!! I'm also glad they did not put in the rumble seats in the back deck like on the X25. I watch another video that showed you can order it with the reversible rear set which I think is cool.
Old    Bryan Locke (gwnkids)      Join Date: Nov 2003       01-03-2012, 12:40 PM Reply   
I like the split screen at the end
Robert maybe you could do the same thing with the new Tige
Old    Show (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       01-03-2012, 3:17 PM Reply   
The wake from the non-surfing side isnít staying on its side of the wake. Thatís making the top look mushy on both sides. The goofy side looks better than regular. Is the swim platform or some kind of prop thrust or something is creating a small spray on the both sides (worse on the regular side than the goofy side)?

I would have had someone work on making the wake look better if I was going to use this video to promote this boat as a surf machine. That video is on the internet now and wonít go away, why rush do it right and make the right impression.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       01-03-2012, 5:54 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwnkids View Post
I like the split screen at the end
Robert maybe you could do the same thing with the new Tige
You killing me man, of course we can do split screen. ;-)

Didn't you see the "long wake" video we did? Experimenting with weight and speed on the RZ2, we actually did QUAD screen, and I am not afraid to kick it up a notch. ;-)

On a side note, its great to see all of this effort from the manufacturers re: wakesurfing, love it.
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       01-03-2012, 6:09 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshow View Post
The wake from the non-surfing side isnít staying on its side of the wake. Thatís making the top look mushy on both sides. The goofy side looks better than regular. Is the swim platform or some kind of prop thrust or something is creating a small spray on the both sides (worse on the regular side than the goofy side)?

I would have had someone work on making the wake look better if I was going to use this video to promote this boat as a surf machine. That video is on the internet now and wonít go away, why rush do it right and make the right impression.
I could not agree more. If that surf wave is the best of the MC lineup, MC had better get to work fast.
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       01-03-2012, 6:11 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragboy View Post

On a side note, its great to see all of this effort from the manufacturers re: wakesurfing, love it.
Very true.

Also, I even heard Nati is coming out with a bigger boat geared towards surfing. Anybody else hear that?
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       01-03-2012, 9:51 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakesurfer View Post
I could not agree more. If that surf wave is the best of the MC lineup, MC had better get to work fast.
Only thing I would add is that a lot of manufacturers don't really know how to make a "weekend warrior"/competition surf wake. (Borrowing that weekend warrior term from you, I like it.) The fact that he is riding that CWB ride kinda gives that away a bit. If that is really stock with only 400 lbs, I would give the boat the benefit of the doubt that it can be dialed better. Maybe not, but the shape underneath that mush looks promising.

Reminds me of a video I watched this summer. It was a malibu or axis factory video but can't remember which. Good music, and good surfing, showed a good wake on both sides, it caught my attention. All the angles were low and close. Then at the end, they do this zoom out view from above, from a helicopter and you can see they are making a huge circle to get the wake. The funny thing is they used that helicopter shot to show the cool wake in a circle, seemingly not knowing that a decent wake surfer is not going to see that as a good thing. No offense to malibu or axis, I just remember finding that funny seeing the big circle purposely glorified. Can't find the video, though, and its bugging me. Things like this keep me up at night....
Old    doug rose (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       01-04-2012, 6:00 AM Reply   
i hope the wake rocks, although i will probably never buy a mc. the more aggressive the wakes get, the more research the other companies will put into there design to make a better surf wake. Its good for everyone
Old    - (Txjole)      Join Date: Dec 2011       01-04-2012, 8:26 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakesurfer View Post
Very true.

Also, I even heard Nati is coming out with a bigger boat geared towards surfing. Anybody else hear that?
Nautique has something new coming out this year but lips are tight as to what it is.
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       01-04-2012, 9:37 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Txjole View Post
Nautique has something new coming out this year but lips are tight as to what it is.
I heard it was a 24' at 102in wide. I that was just in passing so it could be totally wrong.
Old    Mike V (vman)      Join Date: Jun 2010       01-04-2012, 12:00 PM Reply   
I am a MC owner and very happy with my X45. I have been able to dial in a sizable surf wake, however, it took much more than stock + 400. I am disappointed that MC decided to tout this boat as their "surf machine". I figured they would wait until the new Xstar came on line and tweeked that boat for surfing. You would think MC would have done a better job at "unveiling" their "surf machine" by studying some footage of the top surf boats and emulate those surf wakes. And, yes, how about spending a little more money on the board you ride behind that big expensive boat. Just saying.
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       01-04-2012, 12:19 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragboy View Post
Only thing I would add is that a lot of manufacturers don't really know how to make a "weekend warrior"/competition surf wake. (Borrowing that weekend warrior term from you, I like it.)
I dont buy it. You would have had to had your head in the sand the last 4 years. However, if that is the case MC needs (1) fire the person that said they know what a surf wave is and (2) hire someone that does.

Also, I actually think the boat has promise (not going to be great, but very surfable and probably could be dialed in much better). But why would MC put that video out there. From a pure marketing standpoint, just dumb.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       01-04-2012, 1:08 PM Reply   
I won't name names other than to say this example is not tige and not centurion. I get dealers that call me or sometimes I visit a dealer for various reasons, yada yada...

This dealer is thinking about carrying a particular brand of boat, a boat that arguably makes a very good to great surf wake, and one that RJ and I have had the opportunity to test/demo. The dealer had a demo done for him with a rep and a high level exec from the factory and the dealer called me back and said he wasn't going to carry the boat, because it has a crappy wake, and he described it. Now this dealer was not a normal dealer, he knows a good surf wake, and is a decent surfer himself. So I called the manufacturer and gave them a heads up, and told them who to contact to learn how to weight that boat. Thats a good example, but I haven't only seen that kind of thing once. That's the only example I can really share, as not to embarrass anyone, but its frequent. I imagine over time, it will happen less and less.

As far as the Gen-4 XStar, it looks they have done a ton of work to make an amazing wakeboard boat. I don't think that thing is going to surf though. I have always been fascinated by how hull design effects the surf wake, and am by no means any expert, just like to look at a wake, look at the hull, and compare to others and think about how different aspects may affect the wake. I think I have burned through a cigar or 2 at a campfire or 2 with a few of you pontificating on those ideas. ;-) Getting the opportunity to share some of those thoughts with Tige and the R&D done on the Z3 stepped that further. They listened to what we said, but also tried and implemented some things that we wouldn't have thought of. They had the benefit of an R&D platform to test out those ideas, pretty frickin cool. But after that learning experience, and seeing the pictures I have seen of that hull, I can't see how it would make a decent surf wake. These are the pictures I am referring to, for reference.





Again, still very cool to see manufacturers doing this type of R&D.
Old    JF (inland_surfer)      Join Date: Aug 2002       01-04-2012, 5:10 PM Reply   
This should to get folks riled up - Its to bad its taken 10 + years for certain manufactures to get on the ball - yet they still don't get it ! Party ON
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       01-04-2012, 6:26 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Txjole View Post
Nautique has something new coming out this year but lips are tight as to what it is.
Will be very interested to see what length and width the "surf boat" is and more so what it will cost, very interesting how Zane kept talking about flatening out the back, every good surf boat I've even seen has a deep V transome, just sayin, am I missing something?
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       01-04-2012, 8:33 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragboy View Post
Only thing I would add is that a lot of manufacturers don't really know how to make a "weekend warrior"/competition surf wake. (Borrowing that weekend warrior term from you, I like it.).
Well I created the "weekend warrior" and "equal opportunity" wave phrase just for you

BTW: I am currently working in Santa Barbara, CA. How far am I from you? Are you guys still surfing?
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       01-04-2012, 8:42 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by surffresh View Post
Will be very interested to see what length and width the "surf boat" is
I have my Enzo 244 serviced by a Nati dealer (PMC engines) and they very briefly mentioned they were coming out with a bigger boat to compete with Bu 247/Enzo 244/Tige RZ4, etc on size/surfing. The Nati 230 actually has a pretty nice wave (just needs some weight) so if they are actually coming out with a bigger boat I would assume the wave will be nice.

Now with all of that said, I will probably want to puke on the price.
Old    Matt (duramat)      Join Date: Feb 2008       01-04-2012, 8:54 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakesurfer View Post
I have my Enzo 244 serviced by a Nati dealer (PMC engines) and they very briefly mentioned they were coming out with a bigger boat to compete with Bu 247/Enzo 244/Tige RZ4, etc on size/surfing. The Nati 230 actually has a pretty nice wave (just needs some weight) so if they are actually coming out with a bigger boat I would assume the wave will be nice.

Now with all of that said, I will probably want to puke on the price.
"Of course the rates have gone up"- Igor smiling (Young Frankenstien) ...Favorite comedy of mine
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       01-04-2012, 11:06 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by duramat View Post
"Of course the rates have gone up"- Igor smiling (Young Frankenstien) ...Favorite comedy of mine
"Well, that goes without saying." (same movie, one of mine too.)

@lakesurfer, you are about 7 hours away, but maybe closer than you will ever be. We are going out on Saturday on the RZ4, Dennis and Frank/Chris will be there, and RJ of course. Who knows, maybe we can twist mitch's arm up here...

Anyway, room for one more, I am sure we could find a wetsuit if you told us the size and we have plenty of boards. No joke, let me know. You could drive up as late as you want on Friday night and stay in our guest house. We are going to have a famous wake9 dinner and probably fireside smoke and listen to Frank and I embarrass ourselves. You can then stay over and drive back on Sunday but you may have to share a bed with Dennis or Frank. Its not too bad, just if Frank gets a bit randy in his sleep, its best to not wake him and just go with it. ;-)

Its a real offer, we have plenty of room on the boat and on the property, and plenty of food and cigars. If you enjoy a good cigar, my humidor will make your pants tight.

Saturday still showing sunny and about 60 deg, doesn't' get better than that in January.
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       01-05-2012, 9:34 AM Reply   
@Ragboy: thanks for the invite, but I am tied up every weekend for the next few months. If I am still in CA in the Spring, I will take you up on your offer. Sorry I am going to miss it. Sounds like you guys will have a great time.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       01-05-2012, 12:16 PM Reply   
np, would have been fun.
Old    Lionel (lionel)      Join Date: Nov 2005       01-06-2012, 9:56 PM Reply   
You guys see X-Star R & D? Click on video with the white boat:

http://www.mastercraft.com/boats/media/xstar
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       01-06-2012, 10:12 PM Reply   
Thats a very cool video. Love the R&D stuff.

Lets see if this works...








Last edited by ragboy; 01-06-2012 at 10:15 PM.
Old    Show (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       01-07-2012, 3:03 PM Reply   
So, they know how to do wakeboard research...how about putting a little effort in to Wakesurf research?
Old     (92Maristar)      Join Date: Mar 2010       01-07-2012, 3:22 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakesurfer View Post
I could not agree more. If that surf wave is the best of the MC lineup, MC had better get to work fast.
You're joking right? About 700 lbs is all that's in this boat. Sure, it's a small wave but it's not set up any where near what it can be. Is it going to be the best of all the boats out there? We don't know. No one has one to work with yet.

Last edited by 92Maristar; 01-07-2012 at 3:28 PM.
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       01-07-2012, 6:34 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 92Maristar View Post
You're joking right? About 700 lbs is all that's in this boat. Sure, it's a small wave but it's not set up any where near what it can be. Is it going to be the best of all the boats out there? We don't know. No one has one to work with yet.
Actually, the vid says stock ballast plus 400. If that is only 700lbs you are making my point. Who would pay what MC wants for that boat and the stock surf set up is only 300lbs. The new Tiges, Bu, Centurions, MBs, etc come with nearly 2,500lbs of ballast stock. You can actually order a Centurion now with 4,000lbs of ballast all under the seats. Ballast that is set for surfing.

In addition, you would think that from a marketing standpoint, that MC would want to illustrate the best possible wave. I am sure you can better a much better wave out of the boat (you can see the potential) but the wave in the vid is not a great wave at all.

If I am in the market for a $100K, I dont want to have to spend 3 months figuring out to get the surf wave dialed in. There are to many other boats on the market that have already proven waves with manufacturers that are working hard to promote surfing.
Old    Jon Hunter (hunter660)      Join Date: Aug 2007       01-08-2012, 7:40 AM Reply   
Just because MC says it is their best surf boat does not mean its any better than anything else out there.
Old    Mike V (vman)      Join Date: Jun 2010       01-08-2012, 10:18 AM Reply   
I have to agree with lakesurfer....MC makes a great quality wakeboard boat that puts out an amazing wake. However, I see the company being left behind in the wakesurf market. I have a hard time believing that in this economy MC is not incorporating some of the hull designs and ballast innovations of the other well known manufacturers. They will need to do this in order to target the wakesurf community. Maybe they feel the wakesurfing demand is not aggressive enough to spend the money to incorporate these options. Or liability fears? Arrogance? Maybe their international sales more than make up for the need to target a single component. In any event, my next wakesurf platform will not be a MC....Unless, something amazing comes out of the '12 Xstar.
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       01-08-2012, 11:32 AM Reply   
I actually think highly of MC boats. My very 1st boat was a 1997 MC 205. I just dont understand why MC would release that video at all.

BTW, if I worked at MC I would have sent my "R&D" group out on the lake with an X25 and told them to dial the surf wave in. I have never ridden on an X25, but I went through one last year at the boat show and that boat was awesome. It is built on a their off-shore deep V-hull with a lot of storage/deep lockers. The X25 (but much more refined interior, engine, etc) reminded me a lot of a Supreme 226, which has an awesome surf wave. So I just cant imagine that the X25 would not have a very nice surf wave as well.

Last edited by lakesurfer; 01-08-2012 at 11:35 AM.
Old    Dan (hco)      Join Date: Jun 2006       01-08-2012, 8:42 PM Reply   
jkw- I have been able to surf a 25 for the past two summers and each time we have factory, tabs, and another 1500-1600 lbs of ballast and the surf wave is great, but the large platforms make it a little ugly sometimes.
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       01-09-2012, 1:40 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by hco View Post
jkw- I have been able to surf a 25 for the past two summers and each time we have factory, tabs, and another 1500-1600 lbs of ballast and the surf wave is great, but the large platforms make it a little ugly sometimes.
Ok, so that is an easy fix. MC should offer an option for a "surf" swim deck. Should take the "R&D" department about an hour to create - smaller with round edges and a flat/smooth bottom. That or they could just copy one of the other manufacturers swim decks.

Either way, I really do believe the X25 could be a great surf boat.
Old     (jbkriss)      Join Date: Mar 2011       01-10-2012, 11:05 AM Reply   
It's a little weird to hear ZS say that they've flattened out the back of the boat's hull when riders know V hulls produce the best surf wakes yet the new X30 is now the best surf boat in the MC line. The X25 has a V from bow to stern and to this point was their best surf boat. Just a little contradicting.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       01-11-2012, 12:56 PM Reply   
So I have been working on 2012 stuff for wake9, and going to blog about some cool stuff and also thinking about this thread and the general topic of Wakesurf R&D and the various manufacturers. But this whole "flat" thing caught my eye, because I honestly didn't know what it was referring to. But then I rewatched the 2 above videos to see if I missed something, and then realized the first video was like a part 2, and this was part 1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0NdtXuAlSE

OK, so NOW I heard him talk about flattening the back of the boat. I agree, that sounds weird. To promote wakesurfing and say you can ski behind it also seems strange. I mean, you can ski behind anything, but will you enjoy it? ;-)

So I haven't seen any images of this boat from the rear or the along the bottom of the hull, and I know we all probably agree that V bottom is going to be much better for surfing than flat. I would argue, though, that there probably is a point where too much V could hurt, but I don't think MC or BU have been anywhere near that, so I don't think that applies.

So could he be talking about flat the other way? Longitudinally or lengthwise? I think the future of Wakesurf boats is not just going to be height, length and push but also adjustability and ease of weighting. I would go even further to say our involvement in the R&D process with Tige and the new 2012 Z3 was completely focused on this. I took video samples of riders and met with tige at length. I think tige has sort of a "ace in the hole" with this one with the Convex V hull, which I talked about in the Z3 R&D thread when someone asked about taps. Removing the hook at the back of the hull and probably removing any type of stepped surfaces that pocket air to make the boat faster on the top of the water or plane better are going to be steps in the right direction. I also have pondered if that Convex V/Non-planing hull have anything to do with the fact that the Tige makes a great wake on both sides with the same effort, but I really don't know, just wondering.

Those kinds of changes aren't going to help at all with any ski wake, I would imagine. Anyway, I can't think he means taking out V, that just sounds wrong, he's gotta be talking longitudinally, right?

All that to say, I love our Tige wake, you love your Centurion, MB, Sanger, Supreme, etc wake. I say "Welcome!" to Mastercraft. They have the resources, they are going to start producing some good wakesurf boats, and I am sure Malibu will step it up also, because wakesurfing sells boats and they have the budgets to do it. The message is clear. Tige, Centurion, Sanger, etc can't rely on hulls from the past that happen to surf. R&D to create cooler automated ballast systems and wake plates for these same hulls is not going to be good enough. It is going to take serious hull R&D and innovation to make the best wakesurf boat. I know they are doing that at Tige, and I hope the other companies are also, because that just makes it better for us "Weekend Warriors" ( <--lakesurfer should ™ this). The wakes are just going to get better and more adjustable easier to make and I can't wait start putting the new Z3 through its paces. I also can't wait to see how the X30 really does when weighted and surfed by someone in this community, and will be very thrilled if it does make a great wake on both sides with the same effort, being the equal opportunity guy that I am. ;-)

2012 is going to be a good for wakesurfing and wake surfers. I hope its marked by huge innovations in wakesurfing.
Old    Dirk Walden (wakewoody)      Join Date: Sep 2010       01-11-2012, 6:56 PM Reply   
I have been told that Malibu is working on some kind of vertical trim tabs to make their boats list without weighting one side. Iam told it will come out late next summer.
Old     (jbkriss)      Join Date: Mar 2011       01-12-2012, 8:42 AM Reply   
I looked again at the 2012 X-Star video above posted by Ragboy... check the 3:38 mark where they're pulling it out of the water. You can see a pretty serious V on the back of that 2012 X-star hull. Then a wake plate at the bottom of the V. Stands to reason that it should surf a lot better than the previous model which was flat and had that box in the back.
Old    Petr (hawaj)      Join Date: Aug 2005       01-16-2012, 9:00 PM Reply   
I was watching thier "pro" wakesurf rider and he is just hilarious
No wonder they are so late with their development.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYeIFrblcJg
Old    Nick911            01-16-2012, 9:21 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawaj View Post
I was watching thier "pro" wakesurf rider and he is just hilarious
No wonder they are so late with their development.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYeIFrblcJg
That's Zane Schwenk surfing back there. I'm sure you're much better than him. I'll call Mastercraft tomorrow and tell them to hire you as their new spokesman.
Old    Petr (hawaj)      Join Date: Aug 2005       01-24-2012, 11:03 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick911 View Post
That's Zane Schwenk surfing back there. I'm sure you're much better than him. I'll call Mastercraft tomorrow and tell them to hire you as their new spokesman.
Dont worry Nick I know very well who he is, but they definitelly should hire some top wakesurfers to promote their boats then showing Zane riding the wave without any airs or fancy tricks. That was my only point. Good picture or video is worth 1000 words
If they want to be top notch company, they should hire top notch wakesurfers... but maybe they just dont care ...
Old    Petr (hawaj)      Join Date: Aug 2005       01-24-2012, 11:17 PM Reply   
I really wonder, if any boatmaker ever collaborated with any best wakesurfers on development of best possible boat hull for wakesurfng or they think that they just dont need us?
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-25-2012, 8:11 AM Reply   
Tige and Centurion have talked to me about mods etc... before. I don't think they will ever put out a boat with enough ballast because of lawsuits etc...
Old    Petr (hawaj)      Join Date: Aug 2005       01-25-2012, 6:55 PM Reply   
Pretty interesting that boatmakers sell tons of boats to the thousands of wakesurfers and there is barely any continuous development and testing in colaboration with riders! Who else should now better what is best for us?

Today boats are just compromise between family weekend cruiser, party floating device, backyard pond speed boat, machine for towing inflatables gadgets and some wakeboarding, waterskiing and wakesurfing. It still looks like nobody wants to push the envelope to create some outstanding non compromise surfmachine. Itīs still rather about puting more bell and whisels and changing graphics then about some radical hull design. I dont think its the only a matter of putting more weight in boat.
Old    Petr (hawaj)      Join Date: Aug 2005       01-25-2012, 7:11 PM Reply   
Although I must say that boat performance and design made huge leap over last 10 years, there is still plenty of room for decent surf wave.

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