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Old    Hate2party (slipknot)      Join Date: Aug 2001       11-10-2011, 10:27 AM Reply   
come ride my MB, I will blow your knees out
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       11-10-2011, 10:52 AM Reply   
Boats are like girls, everybody has different taste and different budgets. But they all have the same key features that can get the job done. The rest is just lipstick and boob jobs.
Old    Travis Fleming (brazosfreak05)      Join Date: May 2009       11-10-2011, 11:02 AM Reply   
hate2party do you have any pics of the wake?
Old    Brandon Zubke (bzubke1)      Join Date: Feb 2010       11-10-2011, 11:21 AM Reply   
Go take a lesson with brian sasser at texas mastercraft. He uses a mb sports f21 tomcat for his school boat. The wake is really nice with only stock ballast but you have to be careful judging the wake cause there's areas of the lake that are really shallow and just a couple that are deep enough to get the wake to shape up. In the deep parts it is really nice for stock ballast.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       11-10-2011, 11:51 AM Reply   
I don't like my 23' twb with FULL ballast because it's too vert for my skill set. Half full, for me, it's money. 23 mph @ 70':





Here's another at 65' and 21.5mph, again, half full:



I haven't ridden an xstar so cannot compare.

Last edited by shawndoggy; 11-10-2011 at 11:59 AM.
Old    Bruizza (bruizza)      Join Date: May 2009       11-10-2011, 12:06 PM Reply   
I have ridden behind an X Star with stock ballast and 750s full in the rear. MB F21 with stock ballast and a 23 TWB with stock ballast plus a 500lb bag up front.

X Star is meaty and rampy. So much fun to ride. The back was so loaded down it made it fairly steep as well. Rode this set up quite a few times over the summer. I would always finish my set with a smile on my face.

F21 Nice steep shape that shoots you to the moon and then back down on the other side. I wish I had more time to ride this wake but it just wasn't in the cards.

TWB 23 very similar to the F21 only bigger and IMHO a bit more fun. Felt like it shot me up to mars or somewhere before landing oh so gently and smoothly on the other side. I am not sure if there is a better feeling than being sent to the heavens then that smooth landing on the other side.

I would be content with any of these boats/wakes. So as has been mentioned a bunch of times get out and demo them. For my money I would go TWB 23. It is absolutely huge inside. The X Star would start getting cramped when we had 6 or so people on it. I could see the same happening with the F21. We routinely take out 6-8 people when we head out so the room the TWB 23 has would be sweet.
Old    Travis Fleming (brazosfreak05)      Join Date: May 2009       11-10-2011, 12:34 PM Reply   
Sasser is using an MB now? Last time i was out there he was using the xstar. He even put additional weight in it for me. Maybe ill get him to let me demo a 23twb. Texas Mastercraft is also a MB dealer so they are both right there close to me. The more people keep hyping up the MB the more i want to get out and ride one. Does anyone in the DFW are want to take me out on their MB? I just want to experience the wake that they have.
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       11-10-2011, 1:41 PM Reply   
Every picture I have ever seen of the MB wake is amazingly clean and they all look the same, they must be doing something right!
Old    Brad Riddick (riddick)      Join Date: Jan 2010       11-10-2011, 2:41 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tampawake View Post
Who the hell really knows what the 2012 X star wake is really like.
Its awesome!

I have been lucky enough to ride behind several MBs the V23 and Tomcat as well as all of the x-star's including the new 2012 star. In being a big MC fan, my opinion will be very biased. So the best advise to give to you is to go spend as much time as you can on each boat, both riding and driving, and base your decision on that.

If you do get the opportunity to go out and ride an x-star, ride one with the pro ballast setup. That wake is one of my personal favorites.

Good luck with your boat search.
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       11-10-2011, 3:59 PM Reply   
###
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
88k out the door for an X2 vs under 60k for an RZR , both 20 feet similar options...
Tige is still way less expensive than any MC around here by almost 30 grand...
but we aren’t talking price. we're talking wake and its apples to apples with any boat in the size range, MB, CC, Tige, Malibu, Supra, Axis, Moomba...
I can tell you an equally optioned rzr is not 28k less than an X2. I just priced these to boats along with an LSV out. Equally optioned RZR is around 80k With RZ2 tower and the bells and whistles equally optioned as the X2.

This thread is absurd. WOW I can't believe all the responses from people who have no experience with both brands. All they go off is hype and prices. People still think moombas are hunks of crap here. Anyone been in one since 2007. Most companies put out great boats with different emphasis on different points. If you ask me the biggest tub of crap on the water today is Axis. Yet you read all the hype and threads here about them you would never know.........why because the price is right and marketing has led the charge.


I have been in both the X Star not 2012 yet and an MB. Been in Ian’s a couple times and 2 of my riding crew each own one. The X-star wake is unique as is every other boats. Where everyone is getting its mellow I have no clue. It's all in how you weight it. Sure the 230 will have a bit more kick due to its steepness and hull shape, but and X Star wake is not mellow. The MB wake also has a bit more vert to it than the Star as well. So depends on what the op in looking for.


Now own to the useless info not geared towards his question.
MB vs MC boils down to name history, frills and accessories. NOT BUILD QUALITY
How many have been to both factories and taken tours? Anyone know exactly what sets MC, CC apart and makes them over the top?

Most companies use similar powerplants, gauges, vinyl, carpet, gelcoat. Unlike the car world there aren't many different mfg's of those previous stated components. Mastercraft has a huge pocketbook and a long running name. They have had their fair share of POS boats along the line. Their pro staff/ riders, R&D, pocketbook and cash flow is endless for the most part. They have the tour, advertising, the legacy and that stuff doesn’t run cheap.

You get things like pop up screens, Illmor pwerplants, billet, billet and more billet. They have the R&D cash to develop tons of new tools, gadgets, and hulls. They along with the other big 2 will always have this edge purely based on their legacy and cash flows associated with their names. Do they lead the way with innovations........in most cases yes and when the other smaller companies actually come up with great things they just don't have the marketing or advertising to get things out there.

Put an MB build next to an MC build in purely powerplants, vinyl, carpet, gauges(well I guess no longer gauges as were are talking computer screens these days) tranny's, ballast pumps, and gelcoat........ both are quality builds. Neither one is going to fall apart or be a pos. Mc has had all kinds of issues with their ballast systems and timers, spider cracks and tower sway to name a few. They are a nightmare to reprogram and trouble shoot. The reason for the 20k-30k price differences isn't because its 20-30k of build quality its because of the accessories, the bling, r&d and the WOW factor. Comparing MB's to MC as Ferraris and Mustangs is absolutely laughable. Not even close. To close this part out I will say this to get everyone going..........I think more attention is given to each MB build then to an MC build after touring both factories. Way more attention paid to each step in the MB factory.


I could pull up in a brand new MB and get a holy @#$ with a wow factor. Same with an MC however once my MC computerized dash popped up, my Illmor engine hatch popped up, and the billet Powertower functioned heads would spin around in circles. All those will set it apart for sure and that is what you get for spending more cash as you should. You get a few more stainless backing plates and reinforcements under the dash at certain points but overall the quality of the hull, powerplants, vinyl, and "boat necessity stuff" is similar.

If MB pulled the Pro Tour and had the amount of team riders MC had spewing how great the wake is and MC didn't we would all be bragging how great MB is. Mc doesn’t own the tour because it is hands down the best boat.......they own the tour because they shell out the most cash to buy and sponsor the event. Pros are paid to say "the boats wake is killer, its the biggest and baddest." They are getting a boat for free......they aren't going to say it sucks and they sure as hell aren't going to say that another rival's company's wake is just as huge. I would put a Supra 24V a CC230 an MB F23, a Moomba XLV a Tige RZ4 and a Bu 247 all right next to each other sacked out and all will kick up walls of water that will make peoples eyes buldge and be capable of pulling any pro tour. So guess what, daddy who wants his kid to go pro and compete on the tour is going to go to the dealer and buy his kid the boat the pros use. That’s the way it works. Or people who want to tell their friends they have what the pros have will do the same its all about status, not functionality and quality. It's gotta be the best cuz the pros use it and it has adds everywhere. Guess what it if was truly the best hands down no pro would ride anything but that boat right? Why settle if you are a pro?


Believe it or not, anyone in the industry of selling the top 3 knows how different their customers are that walk through the door than those of the other brands, at least here in the midwest region for sure. We are talking businessmen and people with pocket books, a good majority unresearched customers, there cuz a friend told them along with the Waterski Mags Buyers guide that this brand was the cream de la crem . A majority of the high priced boats are bought as family boats or because junior wants what the pros have. At the dealerships I have been affiliated with I would put it on a percentage of around 60 or so of buyers that walked into the MC or CC dealer and paid outright cash for the boats and never owned a previous model.......maybe even a bit more, however when I was the Centurion rep 80-90 percent financed their boats. Its a whole different mindset and attitude with buyers of each as well. I had the pleasure to work at a Centurion and CC dealer. 99.9% of the time I could tell walking through the door the Centurion customer Vs the CC customer. By no means am I saying one is better than the other or dogging on CC customers or big 3 customers, it was just apparent.

I have rambled and rambled. I am on a bunch of Norco and other meds just having shoulder reconstruction so it may be a rambled mess. I am just tired of hearing everyon chest bumping and spewing BS based on marketing and adds vs actual comparison. Almost every thread these days ends up being a bashing thread and guys with a brand new big 3 boat saying everything else is garbage.

If you ask me the 03 -2011 X Star is the most one dimensional boat on the market and I am actually surprised at how long it lasted. It purely lived off the name and hype. 03-5 I would argue a huge game changer however after that most companies had boats that could compete with the level of wake it was producing. THe only reason it is even considered the gold standard is because more people are paid to get it out there that it is. Simple as that. To me bling, gadgets and billet dont set the gold standard. Build quality and the components used do, and a good majority of mfg's are making quality built boats that can compete any day against each other if you took the bling, gadgets, and billet out. What you pay for these days is the innovation, gadgets, r&d, and team salaries. Some think its worth the extra cash others don't. Me I don't need the bling

Last edited by xstarrider; 11-10-2011 at 4:06 PM.
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       11-10-2011, 4:08 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakesurfer View Post
Boats are like girls, everybody has different taste and different budgets. But they all have the same key features that can get the job done. The rest is just lipstick and boob jobs.
That is the best quote i have ever heard AWESOME

I may steal that and use it as my own HAHAHAHA
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       11-10-2011, 5:33 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
###

I can tell you an equally optioned rzr is not 28k less than an X2. I just priced these to boats along with an LSV out. Equally optioned RZR is around 80k With RZ2 tower and the bells and whistles equally optioned as the X2.
Wow thats shocking, my dealers pricing is significantly lower than that 80k figure slight hijack aside I agree with what you've said 110%. good way to sum it up.
Old    Harold Hemming (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       11-10-2011, 6:23 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakesurfer View Post
Boats are like girls, everybody has different taste and different budgets. But they all have the same key features that can get the job done. The rest is just lipstick and boob jobs.
My thoughts exactly Lake
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       11-10-2011, 6:28 PM Reply   
Well that's the sticker.....who knows how much they are actually going to sell for. Also they are only Tige dealer in roughly 1k miles and just picked up the line. An rz4 optioned out was 112. I really was considering RZR was fig around 55-60k for decently optioned out one. Like I said about fell over. I can only assume you are out west in their more prominant dealer network. We end up on Avg paying 7-15k more depending on boats compared to prices out west purely due to availability and lack of competitor dealerships with other lines. Used boats too run 5-9k more
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       11-10-2011, 6:45 PM Reply   
10-14-2011, 01:05 AM
Nick911
TT Enthusiast Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 105

Tow tube from ski pole or rear step?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So what's the deal? You tow a tube from the rear step above the platform
or from ski pole? The boat in question is an X25.



All the hating on MB coming from the guy who doesnt know where to tow his tube from..........yet he is a boat quality expert Also just came off an 194 Monterey. Yea keep drinking the kool aid buddy. Man your chest must hurt

Last edited by xstarrider; 11-10-2011 at 6:54 PM.
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       11-10-2011, 7:04 PM Reply   
double post

Last edited by xstarrider; 11-10-2011 at 7:06 PM.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       11-10-2011, 7:19 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
10-14-2011, 01:05 AM
Nick911
TT Enthusiast Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 105

Tow tube from ski pole or rear step?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So what's the deal? You tow a tube from the rear step above the platform
or from ski pole? The boat in question is an X25.



All the hating on MB coming from the guy who doesnt know where to tow his tube from..........yet he is a boat quality expert Also just came off an 194 Monterey. Yea keep drinking the kool aid buddy. Man your chest must hurt


Haha
Old    Nick911            11-10-2011, 7:35 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by polarbill View Post
Haha
Valid question, the 25's rear step has a tow hook on it and is lower to the ground, thought it might be a better pull?
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       11-10-2011, 7:50 PM Reply   
Dude you have been ousted. First you allegedly bought an x 15 in Oct and now you buying a new 25. Which is it? I can go on and on w your newb posts which speak volumes of what u have no clue about. The fact you think that is a valid question speaks volumes itself. Thanks for playing. Enjoy your MC.

Last edited by xstarrider; 11-10-2011 at 7:56 PM.
Old    Nick911            11-10-2011, 7:58 PM Reply   
Look, definitely not trying to come off like a snob, I was in the market and shopped around. I did not have a set budget and would have, like anyone, preferred to spend less money. Though I can't honestly make any wake comparisons, I chose MC narrowly over Tige and Centurion, all in generally the same cost bracket. I've outlined some of my reasons in another thread. Essentially I perceived a higher level quality in these boats. Admittedly I was harsh in this thread and came off as elitist.

At any rate, didn't mean (though I did) to insult MB or their owners. Clearly the outpouring of support here for MB means they have a great product and great following.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       11-10-2011, 8:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick911
I can't honestly make any wake comparisons.
Funny because you stated stock wake quality as one fo the main reasons you chose the X25.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick911
So what's the deal? You tow a tube from the rear step above the platform
or from ski pole? The boat in question is an X25.
I appreciate your appology above. It shows class. But this quote about tubing made me laugh hard. One of the funniest "pwned" moments on Wakeworld in a long time. I hope you can appreciate the humor too.

Old    Craig Emerton (craigtxmc)      Join Date: Oct 2008       11-10-2011, 8:35 PM Reply   
Both brands build great boats! Honestly, the best way to make sure you aren't missing out is to buy a new MasterCraft AND a new MB. It just so happens that I can help with that. My number is 555-1212... Ha.
Just kidding guys!
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       11-10-2011, 8:38 PM Reply   
^^^ LoL, Craig. Problem solved!

You know what would make this thread perfect...? Why don't you post BLACK pics of both MB and MC. You know which boats I'm referring too.
Old    Nick911            11-10-2011, 8:40 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ixfe View Post
Funny because you stated stock wake quality as one fo the main reasons you chose the X25.




I appreciate your appology above. It shows class. But this quote about tubing made me laugh hard. One of the funniest "pwned" moments on Wakeworld in a long time. I hope you can appreciate the humor too.

Guess I dont see the humor in the question, which, is probably why it's so funny.

I re-read the tread and I do really come of as a douche so I deserve it all I guess.

Sooooooo...which is it, rear step on MC about 8 inches above platform or ski pole for towing tube?
Old    Craig Emerton (craigtxmc)      Join Date: Oct 2008       11-10-2011, 8:44 PM Reply   
That may get my cell phone ringing! Lol

Oh yeah, for the record.......
No matter what brand you choose please be sure to secure your boat with transom straps!
Lol for those who remember that!
Old    Craig Emerton (craigtxmc)      Join Date: Oct 2008       11-10-2011, 8:48 PM Reply   
Let me help you Nick....

When pulling a towable, using the ski pylon will work best. The pylon is very strong and it also keeps the tow rope from skimming the water and shooting water into your kids' eyes.
That is, unless it's your buddies on the tube. Let's hope not. Cuz this could get ugly! Lol
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       11-10-2011, 9:09 PM Reply   
tow from the tower, always.

and swat those prices seem awfully high... we just picked up an RZR, feel free to hit me up if you have questions i know there are only a few owners on here.

Last edited by simplej; 11-10-2011 at 9:13 PM.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       11-10-2011, 9:28 PM Reply   
I've heard that the stock tube wake on the X25 is the best on the water. I'm sure it's better than the MBs. On my lake most every mastercraft is pulling a tube, so they must be really good for that.
Old    Nick911            11-10-2011, 9:43 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigtxmc View Post
Let me help you Nick....

When pulling a towable, using the ski pylon will work best. The pylon is very strong and it also keeps the tow rope from skimming the water and shooting water into your kids' eyes.
That is, unless it's your buddies on the tube. Let's hope not. Cuz this could get ugly! Lol
Kids are still babies so it's gonna be buddies. Only water in their eyes will be tears of fear!
Old    GD (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       11-10-2011, 10:31 PM Reply   
Nick911, you deserve credit for coming back and owning up to your posts.
Old    GD (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       11-10-2011, 10:38 PM Reply   
It really is all about having a good time with friends but for me the wake really matters. I loved my 2000 BU VLX but really hated dealing with pumps, hoses, bags and mold to build a wake that was more rampy than I liked. So, when I searched for my new boat (looking at BU/CC/MB), it was all about getting another nice quality v-drive (like my VLX) with better wake production (purevert rules) and better wake shape (not too rampy). For me, it was not about label/ego/image. Instead, it was all about quality/function/comfort/style.
Old    Detox (bass10after)      Join Date: Feb 2010       11-10-2011, 10:57 PM Reply   
let the monkey poo tossing begin..
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       11-11-2011, 4:08 AM Reply   
What kind of tricks are you planning to learn on the tube? Maybe we can help..
Old    Travis Fleming (brazosfreak05)      Join Date: May 2009       11-11-2011, 5:12 AM Reply   
Sooooooo...which is it, rear step on MC about 8 inches above platform or ski pole for towing tube?



Is this a joke?
Old    Nick911            11-11-2011, 5:16 AM Reply   
If I fill the tube with nitrogen is it less likely to catch fire from friction from the bottom of the tube rubbing on the water?
Old    Ian Brown (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       11-11-2011, 6:20 AM Reply   
Hijack.... Some sneak peeks of the new f24 on the mb owners site
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       11-11-2011, 6:29 AM Reply   
Quote:
If you ask me the biggest tub of crap on the water today is Axis.
Wow, big surprise, an MB fan/owner hating on Axis and saying his MB is better than an XStar.

MB makes a nice boat. Many boats produce awesome wakes. You can spend a lot more for a lot more bling. It's pretty simple really. Comparing wakes is one thing. Comparing an entire boat, bling, creature comforts, resale, etc. is something totally different. Is the MB wake comparable to an XStar wake? Seems like the consensus is that XStar and MB boats produce two different types of wakes that will appeal to different types of riders. Both are very good.

To suggest that a loaded XStar is comparable to an MB in the options and frills department is rediculous. Both are nice boats, but MC's cost more, in part, because of all the screens, billit everthing, gadgets, etc. People are going to disagree as to whether it's justifiable to pay more for more creature comforts and bling, but, apparently, enough people are buying MC's to justify it.

Last edited by chattwake; 11-11-2011 at 6:37 AM.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       11-11-2011, 6:49 AM Reply   
One other thing, MB has always been viewed as a budget friendlish, bang for the buck, boat. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Hell, I sold my 230 and bought an A22 (which is a great bang for the buck boat) because I simply couldn't justify the difference in price. If I had connections with a dealer who sold MB, I would have strongly considered an MB when I sold my last 230. The MB brand has come a long way from old crazy gel schemes and flame vinyl layouts.

MC is on the complete opposite side of the spectrum from mb, supra, moomba, axis. MC piles as much stuff in their boats as possible to justify an insanely high price tag. MC is all about prestige and exclusivity. People who honestly believe that the unbiased consumer in the wakeboat marketplace views MB and MC as comparable are drinking the koolaid. People don't buy an Axis, Moomba, Supra or MB because they want the most expensive, shockingly blinged out, optioned up boat available. People buy those boats because they provide great value.
Old    Brandon Zubke (bzubke1)      Join Date: Feb 2010       11-11-2011, 7:30 AM Reply   
Rathy behind his mb 21 tomcat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDJMqFXA_80
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       11-11-2011, 7:46 AM Reply   
I sold that Tomcat last month and just sent the link to the new owner. I have a killer deal on my 2012 demo ( 2012 MB brochure Tomcat actual boat) if anyone wants to pull a winter deal trigger.
Old    Dennis Costa (dejoeco)      Join Date: Apr 2003       11-11-2011, 7:55 AM Reply   
Which boat can make me have the most fun, have no crashes, look younger, feel younger, always play the right tune and come with a keg-orator. That would make me "the most interesting man in the world." I guess that means there is Dos Equis in the keg-orator. (I can live with that.)

NOW ... that would would be a boat everyone would want!
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       11-11-2011, 8:04 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bzubke1 View Post
Rathy behind his mb 21 tomcat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDJMqFXA_80
damn.

that osmosis at 1:17 is nasty
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       11-11-2011, 11:10 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattwake View Post
Wow, big surprise, an MB fan/owner hating on Axis and saying his MB is better than an XStar.

MB makes a nice boat. Many boats produce awesome wakes. You can spend a lot more for a lot more bling. It's pretty simple really. Comparing wakes is one thing. Comparing an entire boat, bling, creature comforts, resale, etc. is something totally different. Is the MB wake comparable to an XStar wake? Seems like the consensus is that XStar and MB boats produce two different types of wakes that will appeal to different types of riders. Both are very good.

To suggest that a loaded XStar is comparable to an MB in the options and frills department is rediculous. Both are nice boats, but MC's cost more, in part, because of all the screens, billit everthing, gadgets, etc. People are going to disagree as to whether it's justifiable to pay more for more creature comforts and bling, but, apparently, enough people are buying MC's to justify it.

Not sure if I am misreading your post or you misread mine. Please re read and then get back to me and please tak a look at my profile...I own an MC. No one ever said MB options were identical to MC's. In fact everyone including myself agreed that MC offers a ton more bling and part of the reason its edges out MB and costs more. We were discussing the overall build process/quality between the 2 not the final blinged out loaded editions. MC will always win in the bling factor. I still stand my statement that MB pays more attention to the details in the build process and those involved in the company as a whole have a much more hands on process for each boat. Each MB is also inspected a little colser before it leaves the factory than an MC.. They can do this simply because they are a much smaller company and build a lot less boats. This is first hand factory tour knowledge.

I know you are a huge proponet of the Axis movement, in the realm of current wakeboats, I wasn't hating on Axis. I apologize for my word choice, just wanted to get my point across quickly. Axis is the bare minimum wakeboat on the market and has cut huge corners to keep its costs down. I ride behind an Axis at least once a week and no its not single boat that may be a lemon or early production model, its a promo boat, the boat changes regularly as Axis boats are selling like hotcakes here, and they can't keep them in stock. Which is awesome. It gets people into a new ride and enjoying the water. However they cut every corner and cheaped on on everything they could in their builds and quality in order to keep the price down. Their wake is money and the fact that people can actually get in a new boat with a warranty cheaper than a used model are both huge pluses and the reason they are doing well, but in the realm of things it is the lowest end boat on the market today and I would put it in its own class. Will I ever knock anyone for owning one.........................HELL NO. They appealed to me as well for the reasons I mentioned. Had they been on the lot of my dealer I probably would have had one in my driveway after taking a couple rides in it, but after spending time in one, disecting it apart, and having it on a big lake the cut corners are very noticeable and it's not the boat for me. Anyone in a boat having fun is ok with me, but to argue it's not the lowest quality wakeboat on the market today is being blinded by ownership goggles. It's def a step below the avg quality wakeboat.

I am not here to classify every boat and start huge arguments. Every boat has its own customer. Every boat has its advantage over another boat. Every wake has its own unique shape and there will never be the single "best" out there. I am just tired of the chest beating by owners and misinformation thrown out here on a daily basis when people who are actually looking for solid advice are asking up. While I know people love their boats almost as much as their first born, myself included, this should be a place where people get facts not just "Brand A the best the rest suck."

Last edited by xstarrider; 11-11-2011 at 11:13 AM.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       11-11-2011, 11:28 AM Reply   
apples to apples
Old    Craig Emerton (craigtxmc)      Join Date: Oct 2008       11-11-2011, 11:38 AM Reply   
" i don't always pull tubes...... But when i do...."
Attached Images
 
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       11-11-2011, 11:59 AM Reply   
give em hell Craig ! Figured this thread would interest the most interesting man in the world
Old    Tim C (lifetimewarranty)      Join Date: Oct 2008       11-11-2011, 12:07 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
I still stand my statement that MB pays more attention to the details in the build process and those involved in the company as a whole have a much more hands on process for each boat. Each MB is also inspected a little colser before it leaves the factory than an MC.. They can do this simply because they are a much smaller company and build a lot less boats. This is first hand factory tour knowledge.
I'm not sure I want to put my name on this mess, but I am interested how you know they pay more attention to the details. It could be that MC has it down to a much better science and doesn't need to sweat every step as they have built in processes that are followed more closely. Having (probably) built multiple times the amount of boats that MB has, and having been at the top most of their life, MC as a company, most likely, runs like a well oiled machine, vs the Sangers, MB's etc, who build incredible boats, but probably have to inspect more often due to less infrastructure during the process.

It would be like me doing a home re-model myself. I could do it and do it well...but I would be checking and re-checking everything. The professional can get by doing it without looking like he has to measure every other second.

I could be way off base, but I think your tours don't exactly tell the entire story.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       11-11-2011, 12:30 PM Reply   
I'm sorry my post confused you. Obviously, you are entitled to your opinion. However, having owned an mc, a bu, 3 230s and an a22, and having friends with moombas, supras, and/or sell those brands, and having watched various brands being built, I disagree with about 90% of what you said about build quality and materials. You do realize that axis uses the same gel and fiberglass as all other malibus. They are built on the same line, use the same mold process, use inmar engines, etc. you can get a full wet sounds system in an axis. The vinyl is on par with supra, moomba and centurion. No it's not as fancy as what mc or bu uses, but it's not the lowest quality possible. The tower is rock solid, the ballast system is the same as what bu uses, the analog gauges are similar to what everyone else uses. Your characterization of axis as a bottom of the barrel garbage boat is simply inaccurate. But, whatever. Feel free to continue to bash. It's par for the course for some ww members.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       11-11-2011, 1:14 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattwake View Post
I'm sorry my post confused you. Obviously, you are entitled to your opinion. However, having owned an mc, a bu, 3 230s and an a22, and having friends with moombas, supras, and/or sell those brands, and having watched various brands being built, I disagree with about 90% of what you said about build quality and materials. You do realize that axis uses the same gel and fiberglass as all other malibus. They are built on the same line, use the same mold process, use inmar engines, etc. you can get a full wet sounds system in an axis. The vinyl is on par with supra, moomba and centurion. No it's not as fancy as what mc or bu uses, but it's not the lowest quality possible. The tower is rock solid, the ballast system is the same as what bu uses, the analog gauges are similar to what everyone else uses. Your characterization of axis as a bottom of the barrel garbage boat is simply inaccurate. But, whatever. Feel free to continue to bash. It's par for the course for some ww members.
seem pretty butthurt, imo
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       11-11-2011, 1:47 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattwake View Post
IThe vinyl is on par with supra, moomba and centurion.
I am not knocking the Axis, seems like a nice price point boat to me. But to say the vinyl is on par with a 2012 Centurion is just not true. The interior of an Axis and an Enzo are night and day different.

Reality, the top 7 or 8 manufacturers (Centurion, Bu/Axis, Nauti, MC, MB, Supra/Moomba, Tige, Sanger, etc) all make great boats. They just all have different features/prices that appeal to different people. So anybody that gets on hear and puts down another brand is just nuts.
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       11-11-2011, 6:08 PM Reply   
Chatt,

While I will agree with the gel and the mold process its the steps that you can't see and that are huge reasons for the cost difference and reduction in quality. Just cuz it rolls off the same assembly line doesn't make it get it the same amount of attention to detail. If it did it would have the Bu name not the Axis name. The tower is nice and stable however has a wicked blindspot for my wife when she's behind the wheel . Saying its quality because you can get a full Wetsounds system in it is absolutely rediculous. I can put a Wetsonds system in a freakin Bayliner and we can all agree that's as basic as it comes. It just means Wetsounds has chose to align themselves and offer their product directly through the Mfg of that boat. Most boats uses the same hull and top deck mold styles. Chopperguns and hand laid glass.


Let me preface the following statements/opinions with the fact that this is not bash or putting down a particular boat. It is merely stating some of the difference that account for the pricepoint product to stay pricepoint.
The Axis while sleek and well laid out cuts corners plain and simple. . Its the only way to keep the costs low. The vinyl is def not the same quality as any of those boats you metioned. It is a completely different grade/finish and also uses a cheaper foam base to it. While it's def not the lowest grade vinyl available, its the lowest grade in any current commonly known v drive wakeboat mfg. The flip up "Chillax" seats are attached with flimsy brackets that Bu doesn't even use in any of their boats. They wobble like crazy from both sides and are prone to bending. The way the edge of the "Chillax" seats are attached to the fiberglass also fails to use reinforced backing strips. The area underneath that "Chillax" flip up seat is missing huge amounts of fiberglass to reinforce one of the most critical flex areas. There is no rigidity. The seat base takes all the pressure when people walk through and flex like crazy in a very crucial walk through spot that is bound to have tons of traffic. We have been through a total of 3 bases and about 5 hinges. Again the boats see a little more than avergae use being demo boats and have had a lot of first timers on them, but they are still areas of concern at how flimsy they are. When the seats are flipped up you can not step across to the bow because it is open air all the way to the floor of the hull water line if the center bag is empty. If the bag is full you end up stepping on that. Had that had a glassed in base/floor it would significantly increase its rigidity and give it a more finished look. The dashboard has tons of plastic everywhere and almost next to no fiberglass support It rattles like crazy through the d ups and rough water. . The observers access is just supported by a swing hinge with no gas shock. Being a piece that will be used a ton it will suffer stress and not hold up well. Ours has bent twice on 2 22's The glovebox is a flimsy piece of plastic held up by a cheap spring not a gas shock and also wobbles/rattles. There are 2 main voids in the glovebox as well along the walk thru wall where things will dissappear if you are not careful. The supports for the windshield are missing backing strips and plates to reinforce their position and keep them solid. Where most other companies choose to use gas shocks to reinforce and support critical areas Axis saves costs on those, Axis excludes them, and chooses to use less supportive, standard swing hinges. Axis is also a very very loud boat due to the lack of sound dampning and extra fiberglass materials it cuts out to save on cost. Again while most of this stuff doesn't affect the overall wakeboard peformance of the boat producing great wakes, with a great powerplant, at a great price, it does cause the boat to suffer the effects of the cost cutting measures. Trying to pretend these don't exist on the level they do is pure ignorance

Last edited by xstarrider; 11-11-2011 at 6:13 PM.
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       11-11-2011, 6:33 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifetimewarranty View Post
I'm not sure I want to put my name on this mess, but I am interested how you know they pay more attention to the details. It could be that MC has it down to a much better science and doesn't need to sweat every step as they have built in processes that are followed more closely. Having (probably) built multiple times the amount of boats that MB has, and having been at the top most of their life, MC as a company, most likely, runs like a well oiled machine, vs the Sangers, MB's etc, who build incredible boats, but probably have to inspect more often due to less infrastructure during the process.

It would be like me doing a home re-model myself. I could do it and do it well...but I would be checking and re-checking everything. The professional can get by doing it without looking like he has to measure every other second.

I could be way off base, but I think your tours don't exactly tell the entire story.
Lifetime.........Don't be a scuuurrrd........join the thread hijack and the debochery.

I can see that point for sure. Never thought of it like that. I guess the impression of owners and higher ups coming down to inspect products first hand left a much better mark on me than boats just flying out the door after being water tested by the avg build guy. The MB's that my dealership received were always on point. Very few parts were ever missing in the 3 yr run where our Mc's where missing things here and there more frequently. The higher ups at the MB factory seemed to be much more involved and sweat every little thing compared to the other factories I have toured. Obviously being a Centurion rep for 7.5 yrs got me in a lot of places due to the bonds and friendships formed. I guess I tend to lean to more of the side that if things are flying out the doors faster and much more frequently there tends to be less attention to the smaller things.

Last edited by xstarrider; 11-11-2011 at 6:37 PM.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       11-11-2011, 6:35 PM Reply   
It would have been sufficient to say the thread is comparing MB and Mastercraft.The constant comparing of every other boat doesn't encourage anyone to help the OP.If every comparison thread turns into a bashing or critiquing session no one will post these type of questions anymore.I know what i say doesn't make a difference,but we all should try to get along.Props to Nick911 for admitting his lack of in depth knowledge about the MB wakes.Happy Boating Eveyone!
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       11-11-2011, 6:46 PM Reply   
I am the biggest culprit.....Sorry rob....Lots of time, lot sof pain, and lots of drugs. I just need people to talk to
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       11-11-2011, 6:59 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
I am the biggest culprit.....Sorry rob....Lots of time, lot sof pain, and lots of drugs. I just need people to talk to
Don't worry,i had to go through Cowbell ringing therapy!We all live and learn when and when not to be passionate about what we write.
Old    Mike (slowwwflowww)      Join Date: Mar 2011       11-12-2011, 4:54 AM Reply   
Speaking of bayliner here's something to think about.Couple summers ago while at lake we had just finished a session when a friend of the fanily came by with his 2004 bayliner.Had a bunch of sacks in it.I'll be damned if it didn't throw a decent sized very verty wake.The last thing we were thinking about was the lack of bling or build,we were focused on pulling tricks we normally do behind my inboard.My point being i think we tend to lose focus on why we are out there to begin with,FOR THE FUN OF IT!Some people for personal reasons "need" to have the blingiest boat out there,while some don,t care about prestige and are focused on the real reason we are out there.
Old    Alex Yermolenko (alexair)      Join Date: Oct 2008       11-12-2011, 7:47 AM Reply   
^^ +1
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       11-12-2011, 10:09 AM Reply   
For some the prestige and the bling ARE the fun. Nothing wrong with that I suppose.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       11-12-2011, 12:55 PM Reply   
Funny thing, swatguy, a lot the negative things u posted about the axis is the VERY reasons i love and bought one. The plastic, the cheap glove box and spring door holder, chilax seat open bases, etc.... you pay for the nice hand wrapped vinyl dash and glove boxes and gas struts....i did not.
The A22 is objectively made with cheaper materials on the interior. However, the A22 objectively handles better than any 22 foot vdrive wakeboat, loaded or empty...in fact, i have driven most 21 footers and would put the A22 above most (f21, san 210, old and new, cent enzo old and new...)

Also, the a22 windshield is exact same as malibu vtx, vlx, vrides and lsv's... the bus have 2 more glass pieces on the sides, and also cover up the support bars in walkway with padded vinyl. Same mounting brackets, hardware, hinges, latches, and process.

Finally, the complaint with chilax seating and bending brackets... never heard of this, seems the fiberglass would break before the supports would bend. The new xstars chillax seats have it the way you would prefer. There is fiberglass bench that the seats fold onto. When the seat backs are up, you can step on the bench to get to the bow, in the axis there is the storage. I love this set up, unlike the xstars. Its a wasted space in the xstar, but in my axis i have the ballast sack plus i can put a bag, or backpack, or lead, or small cooler in there. When the sack is empty, it is a big storage area. When stepping to front or back, its easy to fold the seat backs down, or step in fiberglass edges, or into the open area to rear of sack... but moot point when riding for me, we never use the bow anyways.

Okay, done. Back to the op. I stand by my first post. Drive and ride, then buy what u want, and if u live in so cal then my vote is for the new xstar so that i can ride it
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       11-12-2011, 1:07 PM Reply   
Also, as u state that "gas shocks reinforce and support..." and that axis doesnt use them, instead uses standard hinges unlike other boats... is incorrect. Every boat co uses standard hinges for doors and seats. Gas struts only suppors the WEIGHT of the door when opening and closing. So axis does not have a strut on glove box, observers door, or chillax seats. Great, thats 4 less struts that will need replacement.
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       11-12-2011, 2:12 PM Reply   
Johnny,

I wasn't slamming Axis for doing this at all. I am def not a hater............Just merely pointing out where the cost saving measures are apparrent. I know I missed a few as well. I personally think they hit a homerun in the boat they were trying to create 10 fold. I have put 2 of my buds I ended up getting hooked on wakeboarding in a 20 and 22. I like a ton of features about the boat myself. You get a ton of boat and performance from them at a decent pricepoint. It's awesome to see that in an industry where most boat prices are increasing at outrageous rates.......double the cost of living and in some cases triple each year. I never said Axis was only one using standard hinges. Stated they didn't use gas shocks to support and reinforce them......they merely rely on the standard hinge to take the load.d

Last edited by xstarrider; 11-12-2011 at 2:17 PM.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       11-12-2011, 4:44 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
You get a ton of boat and performance from them at a decent pricepoint. It's awesome to see that in an industry where most boat prices are increasing at outrageous rates.......double the cost of living and in some cases triple each year.
You sure about that...?

Axis price increases are as bad or worse than the Big 3. When they came out in 2009 an A22 was $40K with trailer. Now they are $60K (give or take). Isn't that something like a 50% price increase?? You can't even get used A22's for $40K anymore. They launched with a lot of fanfair 2.5 years ago about being a rider oriented, value based boat. And they are cool boats, but they have not remained true to the "value" part of their stated mission, IMHO. I'm not sure if that's the dealers who are jacking up the prices or Axis who is raising the invoice price. Either way, it makes no sense to me given the skimpy interiors.

On the other hand, I paid about the same for my brand new 2012 F21 as I did for my brand new 2009 TWB three years ago. And MB has never marketed themselves as price point boats. They just keep their heads down and continue to churn out the most value in the industry (value being defined as the best quality -to- price ratio). It's what I love about that company.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       11-12-2011, 6:52 PM Reply   
In 2009 they were $39,999, i think without trailer, but i dont recall right now. Now in 2012 you can still get that same boat as advertised for under $50k, and there have been some significant improvements. The $60k price tag is loaded, big motor, tricked out trailer, LEDs everywhere, heater, shower, fukl system with tower speakers, vandall package, pnp, chillax seats, propped, bimini, cover, depth finder, etc.... i see most A22s fully loaded or wekl optioned. To me it goes against what axis is all about, a wake machine. But, money talks and when a customer comes in and wants his core boat to have a bunch of cool options, he gets it. To each his own,but you can still get an A22 for under $50 with trailer, pnp, propped....done.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       11-12-2011, 6:55 PM Reply   
and you are correct about the used axis market. hard pressed to find a 2009 for under $40k. that says a lot about the boat that its selling 3 years used for the same price when new.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       11-12-2011, 7:46 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_defacto View Post
and you are correct about the used axis market. hard pressed to find a 2009 for under $40k. that says a lot about the boat that its selling 3 years used for the same price when new.
It says something... to me it says Axis has raised new prices so much that it has lifted the used Axis market. Even an increase from $40K to $50K for a stripped model is a 25% increase. So that's good for the folks who bought in 2009. Not so good for the folks who want to buy now.

I don't know... I could be wrong. I don't follow Axis pricing closely. I'm just piecing together the stuff I hear on this forum.
Old    L W (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       11-12-2011, 9:22 PM Reply   
"The flip up "Chillax" seats are attached with flimsy brackets that Bu doesn't even use in any of their boats. They wobble like crazy from both sides and are prone to bending. The way the edge of the "Chillax" seats are attached to the fiberglass also fails to use reinforced backing strips. The area underneath that "Chillax" flip up seat is missing huge amounts of fiberglass to reinforce one of the most critical flex areas. There is no rigidity. The seat base takes all the pressure when people walk through and flex like crazy in a very crucial walk through spot that is bound to have tons of traffic. We have been through a total of 3 bases and about 5 hinges. Again the boats see a little more than avergae use being demo boats and have had a lot of first timers on them, but they are still areas of concern at how flimsy they are. When the seats are flipped up you can not step across to the bow because it is open air all the way to the floor of the hull water line if the center bag is empty. If the bag is full you end up stepping on that. Had that had a glassed in base/floor it would significantly increase its rigidity and give it a more finished look."

On the A22, this is one thigns that shocked me. It seems like such a bad/poor/plain old cheap design. Why leave the space open below the seats?
I have a Moomba XLV and have been considering an A22 for a while and I recently went and looked at one and was dissappointed. This same section is much better designed on my xlv. Also there was NO storage under all tthe fron seats, on my XLV this is all open storage.

I took my wife recentley to see one at the dealer in hopes she would want to upgrade. Her exact comments after we left were "They seemed to cheap to me, it seems like a downgrade. The interior is like that from of a Honda civic. wait more like a corolla". I don't mean to bash them in anyway, I am still considering buying one and I know the wake is top notch.

But they are cheaper, interior wise at least.
Old    R{west Side Ryder} W (rmotoxxx711)      Join Date: Oct 2008       11-12-2011, 10:17 PM Reply   
Hate2party wanna see a dope mb b52 wake come check outy
Buddys 2011. I run the 1800 full plus 400 up front 500 in the rear and 6 people. 80' @ 24.5mph or my San210 with 3000lbs. At 82' and 24.5mph
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       11-13-2011, 5:58 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_defacto View Post
and you are correct about the used axis market. hard pressed to find a 2009 for under $40k. that says a lot about the boat that its selling 3 years used for the same price when new.
we have a 2010 A22 loaded, bling trailer, mint one owner around 40k
Old    E (22vdrive)      Join Date: Apr 2010       11-13-2011, 6:50 AM Reply   
Funny story. I bought an mb f-21 tomcat that was owned by Mike Murphy. I was originally going to drive from Houston, Tx to Lake Elisnore, Ca to purchase it. Well my credit union would only allow me to purchase through an in state dealer. I told Mike of my situation and je told me he would try to work something out. It turns out he is really good friends with the owner of Texas Mastercraft which in turn decided to sell Mike's boat for him through the dealership as a favor. Long story short Mike towed the boat to the dealership and I believe it was the first mb boat they had seen in person. All the personal were wowed by the quality that Mb was putting out and they could not believe the price I was paying. I wonder if Tx Mc decided to start selling Mb's due to my purchasing one through them. Mike thanks for the great boat I've enjoyed every bit of her. Tx Mc thanks for helping with the transaction.
Old    E (22vdrive)      Join Date: Apr 2010       11-13-2011, 7:15 AM Reply   
Brazosfreak if you ever want to come down to the trinity river I'll let you ride behind my f21 tomcat. We can slam it out as well to 3500#'s.
Old    Travis Fleming (brazosfreak05)      Join Date: May 2009       11-13-2011, 2:16 PM Reply   
22vdrive
i recently moved to lake jackson, tx south of houston 45 min. So anytime your wanting to ride i am willing to come.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       11-13-2011, 2:34 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 22vdrive View Post
Funny story. I bought an mb f-21 tomcat that was owned by Mike Murphy. I was originally going to drive from Houston, Tx to Lake Elisnore, Ca to purchase it. Well my credit union would only allow me to purchase through an in state dealer. I told Mike of my situation and je told me he would try to work something out. It turns out he is really good friends with the owner of Texas Mastercraft which in turn decided to sell Mike's boat for him through the dealership as a favor. Long story short Mike towed the boat to the dealership and I believe it was the first mb boat they had seen in person. All the personal were wowed by the quality that Mb was putting out and they could not believe the price I was paying. I wonder if Tx Mc decided to start selling Mb's due to my purchasing one through them. Mike thanks for the great boat I've enjoyed every bit of her. Tx Mc thanks for helping with the transaction.
Similar story... my 2012 F21 was the first to come out of the factory in June. But my dealer in Portland didn't have a delivery truck scheduled from MB for another month. So I was going to have to wait. No matter... Mike solved the problem by offering to drive it up to Oregon for me. Imagine my surprise when Mike himself showed up towing my new boat behind his personal truck. I still can't believe he took that time to personally deliver my boat so I wouldn't have to wait.
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       11-13-2011, 2:54 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_mn View Post
damn.

That osmosis at 1:17 is nasty
so sick
Old    E (22vdrive)      Join Date: Apr 2010       11-13-2011, 3:53 PM Reply   
Brazos I'll be our of the country till January but if you like winter riding I'm sure I'll have plenty of space. Mb makes a great boat by the way and the wake is always clean.
Old    D. Cooper (dcooper)      Join Date: Mar 2005       11-14-2011, 9:02 AM Reply   
The local dealer here has a 2012 A22 priced over $65k. It seems loaded but, that's not a price point boat in my world.
Old    Hate2party (slipknot)      Join Date: Aug 2001       11-14-2011, 10:01 AM Reply   
65 k for an Axis is a complete joke no opinion here just fact!
Old    Tim C (lifetimewarranty)      Join Date: Oct 2008       11-14-2011, 12:54 PM Reply   
A new MB F21 for 40K?

Why does 64k without options, trailer, dealer prep, etc show up on their website then?????


???????????????????????????????????????????????




http://www.mbsports.net/model_view.asp?model=f21tomcat
Old    Adam R (wakecumberland)      Join Date: Oct 2007       11-14-2011, 1:03 PM Reply   
Who said anything about a new MB F21 for $40,000?

MSRP.... it is simply that, a SUGGESTION.

You know anyone paying $82,529 for a base model SAN 210 with no options, trailer or dealer prep?
http://www.nautique.com/models/super-air-nautique-210/

You can easily get a loaded up MB F21 for $55,000 including options, trailer and dealer prep.

I've been in both the Axis and MB. No question, I would drop the coin on the MB long before the Axis. The Axis would have to be $10,000 cheaper than the MB for me to even consider it.

Last edited by wakecumberland; 11-14-2011 at 1:10 PM.
Old    Tim C (lifetimewarranty)      Join Date: Oct 2008       11-14-2011, 2:14 PM Reply   
I guess he actually said they were 40k in 2009 (which is when they couldn't give them away based on the market)

And he said under 50 now...which I find pretty hard to believe since the website for a stripped F21 is 64k. Don't get me wrong, I hope people aren't spending over 60 for them.

So you are telling me that a 75k boat (somewhat loaded F21 with trailer etc) is 55k or under? (I'm just asking) - that is crazy. 25% discount!
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       11-14-2011, 2:25 PM Reply   
A couple of leftover 2011's on a dealer's lot for comparison (admittedly, it's probably the color combos that's keeping them there):

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/boa/2679841560.html

http://monterey.craigslist.org/boa/2644037029.html

http://www.salinasvalleymarine.com/n...72&pov=2094536

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