Articles
   
       
       
Pics/Video
   
       
       
Shop
Search
 
 
 
 
 
Home   Articles   Pics/Video   Gear   Wake 101   Events   Community   Forums   Classifieds   Contests   Shop   Search
WAKE WORLD HOME
Email Password
Go Back   WakeWorld > Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles

Share 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old    Eric Scott (phillywakeboarder)      Join Date: Sep 2008       11-08-2011, 2:31 PM Reply   
Hi everbody. After 6 years of manually filling up bags, I've finally decided to install an automated ballast system in my 99 x star. I'm trying to decide whether to get johnson or jabsco pumps. If anyone likes one more than the other, I'd love to hear about it. Specifically, I'm talking about the Johnson Ultra Ballast Reversible Pump and the Jabsco Wakeboard Ballast Puppy Reversible Pump. Thanks so much.
Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       11-08-2011, 3:32 PM Reply   
I like how the Johnson is less expensive AND is rated 80GPH higher. They both use the same impeller.

I plan on doing Johnsons before next season.
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       11-08-2011, 6:00 PM Reply   
my last boat ran 5 Johnson pumps, they ran great. I would just upgrade the impellar.
Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       11-08-2011, 8:51 PM Reply   
Johnson's don't come with a switch, the Jabsco does and is only $20 more.

http://www.wakemakers.com/wakeboard-ballast-pumps
Old    Matt (duramat)      Join Date: Feb 2008       11-09-2011, 7:06 AM Reply   
Johnsons all the way. The days of handpumps...gone! You'll be so glad you went with them
Old    Spencer (spencerwm)      Join Date: Feb 2009       11-09-2011, 12:04 PM Reply   
I have been very pleased with the Johnson Ultra Ballast pumps. They are work horses with a very low warranty rate. I have only had a hand full come back in the three seasons that we have sold them.

Right now I have the Jabsco Ballast Puppy pumps on sale for the end of the season. Those will go back up toward the middle of this month. We were trying to blow out some inventory as we roll into winter.

Realistically you are not going to go wrong either way. I setup a system this season for a Centurion Enzo customer with one Jabsco filling the starboard bag and a Johnson filing the port bag. The bags where both Fat Sacs, 750lbs, and they filled at the same rate for the most part. The Johnson was a little faster but not by much. I was filling at around 90 to 100 lbs. of water a minute. That was using 1" thru-hull intake fittings with about two feet of hose to the pump. The pump then had about three feet of hose to the bottom of the bag.
Old    Curt Bowman (curt489)      Join Date: Feb 2008       11-09-2011, 3:32 PM Reply   
I used 4 of these in my old boat and they worked fine. Little dangerous thought because they are not ignition protected as the Jabsco and Johnson are. I always ran my blower when i started the pumps or engine. These pumps are half the cost, usually around $95 shipped to your door. They move almost the same volume.

Model BW85P
12 Volt Utility Pump
12 volt DC transfer pump good for small water transfer jobs when no AC power is available
Key features

* Sturdy thermoplastic construction
* Easy-to-operate and easy-to-service design
* Included power wires use spring clamps to connect to car-type battery
* Includes Pud-L-Scoop attachment and hoses for picking up from shallow areas

Warranty

90 day limited warranty
SPECIFICATIONS
RESOURCES



BODY CONSTRUCTION: Thermoplastic

HORSEPOWER: roughly equivalent to 1/12 HP

MAXIMUM CAPACITY: 450 GPH (with fully-charged battery)

FLOW at 10' LIFT: 390 GPH (with fully-charged battery)

SUCTION SIZE: Male Garden Hose

DISCHARGE SIZE: Male Garden Hose

VOLTAGE: 12v DC

CORD LENGTH: 6' (with clamps to attach to battery)

MAXIMUM WATER TEMPERATURE: 120 F (49C)
Owner's Manual: BW85P
DOWNLOAD MANUAL
Parts Breakdown: BW85P
DOWNLOAD PARTS BREAKDOWN
Specifications: BW85P
DOWNLOAD SPECS
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       11-09-2011, 3:38 PM Reply   
just a though, if you run bags with no gauges maybe you should run aerator pumps so you can easily tell when the bag is finished emptying and you dont blow impellers. just my .02
Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       11-09-2011, 4:39 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
just a though, if you run bags with no gauges maybe you should run aerator pumps so you can easily tell when the bag is finished emptying and you dont blow impellers. just my .02
"Run-Dry Protection: The integrated Run-Dry Protection circuit monitors the current draw of the pump and automatically shuts it off if conditions indicate water is no longer flowing through the pump. This innovative feature prevents damage to the impeller."

Jabsco has that, not sure if the Johnson does. But the Jabsco kills that argument if it is a factor in your purchase. Cost wise, by the time you buy the multiple aerator pumps and the pile of extra fittings, clamps, additional hose, etc. the aerator setup ends up being way more complicated, more expensive, and problem prone (look at all the posts on the web of priming issues with aerator pumps not being positioned perfectly).

I've yet to see anything actually convincing to me that says aerators are the way to go at all.
Old    Harold Hemming (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       11-09-2011, 6:22 PM Reply   
Both are good pumps but I went with the jabsco because of the run dry protection and the difference in size. The jabsco pumps are not as tall as the Johnson pumps which allows for more mounting options.When you put the two pumps side by side the jabsco pumps appear to be better made
Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       11-09-2011, 6:24 PM Reply   
they're not nitrousbird, the reversible pumps are so much simpler. Also, the less connections you have, the less likely it will develop a leak and less parts to fail.

Spencer, I'm doing an install now that you sold a customer parts to last week. 2 Jabsco's on 1 Enzo sac, with 2 1" intakes, valves, and a 3-way manifold for extra external bags. Also had 2 customers last year with Enzo bags, and 4 jabsco's in each boat. Both of those guys are completely satisfied with the Jabsco's they've picked up. No impeller problems at all.
Old    Dennis Costa (dejoeco)      Join Date: Apr 2003       11-10-2011, 9:33 AM Reply   
I have used both brands on my 2002 Tige. I installed the system and initially used the Jabsco with the reversing feature. The pumps would not reverse after about a year or so of use. I found a deal on the Johnson pumps and I have been very happy with the results. I all fairness, I decided to not use the reversing feature and I have a separate pump, a tsunami, to empty and I have an overflow line so I do not overfill. The system works great.
Old    Spencer (spencerwm)      Join Date: Feb 2009       11-10-2011, 11:07 AM Reply   
Both the Jabsco and Johnson ballast pumps are ignition protected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by curt489 View Post
I used 4 of these in my old boat and they worked fine. Little dangerous thought because they are not ignition protected as the Jabsco and Johnson are. I always ran my blower when i started the pumps or engine. These pumps are half the cost, usually around $95 shipped to your door. They move almost the same volume.
A lot of our customers do use the utility pumps and have no complaints. They are cheap and do the job but side by side they are noticeably slower. The only issue is that the pump over time will burn through impellers because they are not built to be continuously switched from forward to reverse. The other thing is that they have a three month warranty and the other manufacturers are a year. I am not against them. In fact I ride behind an X-2 quite often that is running four of them and has been for two seasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
just a though, if you run bags with no gauges maybe you should run aerator pumps so you can easily tell when the bag is finished emptying and you don't blow impellers. just my .02
The audible and visual indication of when your ballast bags are full and empty can be achieved with both the reversible pump system and the aerator pump system. You can use a tee and two check valves to divert the water so that it drains above the water line on reversible pump systems. I like aerator pump ballast systems if you are needing maximum speed and have the room to install all of the necessary parts. The problem with using a pump to fill and a pump to drain is space. Most of the boats we see have so many other options that the amount of space needed to make the system work correctly is not available. The other issue is that they are harder to plumb because there are way more parts involved and their location is important.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonyb View Post
Spencer, I'm doing an install now that you sold a customer parts to last week. 2 Jabsco's on 1 Enzo sac, with 2 1" intakes, valves, and a 3-way manifold for extra external bags. Also had 2 customers last year with Enzo bags, and 4 jabsco's in each boat. Both of those guys are completely satisfied with the Jabsco's they've picked up. No impeller problems at all.
Truth be told when the new Jabsco Green impellers were introduced our customers stopped having issues with run dry damage. They have far better run dry protection than the yellow and black impellers. I don't think Jabsco wants to come out and say it but it's true. I also find that they work well in the Johnson Ultra ballast pumps.

When ever our Pre 2007 MasterCraft customers switch from the Jabsco to the Johnson pumps I have them change the impeller out to the green. It is a little less restrictive in the head of the pump which in turn cuts down the amount of amps that are drawn. That is the biggest issue with the reversible pumps. You need to have ample wiring and clean power for optimum performance. On a side note the Jabsco Pump Timer Modules don't always play nice with the Johnson pumps so switching them out in MasterCrafts 2007 and newer could result in some funky filling and draining times. Johnson is working on the issue so hopefully there will be a product that is 100% compatible soon.
Old    Dennis Costa (dejoeco)      Join Date: Apr 2003       11-11-2011, 7:02 AM Reply   
I forgot to mention that the tsunami pumps in my boat are located at the sac input near the bottom of the bag providing a prime for the pump to start.

I am glad to hear about the impeller improvement on the Jabsco as mentioned by Spencer. I will consider them again next time.
Old    Spencer (spencerwm)      Join Date: Feb 2009       11-11-2011, 12:50 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dejoeco View Post
I forgot to mention that the tsunami pumps in my boat are located at the sac input near the bottom of the bag providing a prime for the pump to start.

I am glad to hear about the impeller improvement on the Jabsco as mentioned by Spencer. I will consider them again next time.
If you are running the Johnson pump only to fill it will last a really long time. The change in direction is what kills those impellers Using the aerator pump for draining will work really well and should be fast. The only down side is that the drain pump will not completely empty the sac which for most people is not an issue. For customers that want to vacuum their bags they can run the reversible pump in both directions.
Old    Travis (fman)      Join Date: Nov 2008       11-11-2011, 3:03 PM Reply   
I have been using the Johnson pumps all season for our surf ballast, using stock impeller and have had no problems, they seem to fill and drain quickly and were a good price. Have also heard good things about the Jabsco pumps.

I went with Johnson because they were less money, and are a tad bit quicker than the Jabsco's.
Old    Eric Scott (phillywakeboarder)      Join Date: Sep 2008       11-15-2011, 6:41 AM Reply   
I'd like to thank everyone for your responses. I really appreciate it. Spencer, I plan to do the install over the Christmas holiday, and will be calling you later this week to discuss parts. Thanks again everyone!
Old    Spencer (spencerwm)      Join Date: Feb 2009       02-19-2013, 10:50 PM Reply   
Old    Chris Halfmoon (moon)      Join Date: Oct 2008       02-20-2013, 7:42 AM Reply   
Spencer, nice little video comparing the two pumps. One question though, I am planning on replacing my old unusable jabsco pumps with the johnson pumps and wondering if my current fill/empty switch will work with the johnson pumps? Thanks
Old    Spencer (spencerwm)      Join Date: Feb 2009       02-20-2013, 7:55 AM Reply   
Chris,
Not a problem. I have done that swap in a bunch of MB 52's.
Thanks,
Spence
Old    Jon Hunter (hunter660)      Join Date: Aug 2007       02-20-2013, 7:59 AM Reply   
Spencer, you would be my hero if you would take the T1200, Jabsco, and Johnson pumps, hook each one of them up a a 400lb sac, start all the pumps at the same time, with the same voltage and head, and let the camera roll.
Old    Detox (bass10after)      Join Date: Feb 2010       02-20-2013, 8:35 AM Reply   
spencer any word on the ronix ballast system?
Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       02-20-2013, 11:46 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter660 View Post
Spencer, you would be my hero if you would take the T1200, Jabsco, and Johnson pumps, hook each one of them up a a 400lb sac, start all the pumps at the same time, with the same voltage and head, and let the camera roll.
That would be a great comparison. Especially if the head is setup more like a real work scenario and not a bench-test setup.
Old    Spencer (spencerwm)      Join Date: Feb 2009       11-20-2013, 10:40 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrousbird View Post
That would be a great comparison. Especially if the head is setup more like a real work scenario and not a bench-test setup.
We are actually doing just that. We have a full test rig with multiple hose sizes, intakes, and bags. Right now we our focused on determining the best impeller compound. We have been working with both Johnson and Jabsco to find something that has better run dry protection with increased flow. We have some leaders but we need to get the cost down so that it actually makes sense for customers. There will be a couple announcements from reversible pump manufacturers by early next year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bass10after View Post
spencer any word on the ronix ballast system?
The Ronix Eight.3 Telescope bags have arrived but the pumps have not. Because of crazy weather in Asia a couple of wake factories were under water for a period of time. The pumps should be here no later than the first of the year. We are very excited to get our hands on the production Ronix Eight.3 pumps. The samples have been awesome and really blew us away with the sheer speed of both filling and draining.
Old    Michael (sprocketeer)      Join Date: Nov 2012       11-21-2013, 8:08 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by spencerwm View Post
We are actually doing just that. We have a full test rig with multiple hose sizes, intakes, and bags. Right now we our focused on determining the best impeller compound. We have been working with both Johnson and Jabsco to find something that has better run dry protection with increased flow. We have some leaders but we need to get the cost down so that it actually makes sense for customers. There will be a couple announcements from reversible pump manufacturers by early next year.
I was going to upgrade my Supra to reversible pumps this winter. Should I wait for the announcements?
Old    Surf Addict (Desi) (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       11-22-2013, 1:03 AM Reply   
On the Supra I constantly ride on, we have a Jabsco Ballast Puppy running the 250lb under seat sack. Normally when we empty it we are on our way back to the dock and aren't paying too much attention to it since we are underway. We normally remember to turn off the pump when we notice the sound of it running dry and cut if off then. Never had any problems with it, even with it's running dry more often than one would like. It takes about 5 minutes to fill the 250 while at speed to our riding spot, but it's the only bag we can fill while moving since the rest are filled with an over the side pump. This on a Direct Drive BTW.

Reply
Share 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 4:44 PM.

Home   Articles   Pics/Video   Gear   Wake 101   Events   Community   Forums   Classifieds   Contests   Shop   Search
Wake World Home

 

© 2012 eWake, Inc.    
Advertise    |    Contact    |    Terms of Use    |    Privacy Policy    |    Report Abuse    |    Conduct    |    About Us