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Old    Mark Griffin (cheesydog)      Join Date: Mar 2009       03-30-2010, 8:03 PM Reply   
Just something Ive observed over the last 4 months of riding velcro bindings. So in the past Ive caught massive back edges and not come out the (regular lace) bindings where Ive had concussions.

Ive caught probably about 2 edges this year which I think in the past would have done some serious damage, dubsblind back edge is not pretty. Happened again last weekend and I fully ejected from the bindings as the velcro gives more than lace. Now in the past Im pretty sure it would have been at least a minor concussion or end of riding for the day, but this time just dusted myself off and kept riding.

Wondered if anyone else had a similar experience? I think theres something to be said for being able to come out of the bindings in a big crash.
Old    gangstar (joe_crawley)      Join Date: Jan 2007       03-30-2010, 9:18 PM Reply   
I prefer to eject, but one foot out one foot in is pretty much a worst case scenario, so you have to pick your poison- eject and avoid a concussion or stay in and avoid a torn acl
Old     (Bakes)      Join Date: Mar 2010       03-30-2010, 9:54 PM Reply   
They should develop a double boot binding plate that mounts to the board. It should be mounted so that it can popoff the board leaving the board in the water and your feet still in the boots. That would save a lot of acl's and hard head plants.
Old    Ryan (ryanw209)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-30-2010, 10:22 PM Reply   
I've started riding with my uppers loose this year. Came out a few times and prevented some injury, however I have never had just one foot come out yet.
Old    David Williams (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       03-31-2010, 1:09 AM Reply   
I'm with gangster. Since coming out at all increases the risk of coming out one foot at a time, I'd rather be strapped in tight. That being said, I love the Velcro idea and Vantages or AA's will probably be my next bindings. Good thing I hardly ever fall!
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       03-31-2010, 2:51 AM Reply   
I'd rather stay in a take the concussion than have one in and one out and do a knee or take the board on the mellon or nads.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       03-31-2010, 6:07 AM Reply   
stay in for me.
Old    Rob Flaherty (mc_x15)      Join Date: Jul 2008       03-31-2010, 6:24 AM Reply   
+1 for concussion, nothign is worse than knee injuries. But i find with my Zues's that when one comes out the both come out. But the generally dont come out
Old    BJ Cail (bcail)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-31-2010, 6:42 AM Reply   
Slalom skis now have bindings that will release from the ski. Snow skis also have bindings that release. Seems that the Wake world is a little behind in technology.

But if the releasable bindeing were available, it is still a personal choice.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       03-31-2010, 6:49 AM Reply   
Do the ski boots have 1 plate that releases both? that would be fine and then have the BOTH boots stay on, but wakeboarding that would be a little harder.... if one or the other went goodbye knees.
Old    PAUL (pnichols)      Join Date: Jan 2007       03-31-2010, 6:56 AM Reply   
Stay in for me. I've had it where I had one foot in and the other out, and it's been bad almost everytime.
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       03-31-2010, 7:09 AM Reply   
Nick, yes it is one plate that comes off, and the feet still stay together. It is actually an outcome of the newer binding technology using liners that go into supportive and super stiff shells, and these breaking ankles like no other. Therefore the bindings need to release before the ankle bone does. Out of competitive skiers, less than 40% are using this type of binding, so being "behind in technology" isn't really applicable because most skiers don't use them, or have and have gone back to the normal bindings. A lot will change back after their new technology releasing bindings release un-wanted at a major competition, dropping them out early. Also, ask any top snow skier, they crank the bindings so hard so that they won't release, and snowboards don't release, board =board. Releasable bindings would not be beneficial in my opinion.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       03-31-2010, 7:19 AM Reply   
I think releasable bindings are stupid too.... its too hard to get the right release point, trying really hard and falling is a fine line
Old    Steve L (okcwakebrdr)      Join Date: Dec 2004       03-31-2010, 7:28 AM Reply   
I did a heel front one time and i guess my bindings were to loose on my right foot. It came out right as i left the wake and got behind the board on the way around, the board pilled the skin off my right shin for about 3 inches like a razor blade, kinda messy. Gotta real nice scar outa the deal tho!
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       03-31-2010, 7:56 AM Reply   
Eject for me!
Old    Ben Wilcox (benjaminp)      Join Date: Nov 2008       03-31-2010, 8:10 AM Reply   
I would rather stay in (and I do). I figure if you are hitting the water hard enough that ejecting is a possibility its gonna suck either way, so I might as well save my knees and double the headache I'm gonna get the next day. Tylenol (and not-beer) is your friend.
Old    Andy Nintzel (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       03-31-2010, 8:10 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_crawley View Post
I prefer to eject, but one foot out one foot in is pretty much a worst case scenario, so you have to pick your poison- eject and avoid a concussion or stay in and avoid a torn acl
I would rather get slammed and stay in my boots than run any risk of having just one foot come out. I snapped both my tib and fib on a Hoochie in 2002 because my front foot came out and not my back foot. The board becomes a HUGE lever arm of destruction with one foot in, I have seen this destroy knees, ankle, and one femur.
Old    Andy Nintzel (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       03-31-2010, 8:28 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcail View Post
Slalom skis now have bindings that will release from the ski. Snow skis also have bindings that release. Seems that the Wake world is a little behind in technology.

But if the releasable bindeing were available, it is still a personal choice.

Snowboard boots dont release and there are significantly less ACL injuries snowboarding than skiing, more broken ankle but less ACL, that is straight from Skiing Magazine. As I recall it said it was something like 4 to 1. Anyway there is now way in hell I would ride a wakeboard that the bindings physically came off. Same year I broke my leg, I tore a boot totally off the board that thing was a dagger, sliced my head right good, 27 stickes later and 10 days off the water I was back.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       03-31-2010, 8:31 AM Reply   
I saw people riding slingshots on the snow with snowboard bindings and boots (because of the 4-hole pattern)....

I've kinda wanted to try it out on the water.... burton freestyle boots weight next to nothing and some carbon-fiber bindings my add less weight to my setup than wakeboard boots
Old    Justin Harrelson (skiboarder)      Join Date: Oct 2006       03-31-2010, 8:49 AM Reply   
Is there even an option anymore? I fnially switched to the "snowboard style" boots last year and only released once. I thought I broke both of my ankles.

I always prefered to release. Even if it was one in and one out. I have torn an ACL and an MCL. Both times, both in.
Old    Norbi Vasko (norbiv)      Join Date: May 2009       03-31-2010, 11:05 AM Reply   
sometimes its nice to eject if both of your feet come out of the boots.
the worst I think is when either one of your foot only comes out half way.
gives that horrible tensing feeling on top of the headache
regardless, its all part of the game
Old    Andy Graham (ottog1979)      Join Date: Apr 2007       03-31-2010, 11:06 AM Reply   
Eject for me. I wear the boots slightly loose. Never busted a leg or torn ligaments, but concussions, which I have done, aren't any fun either.
Old    Andy Graham (ottog1979)      Join Date: Apr 2007       03-31-2010, 11:07 AM Reply   
Dave Williams, How about a poll on this subject?!
Old    Walt (Walt)      Join Date: Jan 2003       03-31-2010, 11:10 AM Reply   
Stay in.
Old    Paul Strahm (jps912)      Join Date: Jun 2007       03-31-2010, 11:46 AM Reply   
stay in all the way.
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       03-31-2010, 12:23 PM Reply   
Over the years we've beaten this to death....

I still think I'd rather release in a hard crash. I've gotten worked in bindings that don't release. Bent bidning base plates, broken inserts out of boards. I'm just not digging that outcome.

Nintzel, I don't think you can compare snow to wake. The edge catches on the snow suck, but you never get that same slapping effect you get on the water. When you edge catch you end up on your a$$ and keep sliding. On the wake you go from 20-whatever to dead stop instantly.
Old    M-Dizzle (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-31-2010, 12:27 PM Reply   
Yes, beaten to death is right. I am with Nintzel in the notion that I would rather take a beating being stuck in than getting ejected with only one foot. I know its a very rare circumstance for only one foot to stay in but the results can be much more disastrous. Ironically I too ride the vantages...and have been both ejected and held in.
Old    Sparky Jay (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       03-31-2010, 5:38 PM Reply   
Another vote for staying in all the way.
Old    Dex Tan (jondextan)      Join Date: Mar 2010       03-31-2010, 6:05 PM Reply   
stay in! i already have knee injuries, and i've experienced one foot out before, don't want to ever feel it again.
Old    Benjamin (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       03-31-2010, 7:39 PM Reply   
I'm suprised the one foot in one foot out compound fracture picture hasn't shown up in this thread yet
Old    Rich (digg311)      Join Date: Sep 2007       03-31-2010, 10:39 PM Reply   
For me... I HATE coming half way out of my Answers. No full eject... just a foot part of the way out, heel caught in the pull loop... feels like my foot is gonna snap in 2 every time. Of course, I haven't wrecked a knee or anything (I guess cause I'm pretty much staying in... even though I'm not).
Old    Chad Helvey (venom93corba)      Join Date: Aug 2005       04-01-2010, 6:57 AM Reply   
Eject for me. I broke my foot 2 years ago doing something stupid where i didnt pop out. Then trying to get out of the binding when ur foot is broken is a nightmare.
Old    Eubanks (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       04-01-2010, 9:16 AM Reply   
In. I don't want the one in one out scenario, but even more so I liked the locked down and responsive feeling of the board when your bindings are cranked as tight as they can go. Just say no to flimsy bindings.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       04-01-2010, 11:53 AM Reply   
I wrecked my Roam last summer, pulled the inserts completely out of the board on one foot. It was the weirdest feeling, I got wrecked, but the first thing to come to my mind is "Why is my left foot moving freely?" I then had the thought that I snapped the board in two pieces. I escaped injury, but one in one out is a bad scenario.

And Chad, I agree. Broke my ankle in my bindings 3 summers ago, and my brother had to pull my board off, while I writhed in pain. They were new Cell's so I didn't even think about cutting the binding to get my foot out.
Old    Sparky Jay (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       04-01-2010, 5:43 PM Reply   
^^^Damn. Now thats a man willing to sacrifice to save the equipment!
Old    M-Dizzle (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       04-01-2010, 5:55 PM Reply   
Dude, invest in a pair of medical shears and cut those bindings off! A couple hundred bucks isn't worth having a lifetime of issues because you forced a broken foot/ankle/etc. out of a stupid binding.
Old    Nic Aldinger (nicvtx1994)      Join Date: Sep 2009       04-04-2010, 4:48 AM Reply   
i disagree with being able to come out of the boots, ive broken my ankle from my foot half coming out of the boot. my heel got caught in the handle on the back of my shanes that you use to help put your foot into
Old    Kyle Linsey (kyle_L)      Join Date: Mar 2010       04-04-2010, 1:22 PM Reply   
I prefer not to eject from my bindings unless both feet get ejected. If it is only 1 foot then it is definitely not a good thing, but the board is just an extra thing that helps with flotation so staying attached to the board is just another means of keeping you afloat when taking a bad fall.
Old    Cameron Nagler (cnagler)      Join Date: Sep 2009       04-04-2010, 2:11 PM Reply   
will wearing socks help you eject? i have lf watsons and they never eject and i hate not coming out
Old    Greg Hind (ghind)      Join Date: Jun 2009       04-05-2010, 1:05 AM Reply   
Having only one foot come out is a bad thing but if you are repeatedly getting concussions, you NEED to do something about it. A wrecked knee is terrible but brain damage is worse. Repeated concussion is going to lead to brain damage - like some boxers for example.

Slalom skiers use a plate which is held on by a carefully calculated amount of 3m dual lock (a type of velcro). They use a mix of different grades of dual lock to get the exact right amount of stick.

You could mount a plate to your board with dual lock and have your bindings bolted to that plate. Then when you crash, your board will seperate from your boots. You'll still have a large plate to drag through the water which will be bad but not nearly as bad as a whole board.

You could also holesaw some holes on the plate between your boots so it doesn't drag so bad when it releases.

I've seen rollerblades converted to be used for slalom boots. It doesn't take a huge amount of dual lock to make them stick, talk to somebody that knows eg www.thewaterskiforum.com

You must fix the crash=concussion issue before you turn yourself into a retard. Seriously.
Old    Kat Laird (wakekat15)      Join Date: Jul 2005       06-28-2011, 11:58 AM Reply   
Did anyone that commented on this thread get a subpoena for Altman vs. HO Sports civil case in US District Court of California?? I would assume it would be to someone that said they would rather get ejected.

Just curious...as I did get a subpoena, but can't find that I ever commented on this particular thread; perhaps I did on some other one in WW.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       06-28-2011, 12:07 PM Reply   
All the times I've ejected it was both feet. On the one pair of binding I had that didn't let me out, I was left nursing a sprained ankle and wakeskating for 3 months.
Old    Joel Treiger (spf2275)      Join Date: Mar 2011       06-28-2011, 12:32 PM Reply   
I lace up tight and I've still done both. Stayed in and slammed the back of my head....not fun! Had my back binding rip out on takeoff so I landed one in one out and jacked my ankle. The ankle was much worse.
Old    Derek (blatantblunts)      Join Date: Jun 2011       06-28-2011, 12:57 PM Reply   
when it comes to catching that front edge, a wakeboard is a better anchor than I will ever have in my boat. For some reason my body doesn't like going from 20mph to a dead stop.

out, out, out...
Old    James Garfield (sdgarfield)      Join Date: May 2011       06-28-2011, 12:59 PM Reply   
one foot out= the reason fo my torn mcl.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       06-28-2011, 2:51 PM Reply   
Let me me the hell out please!!
Old    PapaBProductions            06-29-2011, 12:44 AM Reply   
I love getting ejected cause I know I just got saved a headache, but I've hurt my knees enough to know i should strap it up tight
Old    L H (sports_gurl)      Join Date: Jun 2011       06-29-2011, 7:47 AM Reply   
Though I am not skilled enough to really comment on the topic, I would say never underestimate the destruction caused from a concussion. Might be just a headache that day but in reality it can lead to an umbrella of future problems especially if they are recurring.


Maclean's(a Canadian magazine) recently had an article on long term effects, obviously in relation to hockey concussions, but i am not sure it really matters how you got it, just how you deal with it. Wordy article, i'm sure there are better ones but Check it out, http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/05/19/c...-untold-story/
Old    Duane (OldDog)      Join Date: Oct 2011       10-21-2011, 1:32 PM Reply   
Hi everyone , for my first post I want to bring back a dead Horse if I can. I was in my velcro bindings pretty tight caught an edge and ended up one foot out and I thought I broke it. I have been all over the internet and it looks to be a tie. I guess there is no real answer but the foot that stayed in is great. The bruise on the foot that came out is real nasty. So what to do, I am a little nervous about getting back on it was also my first bad fall and ejection. Thanks glad to find you all looks like a great place Duane
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       10-23-2011, 12:30 PM Reply   
helmet thread all over again....
Old    Chase Tillett (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       10-24-2011, 6:30 AM Reply   
I fell hard once, one foot came out and one stayed in. I went One way and the board went the other. The pop from my knee was so loud I could hear it under water.
Old    Chase Tillett (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       10-24-2011, 6:31 AM Reply   
With that said I'm picking staying in and a concussion over messing up a knee that bad ANY DAY
Old    Jamie (Wiatowski)      Join Date: Aug 2011       10-24-2011, 8:59 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
helmet thread all over again....
True that! I'm not even gonna put my $0.02 in. Wonder if myth busters would do a helmet and ejection topic.
Crap just put my .02 in didn't I?
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       10-24-2011, 9:08 AM Reply   
helmet testing would be more valuable from all the hard edgers youll be taking without to save your knees and routing the force to your FACE
Old    Baitkiller (baitkiller)      Join Date: Jan 2010       10-24-2011, 10:12 AM Reply   
Me? tight.
Kids? loose.
Old    Duane (OldDog)      Join Date: Oct 2011       10-24-2011, 1:12 PM Reply   
Well I got back out yesterday and after that I agree with stay in and duck. Must be nice to design a product that has no real way to be used. Here try our bindings you will love them and thats it.
Old    DJ (Dj2up10)      Join Date: Aug 2010       10-25-2011, 9:51 AM Reply   
It seems as though the main reason this debate goes round and a round, and will likely do so forever, is the fact that there really is no middle ground between fully locked in or loose.

I've definitely tried to err on the side of locked in, which is probably why I've become a bit of a wuss with backside spins. A basic bs 180 rung my bell as hard as any fall I've ever had.

The inevitable problems that can arise are getting concussed, or having injuries related to a foot come partially out of the boot (look up lisfranc related injuries-undoubtably many on this blog don't need to look it up because they've endured them). The times where I've come fully out-I'm grateful (and honestly somewhat amazed both feet came so cleanly out), and more than grateful that both came out instead of just one because of all of the above mentioned possibilities w/ACL's, etc.

Again, here is the issue...there is no middle ground. Bindings that would somehow detach at the miraculously correct time would not work. Imagine the threads that would come out after those released, "I was doing a basic wake jump, and my front boot released, which led to 'x' nasty injury".

The simple unfortunate fact is we love a sport that forces us to know our limits (constantly reevaluate them season to season), our medium (mentioned above, when we fall water makes us go from 20+ to zero instantly), and is very tough on our joints (all). I really feel that our equipment has evolved wonderfully, especially in the binding department, but our sport is what it is.
Old    Eubanks (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       10-25-2011, 10:36 AM Reply   
Staying in is the best way. Plus, I like a really snug fitting, responsive binding so getting them really night usually results in staying in on crashes.
Old    David Williams (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       10-25-2011, 12:18 PM Reply   
As much as I hate giving away million dollar ideas, what if somebody made a breakaway boot system (kind of like snow skiing), but it also has an all-or-nothing feature where if one boot receives enough stress that it releases, both boots release together?
Old    Jamie (Wiatowski)      Join Date: Aug 2011       10-25-2011, 2:15 PM Reply   
I agree with Dj
Old    DJ (Dj2up10)      Join Date: Aug 2010       10-25-2011, 5:23 PM Reply   
Another portion of this discussion worth considering, and probably equally important is width of stance and level of "duck".

I've always ridden with a very wide stance, applying my understanding of an athletic stance from being a life long basketball player etc.

Plus, I ducked my feet out a bit more this past summer with the thought that it would prevent knee injuries as well. To me it just makes sense that if you're going to go over your nose or tail/hit the water spinning you'll have less torque on your knees if your toes are pointed further out...
Old    Da MOOSE (da_moose)      Join Date: Feb 2004       10-25-2011, 9:35 PM Reply   
For all those that want to be locked soooo in you never come out ?????? WHY ,,,you got heel lift ,,your boards tooooo wide ,and the lock-iners ,one time you will come out ,but it will be just one foot and the other foot will be allll twisted up with a messssed up knee.
Velcro Da way to go ,,,make all my bindings with Velcro

Last edited by da_moose; 10-25-2011 at 9:39 PM. Reason: spelled something wrong
Old    Chris Johnson (team_o)      Join Date: Jun 2002       10-26-2011, 6:22 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakeworld View Post
As much as I hate giving away million dollar ideas, what if somebody made a breakaway boot system (kind of like snow skiing), but it also has an all-or-nothing feature where if one boot receives enough stress that it releases, both boots release together?
Not a new idea Dave...

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