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Old     (colorider)      Join Date: Jun 2001       09-10-2011, 12:51 PM Reply   
Im in the market for an economical AR in 223 kit. Any suggestions from the ww gun gurus ?
Looking for a fun reliable and durable build. Has to be budget friendly because It is just a fun addition to my collection.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-10-2011, 8:57 PM Reply   
Andy there is lots of AR guys here check for past threads, I have a Question to Add to your Thread. What about USED gun's. Is there a Market for USED AR's and where would one find one? What would a good used one sell for?
Old     (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       09-12-2011, 5:13 AM Reply   
There is a used market, but its not like used cars. In my limited experience, gun values tend to stay level or appreciate. Also, unlike cars, people tend to stockpile their guns as they get new ones. So, the only "deals" to be had on quality stuff are from people who are in a financial crunch and need to sell quick. The only problem with these guys is the AR they are willing to part with for $500 has a $2000 ACOG sitting on it that all must go.

That being said, if you hit the local gun stores they usually have some consignment stuff. Also check sites like gunbroker or sturmgewehr. Keep in mind many online shops wont waste their time trying to sell to California.

Many stay away from the used market because unless you are a seasoned enthusiast, its hard to guage what you are getting. They dont exactly have an odometer on them, so you really dont know what kind of miles they have on them. I certainly dont know ARs well enough to see subtle wear or notice when a part isnt OEM, etc.
Old     (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       09-12-2011, 10:43 AM Reply   
What he said ^^^^^

G, there are used ones around. They have a couple at Tracy Rifle and Pistol right now. Selling around the $750 mark. Really, you can build one for about the same price.

Andy, go to . All the info you could ever wish for is over there. My first one is a 16" CAR style A3 with removable carry handle. It's turned out to be a great first AR. Versatile. You can run iron sights or a scope if you choose. I built mine from's site. With all the upgrades (welded muzzle brake, chrome bolt/carrier, ergo grip, etc) it ran around $900. You can definitely go cheaper. Probably keep it under $700 if you tried. The second one that I'm building is going to be a Rock River Arms upper. 20" heavy stainless barrel, bi-pod, match trigger and some nice bits... I expect that it'll run around $1400.

You can do better if you're patient and willing to hit some gun shows. I wasn't and want exactly what I want, so I'm willing to pay a bit more for it.

FWIW.... check your local laws. No need to get a felony over something stupid. Be aware. Ignorance wont get you out of jail or your gun out of impound.
Old     (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       09-12-2011, 10:46 AM Reply   
I can't believe I almost forgot..... Make sure your gun is chambered for 5.56/.223 . That way you can run the NATO round or a .223. It's nice to have the flexibility. A .223 chambered gun wont run the 5.56. It wont cost more and the trade off for the looser chamber in terms of muzzle velocity is negligable if any from what I understand. Someone else could probably elaborate a bit more on that.
Old     (Walt)      Join Date: Jan 2003       09-12-2011, 5:22 PM Reply   
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
Andy there is lots of AR guys here check for past threads, I have a Question to Add to your Thread. What about USED gun's. Is there a Market for USED AR's and where would one find one? What would a good used one sell for?
Check out
Old     (colorider)      Join Date: Jun 2001       09-12-2011, 9:15 PM Reply   
Thanks for the info Evan.
I have a local shop that I visited today and got all kinds of great info and a shopping list. They have some nice stuff available and I will probably go through them for my first one. I will probably end up paying a little more, but they can help me out with it. Not going to be hard, but I like buying local when I can. Of course that might change when I start pricing some stuff out online. Hoever the quality of the local shop is much better then the online cheaper stuff such as the Del-Ton branded uppers and lowers and even the complete kits. Im having fun investigating this project. !
Old     (snyderm)      Join Date: Aug 2010       09-22-2011, 9:33 AM Reply   
Lower receivers: ( any Mil-Spec will do. )
Favorites are: Bushmaster, Olympic arms, Stag, DPMS, Essential Arms, Spikes Tactical, Rock River,

Parts Kits : ( I would suggest getting the barrels chromed lined. And get 5.56mm. )


Parts and accessories: ( magazines )
Old     (colorider)      Join Date: Jun 2001       09-22-2011, 12:05 PM Reply   
My build is done and I'm up shooting ! Here is what I did.
Way over my initial budget, but the more I learned the more I wanted to spend on it.

Lewis machine tool upper. 1/7 twist chrome lined 16 inch in carbine length NATO and 223 chambered
Lewis machine tool enhanced bolt carrier group.
Spikes lower
Rock river 2 stage championship match trigger
All lower hardwware is brownells.
Heavy buffer
Buffer spring is the flat style wire. Can't remember the name
Magpul pistol grip (adjustable and storage in it )
Magpul stock
Magpul mbus rear sight
3 30 round magpul pmags with windows.

This thing is beyond a kick in the ass ! shooting 62 grain ammo and can't believe how accurate it is.
Old     (bear)      Join Date: Apr 2005       09-23-2011, 9:43 AM Reply   
very fast shipping and great company to work with!

great video on how to build the lower.
Old    SamIngram            09-23-2011, 10:00 AM Reply   
My new Daniel Defense should be there when I get home today! BTW, Classic Arms just got a new shipment of M855, my favorite surplus ammo.
Old     (brett33)      Join Date: Apr 2011       09-23-2011, 11:11 AM Reply   
post some pics Andy!
Old     (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       09-23-2011, 12:54 PM Reply   
So as a guy who doesn't know jack about guns (but interested) why an AR? What is it about an AR that you guys enjoy owning over other gun models? I'm just curious why a whole site is dedicated to the AR15 and how it differs from other rifles.
Old     (westsiderippa)      Join Date: Dec 2006       09-23-2011, 11:06 PM Reply   
eubankso1, the reasons will very from person to person but you will find some similar reasoning too. i can tell you why i am such an AR fan.

1. your possibilities are endless when building around the AR platform. meaning i can have 1 to ??? different styles all built off 1 single lower unit.

think of an AR platform based rifle as transformer, by simply changing an upper i can have a long range rifle with a heavy barrel or slap on an m4 16" and change out my stock and i have a fun cqb rifle. or if im feeling cheap i can slap on my dedicated 22lr upper and plink away for pennies.

the possibilities are endless. you can create the rifle of your choice to suit your needs and if those needs change, well then all you do is recreate.........

2. they are so simple!!

cleaning and maintaining an AR is a piece of cake.
very simple to trouble shoot an issue.
parts are readily available in shops and or online.


just like it says, for me i love shooting my AR's see attached pic bellow for ear to ear smile.

thats just a few reasons i love my AR's but there are many more.
Attached Images
Old     (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       09-24-2011, 7:29 AM Reply   
Bryan - Thanks for your response. Good stuff...looks fun! I have a Remington 870 to mess around shooting skeet and the occasional dove but that's about the extent of my gun knowledge. I would love to learn more and possibly build some type of rifle for messing around at the range and plinking in the country. To me that seems more fun than a handgun at the range...if I had to choose one.

Thanks for the info. I'm sure I'll have tons more questions if I find some money to build one!

So one question would be what type of AR rounds are most common? You can make a 5.56 or 7.62 version right? Wouldn't the 5.56 be much cheaper to shoot? Sorry for the newbie questions. I would just be looking for something to plink around that I can put rounds through for fairly cheap.
Old     (colorider)      Join Date: Jun 2001       09-24-2011, 10:37 AM Reply   
Everyrhing Eubanks said is why I did it. However, it's a lot more fun to build a d shoot when you don't have all the idiotic California laws to work around !!! Here in Colorado we pretty
Much have no rules on the AR except no full auto. Duh. Can't believe some of the Cali laws regarding "assault rifles". Pretty lame.
Old     (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       09-24-2011, 6:22 PM Reply   
So do you guys know what the Texas laws are for the AR?
Old     (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       09-25-2011, 4:08 PM Reply   
AR is the most common choice for many reasons. A big reason is that since its is what the military uses, it is the most common and most numerous, so parts will always be available, and priced competitively.

As mentioned above, part are interchangable for different configs.

5.56 is cheaper and easier on the shoulder, but IMO 7.62 is more versitile.

my next build will be an AR in 300BLK. Best of both worlds!!
Old     (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       09-25-2011, 4:11 PM Reply   
No limits in TX on ARs. You can even have full auto if you want. Only cost you a $200 tax stamp and an M16 lower which are only $10k-$15k.
Old     (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       09-25-2011, 7:16 PM Reply   
Can you buy that m16 lower off of anyone off the street or does it have to be through a specially liscensed shop?

My dad has one that just sits in his gun safe. 15k is sounding pretty tempting.
Old     (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       09-26-2011, 5:10 AM Reply   
You can buy from anyone, but you have to use a class 3 dealer to perform the transaction since it is a NFA restricted item and requires a tax stamp. New owner will have to buy a $200 tax stamp from the BATFE for that particular serial number. The current backlog on stamps is about 5 months. So, you find a guy who wants to buy it and go to your class 3 dealer. The guy pays you the $15k and you give the gun to dealer and walk away with your cash. The buyer then pays the dealer his transfer fee ($50-$100) then writes a check to the BATFE for $200 and fills out his form 4 and has the local judge or sherriff sign off (if he creates a trust or LLC, he doesnt need LEO sig). Then he waits his 5 months for his stamp and as soon as it arrives he can go back to the dealer and take possession.

This process is the same for any NFA restricted item be it silencers, SBR, SBS, machine guns, any other destructive device regulated by the NFA.

The reason the full autos are so pricy is that the NFA prohibits the ownership of full auto guns but grandfathers in all full autos made before 1986. So, that makes a finite amount of full autos in the world eligible for civilian ownership. For an AR the basic lower has not changed since the 60's so if you can get an old m16 lower, you can build a new modern AR around it. In an AR, the lower is what is considered the "gun" as it has the controlling parts and has the serial number on it. Like any other finite numbered item, they only go up in value as the years pass. In another 15-20 years if the laws stay the same they could be worth considerably more.
Old     (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       09-26-2011, 7:00 AM Reply   
Yikes! $15K?

JG - So what would you recommend for a first time build for somebody looking to get into AR's? As I mentioned, my main goals would be able to shoot cheaper ammo and just have fun building and plinking.
Old     (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       09-26-2011, 7:55 AM Reply   
Well, for what you are trying to do, you can go many different directions. Since you arent looking for hunting type stopping power, 7.62 is out as it is $0.43 a round for milsurp and $1.00+ a round for match grade.

Your standard 5.56 is a good choice for high velocity but somwhat lower cost. If you are just plinking, .22lr is ideal as you can get 500rds for $12-$15.

5.56 is the standard, so you have tons of options and levels of quality and a bazillion people out there that can help answer questions. Some set a price and then shop to meet their budget, but those that do genreally blow their budget easily. You end up nickel and diming your because the better parts make a significant difference. I would do some reading, derrive an expectation you want to meet and budget accordingly. You will save money in the long run and have a better rifle from the get go.

If .22lr interests you, you have another choice to make. Do you build a 5.56 gun and buy a .22lr conversion kit to put on it, or do you buy a dedicated .22lr AR? The dedicated .22lr guns shoot great and very reliable, but they are proriatary parts that arent interchangable with other ARs. They are much less expensive though. A 5.56 gun with a conversion kit works pretty well also you just have a greater expense on both the base gun and then the kit.

I currently use 7.62 for shooting and .22lr for plinking.
Old     (snyder)      Join Date: Feb 2006       09-26-2011, 7:56 AM Reply   
Two .223 models each under $700 complete. I think it's hard to pull together a complete build that cheap. The downside is if you want to mod it out, you'll end up paying more than if you were to build one how you want from the get-go, but you'll have spare parts, or starter parts for a 2nd one. Also, you can get bolt carrier group inserts that'll convert the .223 to .22lr for <$200 and then you can shoot either from the same gun.
Attached Images
Old     (brett33)      Join Date: Apr 2011       09-26-2011, 8:25 AM Reply   
My suppressed AR15 and Armalite Super SASS .308

once you get into AR's its a full on addiction.. that's worth every penny.
Old     (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       09-26-2011, 8:35 AM Reply   
So I've been looking at the .22lr's. That caliber seems to be available in so many types of rifles. What would you guys recommend? Is there one that follows the "buildability" and funcitonality of the AR? This looks similar.
Old     (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       09-26-2011, 10:19 AM Reply   
Right on Andy... You got your rifle together quickly.

I love my AR and have another lower on it's way to build a longer range set-up.

AR's are cool for all the reasons mentioned. Easy and fairly cheap to shoot, make a big bang, and accurate right out of the box. Plus there's little recoil.

The versatility is great, too. I can go from iron sights to scope in seconds and it totally changes the shooting experience.

7.62 is a more versatile round if you wanted to use it for personal defense or hunting. One of my friends hunts hogs with his.

IMO the .22 is a waste of time with a AR platform. If you buy a conversion kit, great, but building a dedicated upper is a way to spend a lot of money to blow through .22 rounds. Just get a plinker for that. You can get a semi auto Ruger 10-22 for $200 and get the same cheap thrills.

Now... Just for something to think about... If you're looking for something to just have fun with you should look at AK's, too. Maybe not as modular as the AR, but after dialing my AK, it's my prefered shooter. The AK is cheap ($500 ish) and bomb proof. The best thing I did to mine was add a butt stock extension/buffer. The stock is too short for most real sized people. Add a cheap red dot optic, and a Tapco G2 trigger and blast away. IMO the best bang for the buck you can get. You can buy russian surplus ammo for $.25 a round and it'll eat it like candy.

Anyway... either way you go, you can't miss. If you like 7.62 you can always build two uppers for a AR, that's the bonus of that platform. Build a .223/5.56 and a 7.62. Why not.

Plus, they just flat out look cool. Who doesn't like that?
Old     (mendo247)      Join Date: Mar 2005       10-06-2011, 9:42 PM Reply   
Eubanks i'd highly recomend the Smith and Wesson M&P 15-22. I've had mine for awhile now and its probably my fav gun. I bought mine at Big5. If you pay attention to their online coupons they usually have a 25% off coupon but its no good on guns and ammo. Once every couple months it good on everything. The gun was onsale plus my coupon I eneded up picking it up for about $299! Crazy deal I couldnt pass up. Its an absolute blast to shoot and really accurate. I bought a fake aimpoint for it and its just a kick in the pants. Its the gun most of my friends grab when we hit the range. Its exactly like my AR but costs pennies to shoot. I hardly ever shoot my 10/22 since I got it.
Old     (norcalrider)      Join Date: Jun 2002       10-10-2011, 11:26 AM Reply   
On a side note, Governor Brown signed into law the long gun registry. So buy up before that goes into effect Jan 1.


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