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Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-20-2011, 8:43 AM Reply   
WOW: what could have happend? The coverage I have seen has been spotty. I saw a Photo where the Trim tab on the Elevator was missing. Could this be the thing that led to the plane to spin out of control.

One thing is FOR SURE. when you are going that FAST (500 Mph) that LOW (300 to 500 feet) you would only have a second to correct what ever went wrong. The video that show the Plane hitting the ground is amazing that the plane turn's to what looks like DUST.

We were supposed to go to the Air Races. I have never been and would love to see it in person I hope the FAA and or Big Brother dosen't step in and try and stop and or take over the event.
Old    Shawn (helinut)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-20-2011, 9:42 AM Reply   
They don't know for sure yet, but it sounds like the elevator boost tab departed the plane. This cause the plane to pull up abruptly, possibly causing the pilot to pass out from the g forces. Then it was just up and over until it hit the ground. In some of the pictures you can't see the pilot at all, possibly meaning he is passed out.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       09-20-2011, 10:17 AM Reply   
An article I read said the plane was significantly modified (10' off the wingspan for one), and was already known to be likely to be dangerous. The pilot was said to have expressed the uncertainty of it's airworthiness to perform such dangerous maneuvers.
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-20-2011, 10:26 AM Reply   
The plane started off life as a P51 but was all tricked out ect as is most of the planes that race in that class. Yes I can see if anything like a trim tab broke off going that fast so low to the ground it would be Very hard to recover. As far as not seeing the Pilot. The cockpit on this plane had a very small canopy. Not a large one like on a stock P 51 it was a very small bubble. At 500 mph It would be very hard to see the pilot even in the best conditions but at this point anything is possable
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-20-2011, 11:29 AM Reply   
this video around the 50 second mark show's the plane Pull straight up and then roll over Inverted and then rolls over and straight into the ground.
WOW
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3U_Jy...eature=related
That would make sense, If the trim tab broke off it could cause the plane to pull straight up as it did and the Pilot could G out and loose control of the plane
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-20-2011, 11:42 AM Reply   
This is another video of it SLAMMING straight into the ground. This video is Very powerful and gave me chill's. Caution!
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/...iref=allsearch
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       09-20-2011, 3:47 PM Reply   
loads of crazy pics here:

http://www.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gal...sectionstories

Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-20-2011, 5:23 PM Reply   
This is a pic of the Elevator with the Trim tab missing (the section of the rear elevator). This missing or gone could have cause the plane to swoop up and out of control. Amazing pictures
Attached Images
 
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-20-2011, 5:25 PM Reply   
from this pic above it looks like the elevator is in the up position Like he is pulling back on the stick.
Old    Matt (pierce_bronkite)      Join Date: Jul 2003       09-21-2011, 7:56 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
This is another video of it SLAMMING straight into the ground. This video is Very powerful and gave me chill's. Caution!
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/...iref=allsearch
Whoa.
Old    Adam Curtis (acurtis_ttu)      Join Date: May 2004       09-21-2011, 8:10 AM Reply   
Just curious...does the FAA impose any physcial requirements on pilots in these races? the pilot was 74.
Old    McGavin (Shooter)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-21-2011, 8:33 AM Reply   
All pilots are required to pass a medical exam every year for airline pilots, two years for commercial pilots and 3+ years for recreational pilots. I'm not sure which category these race pilots fall into (my guess is every 2 years?). There has been some speculation that the pilot had suffered from a medical problem and that is why he wasn't seen at the control prior to impact.
Old    Scott R (ScottR)      Join Date: Aug 2011       09-21-2011, 8:39 AM Reply   
Did it kill anyone on the ground?
Old    Nauti 210 (brett33)      Join Date: Apr 2011       09-21-2011, 8:44 AM Reply   
yeah i read it killed 8 spectators and the pilot on CNN

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-09-17/u...crash?_s=PM:US
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       09-21-2011, 8:49 AM Reply   
10 dead last I saw.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       09-21-2011, 9:18 AM Reply   
10 + pilot = current total
Old    RileyBangerter (steezyshots)      Join Date: Feb 2008       09-21-2011, 9:34 AM Reply   
One of my clients was at the show, he was seated 50 feet behind the impact, and he said that you could tell something was wrong, he looked up he said to his wife, "this is gonna hurt" and just as he finished saying that the plane hit, luckily for him and his wife the debris went the opposite way. Such a bummer for those that weren't as lucky.
Old    Scott R (ScottR)      Join Date: Aug 2011       09-21-2011, 10:09 AM Reply   
Wow, so sad...
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-22-2011, 7:54 AM Reply   
There is a good Artical in Air & Space about theGhost
http://www.airspacemag.com/flight-to...01109-airspace

There is some good comments about bout the story below
Attached Images
 
Old    Evan (waajusshappened)      Join Date: Oct 2008       09-22-2011, 5:52 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shooter View Post
All pilots are required to pass a medical exam every year for airline pilots, two years for commercial pilots and 3+ years for recreational pilots. I'm not sure which category these race pilots fall into (my guess is every 2 years?). There has been some speculation that the pilot had suffered from a medical problem and that is why he wasn't seen at the control prior to impact.
Doesn't do much good though. They don't do stress tessting or treadmill testing to rule our cardiac dysfunction or carotid doppler ultrasounds to determine plaque development and reduction in blood flow to the brain...which at the pilots spry old age would indicate if he was truly physically able to withstand the G's. Just sayin because I know. Seen toooooooooooo many pilots who were one hamburger away form a heart attack pass their physicals year after year.
Old    Adam Curtis (acurtis_ttu)      Join Date: May 2004       09-23-2011, 6:29 AM Reply   
I'm still kinda shocked that someone at this age is allowed to race in these events. Humans aren't exactly at their peak performance at age 74. Don't they force commerical pilots to retire at 60...and that's like drivin miss daisy compared to racing at 300 feet off the ground at 500 mph.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       09-23-2011, 8:38 AM Reply   
Everyone is different. There are plenty of 70+ people that are physically fit and have sharp minds and reflexes still. It's cheap shot to blame the guy for his age.
Old    Adam Curtis (acurtis_ttu)      Join Date: May 2004       09-23-2011, 10:03 AM Reply   
End of the day..horrible accident and age probably isn't a factor.
Cheap shot?..the guy is 74...if he thinks he's young and in peak physical/mental condition he's dreaming. I dont' care how sharp you think you are...your not in the same calibur anymore as someone half your age ( assuming both are fit enough to race planes)

Maybe our military should start hunting out these 70+ year old guys to fly combat missions too?

I get , that somewhere in the world are some people who defy logic and are still "sharp" at that age, but its far from the norm.

Guys like this should take a backseat to flying in the race, seems like their experience would be much more valuable behind the scenes anyways.
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       09-23-2011, 11:52 AM Reply   
I hope you read your post if you make it to 74 and are still active.

I have known some guys in their 70's/80's whom I would trust WAY more with my life than a lot of people I've known in their 30's.
Old    Chris (69flyguy)      Join Date: Jan 2004       09-26-2011, 12:34 PM Reply   
Not good...very bad...very sad.
Good thing my friend's dad stopped racing up there when he did.
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       10-04-2011, 3:13 PM Reply   
Got this Email from a friend

Good News for the future of air racing.

Our new crew member, Matt Jackson, is not only a race pilot, aircraft business owner and aircraft owner (he also takes care of Tom Cruises P-51) but he is also the VP of the Unlimited Racing Class and head of the Safety Committee.

We had a long talk about the Reno crash on the way to Mojave today.

Matt believes the cause of the crash was due to The Galloping Ghost having a CG too close to the aft limit which resulted in pitch instability. There are instructions on the P-51 regarding no combat missions with the aft fuel tank full resulting in an aft CG problem. Instructions specify to empty the aft fuel tank first in flight.

During qualifying Matt watched Galloping Ghost from inside the cockpit of Furias and could not believe how much trouble Leeward was having in keeping the Ghost in a stable pattern around the course.

Since Leeward lives in Florida and the Galloping Ghost was modified for racing in Calif., when Leeward picked up the Ghost for the Reno races at the last minute, a complete flight test program had not been done based on available information.

There is a video of the entire last lap of the Ghost before the crash which Matt showed me. As Leeward was coming around pylon #8 at about 480 mph after passing Rare Bear, he hit turbulence which pitched his left wing down, Leeward corrected with hard right rudder and aileron. Just as the aircraft was straightening out, he hit a second mountain of turbulence which caused the tail to 'dig in' resulting in a 10+ G climb rendering Leeward unconscious instantly and resulted in the tail wheel falling out. (broken tail wheel support structure was found on the course). As the Ghost shot upward the LH aileron trim tab broke loose. This can be heard on the tape, so the trim tab did not cause the accident.

Since the Ghost was racing at 480 mph with full right rudder and the stick full right, this is where everything stayed when Leeward blacked out. Cockpit camera film that was salvaged from the wreck shows Leeward slumped over to the right in the cockpit. As a result, the Ghost climbed up and to the right, rolled over on her back and then headed for the box seats. Most in the box seats never saw it coming because it came in from behind them.
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       10-04-2011, 3:20 PM Reply   
New Footage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3gZp...eature=related
Old    rehabmoto.com (xmarksthespot)      Join Date: Oct 2006       10-04-2011, 3:21 PM Reply   
Co worker just got back to work this week from the crash, he broke his leg in three spots from debris when the plane crashed about25' from him....when he woke up next to him was a severed arm, we he got up it was even worse. Hes lucky to be alive. Its just one of those things that you never thinks gonna happen.

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